Preserved Topic: Full review wanted (Page 2 of 2)

Allewyn: Its not really to do with the screen resolution but the menu not recentring itself when the browser is resized. It may only be when the new browser window is small - I'm not sure. I suspect I'm also not explaining this very well. Some browsers (I believe its NS4.x) can lose their styles when you resize the page so you should have the script to reload the page on resize anyway. Opinions from anyone else?

I'll have a look around and see if I can find some resources that explain things better than I can.

Emps


You're my wife now Dave

Ok, I'll look at whatever you find but I measured my browser window at w = 7.5" before the menu runs off the edge and the HSBOD shows. By comparison, the asylum pages are wider when the scrolly comes up, heh.

Allewyn: I suspect the problem occurs when the page is opened into a window smaller than the width of the menu bar. More details in a bit.

Emps

***tapping foot***

Hmmm. I've just rechecked on another machine and I can't get the problem - so I don't know what the problem was (it must be at my end) - all very odd. You may want to think about having such a reload script as NS4.x does drop your styles when you reload - see:
www.faqts.com/knowledge_base/view.phtml/aid/3688
www.rfwilmut.clara.net/about/reload.html

That is an awfully big JavaScript you use - I'd try and make it an external JavaScript so that it caches and the page downloads quicker (even though its in a frame).

Sorry for misleading you there (I'd better find the computer I was using and check to see what the problem was).

Emps




You're my wife now Dave

Did you check that screen res was the same?

Are you referring to coolmenus.js or the mymenu.html? Both are called externally from index.html
Man, I never thought a simple two-frame design would be so complicated!
Maybe you and I should start something off-line to discuss the php thing...

edit: I just tried to send to your email address but I don't think it's valid. Outlook said that.

[This message has been edited by Allewyn (edited 12-06-2001).]

Allewyn: I may have given you a duff lead there as I've tested it in a number of computers now and it looks fine (I can often use 5 or 6 different computers in a day so its a bit difficult tracking down the one that produced the error - this computer was causing problems but it seems to be happy now so it could have been the problem). Unless anyone else reports something odd I'd ignore it.

On the PHP front feel free to email me (yes I know I should ICQ but time and my nomadic wanderings aren't really conducive to this at the moment - I might set up a few computers and see how that goes). If you've read through WarMage's second tutorial we can start be getting a test page going and then work from there. One word of warning f2s is folding so you should be sure you are going to be able to use a host with PHP or you'll be wasting your time.

Emps


You're my wife now Dave

Copy that...looking for PHP-compliant host

I'll email you when I land somewhere...

Allweyn: You don't want to put in all that effort only to have to move somewhere else and all you careful work stops working. Have a look at this thread for ideas (which I'm sure you've seen):
www.ozoneasylum.com/Forum1/HTML/003161.html

Emps


You're my wife now Dave

Hi there Allewyn.
Havn't got that much time for constructive critics, but I'll see what I can do.
Been working on this one for some time now havn't you :-)
It sure looks a lot better than the first times I saw it, I'd say it's about
100% improved...

Now, there has been a lot of good stuff said on css, scripting and so on so far, but there is two things that I'm reacting to, mainly beacuse there is a ton of info to read, and a lot of pages to walk through to get it.

One: The menu - I'ts a really cool effect you have there, zooms in from nothing to text, I like it a lot. One prob though (the same as with the one that faded in) it takes too long once you've seen, and been impressed by it... As you want to quickly hop over to another place, you start looking for another way of getting there.

Two: The text - I'm not exactly sure of what bugs me, probably a combination of these things.
- The color/contrast towards the background for one, my eyes are getting slightly irritated after reading one page.
- The non-consequent way of emphasizing important text, headlines (headings over textlinks) is in normal (pretty small) font, 15 rows of bold text on the left with a paranthesis in the middle, what parts of this text is important? If the answer is "All of it", then I suggest you make it stand out in another way than making it all bold (I'll suggest later).
- The spells are REALLY big, and bold, and italic... on my 1600x 1200 res on a 19" they practically scream at me.

I guess that about covers it.
Ok, now, I'm not killing the site! However I think you can improve the readability quite a bit here, and that ought to be important for all visitors (now don't you run off and check if my site represents what I say here... you know how it is with time for others but not for your own...).
However, I just noticed that ZOX just reopened a superb site on colors and their use: http://www.webwhirlers.com/colors/ , that ne really explains how colors work together (and when they don't).

As for the use of bold, italic and size. I have some small rules of thumb here that I'd like to live after:
- Use bold to emphasize one word or a phrase within a larger body of text.
- Use italic to emphasize one pharagraph when it's NOT a standalone paragraph.
- Use a different font and a reasonable increase in size for headings. The opposite way as a printed paper uses usually works ok on the web, sans-serif in "body-text" and serif for headings
(that one should be ok for the spells as well, after all, they are supposed to be "old and magic stuff" right )
If you apply this or a version of it, whatever you do, use it consistently (spelling?) or you will confuse your readers.

Well, that's my $.02, use it as you whish
/Dan
____________sidenote_______________
It's more fun to do this for friends than for paying clients..., just spent 80 hours mapping, reviewing, critisizing, and recommending actions on a live e-commerce site... phew, it paid about $8k though.


-{ a vibration is a movement that doesn't know which way to go }-

DMS, if you cared enough to take the time to critique my site, I sure as hell feel it's important to consider what you've said carefully. If you're being paid (handsomely) to do this, I really appreciate your taking the time to help.

Now, the text portion (menus and block text) hasn't been mentioned so I went along as per usual. However, you've pointed out some incomsistencies I overlooked (I'm too close).

1. I assume you are referring to the main Spells Already Cast page when you say they "scream at you". I've had the feeling the size was too large but hadn't approached it. I'll do that now that the site is functional.
2. Color contrast is harder. With the background at #474747, a color that doesn't say "I'm a link" is a little harder to find =) However, a little more experimentation is obviously necessary.
3. I admit that the menu "pixelate" effect is going to get boring if someone uses it constantly. Most of the players at the Guild won't. I tried to make it load as fast as possible, cutting the time from .5 to .3 seconds, and the number of squares from 80 to 40. Maybe I can cut the number of squares again without losing the effect. Maybe I'll abandon the effect and simply have them drop down normally. I'm trying to do things that are "magical" in nature but maybe it's too much. I think what I'll do first, is poll the members and see what they think.

Notice I said "functional" above? That means you, or anyone else, is always welcome to comment and help me make this something to fully proud of. All sites are or should be in a state of change! Thanks for your input!

~David~

I put up a couple of pages and need some input on which colors you all like with the gray background. This variation of the home page has four colors on it to compare. This page has a table of possible colors to use with the gray

Please take a look and let me know which you prefer? The colors were taken from the wizard image in order to keep some consistency thanks!



[This message has been edited by Allewyn (edited 12-07-2001).]

Hi again. Hope I didn't come off like some kind of know it all here, getting paid for stuff like this is part of my job in a bigger company, therefore the (somewhat absurd) fees as well.
I like reviewing and helping, I just don't have the time to do it as much as I like, so when I stumble upon ppl that really make an effort to get stuff as good as possible, I want to pitch in :-)

Now, you've started looking at colors, that's good, I think you have some examples in the table that are in the right direction.
I took a similar, but slightly different approach. Since the site is sort of dark and based on some pretty rich colors, it's not that simple. You picked colors from one item on the page to get consistency which is good thinking. What I did was two things, I sampled the whole sites colors (a quickie) to get an idea of how much there were (in a gif-format). Here that is:
.

Then I put together a supersimple page with the (in my eyes) 2 dominant colors, then I started to play with some different fornt colors that shouldnt clash with any of the dominant colors (not easy...), now, the first two are calculated colors from the two bases (not working, just a test), then I did some pastel-like variations of green, yellow, orange, blue, and pink... http://www.dmsproject.com/test/allewyn.html

Play some more along these lines and aim to find a color that is restful for the eyes on both backgrounds, yet has good readability. Once you find one, use that as a base for all main texts, use another variation of that color, similar but with more contrast for headings and finally adifferent but not eye-jarring color for links.

Since you already went through the trouble of setting up the css it shouldn't be too hard to set the colors once you've found them. Be sure to test the colorsheme on different pages though since you have different sorts of text on different pages (helps to avoid surprises).
It will be some work here, but my hope is that once you invest the time and find the right combo, you'll lean back and say "That made a difference!". Colors are not easy, but rewarding once they work for you.
Good luck
/Dan


-{ a vibration is a movement that doesn't know which way to go }-

Incredible! thanks so much!

Just one lst question: how did you sample the entire site's colors? Is there software that does that? If so, Id like to get my hands on it!

[This message has been edited by Allewyn (edited 12-07-2001).]

You're welcome :-)

To sample the site, I took a screenshot, pasted it into PS, took Save for web, selected no loss gif, then a screenshot of that, cut out the pallette and there it is...
Ugly but it works.
/Dan


-{ a vibration is a movement that doesn't know which way to go }-

Ah, the tricks of the pros

I'll let ya'll know what I settle on...

Ok, take a look: (I used a hybrid color. Is it too bright?)
http://members.cybernetisp.net/davidh/

Not been in this for a while, nice changes there Allewyn . I must say that there was some great advice on colour from DmS. So I see your keeping that plain red background then, which do look better then the image background. Now is that text colour to bright? I think not, because it nicely fits with the rest of the pages colours.



Chris C

DmS: That input was great and I'm storing away that little tip on site colours for future reference (very useful indeed). It all sounds like an interesting job you've just finished - I'd imagine you had to work like a madman at it though!!

Allewyn: That is a great improvement on the colours they are all working very nicely together (its the little changes that can make a lot of difference) although I'm not taken with the pink for the menu. But that may just be me I suppose.

Emps

<blushing>
Well Allewyn, I must say that this text color is miles better than the blueish one, what do you think yourself? I like it, It's warm yet very readable even in small size, well done!

Even though I'm not a fan of pink... I like it in this menu, it makes it very clear.
Now, off you go and check your other pages I looked at the "power levels" and you have some combinations there that needs your attention. Pay attention to these details and the site will be as new pretty soon.
Good work!
/Dan

(Emps, Yup, it took a lot of work, 70 pages worth of analyses and recommendations. But man, did I learn stuff... I'd post the url but we'll probably work more with the client so if you're interested, mail me at dms@dmsproject.com )



-{ a vibration is a movement that doesn't know which way to go }-

Hmmm, I was trying for "wine" color there (not burgandy) but it's a little light I guess. It is one of the colors in the Wiz's cloak.

Glad you all seem to like the new look. I even gained some vertical space (making the pages shorter) by reformatting the bottom menus in a more linear way.
I also moved the javascript off the homepage and linked to it. Same thing with style for the popups. combined with main SS and now only have call one.
I *do* like the text color; it was a tough choice as there are many good choices using DMS's method

I'm not sure what to do with the power levels page. I want to differentiate the upward movement in power of the members and thought disfferent colors would separate them optically. They do clash though. I knew that, just to chicken to come up with something markedly better. *cough* I'll work on arrangement maybe and I won't have to use 11 colors on that page...again, good input. I LOVE THIS!

[This message has been edited by Allewyn (edited 12-09-2001).]

One user reports that they can't break out of the top frame when they leave the site via the links page. Has anyone noticed this?

Ok, reformatted the power_levels page, saving 4K in the process. Take a look!

Just took a very quick look (not much time available)

Better, but needs more work, methinks you have too much bold text in there to make the color variations stand out w/o resorting to harsh colors. Take a look at the text formatting as well.
/Dan


-{ a vibration is a movement that doesn't know which way to go }-

Ok, will do. And I'm going to close this thread now due to length. I'll open another if need be