Preserved Topic: My newest web site design...

First, I would like to thank the staff for being here and for building a great website.
Second, using all the resources I have found on the net I have built a new website for my Game Mod Making Group, The United Mod Makers.
I would like some input on its quality and see what people think of it.
Thanks again.

Also, could someone please explain what I have done wrong in my sig...

CK
clkuepfer@earthlink.net
DROPZONE


[This message has been edited by CK (edited 06-09-2000).]

Dead link. You don't need tags to make a link here. Just write the URL.

You were just forgetting to close the [ url ] tag with [ /url ]

DROPZONE

Peter



ICQ:# 10237808

the metal-style looks great :-) but take up too much space.

after enlarging the browser window your content disappeared (page turned to empty-black)
reloaded it to get it back and, your mouseover buttons are missplaced in ns4.7

cu, tea

Yeah I didn't build the site for NS. I needed to use an iframe for the content and do not know how to get the same effect for NS. I included a link to DL IE and mentioned that you need IE to view the page.

CK
[email]clkuepfer@earthlink.net[email
[url="http://dropzone.roguespeardatabase.com"]DROPZONE[url]

your site almost the same in both ie and ns
its only the missplacement of the mouseovers.

you could fix it easely.

maybe it helps look at how id did with my menus? http://www.tea.ch/hotel-seepark/

good night.

oops, found javascript errors on contacts.html page
at line 34 or 35 "document.imageflip has no properties."

cu, tea

thats odd. About 15 people in the chatroom i frequent cant see the iframe in NN. and noone has gotten any javascript errors.

CK
[email]clkuepfer@earthlink.net[email
[url="http://dropzone.roguespeardatabase.com"]DROPZONE[url]

netscape doesnt support iframe, which is why netscape users cant see it.

hell yeah! who cares if it doesn't work in netscape, just give those dumb bastards a link to an IE download... sheesh.

i'm not even going to bother looking at your page.

cheers.mikey.milker

Ok well maybe I need to restate my purpose for the original post.

For clarification the website I would like feedback on, http://umm.roguespeardatabase.com,
is not viewable in Netscape. The site was not built for NN. I would like some feedback on its graphics. The code has given none of my visitors or any of the United Mod Makers team any errors in IE. So I really don't need any feedback on the code. TY

CK
clkuepfer@earthlink.net
DROPZONE

"now remember mikey, if you don't have anything nice to say..."

word to gob, i don't get down like that.

cheers.mikey.milker

do NOT tell me which browser i *have* to use. your job as a designer is to make it accessable to the greatest majority of users. if you cant do that, you need to get out now. as much as 40% of viewers out there are using netscape. you just turned off those people to your site. good job, you deserve a pat on the back. linux people DONT have ie available to them.

you have horizontal scrolling at 800x600. i have to scroll down to see most of your menu.

when you come to put your site up for review, the whole kit 'n kaboodle is under the microscope, not just the graphics.

wellll....

ie5 & ie4 account for 78% of the browsers used on the web... (so says echoecho.com 6/00).

nevertheless, while it's convenient to ignore 640x480 resolutions.. you seriously can't bail out on whole browsers and still expect to be taken seriously.

cheers.mikey.milker

But, considering the source of that data is "thecounter.com", just how valid is that data?

Thecounter.com only has a 32% share of the counter market, I believe, sooooooo...

Not what I'd call particularly all encompassing and valid.

well, american tv ratings are decided by 1200 families only.

'Not what I'd call particularly all encompassing and valid.'

32% of the market is a pretty good portion to use as a sample... find me something that is better, hehe.

cheers.mikey.milker

Keep in mind that these counters measure hits. They're not even as accurate as the Nielson ratings.
If 80% of all browsers in use are NS 2.0, but NS 2.0 is only used by little old ladies who only browse one or two sites on Sundays, the counters will incorrectly show NS 2.0 as being a very small portion of the installed base.
Extreme example, but you get the idea.

Unfortunately, there isn't any really good measure of how many people are using which browser. Use the counter-based statistics if you wish, but keep in mind that they're probably not very accurate. If they said that version 3.x browsers were no longer in use, for example, I'd still leave an option on professional sites for 3.x browsers.

[This message has been edited by Das (edited 06-09-2000).]

well, i don't care if 80% of people use ns2 or whatever.. i'm going to appeal to the portion where my largest amount of requests come from.

but i just checked my domain usage and it spit out this...

#reqs: browser
-----: -------
462: Mozilla (compatible)
151: Netscape
63: Mozilla/4.5
27: Mozilla/4.7
23: Mozilla/4.74
21: Mozilla/4.04
8: Mozilla/4.61
7: Mozilla/4.72
1: Mozilla/4.75
1: Mozilla/4.73

so now i'm really confused, and i'm going to just make text-only web pages for now on.

cheers.mikey.milker

Well, obviously your target should be the majority. I'm just saying don't block others.

For example, my plan for my site (nope, not up yet) is to use DHTML for 4.x browsers and plain tables for everyone else. I'm specifically not putting in rollovers and other JavaScript for 3.x browsers, because they aren't a significant part of the audience. They still get to view the site, though, in the simple table-only form.

Nobody gets blocked from my site for having a 'underused' browser, but the DHTML-capable people get the enhanced experience.

if you are doing straight html, no dhtml, very basic javascript, there is absolutely no reason why you *cant* make it perfectly compatable in both netscape and ie for version 4 or better.

did you know that anyone who uses NT 4.0 on a machine with an AMD processor cant use ie4 or better? you can, but the text gets garbled and images dont display properly. i know because i was forced to use only netscape for a year. so yes, i learned how to code html in netscape for a year.

Bah, let people do whatever they want. If you want to exclude someone because their browser doens't offer the feature you need for your site, fine. That's totally your decision.

However, if you are trying to build a popular site then you best make it work in all browsers. Most people don't know enough to realize that different browsers show things differently. If they go to your site and it doesn't work they will most likely just think you are a shit designer and tell all their friends that. Just a consideration.

I understand the significance of designing a cross browser site. I have only been working with web page design for a little over two months.
I made my layout and then cut it up. I couldn't make the tables auto expand and still have the graphics repeat (a flaw in my graphics design) So my only alternative was to use frames, or an iframe.
Frames would have also screwed up my graphics work so that too was out. Me and my fellow team members decided to go with the iframe and give people a link to DL IE.
IMPO NN Sucks ass. I have never experienced any problems viewing a site in IE and I can't believe that NN isn't compatable with iframes. I mean common, look how easy they are to use!
Anyway, after not getting but a very few decent replies to my topic, I mean 1/2 of them didn't even address the topic, I am ignoring this thread. Thank you to those who stayed focused on what the subject actually was and Bah! to all you who like just came in here like "DONT TELL ME WHAT TO USE BAH I USE NN AND LINUX CANT HAVE IE AND DOWN WITH MICROSOFT I AM A CODING GOD SO I DONT NEED TO OFFER ANY CONSTRUCTIVE CRITISIZM OR PAY ATTN TO THE TOPIC SO I'LL JUST PISS AND MOAN ABOUT NUTSRCAPE!"
I have read thru a few threads here and have seen a lot of negative feedback from people so whats up?
Anyway, It'll probably be a long time if at all when I ever post here again.



Ozone rocks!!! Sweet tutors and excellent toys to play with.

"I would like some input on its quality and see what people think of it." was the topic as you posted it.

Most of the posts on the thread are that its quality suffers (in NS at least), and that the posters don't like it (because it forces them to use IE). "Quality" and "what people think of it", both answered. How is this off topic???

i think the negative feedback you've been noticing around here lately, can be mostly attributed to cocky little pricks like yourself.

i'm very sorry that you don't appreciate the feedback you get concerning your site, apparently you demand certain things from this community which you have never contributed to.

it also hurts to hear that you might not be bitching and whining in this forum anymore, so let me offer a final response before you part.

FUCK OFF.

cheers.mikey.milker

Ok thats about what I expected.
Go go back to your shitty artwork and if you wanna be insulting, Jackson, MO, Smack center. If you're so fckn hot you can find out the rest.
All I wanted was some feedback on the site's graphics. I guess I failed to mention that I didn't really care about the cross browser compatability issues. My fault. I don't like NN and I don't give a fuck about the users of NN for THIS site. I took a poll of the two major online gaming sites, Mplayer and MSN ZONE, out of 358 people polled 12 used NN and they also used IE. So to make that a bit easier on you Mr. Toughguy ,in the community the site is designed for, it doesn't fckn matter.
I didn't want to argue with anyone and I sure as hell didn't want to insult anyone.
I guess if someone comes in your little space here and doesn't cherish your opinion you get all pissy and have to bark.
Whatever dude.
Guess I made a mistake and found a place where the really elite people hang out, I'm not worthy of your so awe inspiring mind. Now I will leave you to yourself, I figure thats insulting enough.
Hope you never have a child who likes to draw, cuz you'd be a fckn dick to share anything with. As soon as they didn't like your input you'd go all gradeschool.


Wow and I thought by checking the link one more time someone would have stuck to the point but nah, figures it'd be you.

wow... i'm sad.

okay, i'm over it.

so, does this mean you're finally going to leave? for someone that hates this forum and said they wouldn't be coming back, it's amazing you responded 20 minutes after my post... at uh, 12.30 in the morning on a wednesday?

is everyone in the forum as rude as me? hell no. i just happen to have a vendetta against stupid little brats.

*bark*

cheers.mikey.milker

Bah, like I said, design the shit for whomever you want. It just happens that some of us have certain pet peeves which we are likely to post about. Just because most of us are too lazy to give an in-depth review of your site doesn't mean we are elitist coder pigs or whatever the fuck u think.

By the way, the negative comments that you see in general are the reason that us 'elitists' are here. We like getting feedback that we can use instead of the fluffy crap you get at other forums. Granted, people could have commented more on your graphics, but do you think they OWE it to you? Personally I am not on this forum to make a friend, I'm here to pick up tips and help others out, but not to kiss ass just so sensitive individuals can feel loved.

What is with all the sensitivity recently. I thought web designers had thick skins. Just cuz we don't like listening to your whiny asses doesn't mean that we are elitist. Go show your mom if you want someone to say 'that's nice dear'.

quote:

---

First, I would like to thank the staff for being here and for building a great website.
Second, using all the resources I have found on the net I have built a new website for my Game Mod Making Group, The United Mod Makers.
I would like some input on its quality and see what people think of it.
Thanks again.

Also, could someone please explain what I have done wrong in my sig...

CK
clkuepfer@earthlink.net
DROPZONE

---

CK: As far As Im concerned that request is asking all of us to crtique your website, no? You asked for feedback in only graphics in about your forth post. Are we supposed to be mind readers and figure out what your asking before you actually ask it? I hope not. With that said Ill give you a review of your site ... an honest review. Don't take it personal its an honest review.

Graphics

• The metal look is way OVER USED. Besides that, your metal is very unimpressive. All you did was a little noise and then motion blur. Nothing to brag about...
*
• shrug
• your iface again is nothing to brag about. You used the line tool over a green background and then put dots on the end and added scanlines. It doesnt fit the whole metal theme you have going here but Ill let that slide ...
• The main image at the top is the exact same thing.Its nothing advanced or semi-impressive.
• The Rogue Spear image on the top left and cornor ... is that even yours? Im assuming no.
• Why are all your rivits on the page the same? Perhaps you should try turning them a little so they look different.

Alright those are your graphics. Nothing is the least bit impressive and deffinatly does not deserve the fuss your making over bad reviews. There is no need to refer to Milkey in any bad way what-so-ever.

The way you have the text layed out is nothing impressive either. There doesnt seem to be an actual layout to it ... just text. I dont know if you even used tables or not, I also don't care. It just looks bad and plain. You should have added a few graphics in there.

What I dont understand is why did you narrow your audience so much? An iframe is such horrible designing. There are a few ways around it if you were the least bit concerned about cross browser compatablity, which you werent. Also, the smart thing instead of bashing on everyone who uses NN or views there work in it to check compatability would have been to ask us how we would have fixed it. DG, twitch, the Doc, or even myself would have wrote a fairly lengthy reply on how you could fix it. I doubt people are even going to reply to help anymore tho since you basically wrote off all of us.

Because many of us believe in having our websites work in as many browsers as possible does not mean that we think we are "elite". Yes there are a few of us who feel that if we are going to spend the time designing a website then all people should be able to view it.

Sorry for the extra long post ... <img border=0 align=absmiddle src="http://www.ozones.com/forum/frown.gif">

[This message has been edited by Jestah (edited 08-09-2000).]

God is it lame when people ask for criticism, then whine when they receive it. In this forum, you will get *honest* reviews from quality designers. If you want reviews like "w0w u r l33t" or "that r0x!" why don't you go post it on designsbymark? One thing that Jestah missed...Why is the email image outside of the interface?

mbridge: Am I missing something? What do you mean the email image is outside the interface? Its there for me.

BTW I should add that Ive always found that the DBM forums are among the toughest on the net. I like to post my work there, or at least I did when I used to use my time productively, because they would give very opinions that I wouldnt have thought of. If you want a real l33t0 opinion on how your design is, stick to the smaller forums. Usually they think anyone who can create a table is God...

I'm beginning to think we need to put a big disclaimer on the front page:

No Crybabies allowed!
Please note: this is not preschool. We are not here to ensure that each child feel special! Honesty is the cardinal rule. If you bitch at the people whom you've asked to critique your work, expect to be bitch-slapped!

think that'd be good enough???

<img border=0 align=absmiddle src="http://www.ozones.com/forum/wink.gif">

big long thread and I never said a word about anything...And I guess there's something to be said about that. I'm an extremely locquatious person. To keep my silence through this is amazing..

I guess it boils down to this:

The design...was boring. I didn't want to comment because I had nothing constructive to say about it. The only thing I would've said is type rm * in the directory of your site and start over..

but I guess I just forgot to say anything.

...god, that site is really boring. I *forgot* to say something truthful. That's how boring it is. Now I can't get over the fact that it's so boring. I'm going to have the most boring nightmares about that boring site.

boring.

Some color sure would've been nice.

DL: I dunno that still seems to be a little harsh for some of the latest members of this forum...

To clarify, what he wanted criticizm on was http://umm.roguespeardatabase.com . Yes, he used an Iframe. Try to ignore that fact, and just look at the layout itself. Also, note that just about every person who vists Rogue Spear Database (including that site) has IE 4+. (To be exact, 96% in a six day period have a Microsoft browser.)

sewer rat: are you his best friend or something? perhaps you're just CK with a new name...

anyways, this topic is done. we'll just drop the issue of being too stupid to support multiple browsers (because it'd take 15 minutes of work to fix, but we all realize now that's too much work for some people). in fact, let's just focus on how much the site sucks asthetically...

it sucks. it sucks bad.

uhm, would a moderator for this forum close this topic already? it's getting old..

cheers.mikey.milker

Again, the members of this forum may be lunatics and such but we are not mind readers. Perhaps he should have put the link to the site he wanted reviewed in his first post ... no?

Anyway the site is alright. The little craine like picture Im fairly convinced it was a stolen image. Its not that its overly great its just seeing what was done in the first website I doubt he made that. The imap is alright I suppose. I dunno how can you review a website that narrows its audience so much?

BTW Sewer Rat or CK whichever you would like to be called, we were commenting on the layout. The iframe is part of the layout and using it is just poor design. I thought everyone knew that.

Also how accurate is the counter you used?

damn, that's really lame sewer rat

Okie Dokie.... I'll be more than happy to close the thread. By the time I got here, there was too much going on to even find the link to the page, so quite frankly I never even saw it. Apparently, I'm just supposed to say something to the effect of "wow dude, you're the coolest, I'm gonna go get IE just so I can compliment your graphics and design skills" <img border=0 align=absmiddle src="http://www.ozones.com/forum/biggrin.gif"> <img border=0 align=absmiddle src="http://www.ozones.com/forum/biggrin.gif"> <img border=0 align=absmiddle src="http://www.ozones.com/forum/biggrin.gif">

happy trails lunatics