Preserved Topic: Do YOU believe in GOD? (Page 2 of 2)

quote:

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* the ten dimensional universe (the basis for quarks and the string theorum)
* how ancient dinosaurs could fly
* why people lived so old in the bible (age studies)

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flying dinosaurs? i don't think so. birds are probably
the descendants of dinosaur relatives but pterosaurs
are quite distinct. p.s. what's an ancient dinosaur
versus a recent dinosaur?

people lived so old? i'm sure they kept accurate
records of their birthdays on their hard drives.

10 dimensional universe? that's a new one
and to think we gave all those noble prizes
in physics to people who ripped off the bible.

if you believe science is bad you should keep it to yourself
you just made a very strong case for it.

I do not believe in any gods. Every god that has ever been worshipped is a fabrication of human design.

I must say, however, that if the Christian god of the bible does exist, I would hate him more than anything.

I would not hate him. He would leave me indifferent,
just as he is indifferent with us - indifferent to pain, indifferent to suffering,
indifferent to all the evil that man inflicts on fellow man.

It amuses me as to how some people selfishly think God plays such an important
part in their little lives....yet they never comment on why
God would allow children to die of disease or starvation
every stinking day of the week....their usual answer is "it's all
part of God's plan"

well you know what, I would prefer a God who's plan
is for everyone to be happy and healthy...but again
i'm sure the real plan is just way too complicated
for me to understand right?

InSiDeR,

Yes, that answered my question quite well, thanks. I read your post word for word a few times to make sure I got everything straight. I'm going to respond to your post section by section.

I've never quite understood why anyone would believe very strongly in the non-existence of something and I'm glad to hear you are not one of them. In my book of definitions, I would consider you an agnostic.

I'm not sure what it is about Catholic schools that has this effect on people. Hypocrites in the church? Um... yes there are quite a few but who ever said the church was filled with perfect people? Jesus came to heal a lost and dying world not a perfect world. With all due respect, the existence of hypocrites in the church doesn't really address the question of the existence of God.

I think what your teacher meant about battles between Heaven and Hell is the references to how Lucifer opposed God and he and a third of the angels were banished forever for their actions. We had a decent discussion about that in this very forum about a year ago.

The parting of the "Reed" Sea is another interesting issue indeed. Remember that the account states that the winds blew all night long very strongly and that is when the Hebrews were able to cross. Whatever you do, please don't think that it happened the way Charlton Heston did it in the movie I mentioned "Reed" sea instead of Red sea because the last time I looked into it, that was most likely where it occurred and it is a much shallower area than one would think and the possibility of crossing it under the right conditions is hardly out of the question.

So to the question of what you do believe in. I honestly can't see how the Big Bang theory contradicts the existence of God. The opening words of the Pentateuch simply state that "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." Personally, I think we will continue to learn more and more about the actual physical processes that occurred during the creation of the universe and I can't see how any knowledge gained in that process challenges, or even needs to challenge, whether there was something greater behind it all.

I don't think we should confuse an answer to a question with a scientific explanation of a process. Think about what you said about *understanding* the creation of the universe versus answering who did it. If I were to ask you who designed your web page, what would you say? Most likely you would answer, "I did". Simple, to the point, done. If I were to ask you, "How was this web page created? What tools were used? What languages? Explain to me the process behind building something this cool." That could take quite some time to answer to a person's satisfaction.

So you hate some things religious people do and believe... welcome to the club! But remember we are still dealing with people and many of the things you described are opinions and not necessarily mandated by biblical teachings. We could always discuss each of those separately and, in fact, in my congregation we don't agree on lots of those types of issues.

Hell not a bad place? You just got through explaining how you didn't accept the bible, so you can hardly start going on about the nature of Hell after that. First things first, eh?

Why do you think that "living a good life" is the ticket? And did you ever stop to think what defines a "good life"?

Phew!

[This message has been edited by Bugimus (edited 05-15-2002).]

Here is a question that I never hear asked.

If there is a God, what is his/her origin?



[This message has been edited by beaner (edited 05-15-2002).]

Beaner: one of my cousins and me had an arguement back when I was a believer about where he came from, he kept saying that he was always there and I was like but that can't be and so on....

Bugs: Yea Hell isn't that bad of a place so If i end up going there I don't care! Although I don't believe in hell lol. If beekay got a satan book then maybe we could be sure on hell hehe...

Why Do I think living a good life is the ticket? Well in my opinion living a good life is living by doing what you want in a sane and appropriate sence. Aside from the religion topic I think everyone should be "nice" lol. I think you should always try to think in the positive way and even if people are mean to you don't be mean back try to eliminate the tension between yourselves. So lets say there is a god, I think theoretically if there is a god then living a good life in an appropriate and optimistic way will get you to heaven.

It was really hard for me to explain this.....

Oh and personally I thought my third grade teacher was an idiot LOL

St Seneca why would you hate him? Do tell!

ShootingStar - those are all human problems....what has that to do with God? Imho it's our responsibility to sort it out...I'm sure that if God does exist, he has much more important things to do...

Welcome beaner to the Asylum...in answer to your question, God is timeless, so exists outside of time...there is no beginning, and no end...I know, the concept is hard to grasp...but without time, there is no 'movement'...one exists in all points at once.

Looky, Bugs, I beat ya to it...or do you have a different explanation? If so, let's hear it, I'm kinda curious...

[This message has been edited by WebShaman (edited 05-16-2002).]

<way off topic>
Could this really be?!?!

Have I missed something?

I just realized.
A thread about religion with 40+ posts and it has no personal insults or petty bickering in it yet!!

geez, you might think we actually have learned a thing or two. This is very unsettling if we want to keep our asylum status. Guess this means that hell really have frozen over... *lol*

</way off topic>

quote:

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I'm sure that if God does exist, he has much more important things to do...

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WS:
Name one.
Please

I guess we have set different priorities for God.
Mine would be:
8h00 have breakfast
9h00 consult with Alan Greenspan on portfolio
9h30 call broker with hot tip
10h00 cure cancer
10h30 solve middle east crisis
11h00 toilet break
12h00 lunch with Elvis
14h00 prevent forthcoming asteroid crisis
15h00 watch spiderman or episode 2, decisions..decisions
16h00 go for pedicure
17h00 get ready for date with Marilyn Monroe
17h30 send nasty email to satan

WS, interesting observation. i consider a soul something that is only God-given, so i don't see a man-made object having a soul. when you say you think "everything" has a soul, what exactly does that include?

i find shooting stars comments interesting. people seem to miss free will playing such a role in the pain that we see. we have a choice to do whatever we want, follow and believe in God or not, etc., and there will always be those that choose to abuse that right and hurt others, sometimes in catastrophic ways (9/11 for example). 'but where was God? why didn't He step in and stop it?' we ask. why should He? we've turned away from God in general, embraced values that go directly against what the bible teaches, removed as much of God as possible from our schools, government, etc., yet suddenly we go 'oh, help me' and expect results? God does step into situations where He's asked to by people who are truly following him and reaching out to Him (do some searching on uganda and prayer and transformation and see what you find), that just doesn't describe a lot of people.

chris


KAIROSinteractive

I'll call it quits for this thread.
I truly believe in tolerance, in "to each his own"
we should not try to sell others our beliefs

if you do great, if you don't great as well
peace to everyone

To ShootingStar:

*The Ten-Dimensional universe is a theory that says that instead of the four basic dimensions that we know of (length, width, height and time), their are actually ten. The extra six come from heaven and hell, but since time is irrelivant there their is only three dimensions in each. Those dimensions would then overlap with our dimensions to make ten (think "Planes" from DnD, Baldurs Gate etc.). The theory was invented by a german scientist and proved through years worth of mathematics.

*Ok, maybe I wasn't clear about this...by ancient dinosaurs I meant anything that lived around that time that could fly. All of the flying lizards (thats what i'll call them, I forgot the proper definition) bone structures were scientifically proven to have been to heavy to fly, so (some scientist) said that maybe the air was denser then it could support the flying lizards heaviness, because they could get more lift from the denser air when they flapped their wings.

*The theory of the denser air was then taken farther to say that if the air was denser then it could soak up more deadly rays from the sun. It has been scientifically proven that if we were not bombarded with those rays then we could live anywhere from 10-20% longer. In the (chrisitian/catholic) bible, it records people living 120 - 130 years and more. While I think that this could be because of conflicting calenders, that theory could also have something to do with it.

*Check out these books: Book 1, Book 2, Book 3

*There was another book called Biblical Truth's in Modern Science, but it's not listed on Amazon.

[This message has been edited by counterfeitbacon (edited 05-16-2002).]

BeeKay click here for your satanic bible

Well, actually I have no intentions of buying the satanic bible. I was just curious if anyplace actually sells the book or do stores not sell it because it might offend the customers ...

ahem ... all righty then ... let's jump in and have some fun here ... ~rolls up sleeves~

we have a choice to do whatever we want, follow and believe in Allah or not, etc., and there will always be those that choose to abuse that right and hurt others, sometimes in catastrophic ways (9/11 for example). 'but where was Allah? why didn't He step in and stop it?' we ask. why should He? we've turned away from Allah in general, embraced values that go directly against what the Koran teaches, removed as much of Allah as possible from our schools, government, etc., yet suddenly we go 'oh, help me' and expect results? Allah does step into situations where He's asked to by people who are truly following him and reaching out to Him (do some searching on uganda and prayer and transformation and see what you find), that just doesn't describe a lot of people.

Did you read that paragraph carefully? Did you note the simple, but important changes I made? I could just as easily slipped in Zeus or Ra (keep in mind these ancient gods are just history to us, but were actually believed and worshipped in their time). God did not step in because there is no God, or Allah, or Zeus, or Ra ...

Of course, this doesn't prove anything and I realize that. I just think that it is odd that a person's religion happens to be the right religion when there are and have been so many to choose from.

And on another note, I am a very big proponent of separation of church and state. The statement concerning removing God from school and government is false as written. The important distinction is that there can not be any "state-sponsored" religion. Students can not be forced to pray a certain prayer or to even pray at all. On the other hand, religion in schools is alive and well. All students are permitted to pray on their own, carry bibles, organize religious clubs, etc. It is when the school makes a religious function mandatory or when it appears that the school is promoting one religion over others or promoting any religion over non-religion that the red flags go up.


[This message has been edited by BeeKay (edited 05-16-2002).]

Well, if the goverment was really concerned about seperation of church and state, im sure that they wouldn't of overlooked these things...

*Remove all mentions of God or religion from text books and the pledge of allegiance
*No more Golden Rule...thats one's a No-No, because it came from the bible
*The moral code, practically all of it came from the Bible
*Better not teach abstinance, the only western religion that promotes it it Christianity
*While were at it, how about the teachers can't talk about ANY religion ([sarcasm]were not going to single out Christianity now are we
[/sarcasm]
*Kids can no longer pray, talk or do anything remotly related to any religion
*Give up our basic right, freedom of speech

...there

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Another thing in responce to InsiDers post way back up there in the thread:

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Another thing that I Hate is christians that over abuse the religion. Like people that say If you don't go to church you go to hell, or people that say Harry Potter is satanic and that you shouldn't let your children see it, and especially the ones that say I pray for the middle-eastern cultures that will go to hell because they don't choose to believe in god OR because they have never heard of god. If you don't go to church, you shouldn't go to hell, and as to the rest above. Why go to church? Why go and sit and listen to someone bark about how you should live your life? (Methodist). Why should you go and sit and listen to a man while he reads to you from a book of his beliefs while you sing and eat a symbolic meal?(Catholic).

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Every christian/catholic that I know (about ten, minus people at our church) are very conservative, and don't do any of the things that you mentioned above.


[This message has been edited by counterfeitbacon (edited 05-16-2002).]

YES! I believe in God & I am a christian.

-Andrew

It takes a lifetime to die.

You confuse me with some of your points, but I will try to address each one.

*Remove all mentions of God or religion from text books and the pledge of allegiance
School instruction concerning religion is fine in a learning context. To understand history, society, art, etc. you need to know about all the religions that were influential. It's when you promote one religion as "correct" over another or over non-belief that you are going over the line. Would you be ticked off if a teacher tried to push Wiccan beliefs on your child ... not in a instructional context but rather in a "you need to believe and practice this" way?
And the pledge of allegiance was without god reference until the 1950s Read here ( http://www.religioustolerance.org/nat_pled.htm ) for information about this.

*No more Golden Rule...thats one's a No-No, because it came from the bible
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you was a concept around long before the bible.

*The moral code, practically all of it came from the Bible
Not sure what moral code you are referring to here. Acting morally did not come just from the bible and the bible only.

*Better not teach abstinance, the only western religion that promotes it it Christianity
Abstinance is a smart, safe concept for safety and medical reasons with or without religious support.

*While were at it, how about the teachers can't talk about ANY religion ([sarcasm]were not going to single out Christianity now are we [/sarcasm]
A teacher can not promote any religion, but they can talk about it in an instructional manner with equal treatment given to all religions being discussed.

*Kids can no longer pray, talk or do anything remotly related to any religion
Read my earlier post. Kids can talk, pray, wear religious clothing, carry religious materials, organize religious clubs etc. They have the right to express their beliefs just like they have the right to not be forced to participate in religious practices they don't believe in.

*Give up our basic right, freedom of speech
This one comes out of left field! What are you trying to say here?

quote:

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Do unto others as you would have them do unto you was a concept around long before the bible.

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Ha! The Bible was written about 2,500 years ago...

The bible was written over a period of over one thousand years. Not just "about 2500 years ago", its a collection of different writings by different people. Its very likely that many of the stories in the bible were passed around long before the Christian faith was started, and therefor were infact written, or at least created before the bible was. But in my oppinion, it would be stupid to credit the bible with something like "do unto others..." perhaps thats where the exact words come from, but anyone who isn't naturaly a bad person, doesn't need the bible to be nice to other people.

Ya, I know about that, I guess I'm just defending myself, oh well, your religion is your religion, and I don't really care about that...oh well...

It amazes me how the Aslyum can go though 60 replies in a thread and have no bickering, swearing or degrading comments that have to be filtered out.

Yeah, take that you heathen..
Anyways, I have a question for all those that do "believe". When one dies, do you believe that they live on in another life? A life in heaven, persumably free of time, like God himself. Do we continue to learn and grow once we die? If we don't, what is the use of those seriously mentally handicaped, or infants so young, who would never understand what has happened, and would never appreciate where they are. Or, if we do, then persumably after an infinate amount of time, we'd have an infinate amount of knowledge, no one would be the same as they were on earth, but everyone would eventually accumulate the same experiences and knowledge, and we'd all essentially think, and act exactally the same. Perhaps we'd be perfect. But no diversity, no one is special, nothing can exist that people don't like, or it would be unperfect, and without something to dislike, nothing could be likeable. Heaven doesn't seem very appealing anymore. What do you think?

Personally, I don't think that there is a "life after death". Science can't prove or disprove the bible, or torah, or qu'ran, but we do know that everything we learn, see, experience. Everything we touch, taste, smell. Everyone we know, everyone we love, this is because of activity in our brian, an organ that gets damaged, and loses these memories, and eventually dies. An organ that once dead, no longer gathers and prcesses information for us anymore. Its not a soul that remembers for you, or determines whats on your mind, its your mind itself. Once dead, everything you've ever done lives on, but in the memories of others. All thats left of you is your legacy, not your physical presence.
Personal oppinions of course, as I'm sure the bible leaves room for this (it seems to leave room for a lot of things, eh?).

- Dan -

No your not...go away...or get a life...

In the words of an inmate (I forgot who):

"Create beutifull things. Or kill yourself. Either way the world should benifit"

This quote applies to you...

Ok, back on the subject:

I think that you have a soul, and the after you die it goes to heaven and you get a new body...Christianity is based on faith, it's not a seeing is beleiving, and I think that it happens to be one of the most tolerant religions out their.

beekay, i do see what you're saying, and there is some validity there to a certain extent, tho i think you're incorrect. i would, howver, completely agree with you if you can do one thing for me: find me documented instances where over a fairly short period of time a country/city/area has been transformed by prayer and following of allah, ra, or anyone other deity besides God in a christian sense.

chris


KAIROSinteractive

So...to Fig...how can all things have souls? Very easily, actually. It should come to you as no big surprise that all things contain energy. You can change its form, but it is still there. So go a bit further with that idea...and if God created the universe, then all things are 'God-created', irregardless of what form they currently have. Thus, along the lines of this reasoning alone, all things must have souls. My people call them spirits.

To vogon.poet....I think I know that writing style....correct me if I am wrong. And if not, then to use your first posts here for such inane comments, esp. the 'racist' remark, is uncalled for. Please think about the impact that your words have before you post - dig?

And last, but not least, to Dan - if you read through my posts, then you already know my answer to your question. Yes. You are aware that energy can be 'imprinted' right? Maybe our 'souls' (or spirits, or whatever you want to call it) are imprinted from our experiences, our feelings, our beliefs. I think so.

As for those who are born handicapped, etc. well, it's hard to see (understand) something when you can't see the whole picture, right? Maybe it's something along these lines. Since we humans don't have the current capability to 'see' what God can see (if he exists), then it is most probable that we can't understand why such things happen, or why they are necessary.

Here is some solid support for the Bible:

http://www.deoxy.org/h_kaku1.htm

The six dimensions would go to heavan and hell, since they would only have three dimenstions (no time)

Insider, why would I hate him?

If there is a god, he takes no responsibility for his creations. Most people on this planet suffer horribly, yet he does nothing.

Why is there evil in a universe that a god created? He IS all powerful and all knowing. God knew about everything one would consider evil eons before it occured. And yet he lets it happen anyhow.

How could a being create us, endow us with free will and intellect by design, yet then condemn those who use that free will and intellect to conclude he doesn't exist; to an eternity of damnation. He fails us, we pay the penalty.

In fact, I couldn't imagine a supreme, compassionate being who would create a place like Hell or purgatory in the first place. All I can conclude is that either there is no Christian god, or he is the biggest prick that ever was.

i find it interesting that us not believing something, most people (not necessarily those in here as but the general populace) simply because they've never even taken the time to consider it or investigate it, is the result of someone else's failing. you said it yourself, its your intellect and free will. not meant in a condemning way at all, simply observational.

chris


KAIROSinteractive

Well St. Seneca then I guess all parents fall in that catagory, as well, according to your thesis. What if God wants to help, but knows better to let his 'children' their own free will, to grow? In that case, it doesn't make him something terrible, quite the contrary. To do otherwise, would be to sufficate his children, and to never allow them to learn and grow on thier own. I think that is called tyranny...

[This message has been edited by WebShaman (edited 05-16-2002).]

Pardon me while I break character, and smack vogon.poet, whoever it is.

*slams vogon.poet into a wall* that's for defamation (sp) of VP's character.
*slaps vogon.poet around with a trout* that's for Doc.
*kicks vogon.poet in the stomach* that's for the Asylum.
*backhands vogon.poet across the face* and that's for me. Racist comments like that one have NO place in a forum such as this. If you have something you'd like to say, you can email me about it - raptor@eyeball-design.com

K, you may all go back to your discussion. While I'm at it, I guess I'll post my thoughts. I don't really have a religion (never liked the idea of following something because somebody tells me to) but I do have my beliefs. I believe in a God, whoever/whatever s/he may be. I'm iffy on the creation idea, but I still have a lot to learn in my life before I form *all* of my beliefs

$.02

i'm locking this thread here and now...


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