Preserved Topic: leather (Page 2 of 2)

Sorry if I came of as flaming anyone. I've lost count of the times I've entered into what I considered a discussion or mild debate and ended up making everyone think I've been flaming everything. I think I'm probably poor at conveying things as text. When I'm talking in RL, I rarely offend anyone. Facial expressions and body language can do wonders to convey when you're discussing something academically vs. arguing. My dry writing style makes it seem like everything is calculated, deliberate, and pointedly judgmental, I think.

No offense intended to anyone.

Twitch and I had a similar disagreement about this very subject many months ago. I've been in "lurk" mode since then. Why? Because, as VP has already stated, I believe this forum has wealth of knowledge, I just found it easier to search for past topics similar to what I was looking for rather than endure ridicule for not being "one of us".

I'm not sure I'd be proud of being "elitist". I can't imagine that Doc had that in mind when he started the forums but, of course, I don't know. Could he have said," I wanna make a forum where only experts will come and pat each other on the back for being so damn good and... we can talk down to those who have not our POWER." Nah. I don't buy it.

I see some of you coming to DL's defense for the idea he was trying to convey. However, I don't think it was the idea that was ever in question... it was the delivery. Hell, I agree wholeheartedly with the idea of reiterating the basics of observation, I just think it could've been done sans innuendo.

Also, as has been pointed out, people learn in different ways. There are more active learners that can digest an owner's manual grasp the things within. There are also more passive learners that need to see something done in order to spawn their own interpretations. Should all of us passive learners look down upon those are active learners?? Nah. Instead, maybe we could take we learned actively and regergitate it in a fashion that the passive learners can catch on too. And they, in turn, should do the same for us. Afterall, we're all gathered here for our love of graphics, right? So, why can't we offer that helping hand that can help someone else share that love of graphics too??

Oh well.

Shard - I don't recall the thread you refer to, and I only remember your name, and nothing associated with it, so I can't speak to the reference you make.

However.

There is a great misconception that the manner in which I speak and the things that I say are somehow "elitist".

That is absurd. In every way.

I conisder myself a relatively talented artist. I consider myself a mediocre "graphic artist" or "computer artist" or whatever you may want to call it.

I look at things one basic way: there are concepts that enable a person to understand and duplicate imagery. These concepts are medium-independant, and apply to people more or less regardless of their learning style.

Promoting these concepts is not a bad thing. You can call me insensitive perhaps, although that is not quite accurate. You could possibly call me inconsiderate, but that is high ly inaccurate - I consider very thoroughly the things I say.

At worst I think I could realistically be desribed as "curt".

And as I have said before, if you can't take that, then you have no business being in the graphic design filed anyway. Professionally or otherwise.

~shrug~

I can't make the people who would rather everything be soft and kind see this point of view. This isn't harsh. This isn't rude. This isn't elitist. This IS basic. This is the way of things. Regardless of any individual or group thereof's inability to deal with it.

........

I hate to say this. Osprey, but what's wrong with the clouds filter? Anybody with a decent amount of photoshop skill should be able to tell if the clouds filter's been used, as long as the desired effect is achieved and it doesn't look cheesy.

Now, he asked how to make a grainy type texture. The first thing that came to my mind was teh clouds filter because of the apparent randomness inherent within it. That doesn't mean run a clouds filter and put a brown overlay over it. And unless you have a lot of time on your hands or are doing purely out of joy, then handpainting each indentation and grain in the leather is ludicrous. The clouds filter is a good starting point that will give you something more to work with.

However, I want to add that I do see your point, but my argument is that it's not the tool that's at fault, it's the countless number of morons who overuse the tool and/or use it badly.

anyway, that's my rant for the day.

PS
(opens bottle of vitriol)...and another thing, since when did everything become so personal? Do any of you know DL personally? So if he is a little abrupt and callous, why should you give a fuck? Is his type of help the only kind available?

No. But he does offer very good help, so if you want help from him then you have to play his game. Simple, no?

And all this elitist talk is a load of crap. Do you know what the real problem is? The fact that all of this is lumped into one category. If you're working on pushing Photoshop to its limits and tweaking the living hell out of it, wouldn't you be a little offended?

To put it in perspective, say you build high performance engines. If someone comes up and asks you how to change their oil, it's a bit irritating. If, however, someone comes up and says, "Hey, I'm changing my oil and I've gotten this far..", it would at least show that some effort was put into it.

Now, this is not to say that you're lazy, but come on. It doesn't take five minutes to run a clouds filter and add a little color. At least then you'll have something to bring to the table.

And as far as attitude goes, what can you do? Grow up and deal with it. You know, one of the things I really liked about this forum was the no-nonsense attitude and the straightforwardness of its members.

I don't need anyone to sugarcoat things for me, and I really don't have time for all that either. Tell me exactly what you think. Really. I'm a big boy, I can handle it. You save a lot of time by cutting out extraneous bullshit.

The irony is that I'm usually a polite person and I really try to avoid offending anyone. But, I'm intelligent enough to know that I can't expect everybody to be like that....
(close empty vitriol bottle)



[This message has been edited by silence (edited 06-08-2002).]

Okay, got some leather here! Sort of a subtle texture, but maybe just what I need for what I'm doing. Critique away. Please forgive the cruddy stitch line around the seat.




bigger version


the artist formerly known as gemannihilate

[This message has been edited by Odd Cat (edited 06-08-2002).]

I like it. I'd add some creases just to 'liven it up', but it looks pretty realistig as a base.

The 'bead' does need a little cleanup around the upper left and lower right, but it's definitely on the right track.



[This message has been edited by Das (edited 06-08-2002).]

Yeah, that's looking like leather to me! Like Das said, it needs some touching up and possibly some wrinkles/creases but you're definatley on the right track.

Arrr, now that I can work with, nice start!

I'd have to see the rest of the image to make sure but I think you went to full black a little too quickly... There's usually some amount of reflected light on the front side, especially if it's in an outside environment. Say if this is sitting above a nice shiney reflective pertol tank then there'd be some light reflecting from the and hitting the underside. Always look for every chance you can to add stuff in that'll help descripe the object. In any event I'd find it hard to realistically render an image of anything that had almost white highlights that went to full black that quickly.

Oh, and that diffused reflection stretches a little to far to the lower right as well. Try cutting it back a bit before it meats the seam, should give it a little more depth. And the colour of that bit might look better if it wasn't pure white? What's it reflecting? Is it the sky? Maybe tinting it an ever so slightly amount of blue would work.

The perspective also looks a little off. Why is the right hand (foreground) corner thicker in height than the left (foreground) corner? That's assuming the seat is meant to be a uniform thickness...

These kind of covers are stretched across foam padding which means the seam line is usually pulled down around the edges slightly more. In any event there wouldn't be that much of a curve in the overall form of the object before the seam. There are also usually some stresses wrinkles around the curved areas of the seams. It's a bitch to sew covers with curved areas and not get even a minor amount of stress wrinkles.

You might also want to try out the noise filter if you want to make it a little more grainy.

[Side not on the other stuff said in this thread: maybe we should put some of that in the FAQ?]

Well, keep in mind that a) this little seat is not actually part of my final project, which is locked up tight in the Studio about 8 miles from here, and which I won't be able to access until Monday, and b) this was a quicky, intended mostly to show off he texture. So I didn't really put much time into making this seat look realistic, just making it real enough to see if the leather texture worked and made it "more real".

But the thoroughness of your comments is appreciated, Dracusis.

I'll work on adding more wrinkles. As it turns out, making this kind of leather is not too far removed from making your typical rock texture. Just takes a little intuition.


the artist formerly known as gemannihilate

I'll agree with all of Dracusis' comments.

I'd also like to reiterate that the environment is the key to what has to be done to make it realistic.

It's very difficult to get realism when working on a solid white background - I would recommend at least throwing a gradient or a color similar to what the finish work will have behind it for a better reference.

I look forward to seeing it with the rest of the image around it.

I'll be glad to post the final image when I'm done (that may be in a couple of weeks). So far it's going really well. Please note that you will not see our little bitch seat in the final product; this was just a quicky created to use as a tester. You may also be surprised at how small the leather area will be, for all the effort I'm putting into it. But it's going to be on a 34 by 22 inch poster, so I want it to be as nice as possible so the details come out in the print.

Right now I am equally pleasing and frustrating my instructor with all of the detail I'm going into. He's happy that I'm working so hard, but he's concerned about the time constraints.

And I'm taking the Certified Internet Webmaster test on Friday... sheesh! Lots of stuff going on.


the artist formerly known as gemannihilate

Looks like Drac and DL have you covered on the leather thing ,so I just wanted to wisk you luck on your CIW exam. Which track did you take ?
I passed the Designer final test in Jan. Piece `o cake.


Cell245

[This message has been edited by docilebob (edited 06-10-2002).]

You sure it was leather? Many bikes have vinyl, not leather.
Was it a Corbin?

I'm taking the CIW Foundations test. First cert test! I've been at Cert21.com pre-testing my brains out, and I'm taking Wednesday and Thursday off of work to study (test is on Friday). I've been taking a prep course at school for the test, but unfortunately the course is not very good, and I've been unmotivated. So I went ahead and signed up for the test to scare myself into studying.

Um, I can't be sure that the texture I'm looking at is really true leather. It's in a photo. And I can't say that I know what corbin is. But it's leather-esque, you know? The texture I made is good, maybe plus a few wrinkles. It should do the trick.


the artist formerly known as gemannihilate

The foundations test was the one I had the hardest time with, but it sounds like you`re studying WAY more than I did, so you`ll do fine.

With all the advances in Nauga genetics, it`s hard these days to tell Naugahide from real leather, eh ?

yeah, this test is a nasty one. I still have no clue about the OSI/RM. I intend to memorize it 30 minutes before the test and then forget it, hopefully forever.

I hate to think of all the naugas that have to die for us to have that naugahide...



the artist formerly known as gemannihilate

update: I passed the CIW Foundations! Yay!


the artist formerly known as gemannihilate

[This message has been edited by Odd Cat (edited 06-14-2002).]

Sweet! Congrats

I just read through the whole of this thread and by the time i got to the bottom i had forgotten what the hell it was about..

maybe its me being picky but to quote someone else in here "Airing dirty laundry" and taking over a thread in which someone is asking for help, to satisfy some ego bashing urge sucks, its happening a hell of a lot lately why?? look back at most of the threads that are flaming and it seems that most are because of the flaming going on in them...

odd cat i like ya leather like has been said the stitching could do with some work,but really nice...cant wait to see the final version if i can find it in amongst the crap

Congrats Odd Cat. Well done. The other two tests are a breeze compared to that one. It`s all down hill now..