Preserved Topic: leather (Page 1 of 2)

I'm rendering a motorcycle in photoshop for a school project, and I need a good leather texture for the seat. Anybody know of a good tuturial for this? It's that nice, kinda shiny type of leather, with a soft looking, loose grain (it's a seat, after all; we're not talking about rawhide or suede here!). Any help is much appreciated.

"They mostly come out at night. Mostly." - Newt, Aliens

If you own a leather jacket you could scan that. That's what I did for a similar project.

As a last resort, I might try to find a leather pattern somewhere that I can tile. But I would prefer to do it in photoshop.

I *hate* these questions.

Look at examples of the type of leather you want. See what makes it look the way it does.

Then go try to duplicate the look.

Then try some more.

Yup, a little more....

and...yeah...more....

Then come on back and ask questions about the parts that may be troubling you.


Guaranteed to work better than any cheesy piece of shit "leather texture tutorial" you will find. And, you may actually learn something.

DL-44, that's pretty insulting. First of all, I'm asking because I need to simplify this project. I am putting a great deal of detail in it, and I need it done by the end of this quarter, so there is a deadline involved. It's not that I'm scared of the work; I simply don't have the time to hand draw a leather texture, but at the same time I don't want to forfeit the texture if I can help it. Also, the searches I've done for a good tutorial haven't yielded anything productive. However, most of the time here, there are enough people with enough experience to help others out if they are stuck. Yes, a tutorial is a shortcut, but shortcuts exits for a reason. No, you didn't know that I'm forced to save time here, but I'd appreciate it if you didn't assume that I'm just lazy.

Secondly, you could respond in this same manner to almost anyone here who posts asking for help of any kind. How do I render a realistic item? Should I upgrade to Photoshop 7? Clearly, this is the kind of information we could all find somewhere else. This forum is for Advice and Questions according to the description, and that's what we're here for.

Sorry, I know this kind of thing often erupts into an argument instead of something productive, and I really don't want that to happen. I'm not here to pick fights. But I don't see the point in responding to a post if your response is, essentially, that I shouldn't be posting my question.

There. Now that I've been spanked, does anybody else have some advice?

[This message has been edited by gemannihilate (edited 06-07-2002).]

"Secondly, you could respond in this same manner to almost anyone here who posts asking for help of any kind."

Lol, but you see, DL-44 *does* respond in this manner to every post of this kind! =)

He's just being honest. If this is really a case of "usually i do it myself but this time i'm in a rush", then that's alright. But in that case, you're probably better off just searching google for a tutorial or texture that fits what you need, since that's basically what most of us would do anyway.

Personally, I'd imagine starting with something blackish in color, then making a layer and filling it with clouds, adjusting the levels in such a way as to just get curvy black lines on a white background (or vice versa), and then maybe add another clouds filtered layer onto that, but with a lot of transparency so it doesn't have as much effect. Then I'd merge the layers together, or shoot, i should be using channels for this, because the next thing I'd do is use it as a height field for the lighting effects filter. From there I'd see how it looks like. Heck, it might look like crap, but... you just gotta try whatever comes to mind for these things =)

I know, and I've seen that DL-44 has posted in this manner to a number of people. I'm just suggesting that there's a different point of view.

I actually thought about that clouds thing after I posted. Unfortunately, I have to spend most of my day away from Photoshop, so I haven't been able to test it yet. But I'll be leaving work soon, so I'll check it when I get home.

We all have deadlines gemannihilate, thats what makes our job fun

DL's correct very much correct in this case. Go home tonight and flip through a few magazines and try to create what you see. Practice for a few hours and then bring what you have to the table and we'll talk more. It's awfully hard when someone asks you to come up with some easy to follow three step tutorial to create a particular effect.

Personally I don't really know off the top of my head what this type of leather would look like, but I would suggest taking your first layer and draw out the basic shape and fill it with the color, in this case black, that you need. Then create another layer and add the highlights and shadows. See how that looks. You might need to add a grainy texture in there, depending how close the leather is.

Play around and lets see what you get.

-Jestah
Cell 277

Try this link, it might help:
http://www.merekatcreations.com/html/tutorials/leathermain.html

I agree with DL, but, again, nothing constructive comes from bickering. Take it with a grain of salt and don't dwell on it.

Now, since you need a texture instead of a straight out image, there are a few things you need to do first. Depending on your 3D program, you'll really want a 512x512 or 1024x1024 size image. Programs like these sizes very much.

Next, one of the cool things about the clouds filter is that it is tileable if you run it on an image that is 512 square or some multiple thereof (I think it will also tile 256 square but I'm not sure).

So, do the clouds filter, then play with curves until you've gotten the grain right. Add a bit of color, play with the blending modes, and you should be able to come up with a decent leather texture.

Conversely, there are some texture sights on the net if you really feel like cutting some corners.

Wow! That link's a goldmine of goodness rj. Thanks for that =)

I hate to say it but I'm going to. When you use the clouds filter it normally looks like you used the clouds filter. If your Prof knows Photoshop well he wont be happy if he can tell you used clouds. Mine wouldn't be.

There is nothing insulting in what I said, and there were no assumptions about your character made.

The simple fact is, quesitons such as "how do I make (insertobject)" are just very absurd quesitons.

You draw/paint/create/whatever these things by observing them, and taking what you have observed and applying it to your approach to the technique.

The process for creating realistic leather, a realistic cel phone, a realistic eye, a realistic pig's ass, are all the same.

Four basic aspects:

1) Form
2) Texture
3) Lighting
4) Color

Whatever you are trying to make, these things apply. The context in which the leather exists will determine what you have to do to make it realistic.

Which means that until you give it a try, and show us what you've got, there is little that is truly *constructive* that can be done for you.


If you find any of that offensive, quite frankly it is your problem and not mine. It's good advice, take it or leave it.





[This message has been edited by DL-44 (edited 06-07-2002).]

I'm sorry DL but that's a pretty shitty attitude. Not everyone has an eye for observing lighting and everyting that makes something what it is, and many people need step by step help in order to produce something they like. If you can't give any constructive help besides saying "look at it and paint it" then maybe you shouldn't answer at all.

If you are in such a hurry just get a photo of some leather.

and thats that.

Izzay

Get a big, giant peice of leather and take a photo of it. Then wrap it around the object. Thats what I did when I needed a metallic texture.


________________
counterfeitbacon

Why would you use a giant piece of leather to get a metallic texture?

Seriously, though, I can see DL's point about observing a subject then trying to recreate it in order to learn. If you understand what makes an object look the way it does, you can use that knowledge in any number of other ways.

However, it isn't the only way to learn. I mean, where would we be if anyone who ever tried to create anything had to teach themselves from absolute (and I mean _absolute_) scratch? Besides, in every Photoshop book I've seen (including the "Photoshop Classroom in a Book" I originally used), they don't teach by saying 'Filter A has effect B'. Instead, it teaches you by having you actually construct something tangible by using the subject of the chapter (paths, for example, or layer masks). A great deal of basic learning can take place in the construction of something very complex.

I'm not sayin' you're wrong, DL (mostly because you're not). I'm just sayin' it ain't the only way.

[This message has been edited by Wangenstein (edited 06-07-2002).]

funny.

I'm just going to work at it like crazy this weekend; turns out I can't get into the studio at school this weekend, anyway. Unfortunately, my computer at home isn't cool enough to do the whole project; it's a poster-size item, at 300 dpi. Major stuff. If I get some textures going, I'll submit them for opinions.

I am trying to render the whole thing in PS, because that is the assignment. Not trying to fake my way out of it, y'know?

By the way, sorry about any confusion the UserName change may cause. I've been meaning to change it for a while and just got around to it.


the artist formerly known as gemannihilate

Upon reflection, I think what I posted would probably come across as a flame, even though I didn't intend it as such. (It was intended as criticism of someone's posting style, but that's a very fine line)

I think I'll just delete it, to spare any ill feelings.



[This message has been edited by Das (edited 06-07-2002).]

Ummm... you?re doing this in a 3D-program right?

Why not just let the 3D program handle the effect. I mean, were talking about finished/buffed leather here. With the right material properties and a tiny noise bump you'd never know the difference, even upon close inspection. Any details like creases along the seams could just be modelled in. Finished leather it's really that complex. "Looks at shoe" Nup. Not complex at all.

Although because everyone with genitals seems to be commenting about DL's post:

You teacher gets paid to give a shit. DL doesn't.

Oh, and you'll always get a better response from people in here if you attempt something first. Especially concerning questions like this. Even if it looks like your dogs? piddle when you were aiming for grass, post it. Let people now where you?re at and where you want to go.

Eh.

Three people here have genitals? Glad I'm one of 'em...

My point is: not everyone responds well to the same method of learning. Some excel when left to experiment on their own, while others (myself included) prefer to see it done right at least once beforehand. While it might smack of laziness to some people, it's really simply a preference to learn by example.

And if DL really didn't give a shit, he could've shown it better by not posting in the first place, yes?

Eh, whatever about what DL-44 said. I was sore then, I'm not now.

No, I'm not using any 3D programs. This is all Photoshop. The main issue is it's kind of a wrinkly leather, like the kind you find on chairs. Like it is pictured here, especially on the back seat. Render clouds looks like the way to go; I will work on it this weekend, and post results for criticism/advice.


the artist formerly known as gemannihilate

its a free Asylum! If any of us ever feel that we cant post cos we might upset someone then this place is truly dead.

if ya cant stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.

The Asylum is all about honest criticism, advice, occasional pisstaking, etc. Thats why it is the Asylum!

Now stop being so childish, cos you all sound like a bunch of whiners,

Get a grip ppl.

I never said that DL shouldn't post if he's going to upset people. (We'd never hear from him again! ) I simply said that, if he really didn't care, he wouldn't have posted at all. Apathy doesn't make for heavy posting numbers. Maybe I should have made that clearer.

As for 'childish whining', I prefer to think of it as tit for tat. (Actually, I believe in 'tit', period, but that's a whole other subject. ) DL posted to instruct gemannihilate on how to go about learning to create a texture. In response, I posted to remind DL that there is more than one way to learn things. No whining involved.

(Um, that is assuming your post was aimed at me, VP. Otherwise ignore the whole thing.)

Hello! You have my pills... It's cold and there are wolves after me... - Grandpa Simpson

OddCat, after having seen that picture, I'ld say your best bet is straight-up Airbrushing. Start big and soft, then begin to narrow it down.

not aimed at any one individual, more at the collective. imho the very essense of the Asylum is 'free speech' and 'honest opinions' be they what you want to hear/read or not.

Equally can be said that if one doesnt like what they read, they dont have to respond!

DL has always as far as I can remember made posts that both make sense and are fair. Yes harsh perhaps, but we arent kiddies are we? In most posts DL offers the fundementals of any design, make an attempt, ask specific questions if you encounter problems, learn the tool, experiment, show us what you have so we have a point of reference from which we can make a determination.

enuff ranting from this ole asylumnite.

Leather, hmmm, get back to it



[This message has been edited by vogonpoet (edited 06-07-2002).]

Good enough for me.

Did you guys take a look at the link rj posted? I'm at work, so I haven't been able to delve into it, but there's a leather tutorial there that looks interesting, plus at least one hair tutorial I'm going to examine very closely!

synax - shitty attitude?

Nope.

Tried and true process that works for anyone willing to put in the effort (from my experience in this field...)

Of *course* people need help, and need instruction.

But the very basics of being able to graphically reproduce *ANYTHING* is being able to properly *OBSERVE* it.

See the point?

It's a rather simple one, and one I try to reiterate as often as possible.

What I said is that before coming and asking questions, a person should attempt their goal. Come here with an example of what you've got so far, and ask about the parts that are causing problems.

I'm a little confused as to where the "shitty attitude" or the "harshness" in this is?

I do see it as a little newbie-unfriendly, DL. Not trying to flame, but offering a counterpoint.

Suppose a total neophyte, who barely knew how to find the 'brush' tool, came here with the question:
"Hey, how do I do that 'cutout' effect I've seen on a lot of web pages?"

On this site, I'd expect posts like "Get some construction paper. Cut out a design. Look at it. Try to make an image like that. Observe. Experiment."

I don't think that would be helpful to a newbie (not saying you're a newbie, Odd Cat, talking generally here). They'd be more likely to get help from a site where someone pointed them to a tutorial on channels and layer masks. At least they'd know where to start. By following a tutorial on the cutout effect, they'd learn a lot about various Photoshop tools.

Observing reality and trying to replicate it doesn't really help if you don't know how to hold the paintbrush

I think a lot of the people here assume a full working knowledge of the tools of the trade, and that might scare off the people who just want to learn what the heck the 'curves' command does, for instance.

Das: making another counterpoint to your coounterpoint

Reading the manual is/should be the first thing anyone new to photoshop does. All the basic functionality is covered (and some advanced as well) in the manual. Since I have been at the Asylum, it was generally a place for more advanced PS users, who would/are willling to help out when and where possible, but for those type of questions where someone has already put forward some effort, is willing to share their attempt and point out where they are stuck wiht a certain effect, feature etc.

Asking for help, imho should be done when one is truly stumped, not cos someone is too lazy to make an effort or at least be bothered to learn the basics.

Like all tools, PS rests on a sound foundation of basic knowledge. It is a path that most of us have taken becuase we have a passion for creation and a fascination in PS's capabilities.

I have always tried to help out as much as possible, cos thats how I started out, by asking questions when I got stumped, but only when I was convinced I couldnt help myself. For that this place has been a blessing.

The uniqueness of here, is the amount (even though dimisnished) of 'actual' professionals (me not included) who are willing to help, however, as such, most proffessionals will help in a way that encourages ppl not hand feeds them.

My only point here is too respect the potentially awesome resource that the Asylum is and can be. Thats what makes this place 'better' than the average graphic forums (DBM, Eyeball, to name a couple)

Elitist? Yes it is. But from the elite you will get the best information and help if one is willing to eat some humble pie for the sake of ones own improvement.

Wow, I am full of it today! lol... ~now wheres me mop~

Doesn't sound like a counterpoint to me, more like an agreement and extension

"Newbies go elsewhere" isn't necessarily a bad thing, as long as we're clear that's what we want. DBM and such do have a slew of tutorials with the basics on channels and masks and such. (It is really hard to find a good tutorial on Curves, though. Curves are hard to get a handle on )

My point was just that the "do something before you ask" attitude will automatically exclude anyone who hasn't a clue how to start. By definition newbie-unfriendly.

Maybe the rote response to a 'does anyone know of a tutorial for ....' should be a link to DBM's tutorial page?

counter counter point:

if they havent got a clue, they havent read the manual then have they? heh, if they have read the manual and havent got a clue, then perhaps they should reconsider using PS and start out with MS Paint, MS Photoeditor, step up to PSP (doubtful they could handle the transition) and fianlly splash out on PS!

the truth hurts dont it? heheh

When the question is one such as "can you help explain Curves to me" then great, I'll give them a link to a fantastic tutorial at the GN on that subject.

When the question is "where can I learn more about 'x'?" Great, I'll try to offer what I can.

When the question is "how do I make 'this object'?" then it's a different story. You make 'that object' the same way you would make any object. And that's by learning the tools, learning some basic techniques, and OBSERVING the subject. And applying the basic concepts of Form, Color, Texture, and Light.

R'ingTFM is a good place to start if you *don't* know the basic tools.

Nobody is suggesting that "newbies go elsewhere" by any means. What I'm suggesting is that people put in the effort and do a little legwork before coming and asking for it.


And that's the advice I'll give to the person that doesn't know how to hold a paintbrush

And there's nothing harsh or shity about it. It's basic. Anyone who can't accept that type of outlook will never last in the graphic design field anyway. Compared to the real world out there, I'm a pretty damn friendly guy



[This message has been edited by DL-44 (edited 06-07-2002).]

Well, that is a little harsh, Vogon.

I read the manual for Photoshop, but I didn't have any idea how to do a cutout effect until I read a tutorial for it. Yes I read what masks and channels are, but I didn't understand some of the awesome tricks you can do with them until I'd gone through a few tutorials.

Photoshop isn't like simpler programs. Seeing an effect doesn't automatically imbue you with an understanding of what tools were used to create that effect. Saying I should have started out with MS Paint because I didn't have a clue how to do cutouts after reading what masks and channels are doesn't say much for your opinion of me. (So yes, the 'truth hurts').


DL, I think we're not connecting here. You say you'll steer someone to a tutorial if they ask about curves*, for example, but not if they ask 'how do I make this object'. I think most people new to photo editing wouldn't know what tool to ask about. When I first started correcting photos for exposure and color, I used brightness/contrast and hue/saturation. I didn't know that the best tool was curves.

I think if we don't want to be newbie-unfriendly, we have to admit that someone might not be able to make a credible attempt before asking. Even if they have RTFM. All depends on what they're doing.

Caveat: I haven't read a Photoshop manual since 4.0. It's possible that they do explain all the different little tricks you can do with channels and layer masks and such. If so, I'll shut my yap . I remember distinctly reading everywhere that 'you do that with channels' when I wanted to the 'cool stuff' with Photoshop when I first got it. The chapters on channels in the manual never gave me a clue of how to do most of the neater effects.

*thanks for the pointer to Steve's tutorial on Curves. That's the tutorial that finally gave me a handle on the things. I'd forgotten where I read it

of course it is harsh Das! lol, its a harsh world sometimes.

Knowledge aint cheap, it takes work, lots of work and effort, and many hours experimenting and trying different things.

If ppl want to be moly cuddled, and act like this stuff is easy, then I got no time for them.

Anyone who has a passion for this stuff, normally will have the intelligence and maturity to come to a place such as this and not abrge in demanding answers ( as has been the case) and also will show a little respect for ppl here who have 'served' there time , so to speak!

In conclusion, if someone (whoever it maybe) shows me respect, a sense of passion, a curiousity and willingness to learn, I will go out of my way to help in any way I can.

If however, they cant be bothered, why should I be?

Sheesh.

I am very pro-tutorial myself, because I have learned a lot from tutorials. I've probably learned most of what I know from tutorials. But I don't straight use the tutorials when I'm trying to achieve an effect; if I want to make metal now, I just do it, but I know how to do it thanks to tutorials. What I do now is better than the tutorials, but I may not have learned it otherwise. Tuts are cool, but only if they are a tool and not a crutch.

Normally I don't ask for tutorials here (I actually rarely ask for any advice at all), but my mind was on the deadline. I've already put several hours into gradients, dodge, burn, curves, and airbrushing on this project, and that's ok; it's going to be a damn fine piece of work and worth all of the trouble. I was simply trying to minimize my work here by asking for any tuts people knew about, and I'm sorry if it was perceived as a sophomoric thing to do. That wasn't my intention.

Having said that, I'm not sore at anybody, and I don't wish to debate over the right or wrong way to handle a question. I let DL-44 know how I felt about his response, and he let me know how he feels. That's all I feel is necessary between us. He can take what I said to heart, or ignore it, or dispute it. Bickering won't change that. That's not a criticism, that's just the way it is. I can do the same with what he said. And in the future (no bitchery intended in this statement), I can choose to ignore it if he posts something similar. A cat cannot be a dog; don't blame it for being a cat.

So everyone shake hands...

And I'll try to get something done tomorrow or tonight and submit it for criticism/suggestions.


the artist formerly known as gemannihilate

Hey Oddcat

Dont take most of what has been said here personally. ppl are just airing dirty laundry and technically it took over your thread (which it shouldnt have done really-oops).

Look forward to seeing what you come up with in the leather department!! (that sounds wrong!) heh

Sorry, Odd Cat. My "(not saying you're a newbie, Odd Cat, talking generally here). " remark was an attempt to be clear that I was talking about the general attitude on the board, not your post.

This thread has derailed, and what I've been considering as a discussion (possibly debate) is being referred to as 'bickering' and 'whining', so I'll just drop it.

Odd cat (didn't realize you were the same person at 1st...) - Most of what I've said after my 1st post was not directed at you, but rather in response to so many other posts about me.

None of what I have said has been meant to be 'harsh' or to belittle you, and I certainly didn't get the impression of you as a "newbie".

Simply stating a hatred for questions about making specific objects. It drives me crazy.

When I was learning how to use photoshop, I certainly didn't know the tools, or the power of certain things like curves, adjustment layers, channels, etc.

But I approached it the way I would approach any other media - not as "photoshop". Most of the concepts from traditional medium still apply in Photoshop, you just have strange and powerful tools to work for you.

My point of view is based on the idea that it should be approached with this mindset for best results.

{{edit: Dracusis - I feel I ned to clarify a bit more after reading your comment. I say these things precisely becuase I *do* give a shit. If I didn't, I wouldn't post at all. People have a very odd tendency to think that because you don't coddle people or kiss their ass that you don't care and you just say what you say for the sake of being rude.

"giving a shit" means speaking your mind and doing what you can to point people in the right direction. Many may dislike my manner, but the message is rather clear and very valid. I am also very 'pro tutorial'. But there are good tutorials, and there are bad tutorials. Good tutorials teach technique, show alternate methods of achieving things, speak about 'good work habits' and the like. Bad tutorials say 'ok here's how you make an LCD screen', 'here's how you make flaming text' 'this is leather' and so on.
}}

{{edit again - let me also take a moment to agree very wholeheartedly with VP. He makes many very valid points that are behind mny of the things that I have said but didn't quite come through in my posts.}}





[This message has been edited by DL-44 (edited 06-08-2002).]

DL: no hard feelings. Touch gloves and come out swin... I mean, shake hands. Seriously, you said what you said. I now take no offense; just got a little bit of my photoshop pride hurt at first.

Das, no problem. I just think some people may be taking things hard, and I don't want that. I'm only trying to clear the air a bit. One of the reasons I go to this board is because generally, people here don't come just for a fight. That's really different from most message boards, so I didn't want the thread to turn into a fight. Not trying to stifle discussion, though.


the artist formerly known as gemannihilate