Preserved Topic: I need some serious Java advices

Hi,
I'm moving from Brazil to the USA, for two years, to study. I'm going to make some courses and Java will be the language of choice for some of the courses. The problem is that I know nothing about Java. Usually, I would go to the Internet and start looking for articles about Java to get to know it but since I believe some of you are experienced in Java, I want your advices.
1 - to install Java in my computer, do I have to buy the software or is it free (open source)?
2 - if I have to buy, what's the best package for Java programming?
3 - is Java a good language to learn these days (my other option would be learning C or C++ instead of Java, but I guess that C/C++ is too damn difficult for a newbie like me) ?
4 - I know Delphi, not too much, but a little; a previous knowledge of Delphi is going to help to learn Java?
Thanks for any enlightment.

I really know nothing about Java, but I do know a couple of answers to your questions.

You can download the Runtime environment for Java here.

You can get a run the apps from a DOS prompt in most cases. There are a few editors out there "WebSphere" is one that comes to mind. One that my fiancee's brother uses is called Slick Edit. He swears by it. I use it sometimes for HTML and stuff and it is a really cool program.

Later,
C:\


~Binary is best~

1 - its free. everything with java is free. java.sun.com as cprompt linked.
2 - you need both: the jre(java runtime environment) to run java programs (they are not exes, so the win runtime doesnt help) and the jdk(java development kit) to compile java programs. (maybe the jre comes with the jdk, but im not sure)
3 - hmmmm. i'd say its very good. but personally the .NET thing might be better if you are goin for win only.
and java is IMO more difficult than C.
4 - no. at least not as much as C would help you.


java is kinda confusing for starters. but after some time... once you get the key out... its nicely and handy to program. i like it very much, cause you have a lot of libs and stuff that come with the package so you dont have to do everything on your own like in C. for example the java.net.* library contains a full network implementation of many protocols.

I downloaded the Java SDK only (not the JRE) and I have no problem compiling and running java programs, so I guess you don't need the JRE, but there might be something in it that you need for more advanced programming. I only started to play with it yesterday so I'm not sure yet.

From what I have heard it is as easy/hard to learn Java as there is to learn C++. And when you have learned one of the the step to the other one is pretty easy since they are very similair.



_________________________
Anyone who has lost track of time when using a computer knows the propensity to dream, the urge to make dreams come true and the tendency to miss lunch.
- copied from the wall of cell 408 -

Ah yes, your in luck my friend this just so happens to be my area of experties....
(unlike spelling)

If you have any problems at all with java during your course visit

• http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/
  
  [list]
• This will give you the basics on installing programming etc...

* http://developer.java.sun.com/developer/

• Get a password the forms are very helpful

[/list]

Maskkkk




- Face the Present

[This message has been edited by Maskkkk (edited 08-08-2002).]

[This message has been edited by Maskkkk (edited 08-08-2002).]

viol: Although InI is away for a week ro so you can have a look through the start of his mammoth Java graphics tutorial via here:
www.gurusnetwork.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=12;t=000121

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

Uhmmm, thanks for the tips and advices. I'm starting to get worried because I didn't know that Java is as "easy" or as difficult as C++. I fear C++. I was always told that C/C++ are languages difficult to learn and that's why, when I wanted to choose a programming language to learn, I chose Delphi.
But I have no choice. Due to some personal happenings, I had to make a quick decision about what I was going to do in the USA and, since I always liked programming, computers, Internet and related matters (as a hobby, mostly), I decided to do this computer science courses and the options are only C/C++ or Java.
Does anyone of you know about the CAS, or Certificate in Applied Sciences that is available at the Harvard Extension School, in Boston? I know Harvard is not well known for its Computer Science courses but mostly for the Law School, but, for me, choosing Harvard (and not M.I.T., for instance), was a better deal, since my wife is studying in Harvard already. The course I'm going to make is this one, CAS, concentration Information Systems and Electronic Commerce. Anyone has any opinion about it?
Since I'm going to study Java, it seems that I'll be posting a lot of messages here in the near future. I hope you don't mind

Java and C/C++ are very closely related as far as syntax goes. Therefore, you should have very little problem going from one to the other.

As for difficulty learning, C++ isn't really that hard. The key to any programming language is understanding how it works. After that, everything else is semantics.

The best thing is to have someone to go to if you have problems. Usually, your professors shouldn't mind discussing issues with you, so good luck.

Also, if you take the C/C++ route, you can always email me if you need any help: nospam@bluesky.as

quote:

---

java is kinda confusing for starters. -- GRUMBLE

---

Not entirely... Java was the first language I learned (not counting HTML several years back), and I never had a problem with it. If you are comfortable with mathematical concepts, and/or already are comfortable with another language, it shouldn't be real difficult.
As for a package to use to program in, I use Visual Studio Pro 6. Real easy to learn with it. I've tried a few other programs but this is the only one I've seen that points out errors (syntax and such) without having to compile it. If the campus bookstore/computer store has it, I'd recommend it. Off campus though, it's quite expensive. Got mine at the bookstore for $30(US), where the list price for it was somewhere between $70 and $90. However, it includes Visual Basic, Visual C++, Visual FoxPro, Visual Interdev, Visual J++ (the Java part you would use), and two disks with the MSDN Library. It's great for starting out, but once you start programming swing/GUI's it slows down a bit. Once we got that far, our prof recommended we download j2se from java.sun.com (link in above post). But if you want to continue using Visual Studio, you can download the package swingall.jar and add it to the list of packages to use.

Hope this helps a bit.


________________________________________________________________
-- Jack of all trades, master of that which has my attention at
the moment.

Home Sweet Home

AFAIK Visual J++ and Java are really two different entities. J++ really has never taken off. This info is coming from my fiancee's brother who is a Java programmer.

Later,
C:\


~Binary is best~

However, you can still use MS Visual J++ to write Java programs in. I have been for a year now... unless this is another case of "my computer doesn't know what it's not supposed to be able to do," which wouldn't really suprise me

Fukutoku,
java was not the first for me. i did pascal, delphi and c++ before.
and, then i started java.
and for one simple procedure call you have to write something like:

public static void main implements blablabla references tralalala () {

and all that was kinda confusing for me, cause with pascal i only had to write
procedure xyz

This is bad, bad bad...

Tô ferrado...

quote:

---

and for one simple procedure call you have to write something like:
public static void main implements blablabla references tralalala ()

---

OK, if the prof just threw a complete method call at you like that, I can see how it might be confusing at first... However, I don't know many who do that without giving a little warning about what each term means...
i.e.
public = method/class/variable can be accessed from another class or program directly (alternate options include: private, protected, and no modifier)
static = the method/variable can be called without using an object (optional)
void = the method will not return any value (if it returns a value, the values type goes here)
main = the main method which is the "entrance" of all Java programs (for other methods, just substitute in the method name)
implements and extends are nothing to worry about for the first couple/few months (used when defining classes and deal with inheritance)

But references has me confused, lol I don't remember that one

But don't worry viol, if you get a prof that worth his salt it's not as bad as everyone says... My prof was real bad and I still picked it up real quick... But then maybe I'm not normal

<edit>clumsy fingers</edit>

[This message has been edited by Lord_Fukutoku (edited 08-10-2002).]

quote:

---

public = method/class/variable can be accessed from another class or program directly (alternate options include: private, protected, and no modifier)
implements and extends are nothing to worry about for the first couple/few months (used when defining classes and deal with inheritance)

---

Another modifier is package, which is what "no modifier" translates to. It allows all classes in the same package as that class access whatever data has package access. So a member variable with package access can be accessed by a class in the same package.

implements and extends are something to worry about, if you ask me. Java is based on data (objects), not functions (methods). So inheritance, and implementable classes are a huge part of it.

viol: Java, or C++ for that matter, aren't that hard to learn. Take the time to learn one, and the other comes almost naturally. When I started learning Java (after C++), it was pretty simple. The hardest part for me was figuring out how the classpath and packages work.

It's not difficult, but it does take time. It's well worth it though, imo

yea, the few times I've used the package modifier, I just leave it off... Saves me from typing anything extra. However, if you get into doing some more complex programs, it would be wise to put it in to help someone who wasn't looking at it get coded... Does that even make sense?

quote:

---

implements and extends are something to worry about, if you ask me. Java is based on data (objects), not functions (methods). So inheritance, and implementable classes are a huge part of it.

---

Yes, they are a big part of it. However, if you read my post a bit closer, you'll it says "during the first couple/few months." Meaning, you'll have to know it by at least the 2nd semester. If the prof starts teaching inheritance in the first month, I'd start to question what kind of "introductory" class it really is... Assuming viol will start in an some sort of introductory comp sci/programming/java class. (Heh, a "java class," get it? ... nevermind...)

<edit>clumsy fingers again...</edit>

[This message has been edited by Lord_Fukutoku (edited 08-10-2002).]

Reading the description of the concepts of public, private, protected, void, class and inheritance, I guess that my limited Delphi knowledge can help

Yes, it's an introductory course. The first term about Java has no prerequisite. The introductory courses takes two terms, Java I and Java II
http://www.extension.harvard.edu/2002-03/courses/csci.jsp#e-50a http://www.extension.harvard.edu/2002-03/courses/csci.jsp#e-50b

These are two out of the eight ones I must do. The others are Communication Protocols and Internet Architectures, Introduction to Database Systems and Client/Server Computing (uses Java), Fundamentals of Website Development, Web Development Using XML, Information Systems Management and the eighth is not decided yet.
I'll have to learn UNIX also, something I know nothing about, just like Java.

fukutoku, thanks for the explanaition. but meanwhile i know it all myself.
i developed some heavy apps already with java (including a http server and a video processor (alpha-blending images))

i was referring to the time when i was starting of with java... then i couldnt really think of what all those calls mean.

Java is easy, if you approach it the correct way. This means you don't just run into it and start hacking away, you need to learn about the language a little first you could run in and hack away but you would do better to learn the correct way. I reccomend getting a book, reading through it, then going back through and doing the expamples, reading the code and understanding the code. the Core Java series might do you well.

Bruse Eckle's "Thinking in Java" is a great free reference.

Next get the "Art of Computer Programming" books would help you out with core computing concepts.

GRUMBLE - yea I kinda figured you knew what those were, I was just trying to ease viol's nausea a bit from when he read your post, lmao

viol - And looking through the syllabus (last years) at the site you posted, that's the same book I used. "Java - An intro to comp sci and programming" by Savitch. For the most part, it's real slow, but good if you're just learning the language...

All righty, any Beatles fans here would probably like to read the syllabus, starting on page 22: http://www.extension.harvard.edu/2001-02/syllabi/10701/cscie50a.pdf Even if you aren't a Beatles fan, it's still pretty funny

Fuku - thanks for the tip about the syllabi.
To be honest with you, although I have met the English requirements to take the courses, I didn't know the meaning of Syllabi. In my last days I was so worried about how to decide the courses I should make (and reading the small descriptions of the available courses) that I didn't notice the Syllabus link (well, if I knew the meaning of the word I should have had a better chance to notice it).
Really thanks.

viol - Very welcome, glad I could help. Also, being very familiar with that book (as I still use it as a reference) I might be able to help a bit later on if you need. My e-mail should be in my profile (although it seems to change every few months).
Anyways, good luck with the class. You'll find you can do some fun stuff in Java later on