Preserved Topic: cat painting

I've been practising painting fur more and used the wolf walkthrough from this site on a cat picture.

Here's my painting.

Does the fur look more realistic? I'm getting more used to the brushes now and it's becoming more fun to paint!
I read that you're not supposed to sample colours from the picture you're painting. I still do that and should probably learn how to "mix" the colours myself. :/

Comments?

Edit: Here's the original picture: cat





[This message has been edited by fenja (edited 01-13-2003).]

Er....

Looks Photorealistic...gonna leave the final judgement to the likes of DG, because know way could i give ya advice on this.......Way outta my league

fenja: Good tutorial there (I'll throw it into the FAQ). Could we see something you've done from scratch as I really can't tell the difference between your painting and the photo (which has to be a good thing in some ways....)?

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Emps

FAQs: Emperor

Something I've done from scratch?? What do you mean?

Fenja can you show me few screen shots of your animals in progress i would love to see how you paint this stuff, i am trying to do a polar bear and i am having a hard problem even with one hair colour type.

thanks tom

fenja: Ahhhhhhhh the squirrel

I must be going nuts

~runs away before the Pun Police arrive~

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Emps

FAQs: Emperor

Oooh! Is that what you meant too Emperor? I show step by step pictures? Sure, I can do that! I want to paint a rabbit next!

waw a bunny wabbit, whats up doc, dont forget his carrot

fenja: While step by step pictures would be cool (esp. if it helps Tom with his polar bear - which you must share when it done by the way) I was just a little lost for something to say about the painting. It is very good but it looks so like the photo I have trouble grasping the point but as practice for other furry paintings..... Well that seems a worthy aim and keep them coming. Its a tricky thing to do and our how to paint fur FAQ is looking a little sorry for itself

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Emps

FAQs: Emperor

Fenja.. I think Emps just dropped one of his famous subtle hints, Like while ya making those step by step pictures, could you add some text and explain how ya did this, then post it in the FAQ,...it would be a great tutorial (is that right Emps )

tomeaglescz: Well I never!!! Something like that was never on my mind

However, now the subject has been broached you can find the fur FAQ here:

:FAQ:

although we already do have a mini-tutorial here:

:FAQ:

its more geared to fur on cuddly toys and I think people might also be looking for realistic animal fur

Anyway food for thought - no pressure

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Emps

FAQs: Emperor

see i told you, he says all these nice things and then drops a little hint !!!

tomeaglescz: You're twisting my words

Look I said this:

quote:

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no pressure

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and I meant it (for now).

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Emps

FAQs: Emperor

This tutorial is good too: http://www.gorblimey.com/tutorials/fur.html

No he meant you write a nice tutorial, not link to one . Don't believe the pressure thing, he's the master of the universe, he can take away your black pills, he can withold your shock treatments, and whats worse he does it with a smile, i know....trust me....

tomeaglescz: I can turn you all inside out with a casual thought if I so wished

fenja: All resources greatly appreciated You've clearly got a knack with the fur thing and if you have any thoughts, insights, links, etc. then its all good

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Emps

FAQs: Emperor

I know what he meant, but I just wanted to show another good tutorial to put in the FAQ. I'm not sure if I'm good enough to write a tutorial yet. I've only been doing this for a couple of days. I'm here to learn by you guys! But if you give me more time and let me practise more, I'll see if I can make another fur tutorial. But it feels weird to do one since I'm still new at this and I know there are people here with more experience than me!

okay... fenja..
can you clear a few things up for me here...
You said that you were sampling colours directly off your photo reference...
I'm assuming you are painting directly on top of the photo reference?... or is the photo ref completely seperate from the file that you're painting in?

i'll give thoughts and comments a bit later after we've cleared up the "method".


FAQs n' Bits: Michael

Michael, I have the photo I want to paint beside my painting. But to get the right colours I use the eyedropper tool on the original picture and then use that colour on my painting. Then yesterday I this on Socar's page:

"This is mostly for digital painters, but also goes for traditional painters who use a lot of photo reference: Don't sample colours directly from photographs. Photographs often distort colour and flatten it out, and if you use exactly the same shades in your painting, any problems that existed in the reference photo will carry over into your finished work. If you're going for absolute realism, you should probably aim for BETTER than photo quality--sharper colours, cleaner transitions, and no lens flares...absolutely NO lens flares!"

So that's why I wrote that I should learn how to get the right colours myself!

quote:

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I've only been doing this for a couple of days.

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I've been practising my painting technique for about 6/7 weeks now and couldn't come up with anything close to that quality.

Funny thing is, like tomeaglescz I'm also trying a polar bear and have been having varied success.

Like Emps (and probably most others here at the Asylum) i'd love to see a tutorial from you. I really admire your work and the fact that you've only been doing this for a couple of days just makes me sick

Keep up the good work

[This message has been edited by Nolp (edited 01-13-2003).]

fenja: Yes really take your time (I was largely just pulling Tom's leg there) - it is very impressive that you have picked this up so quickly - you must have a good eye for this I have dropped links to your 3 threads into the fur FAQ and some of the links you've dropped in. Should prove useful.

You are right to be wary of sampling the colours directly - DL and/or DG had a thread a while ago about the use of colours in paintings and related matters. Anyone got the link? I believe there was a cube or something in there. I should really have dropped it in the FAQ for future reference

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Emps

FAQs: Emperor

you inspire me fenja i must say

i did a portrait of my cat last night but hell its no where near that good

http://www.gurusnetwork.com/work/

I won't side step it like Emps does. Fenja, check out that link. It will give you a bit of an intro as to what we would be looking. The GN is a big site project of the Asylum, any and all skills are wanted. You should look at giving it a shot.

krikey that's good!

Make bigger

Jason

Thanks for the comments! I'm so shocked! I feel I still have A LOT to learn and I'm glad you like what I've done so far!
I uploaded a bigger version of the cat painting here.

Very nice, fenja. Well done.
Looking forward to seeing more.

Thanks! I was going to show more as I get better, but I don't really see the point anymore. Nobody wants to help me. As I said earlier, I am here to learn. I'm sorry that I'm such a quick learner. I just did what most of you have said in earlier posts: practise, practise, practise. Then show what you've done. I do that and "some people" think I'm cheating. It's not fun. I'll practise more and see if I get good enough to do a fur tutorial (if you still want it). Then I'll look for another board.

Fenja: I know what you are feeling, there are those that blame you for cheating, but I do not think you are cheating. That is the other person showing their jealousy. I love the work that I have seen from you so far, you are a fast learner and practice is always good. The biggest thing is to take the critiques here, but do not take them too personally. Learn from the critiques here. There are others that will help you out, but half also comes from your own discovery too. We all here like to help others with their work including you. Keep up the good work. We learn off of each other here. If you have anything to contribute, feel free. You have a gift.

Also on a personal note, I would love to see more of your work here, you have inspired me to take a closer look at the work that I do. Do not get discouraged, you are really good.



The programmer's national anthem is 'AAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH''

Wolfen's Sig Site

fenja: There isn't very much criticism we can give you when you have clearly 'got it' straight off the bat but if you keep working on things and showing them then rest assured we'll let you know where the flaws are

We can't win Eithe we are accused of critiquing too much or too little.

If you want suggestions then here are mine (some partly touched on already):

1. Try and make it less photorealistic - clearly you have the skills to do that but if I wanted to look at a photograph then I would. I much prefered the large pcture because I could see the brush strokes, for example.

2. Play with the lighting on things - that is always an interesting challenge.

3. Play around with your style - you seem to have the realistic look working for you so try a more impressionistic approach or a more minimal one.

Basically experiment and play and keep posting your work and we'll keep throwing in thoughts and ideas.

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Emps

FAQs: Emperor

I have really been enjoying what you have been posting here. I wish more people posted such quality work more often!

and cheating? err.... I dont... see anybody calling you that...? Mostly I see people wanting to see how you paint. You have madd skills there, and I, along with them, would really like to see some step by step work to see how ya work.

And as far as c&c, for some reason, paintings around here dont get alot. I dunt really know why, but if ya do a WIP... people just like to watch.

                                   

that is pimp shit you are awsome man how u learn?

While my skills are nowhere near yours (mine lie in different areas entirely), here are some things that I noticed...

1. Your proportions are *slightly* off. Mainly the nose (the space between the eyes) is too wide.

2. Notice that the photo has lots of tiny little spots between the hairs that are almost completely black. You mimicked these, but yours don't contrast as much, which makes the fur seem thinner or flatter. This is mostly true under the eyes, with the transition from the white to the colored fur - some of the white fur is supposed to be in *front* of the colored fur, I think, not just all blending into it.

3. The colored parts of the eyes don't look smooth enough. They need slightly less variation.

Very good job though.

aight doobie, I painted on his snaaz for a bit. The major problem you have here is the lack of depth. the furr on his snaazzoot is mostly the same. no high lights... and the pink bit of the snaaz was a bit flat... also i think the eyes can stand a bit more depth...



I doodled on it... eh... grab that and the original photo and your painting and styk them all in a PSD, and flip layers on and off to see what i did and how yours compares with the Photo.

Really great work there... yer almost done with that one. Just more deep depths and hi highlights.

Hope dat helps yah!

                                   

quote:

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We can't win

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Amen, brother. Tell them it needs work, they whine. Tell them they did a nice job, they whine. I just don`t get it.
All I`ve seen here is congratulations, and good things. A few asked to see how you did it. We like to see how others work. It helps everyone.

In short, if you can`t handle the comments in this thread, I believe wholeheartedly you`ll not like too many other boards, either.

Thanks Wolfen!
And Emperor, Slime and Eyezaer, that is what I wanted! Someone to take a closer look and tell me what I should work more on. I'll take your advice and try to improve it!

quote:

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In short, if you can`t handle the comments in this thread, I believe wholeheartedly you`ll not like too many other boards, either.

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I think you misunderstood me! I don't have a problem with the comments in this thread. They are very positive and encouraging.
But I was hoping for more advice from the people who really knows how to paint! I don't post a painting if I know there are things I can do better. I was hoping for more help after I've done my best! That is the only way I can get better.

Sorry things like

quote:

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I do that and "some people" think I'm cheating. It's not fun.

....Then I'll look for another board.

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make it sound like, well...

my apologies for misunderstanding.
I`d like to reiterate that I think you`re very good for someone who just started and would like to see more of how you work.

Oh, I was referring to Michael's comment:

quote:

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I'm assuming you are painting directly on top of the photo reference?... or is the photo ref completely seperate from the file that you're painting in?

i'll give thoughts and comments a bit later after we've cleared up the "method".

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I might be misunderstanding him, but I felt he was saying that I was cheating. He hasn't given his comments (which I was looking forward to since I know he's very good at painting.) after I explained what I meant by sampling colours from the original photo and that I wasn't cheating.

But thanks again, I'll continue practising and I'll hopefully be good enough to do a WIP soon.

Fenja, i know michael wasnt accusing you of cheating, but two different methods need two different ways to help, by clarifying ya technique, he would have been able to choose a way to help you.

Me personally i love the bigger version, it allows me to see the amount of work that went into the image. There aren't that many here that can paint like you can when it comes to fur, thats probably why the hints and tips havent come thick and flying. You have a great talent.Just remember english isnt always a persons first language here, so misunderstandings based on text can and do oftenm happen here. Listen to the guys that offer help, they are really top notch.

Now get on with that bunny wabbit.


great work
tom

Really, really nice work there.

The only comments I can offer would be to try painting it again without sampling any of the colours. Because by sampling the colours your also getting the tonal values you need. After you've got them the only bits left are the texture and placment of the paint itself, which you seem to have down pretty darn well. Doing it without sampling anything will force you to think a lot more about the colour and tones that go into the image.

In a way I would kinda consider sampling from the photo a form of cheating, depending on what your trying to achieve that is. On the other hand, this is a darn good example of the advantages of working in a digital medium. I bet there are many oil painters out there that would kill to be able to mix the exact same colour of paint from their reference photo. The same goes for rinsing brushes, I always sucked at keeping my red brushes for only red paints, but that was mainly cause I was piss poor and really didn't have enough brushes for the colours I was using. But in PS it's a simple and clicking a different swatch.... Bah, now I'm just ranting....

However, if your doing this kind of thing to get better at painting si-fi type stuff that you can't sample from then, in this case, your kinda shooting yourself in the foot.

Nothing like coming home from a long day of work to read this sort of tripe.

Thankyou tom...
You handled that much better than I planned to.

fenja- listen to tom's advice about my previous post, and then we can avoid me being rather annoyed with a thread that I had envisioned greater things out of.
And although I didn't want to get into the whole ordeal, I feel I've not addressed all the issues unless I first say, that your comments in regards to my post are simply, just crap.
Unfortunately, as I've mentioned in many other threads, computer related things aren't going all that smoothly as of late, so I'm a bit pre-occupied with plenty of other things at the moment. Popping in and out of the Asylum and other sites that I regularly visit, I'd still like to give a decent effort, which involves possibly not coming back to something until I have adequate time to address it.
"Method" is something I often put in quotations.... as is "style"...... both for a myriad of reasons. Sit down and think about everything those words encompass, and it'll just *seem right* to put them in quotations most of the time.
I'll save my detailed philosophies for another discussion.

If I thought you were cheating, I would have said..... "I think you're cheating."
The fact of the matter is, I had immidiately brought both your image and the photo into PS to do a quick comparison while I looked it over a bit more critically prior to my original post.

All that said, I find the larger iteration much more appealing to my senses.
While I find it more appealing.... it still draws out many more questions.
Such as...
why did you choose to paint the left side of the pic out of focus, like it was in the actual picture?..... why not just paint the damn thing?
Don't get me wrong here.... Macro bits are a very cool thing, and I find myself continuously intrigued by them.... but with something that you've gone to great lengths to promote realism within, why short-change yourself by pawning the thing off like a silly photo?
Izzay was correct on a number of things.
The common problem with many of us here, is that we don't do well in the "depth" department when you break down our "styles".
The large version certainly screams "FLAT!".... but is absolutely nothing to lose sleep over while you're in the early stages of getting in-tune with painting.
I'm a bit curious as to whether or not you physically controlled your stokes.... or if you utilized pre-set stroke lengths. I'm leaning towards the latter.
I feel like you bailed out on the right eye and didn't pay it much attention.
In comparison, the eye on the left, makes the right eye look like shit.

Transitioning between colours of fur isn't easy.... but I would have liked to see some stray strokes in there. Don't feel binded by a photo... that's one of the problems with using them as well. People get hung up tryin' to make it look like the damn photo, and forget about everything else.
While Slime brought up some very key points..... I have a slightly different take on it....
I think the spacing of the eyes is okay.......... perhaps just a smidge too far apart.... however.... the whole issue is created because of the "angles" of the face.
The nose and mouth doesn't flow with the rest of the painting.
Or of course.... you could say that the rest of the painting doesn't flow with the nose and the mouth..... either way........... the angles are off.
Eyes and presumed position of the head would indicate a straight angle at us for the most part.... with a slight off-set to the left.
However... the nose and mouth suggest more of an angled feel to the left. It's subtle... but it's throwing things off and hurting the overall piece in my opinion.

You've received plenty of pep-talk comments, and I'll add that I'm certainly impressed at the quick pick-up of these things.
A few suggestions is to NOT paint from a photo for your next piece.
I cannot stress that enough.
It would seem you have a lovely eye for critically looking at things....
don't waste your time with photos...... ... do a painting of your foot if you have to.... but stop with the photo nonsense... and challenge yourself.
Don't pick colours from the photo.... and please.... experiment with colour. Give things a harsh lighting that you may not even think will pan out in the end.
You'll surprise yourself.

And in regards to the chatter about posting WIP's....
Izzay is right....... for some reason, they don't get much attention around here. Do 'em anyway. Like he said... people like to watch....
and of course...... some of us like to post.

Cheers,
keep at it.


FAQs n' Bits: Michael

Thanks for taking the time to write all that! I just wrote a long reply here and then my computer froze. Anyway, I just wanted to apologize for my reply up there. I was so nervous to start posting and when I saw that my post was ignored while other people was getting help, I just couldn't understand what I was doing wrong.

I really appreciate the help I've been getting now and I'll stop painting using photo references and start painting things around me instead.

The other thing to take into account is that many of us just do not have painting skills, we work loads on photo manipulations, and interface development. As a grand number of the people here are web designers. There are a ton of really exceptional artists here, howerver, by and large there numbers are small in comparison to the huge population of the asylum.

I am sure that when a lot of the inmates see you work they are by and large awe struck. As I know for one I have not even attempted anything of that nature. The critsisms will come.

Another issue is that you are so new here, we have not seen a lot of your work so it is very hard to know exactly where you are skill wise, being new to something normally brings a fragile ego with it, and even though we are critical we tend to go softer on those who are new. Why demolish a good piece of work, by a skilled artist when there is a chance the artist will stop working, and abandon all hope.

If you see threads by some of the other members who have been here a while, we have a feeling for how they take critism. Micheal, DB, VP, Weadah, DG, DL-44 when they post something you will notice that it is not long before critics come in catching every flaw in their work. We do this because we know that this is what they desire, and we could completely rip their work into constructive little pieces and they won't get depressed about it, will not complain, but instead will be inspired and will go on and create version 2 which addresses all the comments of worth to their work. Sometimes they will even say, "No" to the comments and keep the work as is, because it is what they were aiming for.

When you post a picture you should be completely clear on what you are looking for. When I post things I tend to ask that you completely destroy the work picking apart every little piece of it. Which in my case tends to completely invalidate my work, but I do get better in little steps, and that is what I need.

You should post more and work more, and you will be pulled into the Asylum Family, and you will really start to improve. There is in my opinion no place better to go than here, you have some 500 active people willing to pick apart a work you have created at the drop of a hat. It is a great place to be, you just have to give youself some time to fit into this enviornment.

Above and beyond my little rant. What is your next project? What do you have in mind? What is your inspiration? What do you hope to achieve through you work?

WarMage, I haven't done anything since my last reply here bacause I've been busy with other things. But I have been thinking about how I can get better at this. I used to draw a lot when I was younger but stopped when I was around 14-15. I started to draw again a couple of months ago since I used to love it so much, but it was more difficult than it used to be. I think I should practise that more and maybe scan some sketches and paint them in Photoshop. My mouse is so shakey that I can't draw properly with it. When I made those animal paintings I had to use a large brush to get the shape right. So maybe drawing some sketches on a paper and then paint them in Photoshop would be easier. Or maybe I should buy a wacom tablet? I still have a lot to learn about colours, so I'll do that next.

I don't know about my next project. It's animals and nature I want to paint. But maybe I should learn how to paint simpler things first and don't use photo references as Michael said.

I think I'll do all this by myself and then come back here later when I've learned the basic stuff and then show you paintings I'm doing and ask for advice.

awww i wanted to see the bunny wabbit

It's really too bad, but I believe one of our local painting 'gods', named Weadah, is still missing in action, isn't he?

hehehehehe

TP yupps weeds has been MIA for ages