Preserved Topic: Perpetuum mobile (Page 2 of 2)

I'm not saying the Law is wrong

think of the words

if Energy can be produced .. then what does that mean? it was?????

sheesh .. most of you are either not seeing what I'm saying or just trying to make me look stupid .. I don't need help in that category .. I do that by myself .. when need be

nevermind .. I'm just going to leave this thread alone .. like I told myself to do a few posts back .. good day





[This message has been edited by RammStein (edited 03-08-2002).]

:edit:



[This message has been edited by silence (edited 03-08-2002).]

Ramm - we see what you are saying. What *we* are saying is that no matter how you want to try and play with the words to make it means something different, it doesn't cahnge the facts or the principles involoved.

Period.

it has been found experimentally that the internal energy of a system may be changed either by doing work on the system or by heating it. Whereas we may know how the energy transfer has occurred (because we can see if a weight has been raised or lowered in the surroundings, indicating transfer of enery by doing work, or if ice has melted in the surroundings, indicating transfer of energy has heat), the system is blind to the mode employed. Heat and work are equivalent ways of changing a system's internal energy. A system is like a bank: it accepts deposits in either currency, but stores its reserves as internal energy. It is also found experimentally that, if a system is isolated from it's surroundings, then no change in internal energy takes place. We cannot use a system to do work, leave it isolated for a month and then come back expecting to finding it restored to it's original state and ready to do the same work again. The evidence of this property is that no perpetual motion machine of the first kind (a machine that works without consuming fuel or some other source of energy) has ever been built.
This is the first law, the consequence of the above:

AE=0
(A=delta=variation)

the total variation of energy between any instants of time in a isolated system is always zero. Aka, the sum of all energies is always the same.
this universe is currently "considered" as an isolated environment
the second law states an even deeper thing, but that is going out of the issue here

ramm, i can see what you are thinking, but even in relativity terms, the laws stay the same, the only thing to change is the point of view

"Lisa, get in here! In this house we obey the laws of Thermodynamics!!!"

You tell em Arthemis.

And HS, you bastard, i was just about to say that!

It`s beautiful day in the Asylum.

Today`s word is Entrophy..

so, if
"Energy can neither be created nor destroyed"--only transferred or changed
and,
"if a system is isolated from it's surroundings, then no change in internal energy takes place"
and,
"this universe is currently "considered" as an isolated environment"
then,
everything was, is, and will continue to be recycled ad infinitum
perpetually
duh

obviously.

I won an entrophy once, but it fell apart...

I actually think the first one is better(realisticaly-wise), and it looks better in general for some reason I cant explain.
(also I think Rammstein, copped he was wrong but didnt want to admit it)

- Hugh

icklepix

The first is for the King, the second for the joker!

Ok

*smacks reitsma's head against the wall* Ahhh...that felt better



JK