Topic awaiting preservation: My New "Logo" (Page 1 of 1)

I guess I would've put this in the Photoshop forum, except for the fact I didn't use Photoshop at all to make it. Anyway, I'm just sharing and curious for any feedback concerning my new "logo." I plan to use it on my business cards, Web site, etc.

I know it's rather detailed for a "logo," but I'm going for a whole roadside neon motif, which will be reflected in the Web site. Besides, it can be incrementally simplified for any number of uses where practicality is a concern, while still maintaining its identifying shape and theme. (One example.) It can even be simplified down to grayscale or B&W for faxing, etc. And scaling is no issue since, believe it or don't, it's entirely vector.

I love it.


Is there any one particular reference you used for the set up, or just the general feel of that type of sign?

As logos go, it is certainly a bit busy, but it fits perfectly with its intended use, so that is irrelevent.

There are a couple of minor things that bother me:

- the way the 'T' and the little nubs of neon go beyond the end of the field they are in. I am guessing there is real world precedent for this, but it just doesn't feel right.

- the arc of the 'rea'. I would like to see it either more or less defined - it doesn't really look like it is curved until you check to see if it really is...it just seems uneven instead.

Depending on the usage it may benefit from a 2-3 pixel outline of black or black-ish color.

Other than that, it's great. Well balanced, has an energetic kind of feel, nicely colored, etc.

Nice log Wes.

Here's a good test of a logo:
1. Print it at the size you plan to use it (for example, business card size)

2. Make a xerox copy of the priint.

3. FAX the copy to yourself.


If the logo still contains the elements you are trying to create, you have a winner.

.



-- not necessarily stoned... just beautiful.

I certainly do like the premise but as DL points out the neon tubing (I presume) before and after the T's plays with the brain a bit... at least mine. The negative space on the last 'T' looks kinda like a stylized 'F' or maybe an 'E.'

The other thing that throws me just a bit and maybe I'm being too picky. The horizontal on the last 'T' wraps around the edge of the sign but on the first 'T' ... your 'W' covers that wrap around... which to my eye makes the last 'T' look quite out of balance.

But I really do like it.... dark background.... animate those arrow heads..... vvvrmmm vvvrrmmm. =)

VERY eye catching!

Never let your sense of morals get in the way of doing what's right.
Isaac Asimov
US science fiction novelist & scholar (1920 - 1992)

Brilliant! It suits its purpose beautifully.

The projecting 'T' and neon tubes make me think that the sign is one face of a little square or triangle stand of some sort, and wrapping around to become the opposite-side detail of the next face - an illusion enhanced by the gradient in your fully-detailed version. It generates hidden dimensions, IMO.

I like the slight curve of 'TREAT' - but then I'm biased, as I do that sort of thing all the time.

I agree about having a dark outline, but think it might make it a little too comical where now it has the right degree of eccentric charm.

I get a real 'fifties gameshow with dash of old diner sign' feel from it (whatever that means).

Sorry, I can't find anything to criticise.

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I get a real 'fifties gameshow with dash of old diner sign' feel from it (whatever that means).

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That's exactly what I was going for! Yay!

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Is there any one particular reference you used for the set up, or just the general feel of that type of sign?

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I love the old Googie style signage and have been soaking a lot of it in the past year or so, photographing a bit as well. I definitely wanted that look and pretty much put together the major elements used in most of the motel signs I encountered. (The example I'm about to show you will appear to be very close to what I ended up with, but I only realized it after the fact.)

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... the way the 'T' and the little nubs of neon go beyond the end of the field they are in.

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They're meant to curve around to the other side of the sign, as WH guessed. See this example. It's a little difficult to express that without more shading, and it's hard to shade glowing neon. I can probably punch up the rounded glare you see at the edges of the main blue signboard -- that may help. Without the neon on those accents, they're more obviously shaded, but when the neon lights them up, they appear flatter.

My original desire was to render the sign with perspective, like the photo above but not as dramatic. Would've shown the curvature and the effect of the T's curving around to presumably become the T's on the other side. Unfortunately, Illustrator's 3D abilities still fall far short of being able to do that with any accuracy at all when working with multiple elements and I could never find a way to import my paths into something like Moray for POV-Ray (which I would've had to learn anyway). Maybe in the future.

The arc of the TREAT I played with for quite a while. Without the arc, it was very blocky. More arc and I was left with a dead space I couldn't seem to fill without adding more neon or something, making it just a little too busy. And seeing as the R and the A aren't symmetrical, I struggled with trying to make it feel even. Eventually I figured if it looks a little uneven, that's okay - a lot of the signs I saw had a bit of an unbalanced quirk to them, too. (For a while, I played with having one of the letters coming loose. On the Web site, I'll probably have one of the neon tubes going out occasionally.)

I need to go ahead and get some cards made, but after I get a site design together, I'll probably come back to the logo occasionally and add some detail here and there. Have a bit of red glow highlighting what is, in my head, a raised edge around the arrow, things like that.

Anyway, all good observations. Thanks!



(Edited by Wes on 06-24-2005 22:44)

How appropriate, Wes, great job; sounds like it's all on the up and up for ya

Looks great Wes, I've never used Illustrator or seen it produce a vector .jpg before, the scaling is brilliant. As you said, it can be used for many media. I can just see it as an animated gif with the small chevrons in the red arrow lighting up progressively.

::tao:::: ::cell::

Just wanted to add - it is clear that the extedning bits are intended to be wrapping around. It's just that they don't actually look like it - you have to stop and look, and determine that they are.

I see. Any ideas how I could make it clearer, short of incorporating the perspective I wanted?

(And if anyone has any leads on how to bring all my paths into Moray or something similar for POV-Ray, I'd appreciate it, too. I tried for 3 days to find something that would work before finally giving up.)

That's a tough one. As you said, it's pretty tough to add any more shading than what you've got.

Perhaps narrowing and rounding off (slightly) as the bits wrap around? More drastic shading may in fact help as well...would have to play with it to see what works...

Being able to get the perspective in there would definitely be the best way, but short of drawing it in that way, I don't know how you'd accomplish that (3D software is not my expertise by any means).

Let me reiterate though - it *is* an excellent logo, very well done and a great representation of you and your work.

I've been known to be too picky in the past about little things like this

Hey Wes, it is a good logo and if it was created in Adobe Illustrator, your options are many as far as other media. Although I am a little miffed with Tao's comment "or seen it produce a vector .jpg before", the scaling is brilliant." , I am sure we all understand that the there is no such thing as a "vector jpg".
but a bitmap or jpg created from a rasterized AI file.

Anyhow on to options from AI:

1) Not exactly sure what you want to produce in 3D but many 3D apps allow you to import an EPS, saved from AI and you might be able to create a 3D Extrusion from it.

2) Another option is exporting a DXF file from AI which almost all 3D apps can read.
These DXF files tend to get a little messy though.
Search Google for AI DXF Plugin

3) Another option is a set of filters from Filterit http://www.cvalley.com/products/filterit4/
there is a free rtyout, I use these and they are great for mangling vector effects.
all the above options may or may not be free.


hope there is something in there that helps.
if you get stuck I may be able to try and convert a file or 2 for you,


cheers
kromaz

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kromaZ said:

Although I am a little miffed with Tao's comment "or seen it produce a vector .jpg before", the scaling is brilliant." , I am sure we all understand that the there is no such thing as a "vector jpg".

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"we"?
My brain farts are legendary, honestly, there I was viewing the logo in firefox resizing the browser up and down saying to myself "Wow it (the logo) really does scale well" Totally forgeting firefox does that to every image! By the time I realised my cranial flatulence, I had hit the Reply button.
I thought I had "got away" with it Thank you for pointing out the error in my thinking kromaZ, I hope that you are now a little unmiffed.

::tao:::: ::cell::

beautiful work, wes.

but that issue raised by DL definitely needs some attention.

that lovely big red arrow draws the eye right around the logo, and straight to the right side; and before you even read the text, so start trying to figure that bit out.

it's not 'wrong', just unnatural; but that's enough for your eye to question it.

i think that your perspective idea could fix it; but it would be a fairly large reworking. However, it would also make the "treat" text look much less boxy, and a lot more cartoony and fun, which i believe would be a real improvement.

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Perhaps narrowing and rounding off (slightly) as the bits wrap around?

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I played with that a little bit, but wasn't happy with the results. I may try again, or play the shading some more after leaving it alone a couple of days.

kromaZ - I drove myself nuts trying all the EPS/DXF/whatever-else imports/exports with a dozen different applications. Never got it to work reliably. Think I'll just have to put it away for a few months and come back again for another try.

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it *is* an excellent logo

beautiful work, wes

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Think I'll just take that and run. I'll go ahead and print a few business cards and start a site using what I've got. Worry about the details when I've got more time.

Oh, and as for the arrow -- I understand what you're saying, but that's actually my favorite part. Just wouldn't be a roadside sign without it. It'll usually be pointing at something important anyway.

hey wes,

trust me, i love the arrow too.

all i was saying is that it's drawing my attention to that open-ended T issue thing.

but yep, it's my favourite bit too.

*tut* There's just no pleasing some...

You mentioned a blinking/faulty neon - I love that idea!

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzz.....

Wes, it can be a little frustrating trying the suggestions I posted, but I just threw those ideas up there to also help people who have little or no 3D modelling experience, and this method can give you a model created from 2d into a 3d app.

Granted if you have some 3D skills it would be much better to start in a 3D program and model it from scratch .

For the helluv it I decided to take my own suggestions and see how these would translate so I spent a little time in AI first to trace your jpeg, to create the line art.

Next I separated the elements and saved them in either groups or single objects, and exported as an EPS.
Here is where it gets tricky, some 3d apps like Iluustrator 7 only for EPS imports, while others may go for Illustrator v. 3, so you might have to play with the version of eps.

Import the EPS into your 3D app, here I used Strata 3D Pro, you can get a free version.

Select the EPS in Strata, select the Extrusion tool.....> Extrude........>Menu.........> Modelling............>
Create Mesh.

That's basically it, repeat for all the other EPS , assemble in Strata, add textures, lights, action!.


Here's what some of my EPS's looked like , and a fast render in Strata.



and the quick render,


cheers,
kromaz

(Edited by kromaZ on 06-30-2005 17:34)

Wow. kickass =)

^What he said!^

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzz.....

Aw, dammit ... there goes my weekend!

Sorry Wes, I guess I better not post the animated version.

cheers
kromaz

Post the animated version! I want to see faulty blinking neon lights... in 3D!

Seriously, Wes, if you could get the feel of the original in 3D... well, that would probably have to be the best personal logo I would have ever seen.



___________________________
Suho: www.liminality.org | Cell 270 | Sig Rotator | the Fellowship of Sup

heh, I was almost going to post a cheesy exploding version I had, but in fairness to Wes he should be the one to mangle his own creations.

Seriously though, ( is there an echo in here?) this logo is one of the better ones and a lot can be done with it.

Buzzing flickering neon would be cool, especially on a business card ......and on and on.

cheers,
kromaz

(Edited by kromaZ on 07-01-2005 06:00)

Heh ... if someone can show me how to animate a business card, I'm all ears.

Unfortunately, I don't think I can dedicate the time right now to complete the 3D recreation within Strata's 30-day trial period. Have to hit the road in about 4 weeks for this next book and I have sooo much to do. I'll let it simmer in the back of my head and start it when I think I have a few days to learn Strata and obsess over the details.

(And maybe by then I'll find some money I can blow on purchasing the full version. Though $700 is a lot to pay for something I'll probably use only for this.)

Edit: Heh ... hehehe ... http://www.cuttingedgedesigns.us/3D-businesscards.htm ...



(Edited by Wes on 07-01-2005 19:46)

cool cards....how are they powered? solar cells?.

I must say that my version of Strata is due for a major update and I think what I have seen of the new version Strata 3D CX, I was surprisingly blown away with all the new features and improvements.

They have included a seamless integration now with Adobe products mainly PS for textures and A Illustrator, so my rag tag method I posted above should be a lot less painfull in the newer version.

Also there is some cool stuff at their site in the Gallery section.

http://www.strata.com/

edit~ check out these logos
http://www.strata.com/gallery_index.asp?id=12

and Strata 3D Vector
http://www.strata.com/gallery_index.asp?id=22

Check out the Strata 3D Vector samples, 3D Flashlike among others...very cool.
I have always liked what their products can produce on the Mac, while keeping the price within reason.

Good luck with the road trip Wes and the new book....
Your logo is a winner.

cheers,
kromaz

(Edited by kromaZ on 07-02-2005 00:13)

That's a pretty hefty price tag on these 3D business cards. Honestly, though, that logo in 3D on a business card would probably be one of the coolest things ever.

___________________________
Suho: www.liminality.org | Cell 270 | Sig Rotator | the Fellowship of Sup

G'day Wes; on the off chance you haven't spotted this - here it is

Excellent find, thanks!

I'm really looking forward to finding some really run-down places like these in the backroads of Arizona.

Yup, I'm a sucker for old motels/signs like that too.
I can't take too much credit though; picked up the link via Boing Boing.

um, well, wesley, it is a bit of a strange logo, and i wouldn't think, well, unless you were in the fast food, or l.a. bussiness that it would go very well, but if you like it, go,m right ahead!

oh where oh where has my little dog gone?

if you click on Wes' sig, or view any of his other material, yo will quickly see why the logo is such a perfect fit.

A personal logo doesn't have to be anything specific. Mine is a biohazard symbol, but I am not a used needle company... And besides, very few companies ever use logos that go along with thier business, hell MSN uses a butterfly. You may still be to young to relize alot of this.

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unless you were in the fast food, or l.a. bussiness that it would go very well

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As DL alluded to, the theme fits, or at least I hope it does, in that most of my ventures relate to driving around the highways, photographing and writing about roadside oddities. With any luck, those ventures will consider along that course for a while.

Hehehehe ... The man who put the Wes into Awesome ... Remidns me of a guy I used to know from Scunthorpe !!


Bug-free software only exisits in two places
In a programmer's mind and on a salesman's lips