Preserved Topic: ghod

i tried making an evil dog, then it turned out to be a ghost. I just can't get painting down.

What do you usually use, dodge burn, airbrush, what? how do you choose more colors to get them to blend smoothly? what's wrong with this?

I use the brush tool, then the smudge tool. That's it.

Did you happen to browse these two threads by any chance?
http://www.ozoneasylum.com/Forum3/HTML/001207.html http://www.ozoneasylum.com/Forum3/HTML/001221.html

yep... go browse those threads...
but for quick refrence...
* paint brush
* smudge
* air brush

here's the update

what's wrong with it? i think i need to blend my colors more, but it's just not working. i saved weadah's tut, but i haven't read through it all yet.



[This message has been edited by JakeB (edited 05-25-2001).]

umm, read it.

then come back and ask more questions.

pfft.... the Asylum is being a bitch... so I'll break this up into a couple of posts....

Ok... first things first...

- When you go to read through a tut. Read the whole thing FIRST. That goes for everyone.... so pay attention people. There's nothing more annoying than writing a solid tut and then having people turning around and e-mailing you questions that are already in there. Obviously the people writing the tuts don't mind helping out... so they will reply... but it's best you read EVERYTHING and use the person as a last resort... it helps them attempt to keep their sanity. Be realistic. Be independent.

- So read through Wead's tut.

- Done yet?... let's press on. Relize that Wead's tut isn't aimed at anyone... you've got to have a grasp first. He also left a fair amount of details out. Reason being... is that he probably WANTED people to ask questions here in the forum so that he could help a lot of people all at once. SO that is not a "complete" tutorial so to speak.

- Ok. If you are going to paint anything or draw anything you have to know the image you are drawing/painting. The best way to do this is to view REAL LIFE OBJECTS. Do you have a dog? Get it to pull up a chair next to your computer. Better lay down some newspaper for him... it's gonna be a while.

- NOW, I have no idea what level you are at... and what sort of photoshop experience you have. So I need to know whether or not you've ever messed around seriously with 3d objects. You can't go jumping into making a masterpiece.... you have to work yourself up to it. Start with a BASIC shape. A spere for instance....
Look here:



It's nothing special... I know. But this was the first attempt at this method/style of painting. I suggest you do the same.
Make a new document that's about 500x500
Make a sphere.
You always need to know what your shape is... and where it's boundaries are... sketch them on a separte layer if you must.
Decide where you want the light source to hit the object.
Pick a color (Blue).
Now choose a variation of blue that is fairly light.
Pick a small paint brush... (the second to smallest standard will be fine)
Now... I do not like to start with the brightest point... (where the light source hits it)
I start just outside of it and define somewhat of a 'form' that the lightsource will make on the object. (oval, curved, whatever)
Now.. make smooth strokes as you go along this 'form' of the lightsource... go slow your first time.
Don't make a gazillion lines going around it... and you don't have to make it 'full'.
'Full' meaning... that it has no gaps. I said you don't have to ... therefore.... YOU CAN LEAVE GAPS... lots of 'em.
Now... after you make a few strokes outlining the lightsource area.... it's time to move on.
Choose a slightly darker shade of that color...
Paint smooth strokes along the edge of the previous shade.
Work your way out... shade by shade...
Keep in mind, that your 'form' for the light source will deteriorate as you get further from it.
Take a look at this:



which is the actual size for this.



There's a lot to take note to here... so take a good look at things and pay attention.

I was going SLOOOWWWW when I did this.
I had a mirror diectly next to my monitor... it gave me the option to be VERY precise with lines right off the bat.
Notice that for my brightest areas... I just used a color that was close to it instead.
As Wead mentioned in his tut...
SAVE THE BRIGHTEST AND DARKEST FOR LAST!
That's when detail comes in.

Look at the top picture.
You can see the differences in shade in most places.
The places that you can't see the transition is because the lines are overlapping into each other's sections... so it blends a bit.

After you have a rough draft for the first layer... if you're anything like I was, you'll have gaps EVERYWHERE. So what I used to do is copy that layer about 5 times. Then I'd merge the top 4 layers. You'll see the image fill in on it's own.

Copy the merged layer... then activate teh merged layer and turn off the visibility for the rest.
I like to smudge a lot... that's just the way I do things... so I take out the smudge tool now.

You should zoom in... a lot. I zoom in and out constantly.
SO zoom in and use the smudge tool to start blending things. Go slow... and really take notice as to HOW the smudge tool works.
There's a lot more to it than you think.

So you smudge smudge smudge for a bit.
Now you go back and forth with the paint brush and smudge tool... darkening... lightening.... filling in.
Start to get dark on the edges... and light in the light source.

Remember Shard posted that flower not too long ago that he was working on.
I told him to darken the edges.... and was ignored twice.
So... I'll show you what I did up in 3 to 5 minutes on his pic.....



Notice a clear difference in the edges... and it helps bring out the rest. I worked the darkness into the middle a bit more... and smoothed it out with the smudge tool. Like I said... it was a quick 5 minute thing.

When you finally think you have smoothed a lot of edges and have the basic form... post back your image here.

THAT GOES FOR ANYONE. Post it here when you've done a lot of smoothing and re-painting.

Don't go running into using the airbrush until you have the rest of it workin' perfectly.
But... seeing as I know, people won't listen.... I'm just going to post the airbrush portion anyway.

So now you've got this smooth... yet blurred image sitting before you.
You can still see some hard changes in color... but it's starting to shape up nicely...
all you need is something that's going to bring it all out.



[This message has been edited by taxon (edited 05-25-2001).]

SCHWIINNGGG!.... we pull out the handy dandy air brush... YAY! *the crowd goes wild*

Make up a new layer.
Set the opacity to 40% or so... I usually linger right about there... although it does vary... so play with it while you start to work.
Pick a brush.. small once again.
ZOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMM!
You wanna be as close to inside the picture as you can when you're doing this.
I like to be working around my lightest area when I start my air brushing.
So I find an area that needs to be smoothed out and cleaned up... maybe a change in color is highly noticable in one area... so you color pick one of the pixels NEAR that area... and you brush a few stokes across the area in question.
It'll blend it in a bit.
Go over it again if you must.
Then move slightly to a new spot... and repeat...
and repeat...
over and over and over again.
Zoom in... Zoom out....
keep looking at the actual size and then zoom in.
Save the document and then image size it down to see how it's coming....(as we already know... work BIG.. and then size it down)
So once you see how it's coming... undo your image size and go back to air brushing.
you can really start to define the highlights with it.

All of the burning of the edges and wiping it clean is explained in Wead's tut.... no need for me to regurgitate more of the same like I have already.

SO NOW....
go give it a shot...
the only way to learn is to do it.

Do not be frustrated when things aren't panning out. Start over if you have to. Once you begin to grasp this concept... the ball will roll quickly.

Post back while you progress.... we want to see the image evolve so that you can be stopped and helped when you start to go a stray...
Agreed?
If anyone else wants to jump in here... feel free...
either to post an image or submit more help....
That's a decent overview of things I think though..... in laymen's terms.

Gather what you can from this...
JakeB - start over.... because you can't work with what you have there.... it's time to choose a new angle of attack.

I don't want to see more of this:



Agreed?


-Mike-

Taxon that is hilarious. I wasn't quit sure what you could do to finalize.......but the evil words from Mr. Carpet Monster was perfect, lmao.

Goodie. I did this like a week ago and I've been waiting for the right time to whip this out...

sorry about the size

Loonies love trucks.

That`s sweet, jeni. glad I was here when you whipped it out.

First thing that catches my eye is where the bloom opens, it seem cut off. Doesn`t the petal edge slope downward towards the center ? If you smooth out the dodges and burns a little and continue that nice texturing in the foreground, It would be outstanding.

nice job.

where'd my reply go?

well, i basically said that i read the tutorial. I can do that stuff on paper, but some reason it doesn't work on screen. when i use the brush it doesn't mix, it either shows the old color right through or it totally converts it to the brush color. maybe it's just psp, but it does the same in the gimp. So im guesing it's me.

Play around with the brush options..........the strength and size of the brush will obviously have a profound effect on the results of it................mmmm? haven't used PSP in a looooong time, but I do recall a nice big pop-up box for those exact settings for whatever tool you're using.

play around......try different approaches at this.....you can only be told so much - you need to fill in the gaps

DL is right.... YOU gotta keep workin at it. Don't get deterred from this what-so-ever.

If you can do it on paper.... DO IT. Then scan it. Then put the picture on a bottom layer and paint above it so that you can get the feel for everything...

Aww boooo Taxon. I didn't ignore you bud. I'm still working on the pic in bits and pieces but I've got a million and one things going on all the sudden. I absolutely love what you did with my flower there. Great job. I'll be posting an update within a few days hopefully. If not, your words have definately sunk in, Taxon, and I greatly appreciate your ideas. Thanks!!

I look forward to the update...

hmm...
Ok..
what are we looking to help you with here Jake..?
what goal are you trying to accomplish...?
what do you think you are having trouble with?

help us... help you...
I'm absolutely serious.... tell us everything you can so that we can better help you...

hey taxon, here's my work so far on a blue ball. as you can i see im up to the smooth it out stage... but i thought i'd post this incase i'd gone badly wrong methinks i should have perhaps started with something a bit bigger, oh well.
I guess you just sort of paint the shadow onto the ground in the same sort of way, just in grey? also the edges are a bit wobbly, i can mask them out i suppose?
Also anyone got any tips on how to make painting with the mouse any easier until i get my tablet back [could take a while]


thanks for all this cool stuff people.

Hey man... that's a killer start... really...

First thing..... yeah... if that's the size you're workin at.... you should have made it slightly larger.
NO big deal... press on.

As far as the shadow is concerned... I'd wait until you ge tthe object done... you may end up changing the angle of the light source before this is over...

As far as smoothing out the edges....
do you have an invisible layer that has the original circle on it?
If so... just magic wand it and then select inverse.... then move to the layer you are creating teh sphere on adn delete it. You could also take the biggest eraser you got and go very slowly about the edges.

I know about painting with the mouse man.... it's a pain... that's what I use for everything I do.
My only advice is to take your time.
A guy using a mouse who is more 'anal' about SEEING his object is much better off than the one with the wacom that is just moving along without an object.
Real life sources are the key... added with time.

Post back... I wanna see it develope...

well i've been smudging like a kid with some chalks, but i can't seem to get this to go right, its still too banded. should i have had more colours to start with?



i guess i should spend more time on this, but its late and i should be revising for my AS exams. hehe as if




[This message has been edited by Relain (edited 05-28-2001).]

Good progression...
you're getting the idea here...

If you wanna try a little something...
Try using G-blur on it.... 1px only... that'll mesh together some of it for you..

Then you'll still have to go back and smudge.
Blurring can be helpful... but extremely bad if done too much....

You're right, you need more colors in there....
So add them... don't expect to have all the colors you want right off the bat...

Pick and area.... zoom in... and pick the colors in between the hard transitions... then work with that... small brush/small smudge.

Every once in a while Zoom way out to see how the image looks when it's smaller... it'll give you a good idea of what you are working towards...

threep looks at taxon's last post, and decides that perhaps, he may be able to provide a vaguely useful tip in this area:
"taxon (and others!) - have you tried clicking 'view -> new view'? that way you can have two copies of the image open, one at pixel level, one at 100%..."
wondering how obvious a tip this is, he figures that its worth posting anyway, cause it's just so damned useful.

Yes.... damn useful.
And I may try that out...
alas...only so much space on the monitor...
..just have to get another one...

i just want to be able to get my colors mixing so i can paint

relain-whats your name mean? you got a good start, the ball looks a little wierd since the light is squarish.
edit:it's looking better now, just add some more color. You you could add a darker color to shade the left side

[This message has been edited by JakeB (edited 05-28-2001).]

i'm having a problem with the head, it's a pegasus

It's a chicken.

Jake - you aren't listening.
You need to start small to get the hang of the technique. From what I'm seeing... you are getting ntohing from my previous comments.

Are you even looking at a pic of a horse's head or something to refrence the contours of it?

Without the basics of form, lighting, and shading on smaller objects... you're not going to be able to tackle a project that size.

DB-Maybe I'm just a little slow cause it's the am, but can you be more specific? I'm not clear on the area you're referring to.

Loonies love trucks.

For future reference
polar bear
horse
I belive Pegasuses are supposed to look more like horses...

Relain. I think I actually like your first version of the ball better. It looks more drawn, and has some real texture. If you make it to even it will end up look more and more like a ball you will make in just a few seconds using gradients.

ZOX... that's the point of the exercise... to make it as clean as possible. To learn to use PS tools to the fullest, that way when you come to a facial contour or soemthign else that you can't go and use a gradient on.... you won't have a problem with it.

i was looking at a picture. all i wanted to focus on was the horse, not the whole scene but i needed a background.

i know i can't draw horses, so i needed practice. i had the shading better, but the jpeg kinda lost it. How much compression do you usually use?

a polar bear is kinda like a horse when you look at those two links. the polar bear is fatter and has a shorter neck, otherwise they are kinda close. I have the wings too far back, and the legs are a little fat. and i can't bet detail with my mouse or pen, cause they don't act like a real pen.

quote:

---

and i can't get detail with my mouse or pen, cause they don't act like a real pen.

---

apparently I have done nothing.

i use 60% jpg compression in ps6.

kinda old:


almost all of my work is done with burn/dodge. some colors burn/dodge better than others. the unicorn was done with grey airbrushing, though. same with the nightmare.

this color didnt take burn/dodge very well, unlike the color i used for the one on my site:


edit: all of my work is done with a mouse.

------
this rose has a thorn...

[This message has been edited by la'dsasha (edited 05-29-2001).]

jeni: the place that looks odd to me is...Ok. start where the stem meets the bloom. Then go a few pixels left of straight up to the cetnter of the bloom. Where the front edge of the petal sweeps across to the right, and then you can see the yellow of the inside of the bloom. that edge of the bloom looks cut off. Red to yellow, sharp shift.

It should either wrap around behind itself ( in which case it needs shading to show the curl)

Or it should curve downward towards the center of the bloom near the stem, where it opens from.

The edge highlights are a little sharp, too. Maybe smudge them. or if an overlay, g-blur `em a pixel or two.

Or, I may be thinking of a completely different flower, but dosen`t it have a long pestil or two in the middle of the bloom ?




If they had just killed Gilligan, they`d have been off the island in a week.

Jake: You have to remember it`s NOT a real pen. It`s like useing a new tool, cause, well... it`s a new tool.

Check the threads DL posted above. It`s outstanding stuff.

Then read taxons posts. That`s really good stuff, too.

It`ll go better when you approach it like you`re not using a pen. All the techniques don`t cross over.



If they had just killed Gilligan, they`d have been off the island in a week.

I see Taxon. Then forget what I said <g>

Jake. Do you really think the polar bear and horse look alike? I guess they are the same in that they both are mammals, have four legs etc. and they are built up the same way. But the bears are much stockier animals. I guess my point was that your pegasus looks a bit too much like a polar bear at the moment. Study the picture of the horse (and any other horsepicture you might find) and look for differences in what it looks like and your drawing. Longer slender legs for instance.

La'sasha, you are a girl so you are supposed to be good at drawing horses
It looks good though

whats being female have to do with drawing horses? i would sure hope that after drawing horses since kindergarden (now 24 years old) that i would be somewhat good at it.

if you have a steady hand and a good understanding of proportions, you can draw anything. a few weeks ago, i sketched a car from a photograph. ive never drawn a car before. ive drawn my psx1 and a laundry detergent bottle, too. stuff i usually dont draw.

however, you will find that some stuff that you can touch is easier to draw than stuff from a photograph. ive owned horses. i know where their muscling is from brushing them all the time.

------
this rose has a thorn...

nah... ZOX didn't mean anything by it.... he was just kidding.

_________________

I would sure hope that after drawing horses since kindergarden (now 24 years old) that i would be somewhat good at it.
_________________

Yeah, this is what I meant. I remember from all through elementary school how all the girls would always draw horses. And naturally they became quite good at it.

A horse or other animal is really quite a bit harder to get right than a laundry detergent bottle, since a bottle does not need to have the exact right proportions to look like a bottle. Myself I usually find the human figure to be the hardest to get to look good. I have yet to make a serious attempt at a horse. Maybe I will try it sometime

I already know from your websites that you are good at drawing

Funny that you mention drawing from a photo, because that can be a good way to learn how something looks on a flat surface, but drawings done from photos often look flat and uninspired. Drawing from life is the way to go.

-jiblet

Yes, that's what I'm trying to say here.

There is no substitute for real life...
But drawing from a picture is good practice. If you take a pic... and then partially refrence it with real life... then you shouldn't run into any problems with it being flat...

Ok...after reading through this thread several times...I'm going to be *very* blunt here:

jake...your images look like the things my 7 year old daughter draws.

Now, the reason for this would be that you apparently aren't paying any attention to the things taxon has been saying, or the things in the tutorial Weadah posted. They are *very* important things.
READ THEM and PAY ATTENTION TO THEM.

You may also consider purchasing (or borrowing from your local library) books on the basics of drawing and painting. Because your horse looks nothing like a horse, your trees look nothing like trees, your grass looks nothing like grass and your sky looks nothing like sky.

DL is right Jake...
you need to pay attention to what's trying to be conveyed to you.

I, personally do not enjoy writing out copius amounts of info that doesn't get any attention.
You asked for the help...
we are trying...
... it's your turn.

don't feel like i haven't read through what everyone's been saying. i have read it all, i just am having trouble applying it.

you asked what level i am? i don't know, i haven't had any art classes because i'm only 14, so school hasn't offered it for my age yet.

the pictures i posted it wasn't supposed to look real, but i wanted the pegasus to.

i'm going to try and make sure i know how to do this first on paper, then i'm going to try in paint shop. i drew this hand in pen so i couldn't start with the middle color because i can't erase. it turned out a little dark, but i tried to make some lighter and some darker without making it look shiney. i hope this is more like what you have been saying.

Just out of curiosity, where are you from JakeB?

Also, I did not realize your age, and that *does* effect things somewhat.

So, let me say this: follow my previous advice and go to your local (or school) library and check out some books on the basics of drawing. Start there. If you can't draw it, you can't very well paint it...

IF you want to draw people....get anatomy books. If you want to draw horses, get horse books. Or, if you're lucky enough to be in an area where there are horse farms, go hang out outside the fence and sketch them in motion. Sit in a mall or a town hall lobby or a park and sketch the movement of people as they pass...sketch their facial expressions and all that.

And, I'll reiterate the ever present most important fact behind quality artwork: LOOK.

Look at everything around you, and SEE what colors comprise certain things...notice what *color* the highlighted portion of the hubcap on the car you're walking by is....notice how light bends around the pole that holds the streetlamp...notice the textures that make up the objects you pass...etc etc etc etc.....

Jake, you got to realize that this here is the asylum, and most of these people are pros, with years of experience. But they didn't start out that way. They, too, had to learn. Taxon said it best: Start small, with simple objects. Learn first to master your tools, then train your eyes. It takes time. Michaellangelo had to start from scratch, too.
Whatever you do, don't give up! Sometimes its discouraging, and even hard. But it's worth it, if you wish to do art.
And try to listen to the experts, even when they are sometimes...a bit stern. After all, they are taking time to relate their experience and expertise to you. At no cost. Be interested to see what you produce in the future. Good luck!