Topic awaiting preservation: My New Backup Solution - Is It Safe?

My previous backup solution involved the following:

1. Automatically backing up all my data nightly to a spare drive in a removable tray. Failure of one drive and I'd still have my data. In the event of a tornado or 2nd-floor cattle stampede, I could yank out the backup drive and run.

2. Monthly burning of my data to CD/DVD.


However, my photography, which is the most important data I have right now, is currently over 26GB. And that will be climbing quickly. I've run out of space on the backup drive and it's way too much to be burning to DVD all the time.

So, I was considering a new rotation scheme using only HDs. I swung by Fry's a few days ago just to see what drives were going for these days and happened upon a one-day sale: 200GB Seagates for $70 after rebates. There was no way I could pass that up, so I got 3.

Here's my plan:

1. I install one drive, which we'll call Data, dedicated solely to holding my data. 200 GB should be good for a couple years. By that time, they'll have even bigger drives.

2. I install a 2nd drive in a removable tray. I call it Backup A. Everything on Data is copied to Backup A nightly. In the event of drive failure, I have, at most, a 24-hour-old backup, like before.

3. Once a week, I remove Backup A via the removable tray and replace it with Backup B (drive #3), also in a tray. I take Backup A to an offsite location. In the event of a catastrophe, I have, at most, a 7-day-old archive.

4. A week later, I swap B for A. Rinse. Repeat.


Question: Why do I not ghost them or create a mirrored RAID?
Answer: If something goes nutso, I don't want it instantly reflected on the second drive.

Question: Why not use tape?
Answer:: Very slow, especially when I have to be there to swap out tapes. Also expensive after buying all the tapes I'll need.


My current concept I am happy with. My question concerns the swapping of the drives.

Before I swap drives, I power down. After booting back up, the new drive is recognized just fine. The drive I removed, of course, is listed as offline. Here is a view of the three relevant drives as seen in the Disk Management console (Windows 2000).

I have assigned both Backup A and B the drive letter X, so my backup software always finds them in the same place. And I only have one of them in there at a time, so there's no conflict there.

But is my removing drives alternately like this a safe practice? Windows appears to handle it fine, but am I setting myself up for some kind of problem?

Incidentally, I know I can get external USB drive enclosures that can be hot-swapped, but I'd rather not a) slow things down, b) spend more money, and c) take up more desk space when I can just use these nifty drive trays.



(Edited by Wes on 05-23-2004 18:50)

wow.... your one nervous bugger. My last drives just fried... and you know what? Life goes on anyway... Amazing!


[antique sigs are us]

If I lose my photography, that's thousands of dollars in travel, expenses and sales down the drain with absolutely no way to recover it.

I'd also be in violation of a current writing/photography contract that must be fulfilled by the end of the year. I'll be photographing 50 sites and attractions in the coming months; if I lost my photos in November, reshooting and rewriting everything in 4 weeks would be an impossibility, and I'd be liable for thousands of dollars. Life would not simply go on.

Nervous? Absolutely.

Since HD have moving parts, they have a higher risk on going fucked than, say, a DVD-R.

__________________________________
Something else

Sexy Demoness cel

indeed - I'd still burn everything to a dvd regularly (every half year).

But then, I'd also burn all new files to dvd each time... you can't have to many copies, and even at 4 bucks a dvd, a full backup (on a mere 5 dvds) is only 20 bucks. If you got this automated enough so that all you need to do is plug in the next empty dvd and take out the old one and close the drive, doing these backups regularly would be a lot easier.

Hard drives are fine, if you don't move them to much. AS alevice said, they have moving parts, and don't like to transported for eternity.

...pansy...



That sounds like a nice gig though. And for the record, I would second the dvd back up. I wouldent think you would need to back up the 26 gigs of photos ever single time you back up to dvd though... And if you just burned your new files to DVD, and kept everything on the back up drives... That should not be a big deal. I think you are pretty well covered.


[antique sigs are us]

Let me clarify. I'm not asking about the validity of my backup solution. (Incidentally, DVDs will play a role in the long-term. Eventually, maybe tape.)

What I'm asking about is the safety of swapping the drives; does anyone see any problems there?

I know that the trays for those hot swap jobs break all the time, probably just with cheap ones. I'd say your hard disks will be fine though, just dont juggle them about, maybe put padding in the trays.

When it comes to backing up your OS, complete with all the tweaks and modifications you have made, Norton Ghost 2003 is worth every penny.

I keep my OS and programs on one hard drive and my data on another physical drive.

The OS is ghosted onto the other drive and then backed up on DVD - my largest ghost is about 2GIG.

The data are backedup incrementally on DVD.

I also cross backup certain files over the home network.

Make sure you keep important backups off site in case your house burns down!

The trays I have are well-made and I'm sure to handle the drives carefully.

My concern is with possible system problems caused by Windows always finding an installed drive missing (and weekly switching which one is missing).

If you want to go even further you can add another level of protection by subscribing to online storage.

This gives you more source for backups as well as access from anywhere in the world.

>tap, tap<

Is this thing on?

Man, this is kind of funny.

Wes, it shouldn't be a problem.
As long as it's a temporary solution that will last only a few months.
Personally, I wouldn't trust your new method past a year with the same harddrives.

Wes, might want to look into Spin Rite for another level of security. If I was in your shoes, I would invest the $90.

(Edited by warjournal on 05-24-2004 17:27)

Hi Wes,

I can appreciate your paranoia.

I don't see why there should be any problems regarding Windows' handling of the swap-outs, and as long as you handle them with a degree of care, the drives themselve should last quite a while.

This is not, however, as much of a risk as it once was. The original term 'crash' was usually applied to the rather unpleasant result of a drive head gouging the platter during transport of a hard drive. To address this very issue, all hard drives were manufactured to literally 'autopark' the head when not in immediate use. Things have become even more sophisticated over the years. If they had not, laptops would never survive more than a week!

Desktop hard drives are admittedly not designed for the same purpose as laptop hard drives, but...

Keep up the practice of shutting down your machine before removing the drive, keep the drive in a static-proof bag when not installed, and then in a suitably shock-absorbent container, and avoid the obvious dangers of humidity, heat, and extreme cold.
I very much doubt you'll have problems with the longevity of the drives.
___

I'll explain:

In my day-to-day work life I'm forever transferring various components from one machine to another (including hard drives). On top of this, the machines themselves are bounced about from gig to gig, shoved into place on the rig, then pulled out on the de-rig - gigs in places where sometimes the only access is via a torturous array of stairs and ramps, etc.

Now, as much as we try to handle our equipment with care, there are just times when you can't be bothered to take EVERY single precaution, or when the wheel snaps off the trolley, or when the bottom falls out of the cardboard box, or when an unstable table developes an affinity for gravity.

Even without the odd high-impact incident or wildly abandoned disregard for the dangers of static (shock horror), the equipment sees an awful lot of rough handling on the part of clients, or when sliding around on a journey in the back of a half-loaded van, made worse still by the state of London's roads.

The point is that through all the harsh treatment and extreme usage our hard drives receive, there are only a couple of machines without their original drives - and they are so old they had less than 10GB each!
___

So, I would say that your solution poses no problems beyond practicality:

It is currently possible to get USB2.0 adapters and external cases. USB 2.0 offers a remarkable transfer rate (about 480Mbps). This is by no means slow even for large backups, but I can relate to the eternal battle for desktop space.

26GB?!? Why not just back-up incrementally? If you only back up the files that have been added or changed, you can avoid the long backup times and reduce the amount of wear on the drives themselves (so prolonging their usage life).

If cost wasn't such an issue, you could always buy a couple of 1TB external hard drives for the cost of a small home? hehe



Sorry for the long answer. I had twenty minutes to kill before leaving the office.

_______________________________
Seek not truth with deceitful intent...
...for that way lies the seed of dissent.

(Edited by White Hawk on 05-24-2004 18:46)

OK, now I'm getting answers that more closely address my question, thank you.

No one has provided any Disk Management horror stories so far and I haven't found any through Googling so far, so I feel there probably won't be any problems with the disk swapping.

I disagree that the HDs won't be safe for more than a few months. There shouldn't be much wear from copying, as most of the data remains unchanged most of the time. Also, HDs are much more durable than they used to be, as White Hawk pointed out. When they're taken offsite, they'll be well boxed, taken on a short, quick trip, and stored in a controlled environment.

As for the practicality of an external USB vs. a hard drive in a tray, I don't see any real difference as long as the removable-tray method works.

quote:

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26GB?!? Why not just back-up incrementally?

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That's exactly what I'd be doing. My software just copies over what's changed and added, archiving the last X number of old files just in case. I certainly wouldn't have it create a new, full copy every time. I'd run out of space in less than a week.

Wes,

From my own experience, i have used cheap drive bays, and as a result i have had 3 HD suffer lost data, this was mainly as a result of power spikes rather than OS related problems.

You have every right to be paranoid, and as your research has shown, you should be safe, but if i might add a little bit of advice, make sure that you have adequate power for your system to cater for the extra drives and make sure you also have a good cooling system in place also as the excessive heat generated by 2 large HD's could possibly lead to other problems.

That's cool, Wes - should have assumed as much about your backup method really.

Axleclarkeuk has made a fair point about cooling, and 550W power supplies are fairly cheap nowadays. You can never be too cautious, huh?

_______________________________

Seek not truth with deceitful intent...
...for that way lies the seed of dissent.
_______________________________

The only thing I could mention is watch that you don't accidently take out the drive with the swap file on it. Windows will cease to boot properly when this happens and it can be a huge pain in the ass to fix.

__________________________
"Show me a sane person and I will cure him for you."-Carl Jung
Eagles may fly high, but beavers don't get sucked into jet engines.
tj333- the semi-Christ

Forgive me, Wes. But all I can think of when reading the title of this thread is dental torture and it has me reaching for a bottle of clove oil.

: . . DHTML Slice Puzzle : . . . : Justice 4 Pat Richard : . .

Bugs -- funny thing is, thing thing told me I looked like Dustin Hoffman.

Cooling shouldn't be a problem. I've got two fans blowing directly across 4 of my drives (2 in a RAID for video editing, the sytem drive and the data drive) and the removable bay for the backup drive has its own little fan. There's also a fan in the back, blowing hot air out, plus the processor fan and the power-supply fan.

The adequacy of my power supply was a big concern for me in this, and I learned the importance of each of the voltage rails' amperage capacity over the wattage rating of the whole supply. Clear info was hard to find, but after my calculations, I should have adequate power.

Axle -- Were you using InClose bays? They seem to be the most common, and the kind I'm using.

Wes, i am not sure of the brand, but they cheap plastic bays ans the handle kept falling off as it would not seat properly.

I found this while trying to do a little digging for you http://austinlug.org/archives/alg/2002-05/msg00362.html , it seems your solution is favored by others, so i figure your option is a safe one.