Preserved Topic: Why do you surf with javascript disabled?

It came up in a CSS discussion about people who disable javascript on their browsers.

If you do this, please put why... and what browser and version.

I think you are missing alot, so I'd like to know your reasoning.

Thanks.

You're talking about me, and I'm pleased to answer. For every time a website resizes my browser window, or opens itself in a new window without browser controls, or has a scrolling marquee, or pops up ANYthing, whether good or bad... that negates a hundred, even a thousand, "good" uses of Javascript.

It's that simple. Bad web design is one thing; Javascript can be used to literally assault the way I wish to use the Web. Therefore, I say fuck Javascript entirely. If a site looks cool enough, like a Doc Ozone or Wapod kind of thing, I'll fire up Internet Explorer and check it out; otherwise, I'm on Javascript-crippled Opera 6 24/7.

I posted a statistic on that post mentioning that according to TheCounter.com, at least, about 10% of web users leave Javascript turned off. Let's be very generous and assume that a good 3% of all hits, ever, come from search engines or other robots. That would still leave 7% of users Javascript-less. Answer: either put a "please turn Javascript on to fully enjoy this site" marker on your front page (and feel the wrath of those who hate such message); or don't use Javascript; or use Javascript and accept that 7% of your audience won't see it.

The last alternative is actually a good one. Just make damn sure that your page works even without Javascript.

Perfect Thunder: You may be interested in Mozilla 1.1, which provides the ability to turn off all of the obnoxious javascript abilities you just mentioned (no popups, no window resizing, no status bar changing, etc).

And I entirely agree with you: A well designed site will work perfectly fine without JavaScript (excluding javascript games and other such things that are 99% javascript, but someone with javascript turned off wouldn't be going to those anyway).

Hmm so this means rollovers or nothing would work, basically you can have Html , css and i guess serverside stuff like php?

Is there anyway for a website to detect if JS is enabled or disabled, so you can load a non JS version of the site or something?
(obviously you cant use JS to detect this :P)

H][RO: There are numerous tricks you can use but they tend to be a little messy and you should only use them if they are vital. I'm sure the clever folks here have other cunning ideas but this will allow you to detect JavaScript and pass the results to server-side scripting so you could make adjustments:

<form name="javascript_detect">

<input type="hidden" name="javascript" value="no">

</form>



<script language="Javascript">

<!--

document.javascript_detect.javascript.value="yes";

document.javascript_detect.submit();

//-->

</script>

I presume if you had a gateway page you could try and set a cookie with JavaScript and then see if it was set later on with server-side scripting and take any required steps (serving up a different page for example).

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

I haven't tried this, but I guess that if you put <META> refresh tag inside <NOSCRIPT></NOSCRIPT> tag, it will refresh page (to some other location, for example) when JS is turned off...

ahh thanks emp, thats quite a clever and simple way to do it, wouldnt be hard to use php and that to get what u want, thanks...

I'm a little confused with javascript tho, i thought rollovers USED javascript? same sort of stuff for opening a page ina new window, yet they still work with javascript dissabled? am i getting confused are they actually different or is it just that they are built in?

H][RO: I think the problem is that people rely on a lot of JavaScript these days and some elements and navigation can just stop working without it (who these days checks theor site with it switched off these days?).

The script will automatically refresh the page and pass the value through so it can be picked up server-side and you can then server-side coding to set a cookie or session so you don't need to check again - you also don't need to rely on the fact that people have to pass through your gateway page (never underestimate what people will do):

<?php

if ($javascript != 'yes') {

?>



<form name="javascript_detect">

<input type="hidden" name="javascript" value="no">

</form>



<script language="Javascript">

<!--

document.javascript_detect.javascript.value="yes";

document.javascript_detect.submit();

//-->

</script>



<?php

}

?>

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

"rollovers USED javascript? same sort of stuff for opening a page ina new window"

Not really, some rollovers can be done with CSS. And opening links in a new window is as smiple as target="_blank"

Thanks for posting about Mozilla, Slime.
That was to be my reasoning as to keeping it enabled.

I disable all window resizing and unrequested popup windows and status bar changes in Mozilla (the best browser I know of.)

I see the main reason for using javascript in my pages is to enhance the usability of a site.
All the sites I use it on, I use it to make it more easy to use with less work by the viewer to fill in forms or use the mouse, or download another page, etc.

All my uses are very transparent however, which is good for the disabled javascript users, but sometimes that can be bad, as the frequent users with disabled javascript, would never suspect there would be an easier way if they just had javascript enabled.

Oh well, to each his own, but I'd say Mozilla has done a great thing by including the ability to block such nonsense.
And as it is reported everyday that search engines like Ask.com and popular sites like msn.com are switching off of those bastard popups, it shows that these changes and the touting of "popup blockers" by ISPs such as Earthlink make a tangible difference on the thinking of thick-headed marketeers.
And it's probably that 10% Perfect Thunder touts (although I'd bet most of those are grabbers) that led the charge.

Well PT whaddaya say? Gonna start using Mozilla? Hmm?

edit: Look I even provided the link! --> here

[This message has been edited by genis (edited 10-27-2002).]

don't know about PT , but i'm gonna take a look at that mozilla. thanx.

myself i just use IE6 with Popup-Stopper installed, i rarely ever get any other JS performing stuff i dont want other than popups etc.. since IE is most widely supported to me this seems the best solution.. but thats just me

I use The Proxomitron with my own custom config to completely disable all active content everywhere. I can then add sites to an appropriate bypass list to enable scripting or what have you at the sites I trust (like this one .

The benefits I get from this are:

My browser never crashes due to someones shoddy code.
I never have to worry about script, activeX, or java exploits.
No browser hijacks.
No annoyances such as popups etc.
Enhanced privacy.

Very few websites are broken beyond usability by this.

Of course Proxomitron is a lot more than a popup stopper. It can rewrite pages on the fly and even inject your own content (stylesheets, toolbars, redefine javascript, etc.) so it allows you to surf pretty much on your own terms. With a good config and a rotating list of remote anonymous proxies it provides near perfect online anonymity. There are even filters available that make it look like you are connecting via a proxy when in fact you are not.

More info and help at http://asp.flaaten.dk/proxo/