Preserved Topic: calling all cash challenged photographers

I've recently enrolled in an Intro Photography course.
We are required to have a 35mm camera, provide our own paper and film.

Paper requirements:
8"x10" RC polycontrast/multigrade Glossy -- 100 sheet box

Film Requirements:
b/w Kodak Tri-X or Ilford HP-5

For the paper, prof recommends strongly (not quite requires, but close) Ilford or Kodak.
For film, prof requires one of the above mentioned two brands/models.

Now, I don't want to go the 'cheap' route, just the inexpensive route.

Does anybody know if there are any online dealers of this sort of stuff that are likely to beat my local photo dealers in price?
Where do you get your supplies?

thanks

i think i've taken an intro photo class or ten so let's see what i can offer from experience.

what i do for supplies is every year i'll make two or three big orders with bhphotovideo.com to stockpile film and paper. i started first shooting with kodak tri-x + t-max, then printed on kodak fiber glossy paper. since then i've switched to ilford deltra pro (i prefer this to the hp-5 and it's barely more expensive per roll) and i will only print on ilford's b/w paper.

i don't think there's really a cheap way to go with this stuff, though someone correct me if i'm wrong. i mean i've never run across cheap supplies of paper and film that were of decent quality. the market seems pretty stable with all the competitors offering the same sort of product for the same price. what that means is it's up to you to shoot with different types of film from different manufacturers and find the one that works the best for you. i don't have a technical explanation for finding "the right one," it's more like one day you notice all of your favorite stuff shows up when film x meets paper y.

haha after all that bullshit i just remembered a few 'cheap' routes. import kodak film kicks ass. it can be up to half the price of kodak's same type of film made in country. if you go to bhphotovideo (who i highly recommend after buying an expensive camera, digital camcorder, and too many supplies to count from them over the course of four years) they'll have explanations of the three different types of film available (us, grey, import) and explanation to their differences. when i shot kodak i'd always get the cheapest type with fine results. unfortunately ilford doesn't have this option because the film is made in the united kingdom. sometimes you can buy packs of 10 or 20 rolls of film at a time and save some dough, this is a good option. i would not recommend bulk film because it's sketchy and loading film in handbags only helps get tons of dust on the film before using it.
uhm, what was the question again?

Mikeys right-

B&H Photo

The best source overall. They may be a little more(very little, they are very competative) expensive then the bottom of the rung photo stores but they are reliable and wont screw you over(a reality in film and equipment suppliers, be careful who you give your credit card to). I've bought everything from them from high-end lenses to film.

Pitman Photo Supply

My second choice if I cant find what I need at B&H.

If you want to save more money I suggest you buy your film in a bulk roll and load the cannisters yourself (I've been shooting for a long time, never had trouble with it -put it in a ziploc). You pay a lot for individually rolled film. You'll need a Bulk(film) Loader and cannisters but these are reusable. They have the additional advantage of being easier to open in the darkroom.

A whole bulk kit will cost you less than a brick (20 rolls of film).

If your serious about your photography don't buy grey market film. If you dont care so much you can save some money here also. Grey Market film is not intended for the US market and is availble from most discount film stores.

If these are still too steep pick-up a copy of Shutterbug there are tons of discount places listed in there, remember what I said above.

Films a personal thing, Tri-x and HP-5 are essentially the same thing. I wont touch T-Max (the blacks are weak and the contrast is flat overall). The paper your teacher recommended is fine, not the greatest, but you'll be using alot of it just learning.

By the way, all photographers are cash challenged, unless your an indepentently wealthy hobbyist. This craps way too expensive.

-tiki, cell 478



[This message has been edited by tikigod (edited 08-24-2002).]

tiki: i was wondering what sort of fiber-based b/w paper you might recommend. haven't experimented with my paper choice nearly as much as i have film and i'm eager to try something new.

also, what sort of bad things have you heard about import/grey film (whose definition i totally botched in my above post, see: bh description)? checking out threads on the subject at photo.net (a good resource, mobs) revealed no shortcomings.
okay last one... (sorry to hijack the thread) assuming you shoot color, what film (and paper if you print) do you tend to use? i've been messing around with fuji superia and it's not nearly as fun as the reala i used earlier...

Mikey-

Paper:

The best paper you can use (IMO) is Zone VI Brilliant Bromide. Its not varible contrast (its graded), but well, its beautiful. Grade #3 is available at Calumet. Other grades should be availble directly from Zone VI( I usually only buy these papers for shows- so I havn't used it in a while. They get very expensive).

Here is the address and phone: ZONE VI Studios, Inc., Newfane, Vermont 05345, 802-257-5161

Zone VI also makes a VC which is good but not as nice as above. Its also available at Calumet.

My favorite VCs are made by Forte. After you use their warmtone or coldtone papers you'll never go back to Polycontrast. Its hard to explain, you just have to see the results. You'll know what i mean after you try them.

Import/Grey Film:

I didnt have to hear bad things, I got to experience it first hand. I shot a KSU fotball game with 6 rolls of bad film. Fortunatly the film I took to the game had come two seperate shipments, so I still had 4 left. The bad rolls came the newest shipment(Newspaper was cutting costs). This, however, does not mean dont use "grey" film. I was photojournalist for a decent sized paper. So i was pushing a lot of film through my cameras per day, It was going to happen eventually. If you dont shoot alot, you may never have a bad experience at all.

Consistency is the main problem. What B&H is saying is "We keep the film, normal and grey, stored at industry standards" what they're not saying about the grey is "we cant say the same thing about everybody else in the process." Your film could have been sitting on the dock in Korea in 95-degree heat for all you know. But if your only shooting every now then. Its not a big deal.

Color film:

I moved to shooting mostly color lately, thats why I havent been using B&W papers as much. I shoot mostly chromes (slides), so Ill talk about these also. I love Kodachrome 64, its my film of choice. After that I like all of the Fuji Provia line. I hate velvia, I think it looks fake. As for print- Reala and Superia I use differently. Reala's nice for portraits. Superia ( I just know it by numbers, the "superia" names still kinda new) is the best workhorse film around, beats the kodak stuff hands down.

I dont print color myself, to much of a pain. Better to find a good lab and have some who does it for a living make your prints, including those from slide.

Whew! this is a little long but I kind of wanted to explain my reasoning to each of your questions. I want to say all of this is subjective and personal taste- thats part of the art. There are National Gegraphic photographers who love velvia's enhanced color, and I hate it. It all depends on what your going for.



-tiki, cell 478

P.S. Morbrul-I do not recommend Calumet(above) for your question. They are very expensive.



[This message has been edited by tikigod (edited 08-24-2002).]

Wow... I like taking pictures, and I have often considered taking up photography as a hobby. Now, however, I am just overwhelmed. Thank you for crushing my dream ( ).




Cell 270

Thank you.
I checked B&H for paper. Seems they sell 100 sheets for about $39. Add $11 shipping, and you're pretty close to the $52 the local stores charge. I'm not sure it's worth it.
Maybe on film...still need to check.
Thanks for your time, knowledge and experience.
mobrul

Just an update.
I went out and dropped a few $100 dollars on a used Nikon FM2(n), a 50mm lens, and some Ilford paper. They had some special student deal going at the local shop: 25 sheets of paper + 2 rolls HP5 film for $15. Good deal, if you ask me.
I'll be sure to post somewhere my favorite pictures from the semester. My prof said the first thing you can do on your way to shooting like a professional photograper is "don't show people the crap". Even professionals can shoot rolls and rolls of worthless film, but they only show their best 4 and look like geniouses. Good advice...so maybe you won't see much of my stuff
Thanks again for the advice.