Topic awaiting preservation: Unbelievable (Page 1 of 1)

How pitiful is this... http://www.alternet.org/walmart/26503/

I guess this must mean a lot of us here are on Santa's list too. (check out some of the posts.)

Man, some folks will do anything to get at Wal-mart.

The gestapo-like activities are nothing new in the US...remember the T-sgirt?

Never let your sense of morals get in the way of doing what's right.
Isaac Asimov
US science fiction novelist & scholar (1920 - 1992)

Actually, that is the Secret Service doing its job, protecting the President. They take all incidents reported to them seriously - they can't afford not to.

Now, had they pressed charges, that would have been something different. Obviously, theyinvestigated the incident, and dismissed it as harmless.

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WebShaman said:

They take all incidents reported to them seriously - they can't afford not to.

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That in itself is understandable.

But I am at a total loss as to how there is any "incident" whatsoever to report, and how anyone developing this film could have thought there was anything to report, and how the police could have thought that this was something that needed to be passed on th the secret service, and how the secret service could serisouly ask if she thought it was "suspicious".

totally ridiculous...

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WebShaman said:

they can't afford not to

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Yes, by the way: I wonder how much this kind of incidents cost to investigate... Who cannot afford what?
It is true that they are doing their job - I am not blaming the agents - but honestly, they either didn't have anything to do at that time, or the Secret Service employs many, many agents... I might be completely wrong, but they are going a little too far, IMHO. Imagine if they had spent the money they spent on this very investigation, for example, in the fight against illiteracy? Again, as usual, this appears like very irrelevantly spent money.

The only person I blame is the Wal-Mart employee. As far as I'm concerned, the student and the SS did nothing wrong.
But I don't think we have to be worried about the US becoming some sort of fascist dictatorship. One incident like this and we think the whole country is changing. This is just one person making a stupid decision.

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One incident like this

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If it were only one... you'd have a point.

The "incident" (call it whatever you will *shrug*) was reported to the Secret Service - of course they took it seriously! They are in the business of protecting the President (among other things).

You people need to seperate the Secret Service doing it's job, from how stupid the "incident" was - and those who reported it as potientially serious (as DL has stated).

That the Secret Service recognized that it was harmless and let it drop, is apparent. That alone shows how stupid the whole "incident" was, and those who totally overreacted.

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They are in the business of protecting the President

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Yes "I" understand that and accept they take thier job seriously...as they well should. When however and if, this woman is to be believed when she says

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At the end of the meeting, they told her the incident "would be interpreted by the U.S. attorney, who would decide whether the student could be indicted," she says.

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'Interpreted' and 'decide' whether or not to 'indict' goes well beyond two members of the SS being *stupid.* Such a statement can be interpreted as nothing but and only, intimidation. Nothing else. Imo of course =)

I've heard stories similar to this over several presidencies. I don't think this is anything much more than the SS doing its job.

NoJive, if someone here stated some things about the president in a certain way, I would not be surprised if they would get on "Santa's List". Most of us do a pretty good job of refraining from flaming or otherwise direct language in that regard.

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At the end of the meeting, they told her the incident "would be interpreted by the U.S. attorney, who would decide whether the student could be indicted," she says.

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Standard phrase, standard proceedings, I am afraid, NJ. Those involved probably didn't receive a "Oops, sorry" or any acknowledgement of error (because there was none, on the part of the SS - they did their job).

Believe me, if the SS wanted to "intimidate" anyone, they have much more efficient means of doing so. Such standard phrases are meant to be used as feelers - "You are potientially in some serious trouble, so don't bullsh*t us" type of stuff.

If you are getting wrapped about that, then I don't think you would particularly enjoy a hearing by the police. I won't even get into the more "grey" areas of a military "beat down".

I understand what you're saying, WS, and Bugs - I agree this is certainly larger in scope than just the current president.

But....what the hell was there to investigate??

A picture of Bush with a 'thumbs down' next to him?

This is some how threatening behavior??

That's the part I don't understand. How this could be interpreted by *anyone* as threatening in any possible way.

IMO, the investigation could have determined the complete lack of substance without ever involving the student, and most likely without ever involving the school.

Is every person with an anti-bush bumper sticker going to be investigated in this manner? That's about the level this falls under....

First of all, DL - we don't have enough facts. What was really reported to the SS? What type of Security Alert levels was/is the SS currently working under?

Often, these are the determining factors, not how "silly" such an "incident" seems to common sense.

We don't know if the SS was told "Here are some pictures of someone with the thumbs down before a pic of the President! Nab him!". Somehow, I sincerely doubt that it was reported so.

More like "We have a [insert appropriate threat word here describing the "incident" in grave enough terms]" - the sort of langugage that is normally used to promote seriousness and professinalism in reaction to a report. Just like the Police use their code system, instead of "Man parading across the street with his pants down". The first one prompts a professional demeanor and reaction, the second a chuckle and a shaking of heads. Both describe the same thing.

C'mon people. The SS is a very serious and professional department. They have more serious things to do than to be "harassing" students, believe me. I tend to suspect the way that this was reported as the culprit. Once such an investigation is begun, it must be completed completely and profesionally.

And it was. It is due to this level of professionalism and thoroughness, that the SS has been able to protect President after President down through the years, alongside of the other things that the SS has on its plate.

I think that is a very likely explanation, WS. I think the fact that it was reported obligated the investigation.

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I think the fact that it was reported obligated the investigation.

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Which brings us back to the issue... WHY was it reported in the first place? The ignorance bestowed upon this walmart employee by the public must be overwhelming. I wonder how many people have intentionally walked into walmart and have asked her why she reported it. Certainly that would bring forth some regret, no?

Yes, it probably would. I would very much like to see the employee challenged on that point.

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I agree. Pure hysteria, if you ask me, and a total overreaction.

This sort of action is typical of a self-important nobody who is desperate for their 15 minutes.

Never let your sense of morals get in the way of doing what's right.
Isaac Asimov
US science fiction novelist & scholar (1920 - 1992)

The biggest problem I have with this situation, is that these "Photo-Techs", at these "Photo" stations, are simply using their own ideas & beliefs, to determine the story behind a picture. They have even been sued for invasion of privacy. Sometimes, "A picture is NOT WORTH a thousand words", and "Seeing is NOT ALWAYS believing", nor does, "The end justify the means".

I think it's sad to consider that " Photo-techs ", should be used as a "front-line" defense on crime.

Just my $0.02 cents.

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" The world today is such a wicked thing "

I find the whole thing ridiculous. Just because the kid doesn't support the president and voices it in a school project with a gesture in a photograph doesn't mean he is going to kill him. Yes you have to take everything serious that is their job but come on. Use common sense here.

"People say that its the quiet ones you have to watch. But let me ask you something. If there are two guys at a bar, one reading a book and one banging a machete on the bar screaming at you for another beer, who the f$ck are you going to pay attention to? While your watching out for the quiet ones a loud one is going to come up and blow your brains out." one more quote from my fav. comedian, George Carlin.

That's exactly what we are doing here folks, we are paying to much attention to these little book readers and blowing the situation so out of perportion (if that's how you spell that) that the picture is so out of focus, a guy with a machete is going to come up and lop of Bush's ape like head. (I am still looking for someone with a machete who is willing to do the job while the time is right. )

"God may have mad the world, but it's held together by duct tape"-quote found on internet

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I find the whole thing ridiculous. Just because the kid doesn't support the president and voices it in a school project with a gesture in a photograph doesn't mean he is going to kill him. Yes you have to take everything serious that is their job but come on. Use common sense here.

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Do you actually read all the posts before posting

Do you even know how the SS works?

All I can say is, I'm glad the SS does not have your "sense" of "common sense".

If it was your life riding on the line, wouldn't you want a department of highly trained professionals that do their job with the utmost care and attention to detail?

They did their job, and did it well.

Now, those that reported this "incident", that is something else. And I also don't know through which structures that it got reported, and in what words. Do you?

Back to your comparison - to which are you going to react (put yoursefl in the shoes of the SS for a minute)? A report of someone sitting quietly at a bar doing nothing, or a report of someone waving a machete in front of a picture of Mr. Bush with the head cut off, shouting in a public arena that he is going to cut off Mr. Bush's head?

Keep in mind, that both are the descriptions of the same man, and the same event, just described differently (you find out afterwards).

The way that the SS reacted afterwards is what is telling - naemly, they let all things drop, and went elsewhere to continue their job. Obviously, "common sense" kicked in after a thorough and complete investigation.

Oh the irony hit me when you abreviated 'Secret Service.'

Heh, that can't be a coincidence.

^ Hehe...yeah, that hasn't escaped me, or many others, I am sure.

Again, WS, I *do* understand what you're saying. And I do agree with the concencus that the person most to blame here is the Walmart employee.

But if what we now of this photo is the extent of what there was to report, no matter *how* it was reported, there was no need for the investigation to go as far as it did. There was no need for the student to be involved at all.

This is truly no different from a bumper sticker with a circle and a line through the word "Bush".
We see these all over.

If I were to call and report, even in a sensationalistic manner, that someone had such a bumper sticker, would you find it reasonable that the SS come and question the indivdual with the bumper sticker?

It's ridiculous through and through.

As I said before - yes, they need to take any report seriously. But they could have determined the complete lack of substance in this case without involving the student.

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If I were to call and report, even in a sensationalistic manner, that someone had such a bumper sticker, would you find it reasonable that the SS come and question the indivdual with the bumper sticker?

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DL, I doubt that if you called in, and reported bumper stickers on a car to the SS, that they would take such seriously as a threat to the President.

I'm not even sure if the WM employee in this case would have been taken seriously. Did she call the SS directly, or the local police?

I think she called the police, and then the police then informed the SS - and the way the police informs the SS is much different than a phone call "Yeah, some freaked out woman from WM said that there is some kid outside the store, with a pic of the President with its head cut off, yelling death threats!" - I would think that they informed the SS in a more serious manner - probably with some sort of code, or phrase denoting a serious threat.

I agree, that the whole thing is ludicrous. But I think pointing the finger at the SS is pointing it in the wrong direction. I remember my military days, and when we got "alerts", we took them seriously, even when it turned out afterwards to be just a drill, or nothing serious.

We certainly were not told "this is a drill" - or "this is a phony alert" - afterwards, an official explanation was given.

But who knows? Maybe you are correct - maybe the SS has become so inefficient and incompetant, that it has stooped to the level of harrassing private citizens now, for expressing free speach.

(Edited by WebShaman on 10-13-2005 17:35)

It was, I believe a few years ago up here that some guy was investigated for kiddie porn because some officious idiot in a photo-shop saw a picture of the guy's one year old boy in a tub with his wee-wee showing.

Anyone here doesn't have such a picture somewhere in their family album?

It is just nuts I tell ya!

Never let your sense of morals get in the way of doing what's right.
Isaac Asimov
US science fiction novelist & scholar (1920 - 1992)

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Diogenes said:

It is just nuts I tell ya!

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Never a truer word was spoken

Interestingly, there was a case where the opposite was true. I have always had a morbid curiosity, and I came across a remarkable series of photos on rotten(dot)com a while back. The photos had been turned into the cops by a developer and they depicted a woman and her boyfriend chopping up and "messing" with the body parts of the woman's husband that they had just murdered. They were posing and everything so there was absolutely no doubt who they were. It was really quite extraordinary, and I think that would be a case where the developer probably did society a favor.

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When you hear of a story like this, whose end result was stopping a potential trajedy, it feeds the human mind. Sometimes people are just trying to be helpful.

People are also very sensitive when the "men in Black" come a knocking. And if your trying to get to the bottom of something you have to investigate all sides. Even if it hurts a few feelings.

Sometimes it's not so much what is brought to the attention of S.S., that warrants an investigation. It's the thinking behind it. And for a full investigative-cover-your-ass response, the S.S. did what most of us expect of them. And that's to B thourough.

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" The noblest pleasure is the joy of understanding, and being understood. "