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shocktreatement Nervous Wreck (II) Inmate From: Insane since: Apr 2001	posted 08-16-2002 08:58 I have been coding HTML for awhile now (two years to be exact.) I love making layouts- but there is always a problem....and i hate this...a lot. I always have problems with the margins!! I always place this tag in the body: <body topmargin="0" bottommargin="0" leftmargin="0" rightmargin="0" marginwidth="0" marginheight="0"> The 'bottommargin' tag does not exist in the HTML world- I know this. As you all know, this little tag can only do so much! And it doesn't do much for me, for I am working with browers (MSN and Netscape 4.7) Anyone who has added this tag only, will know that it does NOT get rid of ALL margins. It leaves the right, and bottom margin open! The only way I have been able to fix this problem is by making a repeating background, to match the layout. I'm sick of doing this, and I don't want to do it anymore. There must be an easier way to do this! Which brings me to my question- Does anyone know of an easy and EFFECTIVE (meaning that this code will work possibly in old browsers like Netscape 4.7?) way for getting rid of the bottom and right margins? No, I don't want CSS,....I am looking for an EFFECTIVE method for getting rid of the margins in not only IE 7, and the newest version of MSN, but Old browsers aswell (like Netscape 4.7). Honestly? I haven't found a way and I'm not so sure anyone else will be able to show me a way....but hey...I posted here, which must mean I have some hope! heehee! Anyone have any ideas? \| \|shocktreatement\| \| "Didn't open the box,and what was it last time? Didn't know what the box was. And yet we do keep finding each other don't we. Perhaps your teasing us,are you teasing us? No games,no more teasing,time to play!"-Female Cenobite
mr.maX Maniac (V) Mad Scientist From: Belgrade, Serbia Insane since: Sep 2000	posted 08-16-2002 09:52 Specifying "rightmargin" & "bottommargin" parameters should do the trick in IE. I guess that you have some other error in your page...
kuckus Bipolar (III) Inmate From: Berlin (almost) Insane since: Dec 2001	posted 08-16-2002 10:00 See this FAQ: http://faq.ozoneasylum.com/451/ I'm pretty sure that this line <body leftmargin="0" rightmargin="0" topmargin="0" bottommargin="0" marginheight="0" marginwidth="0"> works for all the older browsers which don't understand CSS (and for most newer browsers, too). And why wouldn't you want to use CSS? If you use all these body tag properties and add body { margin: 0px; padding: 0px; } to your style sheets all browsers will stop displaying whitespace around you page. kuckus (cell #282)
DL-44 Maniac (V) Inmate From: under the bed Insane since: Feb 2000	posted 08-16-2002 13:20 NN 4.7 doesn't work the way things were meant to work. Period. As far back as a couple of years ago many people stopped worrying about supporting it, and at this point, not much of anybody really cares. The reason? 1) Barely anyone uses it anymore. 2) Web Standards. They're important, and moving past support for obsolete browsers is a big port of it. And I must also ask - why not CSS? It really doesn't make sense at this point to not be using CSS.
shocktreatement Nervous Wreck (II) Inmate From: Insane since: Apr 2001	posted 08-18-2002 06:31 I don't appreciate CSS. I really could care less whether CSS is the "In thing," to do, and is supported by the newer browsers. I don't like the fact that CSS isn't supported by the older browsers The mark of an awesome 'coder,' is not whether she/he can do many different parlor tricks, or whether she/he can even code their own table or frame or CSS layout. The mark of an awesome 'coder,' is the ability that she/he has to make a website that works in ALL browsers. Although it may seem impossible, it has been done a few times. Webmasters that test their websites in at least six different browsers, at different versions, and have them WORK! Are very talented. Yes, CSS is wonderful for the new browsers, but it is non-existent in all of the older browsers, along with iframes. Many people use older browsers, it's ridiculous to think otherwise, and I'm sorry to say, but as a webmaster, I want to consider all of those users using older browsers...because I "feel for them." I know what it is like viewing websites that are "unviewable," because they use a certain type of code not supported by my browser. (And lets not get into the details as to why a person wouldn't update their browsers.....there are many reasons....[ie. too much space on computer to even click on the update button]) I prefer coding that is not ONLY supported in newer browsers, but older ones aswell. You should see some of the CSS-based websites I have viewed through the eyes of MSN 5! They are a MESS! Words scrambled everywhere......links in ordinary places ....I don't want this for my website....I want my website at least aesthetically pleasing, or unreachable, if I am even going to think about using code that is only supported by certain browsers. Ah well, I'm rambling on....but you get the point. I don't like CSS, and I don't trust it either. OH well, such is life. --Shocktreatement-- p.s Thank you for the coding information "Didn't open the box,and what was it last time? Didn't know what the box was. And yet we do keep finding each other don't we. Perhaps your teasing us,are you teasing us? No games,no more teasing,time to play!"-Female Cenobite
RypTide Nervous Wreck (II) Inmate From: Manassas VA, USA Insane since: May 2002	posted 08-19-2002 15:17 http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp <--- you might want to take a look at that RypTide "Music is the vernacular of the human soul" ~ Geoffrey Latham
mr.maX Maniac (V) Mad Scientist From: Belgrade, Serbia Insane since: Sep 2000	posted 08-19-2002 17:05 http://www.thecounter.com/stats/ <--- and that
Emperor Maniac (V) Mad Scientist with Finglongers From: Cell 53, East Wing Insane since: Jul 2001	posted 08-19-2002 18:00 And: www.ozoneasylum.com/stats/#browsum username and password info here: http://faq.ozoneasylum.com/505/ ___________________ Emps FAQs: Emperor
DL-44 Maniac (V) Inmate From: under the bed Insane since: Feb 2000	posted 08-19-2002 18:29 CSS is not about 'parlor tricks' or the 'in thing'. It's about powerful, consistent, flexible, scalable web technology. The stats speak for themselves as far as I'm concerned, and 4x browsers are a thing of the past. A year ago your concerns may have been valid. A 'talented' coder know how to keep up with the technology as well, and knows teh needs of the market place. Support for obsolete non-compliant browsers is more or less out of the equation these days. Support for hand-held devices and the like is creeping more and more into the picture. ~shrug~ CSS is a very good thing. And the markd of a talented code is that he can make the pages work in any browser by implementing the proper CSS in the browsers that support it, and coding the pages properly so that the browsers that don't support it never see it, and everything still functions (even though it may not look the same). [This message has been edited by DL-44 (edited 08-19-2002).]
synax Maniac (V) Inmate From: Cell 666 Insane since: Mar 2002	posted 08-19-2002 18:42 Also, knowing HTML does not make you a coder...
CPrompt Maniac (V) Inmate From: there...no..there..... Insane since: May 2001	posted 08-19-2002 19:27 quote: : 17: 1: MSIE/7 huh?? IE 7 What is this? Later, C:\ ~Binary is best~
kuckus Bipolar (III) Inmate From: Berlin (almost) Insane since: Dec 2001	posted 08-19-2002 20:46 Maybe there are upcoming IE or Windows betas floating around... kuckus (cell #282)
Rameses Niblik the Third Maniac (V) Mad Scientist From: From:From: Insane since: Aug 2001	posted 10-05-2002 13:31 Okay, ladies and gentlemen. This is going into the archives, as it has not been replied to in a while. Apologies to anyone who wished to add their own little bit to this. S^abaal ud T'a johtizuc^ ult'a Fedaro.

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shocktreatement
Nervous Wreck (II) Inmate

From:
Insane since: Apr 2001

posted 08-16-2002 08:58

I have been coding HTML for awhile now (two years to be exact.)

I love making layouts- but there is always a problem....and i hate this...a lot.

I always have problems with the margins!!

I always place this tag in the body:
<body topmargin="0" bottommargin="0" leftmargin="0" rightmargin="0" marginwidth="0" marginheight="0">

The 'bottommargin' tag does not exist in the HTML world- I know this.

As you all know, this little tag can only do so much! And it doesn't do much for me, for I am working with browers (MSN and Netscape 4.7) Anyone who has added this tag only, will know that it does NOT get rid of ALL margins. It leaves the right, and bottom margin open!

The only way I have been able to fix this problem is by making a repeating background, to match the layout. I'm sick of doing this, and I don't want to do it anymore. There must be an easier way to do this!

Which brings me to my question- Does anyone know of an easy and EFFECTIVE (meaning that this code will work possibly in old browsers like Netscape 4.7?) way for getting rid of the bottom and right margins?

No, I don't want CSS,....I am looking for an EFFECTIVE method for getting rid of the margins in not only IE 7, and the newest version of MSN, but Old browsers aswell (like Netscape 4.7).

Honestly? I haven't found a way and I'm not so sure anyone else will be able to show me a way....but hey...I posted here, which must mean I have some hope! heehee!

Anyone have any ideas?

| |shocktreatement| |

"Didn't open the box,and what was it last time? Didn't know what the box was. And yet we do keep finding each other don't we. Perhaps your teasing us,are you teasing us? No games,no more teasing,time to play!"-Female Cenobite

mr.maX
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: Belgrade, Serbia
Insane since: Sep 2000

posted 08-16-2002 09:52

Specifying "rightmargin" & "bottommargin" parameters should do the trick in IE. I guess that you have some other error in your page...

kuckus
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: Berlin (almost)
Insane since: Dec 2001

posted 08-16-2002 10:00

See this FAQ:
http://faq.ozoneasylum.com/451/

I'm pretty sure that this line

<body leftmargin="0" rightmargin="0" topmargin="0" bottommargin="0" marginheight="0" marginwidth="0">

works for all the older browsers which don't understand CSS (and for most newer browsers, too).

And why wouldn't you want to use CSS? If you use all these body tag properties and add

body { margin: 0px; padding: 0px; }

to your style sheets all browsers will stop displaying whitespace around you page.

kuckus (cell #282)

DL-44
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: under the bed
Insane since: Feb 2000

posted 08-16-2002 13:20

NN 4.7 doesn't work the way things were meant to work. Period.

As far back as a couple of years ago many people stopped worrying about supporting it, and at this point, not much of anybody really cares. The reason? 1) Barely anyone uses it anymore. 2) Web Standards. They're important, and moving past support for obsolete browsers is a big port of it.

And I must also ask - why not CSS? It really doesn't make sense at this point to not be using CSS.

shocktreatement
Nervous Wreck (II) Inmate

From:
Insane since: Apr 2001

posted 08-18-2002 06:31

I don't appreciate CSS.
I really could care less whether CSS is the "In thing," to do, and is supported by the newer browsers. I don't like the fact that CSS isn't supported by the older browsers

The mark of an awesome 'coder,' is not whether she/he can do many different parlor tricks, or whether she/he can even code their own table or frame or CSS layout.
The mark of an awesome 'coder,' is the ability that she/he has to make a website that works in ALL browsers. Although it may seem impossible, it has been done a few times. Webmasters that test their websites in at least six different browsers, at different versions, and have them WORK! Are very talented.

Yes, CSS is wonderful for the new browsers, but it is non-existent in all of the older browsers, along with iframes. Many people use older browsers, it's ridiculous to think otherwise, and I'm sorry to say, but as a webmaster, I want to consider all of those users using older browsers...because I "feel for them." I know what it is like viewing websites that are "unviewable," because they use a certain type of code not supported by my browser. (And lets not get into the details as to why a person wouldn't update their browsers.....there are many reasons....[ie. too much space on computer to even click on the update button])

I prefer coding that is not ONLY supported in newer browsers, but older ones aswell. You should see some of the CSS-based websites I have viewed through the eyes of MSN 5! They are a MESS! Words scrambled everywhere......links in ordinary places ....I don't want this for my website....I want my website at least aesthetically pleasing, or unreachable, if I am even going to think about using code that is only supported by certain browsers.

Ah well, I'm rambling on....but you get the point. I don't like CSS, and I don't trust it either. OH well, such is life.

--Shocktreatement--
p.s
Thank you for the coding information

"Didn't open the box,and what was it last time? Didn't know what the box was. And yet we do keep finding each other don't we. Perhaps your teasing us,are you teasing us? No games,no more teasing,time to play!"-Female Cenobite

RypTide
Nervous Wreck (II) Inmate

From: Manassas VA, USA
Insane since: May 2002

posted 08-19-2002 15:17

http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp <--- you might want to take a look at that

RypTide

"Music is the vernacular of the human soul" ~ Geoffrey Latham

mr.maX
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: Belgrade, Serbia
Insane since: Sep 2000

posted 08-19-2002 17:05

http://www.thecounter.com/stats/ <--- and that

Emperor
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist with Finglongers

From: Cell 53, East Wing
Insane since: Jul 2001

posted 08-19-2002 18:00

And:
www.ozoneasylum.com/stats/#browsum

username and password info here:
http://faq.ozoneasylum.com/505/

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

DL-44
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: under the bed
Insane since: Feb 2000

posted 08-19-2002 18:29

CSS is not about 'parlor tricks' or the 'in thing'.

It's about powerful, consistent, flexible, scalable web technology.

The stats speak for themselves as far as I'm concerned, and 4x browsers are a thing of the past.

A year ago your concerns may have been valid.

A 'talented' coder know how to keep up with the technology as well, and knows teh needs of the market place.

Support for obsolete non-compliant browsers is more or less out of the equation these days. Support for hand-held devices and the like is creeping more and more into the picture.

~shrug~

CSS is a very good thing.

And the markd of a talented code is that he can make the pages work in any browser by implementing the proper CSS in the browsers that support it, and coding the pages properly so that the browsers that don't support it never see it, and everything still functions (even though it may not look the same).

[This message has been edited by DL-44 (edited 08-19-2002).]

synax
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: Cell 666
Insane since: Mar 2002

posted 08-19-2002 18:42

Also, knowing HTML does not make you a coder...

CPrompt
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: there...no..there.....
Insane since: May 2001

posted 08-19-2002 19:27

quote:
: 17: 1: MSIE/7

huh?? IE 7

What is this?

Later,
C:\

~Binary is best~

kuckus
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: Berlin (almost)
Insane since: Dec 2001

posted 08-19-2002 20:46

Maybe there are upcoming IE or Windows betas floating around...

kuckus (cell #282)

Rameses Niblik the Third
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: From:From:
Insane since: Aug 2001

posted 10-05-2002 13:31

Okay, ladies and gentlemen. This is going into the archives, as it has not been replied to in a while. Apologies to anyone who wished to add their own little bit to this.

S^abaal ud T'a johtizuc^ ult'a Fedaro.