Preserved Topic: Can we just do this real quick?

THEY'RE

Use this when you're abbreviating "they are." The first thing you should do when determining which "there" word to use is to ask yourself, "could this be replaced with the words 'they are'?" If so, use "they're." You know this is correct because the apostrophe is there to replace the "a" in "are". When you pronounce "they're", try to separate out the "they" from the "re" to remind yourself of this.

THEIR

The next thing you should ask is, "am I talking about something which belongs to someone?" If you're trying to express that something "belongs to them", say that it's "theirs".

THERE

Otherwise, use this one. Typically, it's used to indicate a location ("over there"), although it has a few other uses. Use this word only when you have checked the other two and found that both of them were wrong.

Thank you.

Glad to see I am not the only one who has a problem with this common English mistake.

Quick test:
________ coming to take me away, haha.
________black pills are stronger.
________ is no rhyme or reason for such insanity.



[This message has been edited by Ramasax (edited 11-20-2003).]

I cought myself so many times by typing "you" when I meant "your". I know what the difference between the two is, but I often make this mistake. Lazzy typing or something.

Sasha »

Thank you Slime.

Now ... on to its/it's

Oh, by the way, they're's a new strongbad email which is relevant =)

[This message has been edited by Slime (edited 11-21-2003).]

*snicker*

[This message has been edited by Petskull (edited 11-21-2003).]

Next you should make a post on the appropriate use of "that" and "which".



:::11oh1:::

Bob the Angry Flower has already covered it's vs. its.

Cell 1250 :: alanmacdougall.com :: Illustrator tips

Someone help me with in/on/at. Thats the most problematic trouble on engrish for me ;P

__________________________________


Alevice's Media Library

Is they're an engrish language? when most pepole use that is it there enunciation their poking fun at?

just cyoriose...

Is this thing on?

A Work In Progress

quote:

---

Someone help me with in/on/at. Thats the most problematic trouble on engrish for me ;P

---

In a box on the table at my house.

Boy I bet that helped out a lot! Also you forgot the apostrophe on "That's"

also, I can't let Ramasax's quick test go:

They're coming to take me away, haha.
Their black pills are stronger.
There is no rhyme or reason for such insanity.

<edit>screwed up the top section </edit>

Later,

C:\


~Binary is best~

[This message has been edited by CPrompt (edited 11-21-2003).]

As a former English major, I feel obliged to follow up on krets' suggestion, especially since a lot of people seem to confuse "that" and "which". They can be especially difficult for non-native English speakers (in Korean, for example, there is no clear-cut distinction between "that" and "which").

The difference, really, is in whether the clause is restrictive (key to the meaning of the sentence) or non-restrictive (not key to the meaning of the sentence). A restrictive clause has no comma and generally uses that, while a non-restrictive clause has a comma and generally uses which. Since this is a lot easier shown than explained, here is an example:

• Suho ate the donut that Emps had been saving for a rainy day.
• Suho ate the donut, which was covered with chocolate frosting.

In the first sentence, the fact that Emps had been saving the donut for a rainy day is key to the meaning of the sentence--it makes my eating of the donut that much more tragic (and possibly dangerous). In the second sentence, however, the fact that the donut was covered with chocolate frosting is merely additional information, and not vital to understanding the sentence.

You'll notice that, in my explanation above, I said "generally" twice. That's because the restrictiveness/non-restrictiveness of a clause is determined by the presence or lack of a comma, not by the use of "that" or "which". "That" and "which" are used because they are easier to distinguish than a comma when spoken. Technically, Slime's sentence up there is a restrictive clause, and means the same thing as "There's a new Strongbad email that is relevant." In the interest of making things less confusing to most native English speakers (who are used to seeing "which" with a comma and "that" without), though, I would go with the second version.


___________________________
Suho: www.liminality.org

That which donut that Suho stole from that they're Emps was a good thing because Emps didnt need all the calories that that donut had in it's ingredients. n' stuff.

=)

that was well said, Michael.

Now someone splain proper comma useage

Jason

quote:

---

• Suho ate the donut that Emps had been saving for a rainy day.
• Suho ate the donut, which was covered with chocolate frosting.

---

• Suho realised far too late where Emps had been hiding the donut all day.
• Suho realised far too late that there was no chocolate frosting.

___________________
Emps

The Emperor dot org

*sigh*

Well, at least we're having fun with grammar. And if all it takes is a little scatological humor to enjoy grammar, then I can deal with that.




___________________________
Suho: www.liminality.org

Lose vs Loose.

That is all.

[edit: removed bold so links are obvious]

[This message has been edited by Raptor (edited 11-21-2003).]

WRONG:
John was talking to David and I.

WRONG:
John was talking to David and myself.

RIGHT:
John was talking to David and me.

WHY:
Remove "David and" and you'll see.

I'll let someone else tackle "who" and "whom."

I thought I could leave it at one lesson, but anyone who knows me shouldn't be surprised by a second post ...

SINGULAR: emu
PLURAL: emus / NOT emu's
(The same with "shortened" forms of words like photo and with proper nouns like Volvo.)

SINGULAR: one (As in "I need the one on the top shelf.")
PLURAL: ones / NOT one's (As in "I like the ones with lubrication.")

SINGULAR: Kennedy
PLURAL: the Kennedys / NOT the Kennedy's / DEFINITELY NOT the Kennedies

Whom cares, Wes..?

*snicker*


Code - CGI - links - DHTML - Javascript - Perl - programming - Magic - http://www.twistedport.com
ICQ: 67751342

Wes:

quote:

---

SINGULAR: Kennedy
PLURAL: the Kennedys / NOT the Kennedy's / DEFINITELY NOT the Kennedies

---

The counter example:

SINGULAR: a Teletubby
PLURAL: the Teletubbies



Sorry

Mathieu "POÏ" HENRI

[This message has been edited by poi (edited 11-21-2003).]

True, but you're referring to an invented proper noun, not a family name. (Besides, I imagine "Teletubbies" came first as the name of the show and the singular followed.)

Incidentally, I wonder why that example came to you so readily ...


Ooh, that reminds me of another one:

WRONG: I wonder why that thing is blue?
RIGHT: I wonder why that thing is blue.

WRONG: Guess what color my thing is?
RIGHT: Guess what color my thing is.

quote:

---

RIGHT: Guess what color my thing is.

---

Do we really have to answer that?


___________________________
Suho: www.liminality.org

OK I have taken all that on board but what about calling women cute?

___________________
Emps

The Emperor dot org

To add to the "Lose vs Loose" ...

Choose vs Chose

Breath vs Breathe same link, just scroll down

I know, sometimes it is just an honest spelling mistake... but just in case it isn't!

we call it typos.......chubby fingers....typing faster then the brain.....my thought.. lickies mystic

http://www.geocities.com/mystic_colors32/MysticsNook2.html

quote:

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typing faster then the brain

---

I don't know if I'm wrong or not, but I'd have written "typing faster than the brain".

Wes: I'm totally twisted. Beside that, I must admit that when I "accidentally" zapped on the Teletubbies, I literally stared at the show and watched it at the 7th degree. I can't resist to their pretty faces

Mathieu "POÏ" HENRI

Yup, you're right: it should be "than"

Although after that comment about the Teletubbies, I think I'm going to have to up the voltage in your shock treatments anyway...


___________________________
Suho: www.liminality.org

Added to the :FAQ:

__________________________________________
"Art has to be forgotten. Beauty must be realized."
Piet Mondriaan

[This message has been edited by Rinswind 2th (edited 11-22-2003).]

quote:

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Emps: but what about calling women cute?

---

I think we covered that... you can do it, but you take your life in your hands depending on what woman you're talking to at the moment!

OK can some explain the difference between:

peasants and pedants?

___________________
Emps

The Emperor dot org

ok...

Peasant: A member of the class including small farmers, tenants and herd-tenders in feudal England, or an uncouth or ill-bred person (just like me).

Pedant: One who puts on an air of learning; one who makes a vain display of learning; a pretender to superior knowledge.

Emperor - they're the same thing, it's just that one is said by a man with a speech impediment.

And wow, what a grammatical nightmare this thread on proper grammar has turned into...

I have to say, I've always had trouble with the "that/which" bit.

Who and Whom

Who is the subject form and whom is the object form.
Basically, turn the sentence into a question and answer it. If you can answer it with 'him' or 'her', you should use 'whom'. If you would answer the question with 'he' or 'she', you should use 'who'.
Examples:

Who ate Emp's donut?
Obviously, one would answer 'he' ate Emp's donut. 'Who' is correct.

To whom did you give the crumbs when you were finished?
I gave the crumbs to 'him'. 'Whom' is correct.

Whoever still has a question about this can ask and I'll try to explain more clearly.

[This message has been edited by mobrul (edited 02-04-2004).]

DL -- from http://www.ku.edu/~edit/ap15.htm ...

quote:

---

Essential clauses, nonessential clauses: ... Essential clauses do not have commas and usually contain the word "that"; nonessential clauses are set off by commas and often contain the word "which."

Important: Essential and non-essential has nothing to do with the importance of the information contained in the words, but the importance of the words to understand the essence of the sentence.

For example: The house that was red burned down. (You need to know the color to know which house burned down.) The house, which was red, burned down. (If more than one house was red or you had no reference to what color each house was, then its redness is not essential to your understanding which house burned down. Therefore, that part, while it may be important to your story or description, is set off by commas and uses "which" because it's not "essential.") ...

---

i love this stuff.

You're - contraction for YOU ARE.

Your - the possessive form of you.

Test:

"I know that _______ the culprit, suho - ______ fingerprints were all over the scene of the crime!" exclaimed the inspector.

Affect is a verb, meaning to have influence on.
Effect is a noun, meaning result.

For example: Those special effects can really affect the immersive nature of the movie.

Test:

What is the _______ of these tablets?
How will these tablets _______ me?

Farther denotes distance.
Further relates to time or amount.

If you will permit me to take this argument further, I'm sure that I can throw my father farther than you.

--Contractions and Abbreviations (and their respective punctuation) has been removed (it doesn't seem to be consistent between uk/aus and usa, best to remove it and avoid possible misinformation)--

If anyone wants to take on correct use of punctuation with acronyms, contractions and abbreviations in plural and possessive form, be my guest.

reitsma

edit: heh, spelling fixes of course.




[This message has been edited by reitsma (edited 02-05-2004).]

quote:

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For example: Those special effects had such a good affect on the immersive nature of the movie.

---

The word "affect" in your example should in fact be "effect," since the word is being used as a noun (it's something which the special effects have.) You could say, however, that "Those special effects affected the immersive nature of the movie," where it is being used as a verb, so you want "affect."

quote:

---

For example: "Dr", "Mrs", "Mr", "Ltd" are all contractions. ... They do not require any punctuation.

---

I believe that's a British convention. In American English, you still use the period: Dr. Mrs. Mr. Ltd. Contractions are two words or more shortened into a single word, such as won't or o'clock.

And, incidentally ...

quote:

---

"I know that _______ the culprit, suho, ______ fingerprints were all over the scene of the crime!"

---

... is a run-on sentence.





[This message has been edited by Wes (edited 02-05-2004).]

I am not a native English speaking guy, learned English using books, and never had a problem with there, their, they're. Their meanings are so different, despite their similar sound. Maybe it's a native thing.

quote:

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I'm sure that I can through my father farther than you

---

What can you put him through exactly?

ouch!

Thanks for you're thoroughness, guys - its always interesting to see the nuances in grammar changes around the world. Obviously, location was no excuse for some of those errors, however!

I think i'll fix the contentious one's.



I would love to do further language study - and really get into the meat of sentence structure, grammar, and all that cool stuff.

reitsma

[This message has been edited by reitsma (edited 02-05-2004).]

That was quick...

I have a bad English, I admit. But, as long as people understand me, then there should be no communication problem.

cell 799

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Since you asked:

quote:

---

I got exams in june

---

I have exams in June. . .

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We have done so.
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quote:

---

I think i'll fix the contentious one's.

---

You might fix ones while you're at it.

I'm not picking on you, I swear.

Although I'm not a native, I'll try to answer your question based on what the books say: according to pages 58-59 of English Grammar in Use, by Raymond Murphy, there is no difference, in meaning, between "may" and "might". They can be used interchangeably in expressions like "It may be true" or "It might be true", or "You may/might have been asleep", etc.

On pages 60-61, the authour explains some situations where you must use might instead of may, like "when the situation is not real"

This is an interesting book. You may want to buy it. Or, you might want to buy it.

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Live and real conversations/texts found in the Internet are not good sources of education for language, many times. For instance: suppose you don't know which way to use: "I enjoy dancing" or "I enjoy to dance" and then you use Google to find out. Well, you can find dozens of samples of text using both ways but only one of them is the right way. I don't trust Google, many times (by Google, understand Internet), but I always trust a good English grammar book.

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Wow...that google reference just came out of left field

OK InI...corrections:

your one:

quote:

---

This place contains good linguists, and I am talking about THIS THREAD specifically,
I don't rely on google to help me pass my exams, I rely on my personal knowledge and mind,
but since I spend part of my time here surrounded by english natives with a good grammar/vocabulary,
DO YOU REALLY HAVE TO SUE ME FOR ASKING THOSE TO CORRECT ME WHEN I NEED IT? Dammit.

---

corrected version:

quote:

---

This place contains good linguists, and I am talking about THIS THREAD specifically.
I don't rely on google to help me pass my exams, I rely on my personal knowledge and mind,
but since I spend part of my time here, surrounded by english natives with a good grammar/vocabulary,
DO YOU REALLY HAVE TO SUE ME FOR ASKING THEM TO CORRECT ME WHEN I NEED IT? Dammit.

---

[This message has been edited by Skaarjj (edited 02-05-2004).]

Was I suing you?
I'm from Brazil, not the USA, and in my country we don't use lawyers as in here. We don't sue people for nothing. We don't have this "crazy suing culture".
I was just trying to help. If I didn't succeed, on contraire, if you felt "sued", too bad.

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Again, why would I want to patronize you?
I barely know you.
You probably are a typical teenager, for you act like so.

those/them - it's a matter of context.

"Them" is generally used to refer to something already mentioned -

I bought some pears at the market this morning, and put them in the refrigerator.

I went to the market this morning, and bought those pears that are in the refigerator.

Make sense?

To further exoand - in your sentence, if we worded it differently, you would have a choice between "them" and "these", and if we worded it more complexely, "those"
For instance, it could be worded -

". . .for asking these native english speakers to correct me when I need it?"

or ". . .for asking those members who are native english speakers to correct me when I need it?"

etc.

Also, I think Viol is simply trying to make the point that - helpful as this thread can be - there is no substitute for a good official reference book, and the internet in general is loaded with grammatical attrocities.



[This message has been edited by DL-44 (edited 02-05-2004).]

The poster has demanded we remove all his contributions, less he takes legal action.
We have done so.
Now Tyberius Prime expects him to start complaining that we removed his 'free speech' since this message will replace all of his posts, past and future.
Don't follow his example - seek real life help first.

quote:

---

Agreed, but does he have to insult me?

---

quote:

---

I'm sad I don't have time to tell you how much of a cunt you are.

---

....

Ini, first, I'm not upset. One has to be really good to be able to upset me in an electronic chat/board and you are not that good.

Secondly, if you felt insulted by my words, you have a problem. Unfortunately, there is no easy cure for your problem other than aging well.

Thirdly, don't be sad because of me. You're wasting your tears.

wes: well spotted. that one was just for you.

You missed the other mistake, however.



reitsma

I've got it:

quote:

---

its always interesting

---

should be:

quote:

---

it's always interesting

---

that, and the lower-case i in the word i'll, which should be an upper-case I

I would venture a guess that using "cunt" on your english exam would not be a good idea . . .

wow, they're, their, and there really gets people upset!

Is it google or Google? I think it's Google.

quote:

---

This place contains good linguists, and I am talking about THIS THREAD specifically.
I don't rely on google to help me pass my exams, I rely on my personal knowledge and mind,
but since I spend part of my time here, surrounded by english natives with a good grammar/vocabulary,
DO YOU REALLY HAVE TO SUE ME FOR ASKING THEM TO CORRECT ME WHEN I NEED IT? Dammit.

---

:::tao:::

IMO, it's Google, the search engine.
But now google is also a verb, in which case it's usually google.
Cantankerous Ini meant obviously Google, the search engine.

Oh, I just realized.
It's not english, it's English.

Thank you for picking that one up Tao...I missed that mis-capitalisation. The only way I can see Google being written without a capital G is when it is being written as a verb. I will google it, I am googling it and I googled it are three examples in the three tenses; past, present and future repectivley

[This message has been edited by Skaarjj (edited 02-06-2004).]

viol: that should be "Cantankerous InI obviously meant Google"

Isn't correction fun.

The poster has demanded we remove all his contributions, less he takes legal action.
We have done so.
Now Tyberius Prime expects him to start complaining that we removed his 'free speech' since this message will replace all of his posts, past and future.
Don't follow his example - seek real life help first.

Skaarrjj

quote:

---

I will google it, I am googling it, and I googled it are three examples in the three tenses; past, present and future repectivley

---

That would be future, presesnt and past, respectively..




[This message has been edited by docilebob (edited 02-06-2004).]

It's Latin, not latin; English, not english; Brazilian, not brazilian; French, not french, so forth and so on. For some odd reason, all these nouns and adjectives derived from names of countries are always capitalized in English. I say odd because it's not like this in my native language, Portuguese. We do not capitalize these words, unless they are the first one in the sentence.

And grammatically speaking, I strongly believe that "meant obviously" or "obviously meant" are both correct. They are just different "literary styles" in which you may want to emphasize one or the other word.

One thing that really gets on my nerves is the lack of a comma when directly addressing someone.


[This message has been edited by warjournal (edited 02-06-2004).]

Thanks, db, I screwed the pooch on that one, eh?

The poster has demanded we remove all his contributions, less he takes legal action.
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You mean, vitriol?
I didn't know that.

It's taught InI...not thaught

Oh, and for "meant obviously" to be correct it would have to be "meant, obviously, "

Agreed.

BTW, an odd use of comma for me is right before an "and", like: The national colors of USA are white, blue, and red.

This makes absolutely no sense in my native language because since white, red and blue are all part of the same list, we should NEVER use a comma before the "and". But I noticed that in English this is the standard.

As cores dos EUA são branco, azul e vermelho.

See, no comma before the "and" ("e"). It looks much nicer.


[This message has been edited by viol (edited 02-06-2004).]

I wonder how Ini managed to learn more about bad words in English than right words...

I believe some people start learning the four-letter words first, because they believe these are the most important words when communicating.

The poster has demanded we remove all his contributions, less he takes legal action.
We have done so.
Now Tyberius Prime expects him to start complaining that we removed his 'free speech' since this message will replace all of his posts, past and future.
Don't follow his example - seek real life help first.

Just for the record, the title of this thread, "Can we just do this real quick?", is incorrect.
'Quick' (or the word that should be in its place) is an adverb, describing how it is we are about to 'do this'. The adverb form of the root 'quick' is 'quickly'.

The topic title should read "Can we just do this quickly?"

Swiss boy, don't expect a private message from me. You know, each hour of my counseling is very expensive. And as I told you, only time will cure you, hopefully.

quote:

---

This makes absolutely no sense in my native language because since white, red and blue are all part of the same list, we should NEVER use a comma before the "and". But I noticed that in English this is the standard.

---

That's not necessarily true. This particular rule depends on which writing convention you adhere to. (Sorry ... "to which writing convention you adhere.")

According go AP (Associated Press) Style, the comma before the "and," which is refered to as the serial comma, is omitted. This is the standard I use.

quote:

---

Just for the record, the title of this thread, "Can we just do this real quick?", is incorrect.

---

Not to mention the fact we've been doing this over 2 months now.



[This message has been edited by Wes (edited 02-06-2004).]

The poster has demanded we remove all his contributions, less he takes legal action.
We have done so.
Now Tyberius Prime expects him to start complaining that we removed his 'free speech' since this message will replace all of his posts, past and future.
Don't follow his example - seek real life help first.

Ini, I really don't care about what you call me, because your opinion about me means naught to me. So, I don't want to waste time with fruitless private communication with you. Here in the asylum, I try to help people, when I can. You touched a subject that I really like, the English language. I have a lot to learn about English, more than I can learn in my left lifetime, but I keep studying.
Good luck Swiss boy.

Whoo! it's amazing how tense it can get in a virtual chat room... *shudder*

I've always used "may" as a permissive word, either asking for or granting permission:
"You may be excused from the table"
"Mother, may I?"

and "might" as more of a suggestion:
"You might be able to lift that box"
"You might want to check your email"

For what its worth...



[This message has been edited by bodhi23 (edited 02-06-2004).]

The poster has demanded we remove all his contributions, less he takes legal action.
We have done so.
Now Tyberius Prime expects him to start complaining that we removed his 'free speech' since this message will replace all of his posts, past and future.
Don't follow his example - seek real life help first.

The poster has demanded we remove all his contributions, less he takes legal action.
We have done so.
Now Tyberius Prime expects him to start complaining that we removed his 'free speech' since this message will replace all of his posts, past and future.
Don't follow his example - seek real life help first.