Preserved Topic: Dual WIP (Warning: Graphically intensive)

This is something Izz and I have been fooling around with for the past little while. We wanted to see what would happen if we both tried to make a guy out of our imagination. We'd appreciate any C&C anyone has on this. (There are obvious flaws).

EDIT by IZZ!!!! Nax.... im tired of this big picture making me scroll... and i was wondering of dialup people are annoyed? If you wanna thumbnail it or bring it back no worries!

Big Bad Picture HERE! WOo!

[This message has been edited by synax (edited 09-18-2002).]

[This message has been edited by eyezaer (edited 09-29-2002).]

Red mud on his/her chin???

that buggers left eye is too big i think. hehehehe... I just noticed that that eye moves in almost every picture. where the devil should it be pointing?

hehehe... nice big pic there!

                                                           

[This message has been edited by eyezaer (edited 09-16-2002).]

ooooh, neat. I'm glad you removed Izz's chin from #4, looked a bit like a baby butt you know hehehehehe

shoot, not a lot to complain about as it's a work in progress, the line seperating the lips is just that. The left eye is a bit buggered. His right cheek got flattened a bit with that big patch of light where the cheekbone oughta be.

looks like fun =)


Jason

Great stuff you 2 - its looking good and comments would depend on what you are aiming for. As well as the fe touches to the left side of the face JKMabry points out I'd try to give the hair more attention (goatee and eyebrows). I like the way it is progressing and (I don't think I've said this before) - I really like the skull you did to kick things off.

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

ra!... ra!.... sis boom ba!

i (heart) w.i.p.'s. =)

Good job thus far fellas... I "second" the praise of starting with the skull.
Each of you has done some really key changes to keep this thing on track.
I'm sure you already know that this is going well.... so i'll shy away from the "you guys are god-like" comments..... and head on into the "mmm... nup.. i dun like that" category of comments. *smirk*

His left eye is whoopin' yer ass.
Synax made a really good change for the better with his last alteration.... but it's still off.
I'd also recommend changing the direction of his eyes... perhaps shift them to stare a little bit more to his left. Not much, though. If I'm not mistaken..... the eyeballs are copies of each other... and it doesn't look like that is helping your "cause".
The bottom lid of his left eye is a little screwy... that could be causing problems as well..... Try bringing it up just a tad.

His eye brows are off.
His left one is longer than the right, it would seem.
See how far towards the bridge of the nose, that his left one comes?...... now look at his right one.
I think bringing his right one in a tad (couple of pixels)... and pushing the other one back just a tad, might even things out. .... dunno.... just a thought.

It looks as though you guys are teetering as to whether or not to go heavy with the lines on his forehead. I'd tread lightly with that. His eyes don't convey the thought to me, that he'd have strong wrinkles in his forehead, judging by how far open they are.

That ear is as flat as a board right now.... but i don't think you need to be told that..... it doesn't look like you've made much of an attempt to flesh it out yet.

For a couple of "good comments" (even though i said i wasn't gunna do this)
izz-
* nice smilie faces on #2 ... =D
* good job with the bottom of the nose on #6.... it made a big difference
* nice choice to shut down synax's bushy eyebrow attempt from #3... =)

synax-
* great job giving the project some direction in #3
* very slick stuff on #7.... it's starting to pulse with some life now
* oustanding decision to stop that john travolta chin that izz tried to slip in there... =)


I hope you guys continue to post this, as it progresses.....
or to put it in the proper "wordage" (pun intended)... BANG ON!

Cheers fellas. =)

[This message has been edited by Michael (edited 09-16-2002).]

Thanks Michael! (and Emps and Jason!)

The eye is messed - we know. Izz has yet to pass on his next iteration so I dunno how that part is going.

Good suggestion on the eyebrows, Michael. I'm going to adjust them if Izz doesn't nab it first.

I dunno about the ear, it seems alright to me. I'd really like more opinions to see what's bugging people.

Thanks again guys!

I guess you both were thinking on David Bowie!

edit: Don't forget the green eye.

[This message has been edited by OlssonE (edited 09-16-2002).]

wtf?

bowie got one green one brown.

I see.

Hey Nax, you can work on it more if ya like. I will be a bit longer b4 i get to it. Leave the eye for me though. heh.

I knew the chin would get some second looks!

heh... the left eye does look like a copy... but i assure you it is not. if you look thur the progression it shifts every time. Please Give us more... what you said was great... what Else?

                                                           

[This message has been edited by eyezaer (edited 09-16-2002).]

[This message has been edited by eyezaer (edited 09-17-2002).]

Updated to show the next two iterations (8 an 9) As always, critiques and comments are welcomed.

Just a note: izz managed to fix up (for the most part) my bodged up eye job in 8, and I've *tried* to align the lips with the rest of the face in 9. Is it noticable/better?

[Edit: btw, I just noticed that I am involuntarily re-adding that dip-line to the mouth everytime izz removes it... sorry izz!]



[This message has been edited by synax (edited 09-18-2002).]

wow, synax... I love your sig- I originally thought it said "SWAT"- but I still love it a lot..


Code - CGI - links - DHTML - Javascript - Perl - programming - Magic - http://www.twistedport.com
ICQ: 67751342

stylish work you two!
can't wait till you get to the step of 'dirtying him up'...
..and can i suggest for that step that you scrape of this nancyboy's lipstick, and give him slightly drier lips?

I can't get over how well you guys worked together, the progression at each step is very impressive.
*clap* *clap* *clap*

Look at the nose... look at the eye brows.. look at the lips... i Think nax likes pink???

I am workin up a mullet now. I cant paint hair for anyting though. Next serve will deff look diff. Woot WooT!

Nax thanks for fixin that lip. Its about time we got his face bloody well lined up.

That ear is still as flat as some really flat doodad. Needs more metal. heh.

I think maybe we should start a new thread with out next pongs. That image has got to be heavy.

More More Please!

We are missin a couple of my photoshop mentors... *cough* We/I would really appreciate some imput about how to make this better!

                                                           

[This message has been edited by eyezaer (edited 09-18-2002).]

[This message has been edited by eyezaer (edited 09-18-2002).]

quote:

---

i (heart) w.i.p.'s. =)

---

you can always use my if ya need to

hey... slackers.

you've got our attention,
what the fuck.... get off your asses and post something.

no.

                                                           

well... Okay.

this is out last shot. Me and then Him.

help! what the heck should i do to that EAR?



                                                           

Pffft. Thats almost exactly like my hair.

BTW, do either of you have wacoms?

edit: he looks strange without eyelashes

[This message has been edited by InSiDeR (edited 09-22-2002).]

okay. that side burn is crooked... or no... maybe his jaw is to far back... his ear not tilted??? what the devil?

Nice eye liner Nax. The hair looks much better. It actually looks like hair now. still a bit of touch up... willl look swimmy.

You call that a mullet? i guess not.... grrr....

                                                           

wacom 6*8 *kissie* heh.

[This message has been edited by eyezaer (edited 09-22-2002).]

yah yah, blow me. He looks better with what eyelashes I gave him anyhow. I'll update the collage of iterations at the top of this thread tomorrow with the next two frames, then izz and I will silently pass back and forth the final frame and that'll be it.

Finis.

Image has been updated again with the final row. I think it's safe to say that izz and I have had our fill of this particular image and we're now done. The image may still suck, but hey, this was pretty fun.

Yay for collaboration painting

That looks great - as you say the addition of eyelashes (and other nice touches in the preceeding steps) really makes the picture much more real. Great stuff.

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

wow... were done??? are you serious?

Lets see a higher rez den yah!

                                                           

Well... hey guys.... thanks for posting this.... it was a real treat.
I can't decide if I like the finished product as much as I'd hoped.
I think a better variation of the image occured somewhere between alteration numbers 11 and 12.... but eh.... I'm bitchy.

Is there a chance that either one of you could take a bit of time and discuss what brushes and techniques you used for certain areas of the face and hair, so that we could see a bit more of HOW you were creating this image?

=)

I absolutly HATE that ear.

Sure Micahel. Um.... Discussion. How about if I dig up some 100% swatches and such? Be back it a bit.

I still dunno how we did the hair... I will let Nax talk about that.

I think I ran out of steam there in the end.

[This message has been edited by eyezaer (edited 09-29-2002).]

[This message has been edited by eyezaer (edited 09-29-2002).]

I declare it finished because I'm tired of working on it. Izz is welcome to keep working on it for however long he wishes. Who knows, I may pick it up one day and work on it some more.

As for techniques and the like: I'll dive into that tomorrow as the NyQuil is kicking in right now and I feel myself drifting off.

This was super fun though - thanks to those who were kind enough to take the time to make comments and suggestions and a BIG thanks to izz for taking some time to doodle around with me! Cheers!

This was a real treat guys. Nicely done.
Everyone can paint *beautiful people*, but this guy`s got some personality.

Looking forward to the complicated techie descriptions.

Ok I'm back from my stupor so let me try to explain how I did things.

? I never used textured brushes, unlike izz who seems to love them I just didn't like the look they were giving off, so I used round hard brushes at low opacities.
? As you can see izz and I started off the image with a nice little palette to the side - these were our base colors. Once we felt we didn't need them anymore, we ditched them and just used skin tones directly from the guy's face. No big secret there.
? Sometimes I'd whip out the dodge and burn tools to give him some shine or color variation. I tried not to abuse these tools (although I fear I used dodge abit too much).
? For the hair: I first strated out with large brushes to block in the dark and light areas and fill most of the hair. Then I moved down to an 8px brush to add the strands. I don't like using 1px brushes, so I didn't. izz on the other hand... Dodge and burn were used on the hair as well. Go figure.

That's basically it. We just used the paintbrush for this guy and it was all basically on one layer. This guy was fabricated from our combined imaginations. I didn't use any reference pictures (except for the ear) and I dunno if izz did or not. I suppose it helps that I have a mirror right next to me so I can just look over when I'm stuck. There's probably parts of me in that guy

If anyone is interested in seeing the full resolution of any one of those frames, just say so and I'll post it here. Hopefully izz will make a post and offer some more insight into what techniques he used.

Edit: forgot info about the hair!



[This message has been edited by synax (edited 09-29-2002).]

give me some of your medicine friggin garr..... *glups down nasty red stuff*

*conk*

so this guy is sized down a tad.............. what size did you guys work on him at?

Original rez is 1000x1000. We were working at 1:1 but just never posted an original res because it's too big for the asylum.

Post Post Post Post!!! Medicine Good! Weeeeeeeeeeeee!

Just the last one. actually i worked on it at 200%. Ninny! heheheheehe.

I usually paint really ruff and then smooth it out later... but when ever i painted this doobie really ruff Nax always smoothed him out for me. heh. Thats one reason I used texture brushes. I also was just experimenting wit dem... prolly used em a little more than needed.

Photo Ref? umm.... I think I used a pic of me for the nose, but that nose dont look at all like mine. I cant really remember. I used the mirror a bit too.

Mostly we just tryed this and that till it looked almost right... we talked about it a little too... like "ya know, i think his mouth is crooked" or "That *** **** **** **** **** EYE!" or "why do you keep doing that?"

so what was the question?


[This message has been edited by eyezaer (edited 09-29-2002).]

I certainly wouldn't object to having the full size version posted.
You guys have done a great thing here, and there's much to be learned from all this.

Synax... when you said that you were using round brushes at low opacities....
...how low of an opacity are we talking about here?... 10% ?.... 20 % ...... 50 % ??

Did you guys continue to paint on one layer?....... as you added parts did you flesh it out on different layers... and then merge them?
Did you ever flesh something out... and then, in order to bring more life to it, paint on a layer above the pic... setting the layer to a low opacity, like 10% or something, so that transitions could be more smooth?

Did you run any filters at the end of things?... ie. the sharpen filter?... or are we seeing this product after pure paint?

Once again.... great job... and I'm glad you've exapanded in explaining your methods....
I just like asking questions. =)

Okay, When I got the PSD from Nax I would usually start painting on a layer right above the original. Before we swapped psd's we would flatten them... until we stated to paint hair. The hair layer was never merged down.

So if I painted something that was too bold I would hit it with the eraser lightly... or if it was not bold enough I could duplicate the layer. I only used my wacom with pressure sensitivity. I don?t recall using any filter 'cept the "paint nose" and that one sucks.

Sometimes we wrote notes on the image... Nax didn?t like it when I flattened the image after the notes though... he had the great idea of writing notes on a separate later which we did after this.



That eye was evil and still is. I once suggested that maybe that eye was correct and the other eye was wrong... but eh... that didn?t hold up in court.



well? I started to add some subtle creases around His right eye... but they got lost in the mix eventually.
They way I smoothed out his face [when ever I did try to smooth it] was to use a soft brush at low opacity [just not pushing hard on the wacom] and keep my other hand on Alt. Grab a color here [with the paint brush selected the alt button acts as a temp dropper tool very nice], and paint a bit... grab a color... paint a bit. The blur tool just wont work at that high a rez.

I killed the resolution of dis next one... but here goes.



Any more questions??? Be glad to try and answer them!


[This message has been edited by eyezaer (edited 09-29-2002).]

Can we see the hair at full rez as well?

Izz - what textured brushes did you toy with?... and what conclusions did you make from them? Will you continue to use them in future works?

The answer really should not surprise any one who knows much about painting. The output comes mostly from the skill level, not the tool.

I used the brushes that came with Photoshop for the face. I think they are good if used in moderation and with loving care. I really had not touched them until after reading DarkGardens eye painting tutorial deal.

I read many tutorials on hair... but came to the conclusion that a tutorial was not gonna make me paint hair better. So I handed that off to Nax. Just gotta practice that. But! the tutorials did say to make brushes... Like this here! So I tried that for the hair and eh... Used in moderation with a lot of practice and other brushes, they can be of help.

Nax, can you pic up on the hair when you awake from your stupor?

[edit] yalp, I will continue to use them. Most likely at high resolutions then size down. They break up the soft smoothness of the paint/air brush.

[This message has been edited by eyezaer (edited 09-30-2002).]

To answer your questions, Michael:

I usually kept my brush opacity at 25% - but sometimes I would jack it up to 50% when I need to really block areas in.

Hmmm, I did not know that izz painted on seperate layers (except for the hair) I just painted on one layer the whole time (except for the hair, again).

And no filters whatsoever. All paintbrush with a dash of dodge and burn, here and there.

Again, there wasn't much to doing the hair. I stayed away from textured brushes and 1px brushes and just went with a 8px round brush. I block in my areas first, then start drawing out the strands.

I must appologize for my shitty explanations - I'm quite under the weather right now. I'll answer any questions anyone has though - no problems there. I like answering questions

Full rez final frame:

mmm.... well.... oustanding job both of you.
Well.... you've answered my questions, and I'm bone-dry for what more to ask from you... (with the exception that i hope you guys work together again, and let us watch the creation)

Hopefully we can input all of this into a FAQ for people to learn from.

"I stayed away from textured brushes and 1px brushes and just went with a 8px round brush. I block in my areas first, then start drawing out the strands."

How`d you do that ? It looks alot smaller than 8px. Draw them out with what ?

Really cool you two, Thanks for sharing this.



"Life is pleasant. Death is peaceful. It's the transition that's troublesome."
- Isaac Asimov

DB - I'm guessin' that an 8px brush, set to 25% will stay pretty thin when light strokes are made on a wacom.

DB: What he ^^ said and also, izz used the complete opposite technique - textured brushes & 1px brushes. So you're probably looking at some of the hair he did Like the goatee for instance (the later versions of it anyhow).

Ah-HA ! It`s a wacom thing. Never used one, so I didn`t think of that.
Thanks.

the ear lobe is very very wrong

thank insider, but how do i fix it???

I have asked at least once b4... and eh? DarkGarden? Help please!

what exactly is wrong with the ear lobe?