Preserved Topic: Full review wanted

Please look at http://www.allewyn.f2s.com and provide whatever feedback you'd care to.

Known issues:
1. there are still a few font tags around. I'm transitioning into CSS...
2. the color mismatches on "Members" and "Power Levels" pages are intentional
3. there's a space between the two frames I can't seem to get rid of
4. I'm looking for a new wizard
5. Homepage graphics (next to wizard) will be changing

OK, go get it!

OOOps...incomplete URl sorry!




[Emp edit: fixed URL]

[This message has been edited by Allewyn (edited 11-21-2001).]


[This message has been edited by Emperor (edited 12-03-2001).]

Attempt to load failed.

-jiblet

ditto

*sheepish grin*

Little snag there...try again please?

Please?

Sorry for being late I had some internet connection problems . I will give you a full review Allewyn just because you said please . But you did not say pretty please with a cherry on top (If you don't get it, forget about it as it an silly English saying (I think)).

*deletes are memories of site and starts to write*

Layout:

As for the layout, I like it as the content is easily seen, but is there really a need for the text links (I.e. "Main Guild Pages:") I say that as there is an menu system at the top which stays at the top of the page which in my option is the only navigation you will need, except for the important ones which can be a the bottom of the page. Also looking at the rest of the pages there layout out nice too but still the text links are still there I think you should sort them out into important ones and put them at the bottom of the page instead of all the links as it just looks messy.


Graphics:

Your graphics are fine as this is not a full graphic site. The graphics fit well, but that marble ball thing with SCG, does that have to be there? If it has to be I would try and make it like the text or image header (I.E Charmed Spell Casters Guild! as image at top of page). Doing that would make them marble images not stand out as much on the page. I think the wizard ok I see no need for a new unless it's not yours and has copyright on it.

Browser check:

IE 6 = Fine
NS 4 = Fine
NS 6 = Fine, but on the main page the text "Limits: 4 items per sub-category (100's are possible).(plus other text below in that box)
Opera = Fine, but menu did not appear.


Overall: It's nice but as said before it's just the little things that need to be done and I know you said you need to do things to, so as they get do I think it's ok, well done .



Chris C

Thanks DS, I'll think about whether I need the text links on each page. It's just that when I didin't have them, somehere siad there wasn't enough navigation for people with java turned off and Opera doesn't display the menu as you commented.

I'll look at modifying the marble to see if I can make it fit better

Again, thanks for the review.

I changed the marble and wizard images. I added some small pics so the real intent of the site won't get lost See what you think now!

wow that new wizard is good, where do yoou get that?

I still think the marble things still stand out to much, I think it' the bright outline around them, if you want it like that then have it like that. Maybe I'am jut being picky about things. If you like it then stay with it.

The pictures add a nice touch to it, it adds colour to it and a warming feel or is that the wizard giving me that warming feel.

If I am being picky then tell me

Chris C

The more I look at them, the more i WANT TO CHANGE THE MARBLES AGAIN. Sheesh...

Is the table border around the cast images too obnoxious? I'm starting to think it is...

Is anyone else gonna review this site? It's your big chance! (no offense, DS, your input has been great)

No offence taken Allewyn .

The way I see it, more people review it the better you have of improving it or change things for the better. People have different styles and likes in web sites so more reviews you have, the more it will look better to people as a whole than just one persons view.


Chris C

Thanks and I changed the marble See if you like it now.

Looks better Allewyn, but I wish some else would review it, as my input can only go so far.

Chris C

Well it looks like you two have been having fun - I'll throw in my thoughts too:

1. You possibly need to throw in a reload on resize script - if I maximise the page after opening it the naviagtion stays stuck to the left hand side and the granite fills in the space from the right (screenshot if you want it).

2. I do like that new wizard - I was going to offer a smaller animated wizard to stop Disney jumping on you but that is much better. If its a 'keeper' (and I do advise you to keep it) then I might be tempted to add some of the colours from the wizard to other page elements - your SCG marbles look a little like that but I might do a bit more tweaking. Is that a broom stick appearing from between his legs? It looks a little urm.. odd and I might think about removing it if it could be done without spoling the picture. It looks odder on the smaller version on the news page.

3. If you are going to use frames then put keyword and description metatags on the main frame page as well as all the subpages it draws in.

4. Pos. make the pictures of the cast link to relevant pages - you can't have too much crosslinking!!

5. Did I mention the JavaScript that allows you to detect if people aren't inside your frameset? This would allow people to link to your separate pages without loosing the option of having the navigation bar. However, I would seriously think about getting rid of the frames as I don't really think they are needed.

6. Now that is interesting - I get the gap at the top of the page on the links page (IE5.5/WinME).

7. I'd like to see some kind of indication that there are submenus - a small arrow would suffice.

8. I don't really like the way you've set up you FAQs - esp. the numbering or the underlining.

9. I notice the original wizard lives on on your episode 1 guide page.

10. I'm still unsure about that granite background - it seems a little too patterned and light for the rest of the page.

11. I might make the marbles quick links back to the home page.

12. I say keep the text links in - I'd probably use them more often than the menu system to quickly get to another page.

So well done there you've clearly put in a massive amount of hard work (I haven't managed to visit anything more than a small percentage of the pages) and it is all looking very good. There are still some tweaks that are need but it is coming along nicely - well done.

Emps


You're my wife now Dave

Thanks muchly for the review Emp! I appreciate what you've said and will look into removing the frame. Most people seem to agree with you...
*Also an interesting idea to amke marbles a homepage link.
*Thanks for catching the old wiz. Using ectended replace in Max's Beauty is wonderful but sometimes misses defined text.
*The thing between the wiz'z legs is a bookmark ribbon.
*You saying there's no arrows on the menu pointing to submenus? Hmmm...
*Linking the images also good but would allow only partial access to categories. Maybe a popup description window?
*I'll check the FAQs...what would you suggest?
*I'll add meta tags at the end, just before going live.

Allewyn: OK quick replies to your points:

1. If you need any advice on removing the frames just ask - I'd use DHTML and server side includes.

2. Its always a good idea to have a number of links back to the main page and this seemed the best place for it - I know I'd prefer a quick way without having to bother with the menu system.

3. It was the only old wizard I spotted (as I'm also called the Wizard I take notice of these things).

4. A bookmark ribbon? I don't understand.

5. Nope. Aah the three dots d'oh I get it now!!

6. Nice idea about the pop down - I'd definetly have a try at that.

7. Get rid of the numbering and pos. put the question in bold/strong.

8. Pos. a good idea esp. if you don't have access to includes - if you did I'd recommend adding them now and playing with them.

Emps


You're my wife now Dave

Meta tags are in and I'm working on implementing the popdowns. Hopefully the script will run without causing probles.

If there's anything else, I'd appreciate hearing about it. Maybe more about eliminating the frames. I don't really want to modify every page if I change the menu contents but...

My only question is did you get permission from my wife, Alyssa Milano, to post her picture?

Allewyn: I understand that. This is why you really need to look into includes - have a look at WarMage's intro tute:
www.gurusnetwork.com/tutorials/php/phptemplate/phptemplate.html

and the manual:
www.php.net/include

I'll dig some more resources if you are interested.

I know I mentioned trying f2s again in the DHTML forum and I don't think that the problem is that they (somehow) can't handle the CSS but I do wonder if something went wrong in the FTP process - try grabbing the background back and looking at it in PS. Rename and upload it, try a few fiddles to see what happens - its worth a little bit of frustration to use their excellent service.

If you still want the nav to hover at the top like a frame you could use one of the more complex DHTML examples but I might just use position: fixed and damn the browsers that don't support it (isn't IE5/Win in that category).

They'd be my first solutions to the problem. I'll think if there are any more.

Emps


You're my wife now Dave

wow, compared to what the SCG was when i first joined to now, amazing, and I love the new pictures, especially the wizard, now.. krets.. we need to talk, cause Alyssa is mine.. although I wasn't aware she was married =P lol anyways, great job david, its getting better everytime I look at it.

ACO and krets: No fighting there - take it outside or turn it into a game of PSPong - winner gets the lady (sort of).

Emps


You're my wife now Dave

Jeez, krets, if I had known I wouldn't have gotten involved with her, hee hee. Wonder why she didn't tell me...

Emp, right now I'm trying out FormMail and trying to make it work. It's giving me 404s. I'll look at PHP when I get this handled. I don't know much about SSI but maybe it's time I learned. =)

ACO, glad you like the site! It doesn't look so good on f2s but I'm getting it handled slowly. Maybe you could check it there and help me get the background gaps fixed? I'd appreciate any help. Specially from the co-founder of the SCG.
www.allewyn.f2s.com

by the way, I've stripped all <font> related html from the site now and rely solely on the CSS. Good for me!

[This message has been edited by Allewyn (edited 11-29-2001).]

I'm wondering if including a background color in the body definition is affecting the way the background image stated in my CSS is tiling.

Each page has <body bgcolor="#474747"...> #this color is the one showing as horizontal bars
and the CSS has
body{background-repeat: repeat;
background-attachment: fixed;
background-image: url(granite71.gif); #this image should be tiling and hiding the bgcolor
}
Does anyone see the bgcolor "bleeding" through the CSS as a possibility?

Allewyn: I really can't see how. If you've tried the things I've suggested already try creating a simple page with just the basic tags and the background set on the body tag then add in the styles and see how that goes. I'm not sure what the problem is but we can get to it using a process of elimination.

Emps


You're my wife now Dave

I've moved the site to F2S. Recent changes include:

1. reworking all html pages to eliminate the background image
2. changing CSS to remove background image and substitute color for now
3. removing background image from server, IE and Opera caches, and HDD
4. changing menu code to coordiante colors (need someone to check for effect)
5. using marbles as backlinks to home page
6. getting the forms to work, with help from guys in cgi forum. I get mail now yay!
7. removing all files on my ISPs server. Cheap bastards...
8. Started redirecting traffic from old geocities site.

Pretty much done with planned changes. Need to look at SSI for menu system. Any comments wil be appreciated.

Well what can I say but well done, I think you had really worked hard on this .

Well I like the changes you have done (Visual, code is emps part). Love the added sparkles image that separates the text links on the home page and the menu effect .

But I know you said "remove background image and substitute colour for now" I think that colour works well with it but if you keep the red background, I would think about changing the text colour, scroll bar colour and the mouse over colour for the menu to fit in with the rest of the pages.

Well done

*Hands over some well earned pills I keep hidden in my cell to Allewyn*



Chris C

Allewyn: Very good - it is your attention to detail which has really paid off. Lots of examples but the IE transition on the menus is a good example and it is wise to keep it short as you've done. Some thoughts:

1. I think I prefer it without the background image as it gives the whole focus to the main body of your content. Actually can you trim some more time off (say get it down to 0.4)?

2. Why not change the track colour (I think) of the scroll bar to match the background colour?

3. Those little text arrows work better than the ...

4. Its just my pedantic side showing (yes I do have other sides!!) but could you move the title tag to the top of the head area?

5. Your code seems fine - I would try to trim them down (I suspect you only really need one on the front page for those two columns) but they aren't a problem.

6. A little sneaky use of <BR> for vertical spacing creeps in at the bottom of the main page and I'd use styles to fix that.

I'll have a wander through the large amount of content and see if anything jumps out but it all looks really good, good use of colour, space, graphics, etc. It looks like all your hard work has paid off - well done.

Emps

[Emp edit: rogue 3]


You're my wife now Dave

[This message has been edited by Emperor (edited 12-01-2001).]

Thank you Emperor, I appreciate the kind words. You know how much work goes into something as off-beat as this!

*I am starting to like the background color myself. May be a keeper. Gives a rich feel to the thing. Makes me think of changing the border color to gold.
*Now that I have the font stuff handled with CSS, it's time to move to the next thing; spacing as you pointed out. I know I can contain all content with class definitons, just have to work out the application now.
*The track color, is it that it's too dark? I had the feeling it might be a little hard to see, but I wanted to not draw too much attention to it. If I change the highlight color it may be better. Use the #a396fe that the body font has? (violet)
*I've split the "Spells Already Cast" (SAC) page into one + four and have to redo the menu. The page was getting too huge. 280 line items isn't anything to DOC but I'm sure the separate pages will load faster. <grin>
*Yep I can speed up the menu by deducing the number of squares used or by decreasing the timer. Good idea.

I really am grateful for all the help. I couldn't have done it without you and my other friends here.
Additional comments, as you persue the site, will be welcome.

Allewyn: We are all glad we could help and you did all the hard work - well done.

If you are looking at PHP includes WarMage has the second of his site template tutorials up for approval, see here:
www.gurusnetwork.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=12&t=000083

And this should be a big help with working out what needs doing - if you need a hand you know we'll be around somewhere!!

Emps


You're my wife now Dave

That's good to know! I tried logging into the GN but apparently, the system doesn't recognise me. Used the right password and didn't get errors while doing it but it kept coming up as not logged in. I sent email.

The style sheet I'm using defines the scrollbar-face-color as the background color but I think f2s has some problems right now and isn't refreshing their cache. The new values aren't coming up and the SB looks gray.

I'm working on it. I laos printed out the tut for PHP and will study hard.

It's working now...

Allewyn: The GN moved servers a few days ago and so you'll need to log in again.

Colour change looks good - perhaps change the outline colours (things like shadow, 3D highlight, etc. - depends on which way you've done it) to that light blue colour so its a little more visible.

Emps


You're my wife now Dave

I get a message I am not authorized to view page.

skyetyger: you tried thr first link it is all now at http://www.allewyn.f2s.com allewyn moved it all form the other one as this one is the main site host that allewyn wants people to go to .


Chris C

[Emp edit fixed URL]

[This message has been edited by Emperor (edited 12-03-2001).]

OOooo.. I like it.. I didn't like the graphics before but these are Better.

Thanks, but I'm going to load some changes and I think they're better yet

Worked out some stuff and am having problems with f2s. So, I loaded the site back at http://members.cybernetisp.net/davidh/
for ya'll to look at, if you have time.

Try www.allewyn.f2s.com and tell me if the scrollbar face is the background color with a gold outline. It is at cybernet but, for some reason, I can't get it to come up at f2s. I've gone through my file system with a fine-toothed comb and ferreted out all traces of old files and I deleted the old files at f2s before loading the new. The old files (view source) keep coming up. The site is based on CSS and tables so any server should handle it if the cache is being refreshed...

Looks like both sites are now working properly. Any reactions are appreciated

Allewyn: It all looks fine to me - whatever problems you had with f2s seem to be solved. My only suggestion is an old one in that you do need some kind of on resize script to reload your menu as my browser opened up quite small and when I maximised it the menu items stayed where they were tucked up on the left when you really want them centred.

Good work,

Emps


You're my wife now Dave

Liquidity is an issue but how small is small? I've designed with %'s within the SS, and it collapses pretty well. What size was your browser? I'm not sure allowing for something under 12" would be necessary. Are you talking about reducing the font size automatically? Of course I'm open to links that describe what you mean...

Allewyn: Its not really to do with the screen resolution but the menu not recentring itself when the browser is resized. It may only be when the new browser window is small - I'm not sure. I suspect I'm also not explaining this very well. Some browsers (I believe its NS4.x) can lose their styles when you resize the page so you should have the script to reload the page on resize anyway. Opinions from anyone else?

I'll have a look around and see if I can find some resources that explain things better than I can.

Emps


You're my wife now Dave

Ok, I'll look at whatever you find but I measured my browser window at w = 7.5" before the menu runs off the edge and the HSBOD shows. By comparison, the asylum pages are wider when the scrolly comes up, heh.

Allewyn: I suspect the problem occurs when the page is opened into a window smaller than the width of the menu bar. More details in a bit.

Emps

***tapping foot***

Hmmm. I've just rechecked on another machine and I can't get the problem - so I don't know what the problem was (it must be at my end) - all very odd. You may want to think about having such a reload script as NS4.x does drop your styles when you reload - see:
www.faqts.com/knowledge_base/view.phtml/aid/3688
www.rfwilmut.clara.net/about/reload.html

That is an awfully big JavaScript you use - I'd try and make it an external JavaScript so that it caches and the page downloads quicker (even though its in a frame).

Sorry for misleading you there (I'd better find the computer I was using and check to see what the problem was).

Emps




You're my wife now Dave

Did you check that screen res was the same?

Are you referring to coolmenus.js or the mymenu.html? Both are called externally from index.html
Man, I never thought a simple two-frame design would be so complicated!
Maybe you and I should start something off-line to discuss the php thing...

edit: I just tried to send to your email address but I don't think it's valid. Outlook said that.

[This message has been edited by Allewyn (edited 12-06-2001).]

Allewyn: I may have given you a duff lead there as I've tested it in a number of computers now and it looks fine (I can often use 5 or 6 different computers in a day so its a bit difficult tracking down the one that produced the error - this computer was causing problems but it seems to be happy now so it could have been the problem). Unless anyone else reports something odd I'd ignore it.

On the PHP front feel free to email me (yes I know I should ICQ but time and my nomadic wanderings aren't really conducive to this at the moment - I might set up a few computers and see how that goes). If you've read through WarMage's second tutorial we can start be getting a test page going and then work from there. One word of warning f2s is folding so you should be sure you are going to be able to use a host with PHP or you'll be wasting your time.

Emps


You're my wife now Dave

Copy that...looking for PHP-compliant host

I'll email you when I land somewhere...

Allweyn: You don't want to put in all that effort only to have to move somewhere else and all you careful work stops working. Have a look at this thread for ideas (which I'm sure you've seen):
www.ozoneasylum.com/Forum1/HTML/003161.html

Emps


You're my wife now Dave

Hi there Allewyn.
Havn't got that much time for constructive critics, but I'll see what I can do.
Been working on this one for some time now havn't you :-)
It sure looks a lot better than the first times I saw it, I'd say it's about
100% improved...

Now, there has been a lot of good stuff said on css, scripting and so on so far, but there is two things that I'm reacting to, mainly beacuse there is a ton of info to read, and a lot of pages to walk through to get it.

One: The menu - I'ts a really cool effect you have there, zooms in from nothing to text, I like it a lot. One prob though (the same as with the one that faded in) it takes too long once you've seen, and been impressed by it... As you want to quickly hop over to another place, you start looking for another way of getting there.

Two: The text - I'm not exactly sure of what bugs me, probably a combination of these things.
- The color/contrast towards the background for one, my eyes are getting slightly irritated after reading one page.
- The non-consequent way of emphasizing important text, headlines (headings over textlinks) is in normal (pretty small) font, 15 rows of bold text on the left with a paranthesis in the middle, what parts of this text is important? If the answer is "All of it", then I suggest you make it stand out in another way than making it all bold (I'll suggest later).
- The spells are REALLY big, and bold, and italic... on my 1600x 1200 res on a 19" they practically scream at me.

I guess that about covers it.
Ok, now, I'm not killing the site! However I think you can improve the readability quite a bit here, and that ought to be important for all visitors (now don't you run off and check if my site represents what I say here... you know how it is with time for others but not for your own...).
However, I just noticed that ZOX just reopened a superb site on colors and their use: http://www.webwhirlers.com/colors/ , that ne really explains how colors work together (and when they don't).

As for the use of bold, italic and size. I have some small rules of thumb here that I'd like to live after:
- Use bold to emphasize one word or a phrase within a larger body of text.
- Use italic to emphasize one pharagraph when it's NOT a standalone paragraph.
- Use a different font and a reasonable increase in size for headings. The opposite way as a printed paper uses usually works ok on the web, sans-serif in "body-text" and serif for headings
(that one should be ok for the spells as well, after all, they are supposed to be "old and magic stuff" right )
If you apply this or a version of it, whatever you do, use it consistently (spelling?) or you will confuse your readers.

Well, that's my $.02, use it as you whish
/Dan
____________sidenote_______________
It's more fun to do this for friends than for paying clients..., just spent 80 hours mapping, reviewing, critisizing, and recommending actions on a live e-commerce site... phew, it paid about $8k though.


-{ a vibration is a movement that doesn't know which way to go }-

DMS, if you cared enough to take the time to critique my site, I sure as hell feel it's important to consider what you've said carefully. If you're being paid (handsomely) to do this, I really appreciate your taking the time to help.

Now, the text portion (menus and block text) hasn't been mentioned so I went along as per usual. However, you've pointed out some incomsistencies I overlooked (I'm too close).

1. I assume you are referring to the main Spells Already Cast page when you say they "scream at you". I've had the feeling the size was too large but hadn't approached it. I'll do that now that the site is functional.
2. Color contrast is harder. With the background at #474747, a color that doesn't say "I'm a link" is a little harder to find =) However, a little more experimentation is obviously necessary.
3. I admit that the menu "pixelate" effect is going to get boring if someone uses it constantly. Most of the players at the Guild won't. I tried to make it load as fast as possible, cutting the time from .5 to .3 seconds, and the number of squares from 80 to 40. Maybe I can cut the number of squares again without losing the effect. Maybe I'll abandon the effect and simply have them drop down normally. I'm trying to do things that are "magical" in nature but maybe it's too much. I think what I'll do first, is poll the members and see what they think.

Notice I said "functional" above? That means you, or anyone else, is always welcome to comment and help me make this something to fully proud of. All sites are or should be in a state of change! Thanks for your input!

~David~

I put up a couple of pages and need some input on which colors you all like with the gray background. This variation of the home page has four colors on it to compare. This page has a table of possible colors to use with the gray

Please take a look and let me know which you prefer? The colors were taken from the wizard image in order to keep some consistency thanks!



[This message has been edited by Allewyn (edited 12-07-2001).]

Hi again. Hope I didn't come off like some kind of know it all here, getting paid for stuff like this is part of my job in a bigger company, therefore the (somewhat absurd) fees as well.
I like reviewing and helping, I just don't have the time to do it as much as I like, so when I stumble upon ppl that really make an effort to get stuff as good as possible, I want to pitch in :-)

Now, you've started looking at colors, that's good, I think you have some examples in the table that are in the right direction.
I took a similar, but slightly different approach. Since the site is sort of dark and based on some pretty rich colors, it's not that simple. You picked colors from one item on the page to get consistency which is good thinking. What I did was two things, I sampled the whole sites colors (a quickie) to get an idea of how much there were (in a gif-format). Here that is:
.

Then I put together a supersimple page with the (in my eyes) 2 dominant colors, then I started to play with some different fornt colors that shouldnt clash with any of the dominant colors (not easy...), now, the first two are calculated colors from the two bases (not working, just a test), then I did some pastel-like variations of green, yellow, orange, blue, and pink... http://www.dmsproject.com/test/allewyn.html

Play some more along these lines and aim to find a color that is restful for the eyes on both backgrounds, yet has good readability. Once you find one, use that as a base for all main texts, use another variation of that color, similar but with more contrast for headings and finally adifferent but not eye-jarring color for links.

Since you already went through the trouble of setting up the css it shouldn't be too hard to set the colors once you've found them. Be sure to test the colorsheme on different pages though since you have different sorts of text on different pages (helps to avoid surprises).
It will be some work here, but my hope is that once you invest the time and find the right combo, you'll lean back and say "That made a difference!". Colors are not easy, but rewarding once they work for you.
Good luck
/Dan


-{ a vibration is a movement that doesn't know which way to go }-

Incredible! thanks so much!

Just one lst question: how did you sample the entire site's colors? Is there software that does that? If so, Id like to get my hands on it!

[This message has been edited by Allewyn (edited 12-07-2001).]

You're welcome :-)

To sample the site, I took a screenshot, pasted it into PS, took Save for web, selected no loss gif, then a screenshot of that, cut out the pallette and there it is...
Ugly but it works.
/Dan


-{ a vibration is a movement that doesn't know which way to go }-

Ah, the tricks of the pros

I'll let ya'll know what I settle on...

Ok, take a look: (I used a hybrid color. Is it too bright?)
http://members.cybernetisp.net/davidh/

Not been in this for a while, nice changes there Allewyn . I must say that there was some great advice on colour from DmS. So I see your keeping that plain red background then, which do look better then the image background. Now is that text colour to bright? I think not, because it nicely fits with the rest of the pages colours.



Chris C

DmS: That input was great and I'm storing away that little tip on site colours for future reference (very useful indeed). It all sounds like an interesting job you've just finished - I'd imagine you had to work like a madman at it though!!

Allewyn: That is a great improvement on the colours they are all working very nicely together (its the little changes that can make a lot of difference) although I'm not taken with the pink for the menu. But that may just be me I suppose.

Emps

<blushing>
Well Allewyn, I must say that this text color is miles better than the blueish one, what do you think yourself? I like it, It's warm yet very readable even in small size, well done!

Even though I'm not a fan of pink... I like it in this menu, it makes it very clear.
Now, off you go and check your other pages I looked at the "power levels" and you have some combinations there that needs your attention. Pay attention to these details and the site will be as new pretty soon.
Good work!
/Dan

(Emps, Yup, it took a lot of work, 70 pages worth of analyses and recommendations. But man, did I learn stuff... I'd post the url but we'll probably work more with the client so if you're interested, mail me at dms@dmsproject.com )



-{ a vibration is a movement that doesn't know which way to go }-

Hmmm, I was trying for "wine" color there (not burgandy) but it's a little light I guess. It is one of the colors in the Wiz's cloak.

Glad you all seem to like the new look. I even gained some vertical space (making the pages shorter) by reformatting the bottom menus in a more linear way.
I also moved the javascript off the homepage and linked to it. Same thing with style for the popups. combined with main SS and now only have call one.
I *do* like the text color; it was a tough choice as there are many good choices using DMS's method

I'm not sure what to do with the power levels page. I want to differentiate the upward movement in power of the members and thought disfferent colors would separate them optically. They do clash though. I knew that, just to chicken to come up with something markedly better. *cough* I'll work on arrangement maybe and I won't have to use 11 colors on that page...again, good input. I LOVE THIS!

[This message has been edited by Allewyn (edited 12-09-2001).]

One user reports that they can't break out of the top frame when they leave the site via the links page. Has anyone noticed this?

Ok, reformatted the power_levels page, saving 4K in the process. Take a look!

Just took a very quick look (not much time available)

Better, but needs more work, methinks you have too much bold text in there to make the color variations stand out w/o resorting to harsh colors. Take a look at the text formatting as well.
/Dan


-{ a vibration is a movement that doesn't know which way to go }-

Ok, will do. And I'm going to close this thread now due to length. I'll open another if need be