Topic awaiting preservation: File interfaces- What's next?

File interfaces- What's next?

I would like us to have better interfaces already! I find windowing/menu interfaces inefficient, and I don't really like Mac's ever-changing magic bar. The interface question has perplexed me for a long time and one of the things I've learned over here is that the best ideas usually stem from everyone throwing their ideas into the mix.

So I propose the following-

I propose The Asylum pulls their guns and sketches such incoherent madness. Everyone stop what you're doing right now and draw up a new way of doing business on your machine. Even if you think you want to make it better later- post your embarassing first steps right now. You can replace them later with better stuff if you wish, but the key for this to work is for everyone to get their ideas on here as fast as possible.

Just draw a screenshot explaining concepts and methods of how you would-
a) Run the Progams, Games, Office Apps, and other Utilities you'd use (Why not make these up, too?).
b) Find, display, and manipulate data. This can be text, images, 3d models, audio/video, the Web, or other data files.
c) Search for data. This especially when you have only a vauge idea of what your want. "Hey, Bob- you remember where that picture of us wit' de aliens is at?"
d) Live in style! Make the interface as fantastic and glossy or as dark and grungy as you like it! Hey, sometimes the best thing about a new interface is how it looks! Need a clock in the corner or Superman to laze away deleted letters? Why not?

The rules are simple-
1) Crappy is good- just as long as it's slightly understandable. Try arrows and textboxes explaining what's 'supposed to happen'. Even half-baked or half-figured out ideas are good, because of Rule #2-

2) Ripping is legal, good even- If someone has one cool concept that you think will work, use it! Go ahead and use someone's entire thought if you'd only change one little thing about it that you think would work better. However, don't be afraid to follow Rule #3-

3) Go Way Out there- if you think up-side down text would work, look cool, or be fun- Do it! What about a HAL button in lime green? Or some H.R Geiger TechnoBioErotic Grossness with purple slime dripping on the pages that were opened in the past 5 days? If you think it might work or might look prettier *as* it works, the sky's the limit! This includes Rule #4-

4) Available technology is not an object- if present technology can't do it, pretend! Why not? Maybe we'll get there someday soon.

The point is to fundamentally shake the way we look at our hierarchical filesystems and interface design. We all want clarity- but with shine and style; we all want easier ways to reach virtual things, yet have everything readily available, and we all want the computer to know what we're looking for automagically. Are these concepts impossible? If they are, can we get closer to achieveing them?

I want it to be fully dynamic - shapes, colors, fonts, animations, you name it, I, the user, want to have complete control over it, to make it look like I want it to.

I want simple menus, that I can call up with a very simple process - like I click left, it "summons" a ball - I can expand the ball into a menu with another left click, for example. By moving my mouse in a direction, more menu options open up on that side of the "ball" - and so on.

I can leave the "ball", by clickin right, and go to another part of the "area" (instead of Desktop, or whatever, I just call it an "area") and with a left click, I create another ball - bingo! The same thing. The other "ball", in the meantime, has "shrunk" a bit, resizing a bit into the background distance.

In other words, irregardless of where I am in the Area, irregardless of which "menu path" I have taken, I can leave it at any time easily, and create/go into another one smoothly, without having to backtrack, clutter things up.

The Area is a 3D environment, that I can "swing about", and access my "balls" as I have them in different places easily. I can zoom in, zoom out. Maybe replace the mouse with a Glove - and I can use motions and finger movements to control things. Full speech recognization with good AI, as well, that learns from me, the more that I use the computer.

I like it! what's in these menus, though? Runable programs? Data? Why would you want to keep them open?

I love the idea of the ball going back into the background- fading away as newer operations supercede it. Most of this thought came after I read an article on 'LifeStreams' (http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/5.02/fflifestreams_pr.html) and decided that if anyone could do better- the Asylum could. Anyway- the LifeStreams 'system' verges on this same 'back into the past' idea that I'm incorporating into my first mad sketch.

my first thought also has an interface-type object that looks kinda like a trackball with some buttons on it- which could be manipulated with the mouse or, say, eventually it will actually exist. It's kinda like a combination trackball/iPod touchcircle/Minority Report scrollback-forth thing.. The theory is that it's for scrolling up and down text, back and forth in audio/video, and panning and zooming images.. it makes sense in my head- lemme see if I can get it down on paper..

my second sketch will be a little simpler division of text/images/audio/video files management stuff... I'm trying to get away from hierarchical file structures, but I fear I'm designing a 'search by filetype; sort by date' substitution...

I'm just trying to sort out the madness onto paper here- damn, you're quick!

I think I hate menus, but I'm not sure what my alternative is yet- maybe it'll help to sit and think about *why* we use menus instead of typing commands..

Edit- I liked this, too- http://www.acm.org/sigchi/bulletin/1996.1/vid.html

(Edited by Petskull on 10-12-2005 00:28)

brain implants

Total mind manip.
Picutre an image in my head, the computer finds it, or a group of similar to choose from. (even if I don`t know the file name)
Same with definitions, text files, web pages and searches. Think it, search it, display it.
No menus. Brain to processor wireless link.
The "interface problem" goes away.

I think that the "menu(s)" in the "balls" (spheres, if you like) should first be "standard" (in a standard configuration, maybe?) and then are easily configurable - and are "menomic" in nature - meaning that the system "remembers" what menu options were used last, and keeps them, and the "ball" that it was last used on - by changing the color of the "balls", one can then determine what menu was last on it - or maybe have a pallette of colors for different menu functions? (also configurable).

barring the availability of reiso and db's most excellent sugeestions I find the hierarchical organizational structures used by man since the dawn of time to be most excellent, say filing cabinet or windows explorer.

but you go right ahead, play with your balls all you like

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WebShaman said:

I can "swing about", and access my "balls" as I have them in different places

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Oh difinitely. Any good interface *must* allow room to swing about and access your balls. Though I always keep mine right in the same place...

More seriously though, I don't see anything that breaks the current norm in that setup, other than the purely visual aspect. The interaction and file system still seems the same. And honestly, as JK said, I don't think we'll see much in the way significant improvement or cahnge from the basci structural set up we have now.

If there is anythign I'd like to see, it would be a more customizable interface, with more relational ability - being able to associate files/programs with categories and the like, and being able to more easily pull up files based on criteria other than what directory they are in.

That Visual Thesaurus thing. I want a file system like that.

I envision something rather like a real desk. File cabinets for filing objects with instant previews so while I'm searching through my pictures for instance I slide a likely picture out and look at it. Nope not it. Hunt for the next. Beyond that there will have to be a metatag-like structure to search by that include any number of catagories content, user-defined, object type. Blah Blah. No file names just object ID's.. it's the content I'm after not the name. I like Web's menu idea. to grow on that I would have them be object tools so when I want to create an object I will bring a blank object into my view and pull tools from my menus. graphics, text whatever. no specific apps. just tools used to work on objects. I really enjoyed the VR interface in Johnny Pnemonic (for those who have seen it) As far as 'running' applications it would be less activating something than moving from my 'desk' to the 'game'. It would just be 'over there' a different view for the DB inclined. I would just envelope or open the game around myself and be inside a different shell. The more I think about this the more and more I see a VR interface. Incorporating hand motions and voice commands to manipulate the environment. I absolutely see this as a heads up environment. little or zero keyboard or mouse. Neural interface... interesting but maybe not practical although VPN implants would be slick so you could inteface network wide for information purposes (how do I get here... what does this mean... translate this language for me).

Anyway... those are my brainstorms on the subject for now. I'll probably be back.

GD

(Edited by GrythusDraconis on 10-12-2005 20:58)

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No file names just object ID's.. it's the content I'm after not the name.

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Bingo! Exactly!

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I would have them be object tools so when I want to create an object I will bring a blank object into my view and pull tools from my menus. graphics, text whatever. no specific apps. just tools used to work on objects.

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This is a great idea, and is moving in what feels like to me to be an exciting direction! User involvment - creat the tool you need, to present the content - and give it a natural, intuitive "feel" of use.

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...that I can "swing about", and access my "balls" as I have them in different places easily.

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Er... well, I loved the "ball" idea up until that line, when it caused me to fall off my chair down on the ground in severe and laugh attacks.
Anyway, the doctors here gave me something for it and then the idea seemed very good again.

I'm thinking alternative input devices to replace the mouse. Currently, the mouse has a couple of limitations.
You have lift it back to move the cursor very far. There's no "depth" or movement in the Z direction, I can think of a couple of places where this would be useful, such as 3D design etc.
Also, turning the "mouse" around any axis could be used for rotations...
Take a look at the movie Final Fantasy, the main character (Aki) uses a hologram based interface to navigate a surgical instrument to its target.
Something like that would be very handy.

/TwoD

I remember seeing this show on TV a while ago, about new technologys Samsung, or it might have been Philips anyway that had this file system for storing music that was like a galaxy.

each song was a planet being grouped around a star (the album) with the stars grouped togeather into galaxys (the music genre)

you could jump from song to song, all your music was connected in a big web. it looked really cool!

*runs off to search for more infomation*

^ An interesting idea! Connections to other bits of info, outside of a main, overlying tab. So that one could slide sideways to other related data, instead of just "up" or "down". Introducing a "Z" axis to file management, so to speak - and connecting the information that way, as well, instead of like it is in our 2D models currently.

on a similar train of thought anyone seen Cowboy Bebop?
they have a file navigation or internet navigation that Ed uses to
its kinda hard to explain anyone who has seen the show will know what i'm talking about its kinda like an ocean with all the different files floating about and you could swim around.

Nice topic

Just to contribute something, while I don't have time to write anything long.. What does people think of the coming WinFS? I've read a little bit about it, and it looks really good imo, and seems to cover a couple of the ideas mentioned previously here.

_________________________
"There are 10 kinds of people; those who know binary, those who don't and those who start counting at zero"
- the Golden Ratio - Vim Tutorial -

Yeha i've seen cowboy Bebop, that whole idea reminds me of the OS and file search in Jurrasic Park, it was all 3D, to be honest by the time you found what you were looking for it was all a little too late, things need to be simple.

[edit]Holy smokes! A little bit of surfing and look what I found[/edit]



(Edited by Blaise on 10-14-2005 14:30)

C'mon folks!! This can't be all of the imagination in the Asylum!!

How about the new interface is an AI that does the searching and remembering for you. You know HAL or SAL. Theonly human input is when something is being created which would then happen in a VR environment. If you want something you ask for it. Doesn't matter where it's stored or what it's called. Your AI front end will know where it put it. It will even be able to learn your particular nuances. (i.e. What was that thingamajig I found that one time means that web page I saw last week that I said I wanted to show someone.) Based on your general input.... mindless meanderings that are promptly forgotten by us... the AI would store information that after time it learns you are likely to want again. How about a holographic representation like V.I.K.I. from I, Robot or the doctor from StarTrek Voyager fully interactive, associative, and capable of learning maybe mobile like the Doc was. Might be wierd to some but wouldn't it be nice to just have your house fit into your routine without having to argue with it. Crap.. it could let the dog out and feed it, clean the cat box, vacuum and whatever other capabilities we want to give it.

GD

Well, Damn... <shakes head> I guess that is all of the imagination in the Asylum.

<Wanders aimlessly through the quiet halls wondering what has become of this place>

V.I.K.I was crazy, she scares me.

I would love to have an A.I that did the remembering/looking for me, just ask a question and the A.I finds the answer, this could lead to even more brain laziness in us humans leading to our eventual downfall.

Voice intergration will come before an A.I though, I wish voice recognition worked better than it does, I would love to shout orders at my computer. MUWAHAHA
I love being bossy!!

:P

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Maruman said:

V.I.K.I was crazy, she scares me.I would love to have an A.I that did the remembering/looking for me, just ask a question and the A.I finds the answer, this could lead to even more brain laziness in us humans leading to our eventual downfall.Voice intergration will come before an A.I though, I wish voice recognition worked better than it does, I would love to shout orders at my computer. MUWAHAHAI love being bossy!!:P

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I guess I don't see that as brain laziness. Just time efficiency. I look at the volume of information that I hunt down every day and how long it takes me to get to it all. Even with all of the news grabbers and other services out there it'd be nice to have "Someone" there who could collect and collate my requested information sources for me so the only time I needed to spend was reading and absorbing them. I'm not going to have my AI read for me or my children but I think machines should do the menial stuff digital legwork kinds of things, be they intelligent machines or not. I don't see a mental dumbing down in not being the one to hunt for an answer, the mental dumbing down is not asking, or not wanting to ask, the question in the first place. hell... If I had the money I'd have Jeeves in the monkey suit (That'd be a Butler for all you brain lazy people out there) do it for me but, alas, I do not. So I dream of AI instead. LOL

GD

http://www.3dna.net/downloads/index.htm

----| Asylum Quotes

It would be humanoid in appearance and voice, like VIKI in I, Robot.
Two main interfaces:

• Voice recognition. Call up programs, searches, playlists, websites and whatnot using your voice. Set your own bookmarks and functions to be called up at any time. Passwords, word processing, everything all done by voice.
• Hand motions. Ever seen Minority Report? Where Tom Cruise can just make certain hand gestures in front of a giant screen and It Shall Be Done? No need to even touch it. Imagine it! Drawing, managing windows, writing, zooming...it's all there.

And also...you should be able to customise EVERYTHING.

That's interesting, GN. Have you had the opportunity to try that interface yet? I might just have to set up a test bed for that and see how it works.

Danaan - I had completely forgotten about Minority Report. Yeah, yeah... get the Virtual out of the equation and have the hand movements just work in reality. I like that better.

So what have we got now?

An interactive System (AI) with voice and motion recognition capabilities designed to adapt to your personal needs and wants with the capability to learn your particular nuances and routines. The motion recognition would involve a fully customizable, 3d tiered, transparent (holographic?) interface for direct manipulation of the computer environment with tools that are customizable in style, function, and content. The System (AI) would have a visual and audible presence to interact with the user that can be customized prior to and during System (AI) initiation but either locked down or controlled by the System (AI) after that point. The System (AI) would be satellite linked or hardwired to the net for continuous access and immediate availability of information with remote connection to personal devices, vehicles, and/or wetworked implants. Discreet applications requiring DHI (Direct Human Interface) will be moved to the VR realm or perhaps into a "holodeck" style activity room.

That seems to be what we're looking at so far. Did I miss anything or does someone want to add to this description further?

GD

^ Brilliant!

So...when will it be ready?

LOL Well... If I had any skill at creating any part of that... as soon as I could get it done. But alas... I am a dreamer. I drive imagination and ideas. The unfortunate result of which is other people make the money and I sit here in my cardboard box watching the rain come in.

GD

Is this what you had in mind?