Topic: Overtime - Over time - More Overtime!!! (Page 1 of 1) Pages that link to <a href="https://ozoneasylum.com/backlink?for=26119" title="Pages that link to Topic: Overtime - Over time - More Overtime!!! (Page 1 of 1)" rel="nofollow" >Topic: Overtime - Over time - More Overtime!!! <span class="small">(Page 1 of 1)</span>\

 
paritycheck
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: you tell me
Insane since: Mar 2004

IP logged posted posted 06-29-2005 07:12 Edit Quote

Hi Guys
I'm in a bit of a pickle. After lounging around in odd jobs for nearly a year I seem to have lnded a job which pays pretty well considering the fact that jobs are terribly scarce here. The pay is good but theres a terrible overtime culture within the company. I don't have much trouble with overtime now and then but staying past the work timings are pretty much the norm here. Even though officially the office timings are from 9-6 we hardly are able to get off work till 3 hours later to sometimes early the next morning. THere's loads of works and kilelr deadlines to meet, and even though its just my first week(s) I'm barely able to get the time to sleep. I spend my weekends if I get both of them free - sleeping.

The company is an ad agency with huge clients and they also take flash projects and ecommerce work, largely creative. If I look at it this way theres a great oppertunity to learn because there r a lot of talented people here, but keeping in mind the excessive overtime I don't think I'm gonna have much of a social life. Do u think its just me, ok so I may be a junior flash + web developer here but what ever happened to being on time and leaving on time.

WebShaman
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: Happy Hunting Grounds...
Insane since: Mar 2001

IP logged posted posted 06-29-2005 07:25 Edit Quote
quote:
Do u think its just me, ok so I may be a junior flash + web developer here but what ever happened to being on time and leaving on time.



Where jobs are scarce, people will go to rather extraordinary means to keep theirs - even if it means working excessive overtime. One question - do you get paid for your overtime?

If you do, I don't think there is really much that you can do to change things much - refusing to work overtime, when it is obviously needed by the company or "expected" will more than likely end in you becoming seperated from the job - there are always dozens (if not more) of people who want that job where jobs are scarce as you have suggested.

If you are not being paid for the overtime, then you need to start weighing having a job, vs how much it is really paying - figure out how many hours you are really working, and take a look at your hourly wage as it really is.

I personally would use the chance to get badly needed skills, then jump ship at the first opportunity if you are not getting a decent hourly wage.

paritycheck
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: you tell me
Insane since: Mar 2004

IP logged posted posted 06-29-2005 07:41 Edit Quote

The thing is that I don't get paid overtime infact noone does. Its all pretty much deadline oriented. The deadlines are real tight with zero room for tolerance. The only plus point may be the salary which is nearly double the pay other companies pay.

You have a good point when you say:

quote:
I personally would use the chance to get badly needed skills, then jump ship at the first opportunity if you are not getting a decent hourly wage.



The trouble isn't with the wage though, its pretty much having an impact on my social life.. that is to say I don't have one at the moment. Which does raise a question, in the IT field are all jobs always heavily overtime dependant? Because most of the places where I've worked would be largely dependent on overtime.

The fact is that I don't mind putting in afew hours but when overtime becomes the norm then its a little hard to get used to. I mean if I get up and leave like lets say just an hour after the office time its considered quite early.

paritycheck
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: you tell me
Insane since: Mar 2004

IP logged posted posted 06-29-2005 12:09 Edit Quote

BTW this brings up a question - Isn't there anything like too much overtime, like if this is pretty much the norm in this industry , what line of work should I opt for if lets say I wanna stick to a straight 8 hour shift like lets say 9-6 not aminute early and absolutely NO overtime?

WarMage
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: Rochester, New York, USA
Insane since: May 2000

IP logged posted posted 06-29-2005 14:51 Edit Quote

I work pretty much 50 hour weeks, but am salaried so I do not get overtime. The work enviornment makes it worthwhile for me. The people I work with are great, and we play quake at least 4 hours per week.

But, if you are salaried you have to figure out if it is worthwhile. If you can put in a good 2 or 3 years getting pissed on to come out with an awsome resume and the ability to write your own ticket by all means stick it out. If you are getting paid 2x what other companies would pay you then it sounds like you are being compensated.

Advertising is crazy deadlines and crazy hours. I would expect what you are going through to be the norm. There is a reason they made so many movies in the 80's about the people who work in advirtising and have no life. It is the culture of the business. You say it is your first week, toughen up, you need to put in at least 3 months to start to have an idea about what you are into. Stick it out and keep chugging.

Dan @ Code Town

WarMage
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: Rochester, New York, USA
Insane since: May 2000

IP logged posted posted 06-29-2005 14:53 Edit Quote

Next message. You are not going to be hard pressed to find an industry in America with no overtime. If you want that life style move to Italy, or some other European country. You can look at Union jobs, they have better compensation for overtime, but they all have overtime stipulations.

Dan @ Code Town

paritycheck
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: you tell me
Insane since: Mar 2004

IP logged posted posted 06-29-2005 15:49 Edit Quote

I guess so, it may be worthwhile to gain the experience plus some hardy cash. But still it brings to question the reason why we're goin through this vicious cycle everyone calls a career. Is it to put bread on the table and support a family - if so then its not worth being able to support a family but not be able to squirm out teh time to be with one.

Like how much shoudl one weigh his social life against his career. Do u think I should choose one over the other becasue balancing them doesn't seem quite possible.

To be honest I would settle for a job that didn't pay as much as my job does now but atleast be constricted to following a set routine. But at the moment there aren't many junior jobs of that sort.

I'm currently in the Middle east but originally from South Asia. I guess maybe I'm missing home for that matter. i used to work pretty well back home but pays were lousy and I guess I got lazy back home and tried to fish for bigger sport.

Infact I guess I've bitten off more than I can immediately chew. I got a job that pays good for a start infact pays great. The environment is ok but theres darn so much work to do. So much that sometimes I wish I could just jump out the window and leave it all.

WebShaman
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: Happy Hunting Grounds...
Insane since: Mar 2001

IP logged posted posted 06-29-2005 17:31 Edit Quote
quote:
So much that sometimes I wish I could just jump out the window and leave it all.



Well, time to get yourself busy!

(Edited by WebShaman on 06-29-2005 23:47)

DL-44
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: under the bed
Insane since: Feb 2000

IP logged posted posted 06-29-2005 17:44 Edit Quote

So it is very simple: what is more important to you in the big picture - your social life or your career?

Can you suck it up for a while to take advantage of the good salary and the learning experience? If so you'll be far better off in the long run, and quite rankly - that's life. It could be a whole lot worse than that (you could have no job, or you could be working that kind of wild overtime out under the hot sun doing heavy contstruction, or on a loading dock, or what have you.

Putting time with your wife and kids over your career is one thing. Putting your nights out on the town or hanging with your buddies over you career is altogether different.

So it comes down to where you fall there, and what your other options are (for instnace, if you leave this job...what are you looking at? #1 fry cook at mcdonalds? or are there other good options around?).

But if you're looking to get through life withouthaving to sacrifice your social life for you job, you better come up with a really good plan!

White Hawk
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: zero divided.
Insane since: May 2004

IP logged posted posted 06-29-2005 23:29 Edit Quote

Hah! I don't technically work overtime - I just work until the job's done. I don't think I've finished at the 'official' time more than two days out of any given week!

I don't get paid overtime either - just the odd extra day for working over a weekend, and infrequent bonuses when my employer feels particularly well-disposed..

You think you've got it bad.

I always thought it was important to work-to-live, not live-to-work - but I'm in an industry that requires certain commitments. There really isn't much I can do about it.

eyezaer
Lunatic (VI) Mad Scientist

From: the Psychiatric Ward
Insane since: Sep 2000

IP logged posted posted 07-01-2005 01:19 Edit Quote

[homer] Mmmmmmm... Pickles..... [/homer]

Yah... eh, depends. Stick it out for a bit... the best thing I have found is that if you are working that much, you dont spend much money so you save even more. good deal! It aint always fun tho. I just got back from a 2 week vacation and my first day back, worked 15 hours. If your goal is 8-5... you may need to look to another career.

paritycheck
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: you tell me
Insane since: Mar 2004

IP logged posted posted 07-04-2005 09:48 Edit Quote

Darn! I guess all my whining seems to have gotten the better of me. I GOT FIRED!! Man I guess that sums up my work in the ad agency. GUess I'm back on the unemployment list again.

Heck its not like its totally my fault(when is it ever) I don't have any issues with staying late - nothing wrong with working 12 - 15 hours if the need calls for it. But when you're hacking away like a jerk for 32 hours straight only to hear being told that 'you're not working as quick as we want you to and you'll need to spedn time learning the stuff OUT of the office' - Question to self if I'm in the office for the greater part of my life having to leave the premises for basic amenities like ,... I dunno sleeping perhaps? And if I'm not aallowed to spend my working time learning and I'm working like 24 -7 with pockets of sleep on pretty much alternative days, then squeezing in time to learn extra stuff could be a tad wee bit hard.

Its time like this I do wish for a bit of discipline in life. Man I've almost forgotten what the sky looks like before the twilight.

White Hawk
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: zero divided.
Insane since: May 2004

IP logged posted posted 07-04-2005 12:32 Edit Quote

Sorry to hear about the loss of job.

I know what you mean about hours. I think I have managed to go a week at a time (especially during the shortest days of the year) without actually going out into daylight - on the job before sunrise, back after dark...

It can really get me down - especially with a touch of S.A.D... but I just have to accept it, get on with the task at hand, and hope that my bonus fairly represents my hard work.

It doesn't often.

A year or so left of this and I'll be moving on. Maybe I'll end-up working short hours in a job I hate, rather than long hours in a job I love.

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzz.....

paritycheck
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: you tell me
Insane since: Mar 2004

IP logged posted posted 07-05-2005 09:11 Edit Quote

I guess its true that you can't have your cake and eat it too. But the question still remains unanswered like how much overtime is too much overtime. I might not have too many problems with doing overtime now and then - provided I enter and leave the office without having the date change.

The pay might have been pretty great though at my 'former' job though but heck with no compensation for overtime and no compensation for work on the weekends except for getting the job done because some stupid project manager had extremely inhuman (or rather super duper human) expectations of his workforce - it seemed a bit exploitiveif you ask me.

Its pretty ironic though that on the quest for achieving the four day work week we seem to be going in a complete opposite direction and working even harder than ever - sometimes to excruciating limits that pretty much puts our social and mental well being in jeapordy.

But heck I guess we have a long way to go - for now its back to surfing the appointment pages again

White Hawk
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: zero divided.
Insane since: May 2004

IP logged posted posted 07-05-2005 13:13 Edit Quote

I have had just that discussion before - and the conclusion is generally that you should work to what you think is fair. Accept that there will always be extra work and overtime in a range of industries, and there will always be unexpected delays or obstacles that lengthen the day, but guage what you feel is fair to you and take steps to seek a satisfying accomodation. If you end up working such that you feel you are being taken advantage of, then consider making demands for compromise; if pay can't be adequately adjusted, or hours/times can't be manipulated, then consider requesting days off for any extra days worked, etc.

The other end of the stick can be quite weighty too, though. With three of us doing the major portion of any work, having one colleague demand shorter hours and imposing conditions upon hotel stays, overseas, or on-site support jobs can make things pretty hard for the other two.

This very scenario is indeed the case where I work now, and the same colleague has started to fall suddenly and mysteriously ill for days at a time - but always at the start of a busy week.

Perhaps he feels that he is being put-upon to work the same hours as his colleagues, or that he is unable to maintain such shifts as are expected. Whatever the reason, I can't help thinking that he is no longer suited to his role - he is no good for anything but answering the phones and making the tea. Why does he bother sticking with his current employment when he is blatantly unhappy with it?

The fact that he seems incapable of simply finding a more suitable job is making life a lot harder for those who have to pick up the extra work in his stead. I'm all for getting someone else to replace him - someone who can work the hours we do, and who is reliable.

Don't get me wrong about it - he is a decent enough lad, but being pleasant does not make up for frequently and randomly sh**ing on your work-mates, and the root of his problem is in the fact that he obviously doesn't want to work here. The hours don't suit him, the environments don't suit him, the travel doesn't suit him, and his reliability no longer suits us.

My advice to him would be to find a better job - one where he can stick to his nine-to-five-behind-a-desk-playing-solitaire regime and be happy enough doing it to avoid letting his colleagues down.

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzz.....

paritycheck
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: you tell me
Insane since: Mar 2004

IP logged posted posted 07-07-2005 10:00 Edit Quote

My sentiments Exactly, proper compensation normally shoudl make up for any extra work being done. Its a fact that overtimes and extra work hours do exist in all industries, and its also ethically fair to state that workers whether skilled or unskilled deserve some sort of extra compensation for extra work they put into.

If you ask me I feel project management also has a bit of a role to play. True if your workers are not sincere with their job then that does tend to slow progress down dramatically. However a great deal of responsibility does delve on the part of the project manager to set a proper timeline for getting projects completed. But from what I've noticed it seems that particularly the Advertising Industry thrives on the fact that employees are often overworked at the expense of basic amenities like food, sleep and even a social life.

I guess thats passion for work perhaps, but even then everyone reaches his breaking point. Right now I'm starting to have second thoughts of falling out of my 'former' job. I guess after sticking to the deadmans routine for a couple of years I might grow to like it - but then again I might have transformed into a demonitive, Flash hungry predator with not an ounce of compassion for whatever charred remainder of a personal life I would have to cringe on for dear sanity. And thats a monster I wasn't ready to turn into.

templar654
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: below the Eternal Potty Trainer!
Insane since: Apr 2004

IP logged posted posted 07-09-2005 08:56 Edit Quote

*just passing by*

get a job bro...

*twiddles around a bit then finds his way down a dark corridor wondering where it leads*

*2 hours pass*

*finds self unconcious and that accursed naked guy jumping in the background...*

CPrompt
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: there...no..there.....
Insane since: May 2001

IP logged posted posted 07-24-2005 05:15 Edit Quote
quote:

paritycheck said:

and even though its just my first week(s)




well, i know that some of the places that I've worked they kind of do this to the new guy. See if he'll stick. Companies that have a large demand from their customers, have a large demand from their employees.


And DL-44 said it well with :

quote:

DL-44 said:

and quite rankly - that's life.



I really never mind working overtime. I *kind* of work two jobs and sometimes don't get but about 4hrs sleep a night for a couple of weeks. Gets old, but it has to be done.

A company that sees an employee work as hard as it takes to get the job done, will go far with the company. If starting out the job pays very well or even pretty well, then as you move up, more money. A company that sees a new employee, complain about how many hours they work, are not going to go far.

Later,

C:\

White Hawk
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: zero divided.
Insane since: May 2004

IP logged posted posted 07-26-2005 23:34 Edit Quote

That liability I told you about has suddenly become a non-issue. He has found himself an allegedly well-paid job working sales.

I say good luck to him. Our employer has waved goodbye and given him his last month off.

Oh well. I suppose I shall just have to suffer the laborious trips abroad to hot countries and five-star food with the clients in his stead - as well as the long hours and last-minute pressures that come with this job. What a shame. How shall I ever cope?

Perhaps he'll be well suited to a job behind a... um... phone. Perhaps he'll be happy with the massive commission he claims he'll swipe, and he'll be content in his new career... behind a phone... all day... for years...
I don't know - maybe he'll become some sort of Grand High Sales Person and buy a mansion in the South of France where he'll build a global marketing empire and take over Microsoft, or something...

Me? I'd rather get on with a good job and plan on the dividends paid by experience and hard graft in a field of work that always changes, always evolves, and challenges me to learn constantly. Perhaps I am fortunate in loving the job I do - it makes my current salary tolerable... for the mean time.

If you're going into a new job and you don't think you're going to be hanging around, then put a face on it. Even if you know you're going to ditch that position the moment you find another - work your arse off! Leave, when you eventually do, with a little pride,and make them miss you, rather than being happily rid off you when you go.

If a job is worth doing at all, it is worth doing properly - and you never know what you might learn while you're looking for another one.

Dammit - I'm ranting again, aren't I? Sorry.
Time for my sedative, already?


ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzz.....



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