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Xel Bipolar (III) Inmate From: Trumansburg, NY, USA Insane since: Nov 2002	posted 08-04-2004 02:00 Okay, long story... Sit back and relax.. It may not be entirely apparent at first as to why this is in the PS section, but it will be by the end, I promise. It didn't strike me as something "general" to put in the Ozone forum. Thanks in advance to anyone bored enough to read this. I'm relatively happy to say that I'm going off to college this fall, and since my college requires that everyone has a laptop, I've bought one, and with that comes some major accessorizing. That said, I imagine that I will be desperately in need of a wireless mouse. The criteria I have established for any would-be mouse purchase are: 1) Wireless. Duh. No base stations. 2) > or = 3 buttons. I like to do video and 3d, I need em, trust me. 3) The 2 or more buttons that are not "left-click" need to be configurable easily. The catch? My new computer is a 15" powerbook. As much as I love Mac computers, I'm having a helluva time trying to find a mouse that meets those criteria... I've come close, but not 100%. (FYI, price isn't as much of a concern here, except when I get into the Intuos talk..) So, low and behold, I come across the Intuos tablets, which come with the 2d or 4d mouse dependant on the size of tablet you get. Here are my mental considerations while debating whether or not I should get this: The pen might be handy for taking notes in class.. (a la "inkwell" technology in OSX..) + The mouse has the buttons/config I need. ++ While the pad isn't wireless, the mouse and pen are wireless to the pad. + and - The mouse needs to be used on the pad... (Slight problem.. Maybe.) - No batteries. + However... The price tag is a tad steep, of course, 200$ for a 4x5... I have very small handwriting and small strokes, I'm sure, but for the mouse, this could be a bit cramping... And getting up to 6x8 and 9x12 price range is a bit scarier. Also, I am not really an artist. I enjoy doodling at times, and have always wanted to learn to draw or paint, and love messing around with Photoshop, but I'm not capable of producing anything near up the level of most of the people here at the Asylum, though I might be up to some self-education in that respect. (I've bought some literature and hope to exercise my mind on it in some free time.) Given all of this, my background, what I'm looking for in a mouse, and the drawing/pen considerations above, would anyone tell me if I'm being especially foolish about this, will I end up rarely using the better part of the 200$ here, will it be a useful tool in my arsenal? Will the mouse space be too cramped if I simply go for the 4x5, or will I need to get something a bit pricier in order to employ it to its full effect? Would it be a nightmare to be learning to draw while using the pen instead of a pencil and paper like the rest of the sensible world? I did read the FAQ about the intuos, but it didn't really tell me anything yet that I didn't already know.. (ie It won't make you an awesome artist, gotta practice etc) Which I am fine with, but.. I don't have any large-scale computer stores near me to go test it out, and none of my friends have much information on them either... So, recommendations, suggestions, ... flames? -Xel
Amerasu Paranoid (IV) Inmate From: Canada Insane since: Jun 2002	posted 08-04-2004 02:53 Not sure if this is what you're after but I never use the mouse that came with my tablet. It's a 4 x 5 and there just isn't enough room for me. I found it was too annoying to use plus it didn't seem as responsive as a regular mouse. But that's just me and if I don't like something almost immediately, I don't want to spend time getting used to it. On the other hand, those rolling balls or mini touch mouse pads on laptops drive me mad too. When I had a laptop for work, I always plugged in a real mouse. If I had a choice between using a laptop mouse (pad) and tablet mouse, I'd get used to the tablet mouse. I think you can learn to draw using both pen and paper and a tablet. I started with pen and paper and the adjustment to a tablet was really weird (watching the screen rather than paper) but it was second nature after a couple of weeks. Now I have to force myself to draw on paper... like when I'm on holiday and don't have a computer. Practice with both if you're buying a tablet anyway Amerasu \|
Xel Bipolar (III) Inmate From: Trumansburg, NY, USA Insane since: Nov 2002	posted 08-04-2004 03:22 Hm.. Okay thanks for that Amerasu... At least now I know that the 4x5 space isn't good enough for the mouse... And you say the mouse isn't that good anyways? Hm. So far there is only 1 other mouse I've found that meets my criteria but the 2nd and 3rd buttons aren't configurable very much, they say... -Xel
Arthurio Bipolar (III) Inmate From: Insane since: Jul 2003	posted 08-04-2004 23:00 do you need that tablet for drawing or just taking notes? if notes then forget it ... you have a keyboard ... cmon it's also pointless as a replacement for a cordless mouse because it takes alot of space and is corded if i were you i'd just buy a usual corded mouse with the capabilities i need ... for example logitech's MX510 http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/products/details/FI/EN,CRID=3,CONTENTID=7982 it's even better than my mx700 which i bought before 510 came out but it's corded ..actually mx700 would be as good as corded becouse it has a charging bay all the buttons are programmable and another good thing about it is that it navigates flawlessly on any surface unless it's too glossy
Hugh Paranoid (IV) Inmate From: Dublin, Ireland Insane since: Jul 2000	posted 08-05-2004 00:22 ". . . .and another good thing about it is that it navigates flawlessly on any surface unless it's too glossy" Like a wacom ... or at least my mx500 doesnt work at all on it, which is annoying as I have a 12x12 and is a perfect surface for a mouseball.
Slime Lunatic (VI) Mad Scientist From: Massachusetts, USA Insane since: Mar 2000	posted 08-05-2004 00:45 Why do you want a wireless mouse so badly? I never had trouble with my normal wired mouse on my laptop.
Xel Bipolar (III) Inmate From: Trumansburg, NY, USA Insane since: Nov 2002	posted 08-05-2004 01:10 Arthurio said: "do you need that tablet for drawing or just taking notes? if notes then forget it ... you have a keyboard ... cmon it's also pointless as a replacement for a cordless mouse because it takes alot of space and is corded" Um. Both? Though yeah, second point taken "..actually mx700 would be as good as corded becouse it has a charging bay" Exactly what I don't want. I don't want to cart around a charging bay with me everywhere I go... Slime said: "Why do you want a wireless mouse so badly? I never had trouble with my normal wired mouse on my laptop." I deal enough with wires... From my cameras firewire to my 10+ USB devices (I have 3 USB hubs... ugh), to my 5000 different charging devices, I need to start freeing things up... So I'm looking for wireless replacements.. Portability too.. I don't want to have to unplug and wrap up a few cords every 90 minutes between classes and then plug em back in etc etc... Just seems like it would make things easier all around to have something that you just take out of your pack and it works just like that. I guess if I get a corded mouse though, the logitech 510 is high up on my list (my current mouse is logitech, love it, used it for at least 5 years so far...), and other than that, I'm looking at the BT500 by Radtech... (www.radtech.us)
Arthurio Bipolar (III) Inmate From: Insane since: Jul 2003	posted 08-06-2004 02:28 quote: Xel said: "..actually mx700 would be as good as corded becouse it has a charging bay" Exactly what I don't want. I don't want to cart around a charging bay with me everywhere I go... yeah ... thats what i meant ... i should have used 'as bad' maybe for a pc it's perfect ...but for laptop ... quite pointless quote: Hugh said: Like a wacom ... or at least my mx500 doesnt work at all on it, which is annoying as I have a 12x12 and is a perfect surface for a mouseball. wtf ... mx700 works on my wacom perfectly ... i have even used it as a mousepad ... by 'too glossy' i mean something like a jewel case, a mirror, glass, or a computer screen ... tho i'm not using my wacom as a mouse pad anymore because it isn't slippery enough.. i found something better ... a very worn out 5 year old pad ... may be a bit funny :P but i haven't found any of the new ones as comfortable .... it provides the exact ratio between glossy and slippery that i need ... if i buy a 100$ mouse ... i won't be satisfied with anything less about BT500 ... it looks good i guess ... if you can still manage without the extra buttons you seemed to need ... i have absolutely no experience with bluetooth but it's probably all good quote: Use with non-BT equipped computers require Bluetooth USB adapter - widely available. i'm assuming it isn't much a problem but you have bt on that powerbook? if not then check out where to get that adaptor thingie oh and just a general tip: when buying such things .... if possible try playing dumbuser in the store and let them show you on your laptop how to get it to work (not that you couldn't - but they don't have to know that) so that you can be sure everything works 100% - bad experiences teach alot :P
Xel Bipolar (III) Inmate From: Trumansburg, NY, USA Insane since: Nov 2002	posted 08-06-2004 03:54 quote: Arthurio said: Use with non-BT equipped computers require Bluetooth USB adapter - widely available.i'm assuming it isn't much a problem but you have bt on that powerbook? if not then check out where to get that adaptor thingieoh and just a general tip: when buying such things .... if possible tryplaying dumbuser in the store and let them show you on your laptop howto get it to work (not that you couldn't - but they don't have to knowthat) so that you can be sure everything works 100% - bad experiencesteach alot :P Yeah the laptop has BT built in... And like I said, I would probably go do what you mentioned, go play dumbperson3000 in a computer shop for mice and pen input devices, but we don't really have much of that kinda thing in my area, would have to drive quite a ways to get in range.. But that radtech company seems pretty good.. They also have good laptop shoulder bags, think I'll get the "Curve" one.. -Xel
Hugh Paranoid (IV) Inmate From: Dublin, Ireland Insane since: Jul 2000	posted 08-11-2004 18:46 yea, its fairly shit, but if I move the mouse over the "overlay" area, a whole 12" across will move the cursor the equivelant distance as if I move at about 2" on wood(I've found wood to be a great surface for them in general). It works if I have a picture under the overlay but still it isnt great and any gaps between sheets of a4s stops the mouse. for a mouse ball I would really recommend a wacom tho .. no loss of traction whatsoever no matter how fast you go. I guess if it works with your mx700 they may have improved the optics, or else wacom have changed there overlays since intuos version 1. Oh and another thing, in the interest of lag I'd always go with a ps/2 wired mouse. But to be honest I dont have any numbers or much reason to think so.

Topic awaiting preservation: Intuos, Mouse, College..? (Page 1 of 1) $Pages that link to <a href="https://ozoneasylum.com/backlink?for=22807" title="Pages that link to Topic awaiting preservation: Intuos, Mouse, College..? (Page 1 of 1)" rel="nofollow" >Topic awaiting preservation: Intuos, Mouse, College..? <span class="small">(Page 1 of 1)</span>\$

Xel
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: Trumansburg, NY, USA
Insane since: Nov 2002

posted 08-04-2004 02:00

Okay, long story... Sit back and relax.. It may not be entirely apparent at first as to why this is in the PS section, but it will be by the end, I promise. It didn't strike me as something "general" to put in the Ozone forum. Thanks in advance to anyone bored enough to read this.

I'm relatively happy to say that I'm going off to college this fall, and since my college requires that everyone has a laptop, I've bought one, and with that comes some major accessorizing. That said, I imagine that I will be desperately in need of a wireless mouse. The criteria I have established for any would-be mouse purchase are:

1) Wireless. Duh. No base stations.
2) > or = 3 buttons. I like to do video and 3d, I need em, trust me.
3) The 2 or more buttons that are *not* "left-click" need to be configurable easily.

The catch? My new computer is a 15" powerbook.

As much as I love Mac computers, I'm having a helluva time trying to find a mouse that meets those criteria... I've come close, but not 100%. (FYI, price isn't as much of a concern here, except when I get into the Intuos talk..)

So, low and behold, I come across the Intuos tablets, which come with the 2d or 4d mouse dependant on the size of tablet you get. Here are my mental considerations while debating whether or not I should get this:

The pen might be handy for taking notes in class.. (a la "inkwell" technology in OSX..) +
The mouse has the buttons/config I need. ++
While the pad isn't wireless, the mouse and pen are wireless to the pad. + and -
The mouse needs to be used *on* the pad... (Slight problem.. Maybe.) -
No batteries. +

*However*... The price tag is a tad steep, of course, 200$ for a 4x5... I have very small handwriting and small strokes, I'm sure, but for the mouse, this could be a bit cramping... And getting up to 6x8 and 9x12 price range is a bit scarier.

Also, I am not really an artist. I enjoy doodling at times, and have always wanted to learn to draw or paint, and love messing around with Photoshop, but I'm not capable of producing anything near up the level of most of the people here at the Asylum, though I might be up to some self-education in that respect. (I've bought some literature and hope to exercise my mind on it in some free time.)

Given all of this, my background, what I'm looking for in a mouse, and the drawing/pen considerations above, would anyone tell me if I'm being especially foolish about this, will I end up rarely using the better part of the 200$ here, will it be a useful tool in my arsenal? Will the mouse space be too cramped if I simply go for the 4x5, or will I need to get something a bit pricier in order to employ it to its full effect? Would it be a nightmare to be learning to draw while using the pen instead of a pencil and paper like the rest of the sensible world?

I did read the FAQ about the intuos, but it didn't really tell me anything yet that I didn't already know.. (ie It won't make you an awesome artist, gotta practice etc) Which I am fine with, but.. I don't have any large-scale computer stores near me to go test it out, and none of my friends have much information on them either...

So, recommendations, suggestions, ... flames?

-Xel

Amerasu
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Canada
Insane since: Jun 2002

posted 08-04-2004 02:53

Not sure if this is what you're after but I never use the mouse that came with my tablet. It's a 4 x 5 and there just isn't enough room for me. I found it was too annoying to use plus it didn't seem as responsive as a regular mouse. But that's just me and if I don't like something almost immediately, I don't want to spend time getting used to it. On the other hand, those rolling balls or mini touch mouse pads on laptops drive me mad too. When I had a laptop for work, I always plugged in a real mouse. If I had a choice between using a laptop mouse (pad) and tablet mouse, I'd get used to the tablet mouse.

I think you can learn to draw using both pen and paper and a tablet. I started with pen and paper and the adjustment to a tablet was really weird (watching the screen rather than paper) but it was second nature after a couple of weeks. Now I have to force myself to draw on paper... like when I'm on holiday and don't have a computer. Practice with both if you're buying a tablet anyway

Amerasu |

Xel
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: Trumansburg, NY, USA
Insane since: Nov 2002

posted 08-04-2004 03:22

Hm.. Okay thanks for that Amerasu... At least now I know that the 4x5 space isn't good enough for the mouse... And you say the mouse isn't that good anyways? Hm.

So far there is only 1 other mouse I've found that meets my criteria but the 2nd and 3rd buttons aren't configurable very much, they say...

-Xel

Arthurio
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From:
Insane since: Jul 2003

posted 08-04-2004 23:00

do you need that tablet for drawing or just taking notes?
if notes then forget it ... you have a keyboard ... cmon
it's also pointless as a replacement for a cordless mouse
because it takes alot of space and is corded

if i were you i'd just buy a usual corded mouse with the
capabilities i need ...

for example logitech's MX510
http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/products/details/FI/EN,CRID=3,CONTENTID=7982
it's even better than my mx700 which i bought before 510
came out but it's corded ..actually mx700 would be as good
as corded becouse it has a charging bay
all the buttons are programmable and another good thing
about it is that it navigates flawlessly on any surface unless
it's too glossy

Hugh
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Dublin, Ireland
Insane since: Jul 2000

posted 08-05-2004 00:22

". . . .and another good thing about it is that it navigates flawlessly on any surface unless
it's too glossy"

Like a wacom ... or at least my mx500 doesnt work at all on it, which is annoying as I have a 12x12 and is a perfect surface for a mouseball.

Slime
Lunatic (VI) Mad Scientist

From: Massachusetts, USA
Insane since: Mar 2000

posted 08-05-2004 00:45

Why do you want a wireless mouse so badly? I never had trouble with my normal wired mouse on my laptop.

Xel
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: Trumansburg, NY, USA
Insane since: Nov 2002

posted 08-05-2004 01:10

Arthurio said:
"do you need that tablet for drawing or just taking notes?
if notes then forget it ... you have a keyboard ... cmon
it's also pointless as a replacement for a cordless mouse
because it takes alot of space and is corded"

Um. Both? Though yeah, second point taken

"..actually mx700 would be as good
as corded becouse it has a charging bay"

Exactly what I don't want. I don't want to cart around a charging bay with me everywhere I go...

Slime said:
"Why do you want a wireless mouse so badly? I never had trouble with my normal wired mouse on my laptop."

I deal enough with wires... From my cameras firewire to my 10+ USB devices (I have 3 USB hubs... ugh), to my 5000 different charging devices, I need to start freeing things up... So I'm looking for wireless replacements.. Portability too.. I don't want to have to unplug and wrap up a few cords every 90 minutes between classes and then plug em back in etc etc... Just seems like it would make things easier all around to have something that you just take out of your pack and it works just like that.

I guess if I get a corded mouse though, the logitech 510 is high up on my list (my current mouse is logitech, love it, used it for at least 5 years so far...), and other than that, I'm looking at the BT500 by Radtech... (www.radtech.us)

Arthurio
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From:
Insane since: Jul 2003

posted 08-06-2004 02:28

quote:
Xel said:
"..actually mx700 would be as good
as corded becouse it has a charging bay"
Exactly what I don't want. I don't want to cart around a charging bay with me everywhere I go...

yeah ... thats what i meant ... i should have used 'as bad' maybe
for a pc it's perfect ...but for laptop ... quite pointless

quote:
Hugh said:
Like a wacom ... or at least my mx500 doesnt work at all on it, which is annoying as I have a 12x12 and is a perfect surface for a mouseball.

wtf ... mx700 works on my wacom perfectly ... i have even used it as a mousepad ... by 'too glossy' i mean something like a jewel case, a mirror, glass, or a computer screen ... tho i'm not using my wacom as a mouse pad anymore because it isn't slippery enough.. i found something better ... a very worn out 5 year old pad ... may be a bit funny :P but i haven't found any of the new ones as comfortable .... it provides the exact ratio between glossy and slippery that i need ... if i buy a 100$ mouse ... i won't be satisfied with anything less

about BT500 ... it looks good i guess ... if you can still manage without the extra buttons you seemed to need ... i have absolutely no experience with bluetooth but it's probably all good

quote:
Use with non-BT equipped computers require Bluetooth USB adapter - widely available.

i'm assuming it isn't much a problem but you have bt on that powerbook? if not then check out where to get that adaptor thingie

oh and just a general tip: when buying such things .... if possible try playing dumbuser in the store and let them show you on your laptop how to get it to work (not that you couldn't - but they don't have to know that) so that you can be sure everything works 100% - bad experiences teach alot :P

Xel
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: Trumansburg, NY, USA
Insane since: Nov 2002

posted 08-06-2004 03:54

quote:
Arthurio said:
Use with non-BT equipped computers require Bluetooth USB adapter - widely available.i'm assuming it isn't much a problem but you have bt on that powerbook? if not then check out where to get that adaptor thingieoh and just a general tip: when buying such things .... if possible tryplaying dumbuser in the store and let them show you on your laptop howto get it to work (not that you couldn't - but they don't have to knowthat) so that you can be sure everything works 100% - bad experiencesteach alot :P

Yeah the laptop has BT built in... And like I said, I would probably go do what you mentioned, go play dumbperson3000 in a computer shop for mice and pen input devices, but we don't really have much of that kinda thing in my area, would have to drive quite a ways to get in range..

But that radtech company seems pretty good.. They also have good laptop shoulder bags, think I'll get the "Curve" one..

-Xel

Hugh
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Dublin, Ireland
Insane since: Jul 2000

posted 08-11-2004 18:46

yea, its fairly shit, but if I move the mouse over the "overlay" area, a whole 12" across will move the cursor the equivelant distance as if I move at about 2" on wood(I've found wood to be a great surface for them in general). It works if I have a picture under the overlay but still it isnt great and any gaps between sheets of a4s stops the mouse. for a mouse ball I would really recommend a wacom tho .. no loss of traction whatsoever no matter how fast you go.

I guess if it works with your mx700 they may have improved the optics, or else wacom have changed there overlays since intuos version 1.

Oh and another thing, in the interest of lag I'd always go with a ps/2 wired mouse. But to be honest I dont have any numbers or much reason to think so.