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Gilbert Nolander Maniac (V) Inmate From: Washington DC Insane since: May 2002	posted 08-02-2004 17:07 quote: War in Iraq 'preventing efforts to stop Sudan genocide' - The study, to be published today, said that the war in Iraq had prevented effective planning for military intervention which could have bolstered diplomatic efforts to prevent the bloodshed, which has driven more than a million people from their homes. It seems the war in Iraq, like all wars, have had negative effects that were not anticipated. I was wondering what other ill-effects the war on Iraq has caused, in your opinions. And also if you think we will ever learn, globally, that war and violence are not solutions to problems. In school and as children, we are taught that fighting is not the answer to problems, but when we get older, our governments say differently. They seem to me to be immature children, trying to solve the problems of the world by using bullying tactics. I know that many people think the only way to get rid of tyrants and murderer's is to murder or capture them, but when do we, as a society start to set a good example for the world and end the violence? Do you think it is even possible though to end the violence without ourselves being ended by a country that does not want to end the violence? And even if there is a country that wants to take away our freedom's, should we still stand strong and not bear arms against our enemies, even if our freedom is threatened. Hope this makes some sort of sense. < Ozone Quotes >
Ramasax Paranoid (IV) Inmate From: PA, US Insane since: Feb 2002	posted 08-03-2004 04:31 quote: Do you think it is even possible though to end the violence without ourselves being ended by a country that does not want to end the violence? No, no, and no. quote: And even if there is a country that wants to take away our freedom's, should we still stand strong and not bear arms against our enemies, even if our freedom is threatened. What kind of assinine question is this? Sorry, yeah, let's lie down and let our enemies kill us. I fear for the future of the civilized world crippling itself with policital correctness and the "peace at any cost" mentality. Stand strong and not bear arms, lol, you are nothing but a dirty Kuffar to them. Oh yes, the ill effects that the war in Iraq has caused. Pessimism never won a war, and neither does biased reporting and a nation that is not willing to be honest with itself. About Sudan and the raping of blacks by arab muslims, see a trend here? Those people never did anything to the arab world like the evil US, why is it they are being persecuted? Could it be the final solution of our time? Anyways, with Britain and the US so busy in Iraq, why the hell doesn't anyone else stand up and help out for a change. No, they just criticize us for trying to police the world. THIS IS WHY, because nobody else will do it. And here we are again talking about 'diplomatic efforts' with religious zealots. It just does not work that way folks. What's it gonna take for people to understand this mindset? There is no 'equal' coexistence. Ramasax
Gilbert Nolander Maniac (V) Inmate From: Washington DC Insane since: May 2002	posted 08-03-2004 14:10 Just to let you know, I don't believe any of those things, I was just thinking about it, and thought it might be an interesting conversation. I was just trying to prove a point that if we do not protect ourselves, we will be destructed. If we did not spend money on military we would be obliterated. If seems to me to be quite ironic how people who are against the war and our use of violence do not seem to realize the people that we have helped. When we went after Al Qaeda, we also took down the horrible regime of the Taliban. And when we went after Saddam for Weapons of Mass Destruction, whether or not the threat actually existed, we removed Iraq of a murderous group of controlling thugs, giving them back the chance to become an important country like they were before Saddam took control. And your point about us policing the world is a good one. It seems like people bitch about us policing the world, but when something horrible happens, they are like...."Where is America and Britain now."
Ramasax Paranoid (IV) Inmate From: PA, US Insane since: Feb 2002	posted 08-04-2004 04:36 quote: I was just trying to prove a point that if we do not protect ourselves, we will be destructed. If we did not spend money on military we would be obliterated. In that case, I agree 150%. We have no choice but to fight, p-e-r-i-o-d. If there is another alternative, I am all ears, but as of yet all I've heard is leftist rhetoric about a supposed religion of peace, a war for oil, the "Freedom Fighters" for Iraq as a certain fat-ass says (AKA Terrorist scum, many of which are foreigners) blah blah blah. But hey, peace at any cost. The part that threw me off was the comment about "immature children" and "bullying tactics." I do agree with the immature children comment, but to me that is certain politicians on the other side who will do and say anything to 'take back America' and impose their socialist utopia (re: Bill Clinton's wonderful speech at the Democratic National Convention). I just wish the media would call a spade a spade for once. As far as Sudan is concerned, it is a damn shame that we are always the ones who have to step in to do things, either by military force or billions of dollars in aid directly or funneled through the UN, which I might add is totally taken for granted. Then of course, the inevitable outcome is that we are criticized for everything we do, even though we are the MOST generous nation on Earth. I am one American who is fed up, why the hell do we bother. Either way, we are the bad guys. Well, maybe John Kerry can change all that. Oh wait, no, he is for sending more troops to Iraq, at least last I heard, but you know he has a new position every week depending on the polls and where he happens to be campaigning at that particular time. And George Bush, well, he may not be the greatest, and I pray to God that he would lock down the Mexican border, but I see him as our best hope. Did you know that many of the people they catch coming across the border are of Arab descent? How many are getting through that we don't know about, using the water stations we placed in the friggin desert on account of liberals, and carrying God only knows what. But hey, peace and PC at any cost... And you see how they "reported" in the article you posted. Rather than give a factual account of what is happening over there; Arab Muslims raping and killing blacks (both Muslim & Christian) to breed them out, driving them from their homes, the lack of action by a Muslim government, etc, they take focus off it and shift it to speculation about how it is our fault that no one has been paying any mind to it. Hell, they don't even mention the words "Islam" or "Muslim" in there, why is that, considering that yet again Muslims are at the epicenter of another tragic happening? In any case, we're two nations. Why don't the French and the Germans and all the other European nations get off their 'superior' asses and do something for a goddam change. The first line basically says it all: quote: Britain and America's preoccupation with Iraq has *blocked* international efforts to end genocide in the war-torn Darfur region of Sudan What have we blocked? How have we blocked it? No, it just means that we are currently occupied and, once again, somebody else needs to step to the friggin' plate. We are 2 nations, and roughly 28 others out of how many? There are 191 members in the UN, so where are they? We are criticized for policing the world, well do something to change that. Sometimes I get the feeling they'd rather attack us from some of the shit I see, hear, and read from around the world. What do I know though, I am just an ignorant American fool. Sorry for my bitter tone, not directed toward you or anyone in particular, but I am in a bitter mood when it comes to current events. I don't hate the French, Germans, or any nation for that matter, but I do dislike their governments, just as many of them hate ours. Just wanted to point that out so that certain individuals here don't think I am a total right-wing nutjob, but it's more than likely too late for that. Oh well, I always speak my mind regardless of what label is applied. Ramasax (Edited by Ramasax on 08-04-2004 04:51)

Topic awaiting preservation: Iraq Vs. Sudan Genocide\$

Author

Thread

Gilbert Nolander
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: Washington DC
Insane since: May 2002

posted 08-02-2004 17:07

quote:
War in Iraq 'preventing efforts to stop Sudan genocide' - The study, to be published today, said that the war in Iraq had prevented effective planning for military intervention which could have bolstered diplomatic efforts to prevent the bloodshed, which has driven more than a million people from their homes.

It seems the war in Iraq, like all wars, have had negative effects that were not anticipated.
I was wondering what other ill-effects the war on Iraq has caused, in your opinions.
And also if you think we will ever learn, globally, that war and violence are not solutions to problems.

In school and as children, we are taught that fighting is not the answer to problems, but when we get older, our governments say differently. They seem to me to be immature children, trying to solve the problems of the world by using bullying tactics. I know that many people think the only way to get rid of tyrants and murderer's is to murder or capture them, but when do we, as a society start to set a good example for the world and end the violence? Do you think it is even possible though to end the violence without ourselves being ended by a country that does not want to end the violence? And even if there is a country that wants to take away our freedom's, should we still stand strong and not bear arms against our enemies, even if our freedom is threatened.

Hope this makes some sort of sense.

< Ozone Quotes >

Ramasax
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: PA, US
Insane since: Feb 2002

posted 08-03-2004 04:31

quote:
Do you think it is even possible though to end the violence without ourselves being ended by a country that does not want to end the violence?

No, no, and no.

quote:
And even if there is a country that wants to take away our freedom's, should we still stand strong and not bear arms against our enemies, even if our freedom is threatened.

What kind of assinine question is this? Sorry, yeah, let's lie down and let our enemies kill us. I fear for the future of the civilized world crippling itself with policital correctness and the "peace at any cost" mentality. Stand strong and not bear arms, lol, you are nothing but a dirty Kuffar to them.

Oh yes, the ill effects that the war in Iraq has caused. Pessimism never won a war, and neither does biased reporting and a nation that is not willing to be honest with itself. About Sudan and the raping of blacks by arab muslims, see a trend here? Those people never did anything to the arab world like the evil US, why is it they are being persecuted? Could it be the final solution of our time?

Anyways, with Britain and the US so busy in Iraq, why the hell doesn't anyone else stand up and help out for a change. No, they just criticize us for trying to police the world. THIS IS WHY, because nobody else will do it.

And here we are again talking about 'diplomatic efforts' with religious zealots. It just does not work that way folks. What's it gonna take for people to understand this mindset? There is no 'equal' coexistence.

Ramasax

Gilbert Nolander
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: Washington DC
Insane since: May 2002

posted 08-03-2004 14:10

Just to let you know, I don't believe any of those things, I was just thinking about it, and thought it might be an interesting conversation. I was just trying to prove a point that if we do not protect ourselves, we will be destructed. If we did not spend money on military we would be obliterated.

If seems to me to be quite ironic how people who are against the war and our use of violence do not seem to realize the people that we have helped. When we went after Al Qaeda, we also took down the horrible regime of the Taliban. And when we went after Saddam for Weapons of Mass Destruction, whether or not the threat actually existed, we removed Iraq of a murderous group of controlling thugs, giving them back the chance to become an important country like they were before Saddam took control.

And your point about us policing the world is a good one. It seems like people bitch about us policing the world, but when something horrible happens, they are like...."Where is America and Britain now."

Ramasax
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: PA, US
Insane since: Feb 2002

posted 08-04-2004 04:36

quote:
I was just trying to prove a point that if we do not protect ourselves, we will be destructed. If we did not spend money on military we would be obliterated.

In that case, I agree 150%. We have no choice but to fight, p-e-r-i-o-d. If there is another alternative, I am all ears, but as of yet all I've heard is leftist rhetoric about a supposed religion of peace, a war for oil, the "Freedom Fighters" for Iraq as a certain fat-ass says (AKA Terrorist scum, many of which are foreigners) blah blah blah. But hey, peace at any cost.

The part that threw me off was the comment about "immature children" and "bullying tactics." I do agree with the immature children comment, but to me that is certain politicians on the other side who will do and say anything to 'take back America' and impose their socialist utopia (re:
Bill Clinton's wonderful speech at the Democratic National Convention). I just wish the media would call a spade a spade for once.

As far as Sudan is concerned, it is a damn shame that we are always the ones who have to step in to do things, either by military force or billions of dollars in aid directly or funneled through the UN, which I might add is totally taken for granted. Then of course, the inevitable outcome is that we are criticized for everything we do, even though we are the MOST generous nation on Earth. I am one American who is fed up, why the hell do we bother. Either way, we are the bad guys.

Well, maybe John Kerry can change all that. Oh wait, no, he is for sending more troops to Iraq, at least last I heard, but you know he has a new position every week depending on the polls and where he happens to be campaigning at that particular time.

And George Bush, well, he may not be the greatest, and I pray to God that he would lock down the Mexican border, but I see him as our best hope. Did you know that many of the people they catch coming across the border are of Arab descent? How many are getting through that we don't know about, using the water stations we placed in the friggin desert on account of liberals, and carrying God only knows what. But hey, peace and PC at any cost...

And you see how they "reported" in the article you posted. Rather than give a factual account of what is happening over there; Arab Muslims raping and killing blacks (both Muslim & Christian) to breed them out, driving them from their homes, the lack of action by a Muslim government, etc, they take focus off it and shift it to speculation about how it is our fault that no one has been paying any mind to it.

Hell, they don't even mention the words "Islam" or "Muslim" in there, why is that, considering that yet again Muslims are at the epicenter of another tragic happening? In any case, we're two nations. Why don't the French and the Germans and all the other European nations get off their 'superior' asses and do something for a goddam change.

The first line basically says it all:

quote:
Britain and America's preoccupation with Iraq has blocked international efforts to end genocide in the war-torn Darfur region of Sudan

What have we blocked? How have we blocked it? No, it just means that we are currently occupied and, once again, somebody else needs to step to the friggin' plate. We are 2 nations, and roughly 28 others out of how many? There are 191 members in the UN, so where are they? We are criticized for policing the world, well do something to change that. Sometimes I get the feeling they'd rather attack us from some of the shit I see, hear, and read from around the world.

What do I know though, I am just an ignorant American fool.

Sorry for my bitter tone, not directed toward you or anyone in particular, but I am in a bitter mood when it comes to current events. I don't hate the French, Germans, or any nation for that matter, but I do dislike their governments, just as many of them hate ours. Just wanted to point that out so that certain individuals here don't think I am a total right-wing nutjob, but it's more than likely too late for that. Oh well, I always speak my mind regardless of what label is applied.

Ramasax

(Edited by Ramasax on 08-04-2004 04:51)