Topic awaiting preservation: New Nomination to US Supreme Court (Page 4 of 5)

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Zynx said:

then add us FATHERS into that original decision.

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The father is right there in the original decision: we decide whether or not to participate in the sexual activity that caused the pregnancy. When you do that, you essentially make the choice to accept the consequences, including the decision of the woman who gets pregnant.

If you don't want to have to support a child you have the choice to not get someone pregnant. You don't have the choice to force someone to have an abortion.

Exactly.

Dan @ Code Town

Precisely!

Never let your sense of morals get in the way of doing what's right.
Isaac Asimov
US science fiction novelist & scholar (1920 - 1992)

Abortion is a medical procedure. So too is a blood transfusion. If Jehova's Witnesses had 'their' way that medical procedure would be illegal for not only women but all of us.

You might be tempted to say; ''.. Oh that's just ludicrous the Supreme Court would never let that happen.'

Well I put it to you there are but two impediments to imposition of their will on the rest of us. Their numbers and an effective 'lobby.'

Good analogy.

Never let your sense of morals get in the way of doing what's right.
Isaac Asimov
US science fiction novelist & scholar (1920 - 1992)

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WebShaman said:The Mother, since it is her body.

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"For The Sake Of Arguement";

There is more than just a biological event here, no? This LIFE includes other powers. Does the mother speak for the biological life a spirit, a soul, a mind?

Not to mention that I know of many people within my close circle, that are not capable of making simple decent decision, let alone intellectual decisions, or intellectual biological decisons, let alone spiritual decisions.

Ideas?

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" The noblest pleasure is the joy of understanding, and being understood. "

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DL-44 said:The father is right there in the original decision: we decide whether
or not to participate in the sexual activity that caused the pregnancy. When you do that, you essentially make the choice to accept the consequences, including the decision of the woman who gets pregnant. If you don't want to support a child you have the choice to not get someone pregnant. You don't have the choice to force someone to have an abortion.

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WarMage said:Exactly.

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Diogenes said:Precisely!

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This is clearly a female copout. It disgusts me to think that a man making his decision beforehand limits him to being merely a donor, and a monetary entity. Perhaps this is just a way of dealing with all of the problems that exists on this issue. Throw money at it.

DL, your response sounds like a womans response? Have I pegged U wrong? WM & Dio, I think you are too willing to simplify the father's voice in these decisions. Why is it that once a pregnancy is fact, that the man loses his voice? While a woman harbors the birth it does take 2 biological additives to create this life. Simply because the woman harbors the creation of that life, should not cancel out a man's involvement.

Nor his deciion making abilities/powers. Try not to trivialize the insertion of money towards the development of a child, only trivialize a parents want for results.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
" The noblest pleasure is the joy of understanding, and being understood. "

(Edited by Zynx on 11-25-2005 04:14)

Try to pay attention Zynx.

It is her body, her decision, Full stop!

Never let your sense of morals get in the way of doing what's right.
Isaac Asimov
US science fiction novelist & scholar (1920 - 1992)

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Zynx said:

This is clearly a female copout.

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You are a very confused individual.

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Zynx said:

DL, your response sounds like a womans response?

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Your response sounds like a typical self-centered sexist pig. You don't have to be a woman to be able to accept the repsonsibilities you have, and to accept the consequences of your actions.

You want to be in the 'original' decision. I point out to you that are very much there in the original decision. If you don't want to deal with the possbile outcome, then you have absolute control over that original decision which will avoid it all.

What "throwing money" at anything has to do with the issue is quite beyond me. You obviously have your priorities pretty fucked up.

Your biggest concern seems to be ending up paying for your child. As a father I find your statements appalling and ridiculously childish, selfish, and all around deplorable.

The bottom line is very simple: you do not have the right to force a woman to have the child that is growing within her, and you do not have the right to force a woman to abort the child growing within her. If your desire is to avoid the responsibility of having a child, both monetary and otherwise, then you NEED to control yourself, and/or take the proper precautions.

Consideration of the father is something that any responsible woman, involved in a responsible relationship, needs to have.
But it is still her choice.
Period.



(Edited by DL-44 on 11-25-2005 05:08)

What he said!

Never let your sense of morals get in the way of doing what's right.
Isaac Asimov
US science fiction novelist & scholar (1920 - 1992)

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The bottom line is very simple: you do not have the right to force a woman to have the child that is growing within her, and you do not have the right to force a woman to abort the child growing within her. If your desire is to avoid the responsibility of having a child, both monetary and otherwise, then you NEED to control yourself, and/or take the proper precautions.

Consideration of the father is something that any responsible woman, involved in a responsible relationship, needs to have.
But it is still her choice.
Period.

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As a father, I can only agree. And keep in mind that I am divorced from my ex-wife (the mother of my daughter) and have been warring with her in concern of my daughter for over 6 years now. I have had girlfriends who got pregnant and decided to abort the child.

As I have said countless times before, irregardless of my feelings, the bottom line still remains (and well said, DL. That is indeed the bottom line).

WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles

FTSOA

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Diogenes said:Try to pay attention Zynx. It is her body, her decision, Full stop!

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LIFE, DIO is more than a woman giving birth. That life has a soul, or a spirit, or possible that life has BECAME by the hand of another/higher power.

If you denouce these ideals, then simply the biological growth within a females body is just that. Biological and yes, the woman has every right to decide on it's outcome.

Yet I do not believe it to be that simple.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
" The noblest pleasure is the joy of understanding, and being understood. "

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DL-44 said:Your response sounds like a typical self-centered sexist pig.

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I guess I was wrong, this is surely not a typical FEMALE response.

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DL-44 said:You don't have to be a woman to be able to accept the responsibilities you have,
and to accept the consequences of your actions.

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Agreed, but those notions are legally/already set in motion against the FATHER.

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DL-44 said:What "throwing money" at anything has to do with the issue is quite
beyond me. You obviously have your priorities pretty fucked up.

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I don't claim MONEY to be a priority, but don't be ignorant, and deny it's involvement. And if money has nothing to do with it, then stop asking the fathers to support the children.

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DL-44 said:Your biggest concern seems to be ending up paying for your child.

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Again not my biggest point, but it is a point that you can not deny. Money for a child has nothing to do with the issue = Idiot!

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DL-44 said:The bottom line is very simple: you do not have the right to force a
woman to have the child that is growing within her,

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FTSOA, If I MUST pay, should I not have a voice? If not a voice to abort the life, then maybe a voice in denying monetary support?

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DL-44 said:If your desire is to avoid the responsibility of having a child, both
monetary and otherwise, then you NEED to control yourself, and/or take the proper precautions.

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Again you sound like a Mother hell bent on pointing out that all of the mans decision ability went the way of the mans orgasm! Once the EGG has been penetrated, does not deny a mans voice in the upbringing of this GROWTH.

You are completely aware that "MAN WILL PAY". But you are not allowing any rights unless HE PAYS. On either point how is that fair?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
" The noblest pleasure is the joy of understanding, and being understood. "

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Zynx said:

Again not my biggest point, but it is a point that you can not deny. Money for a child has nothing to do with the issue = Idiot!

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If you consider DL an 'Idiot" on anything, let alone this topic allow me to call you 'One big dumb fuck.' As far as 'fuckupedness' goes you are right up there with Jade.

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Zynx said:

Once the EGG has been penetrated, does not deny a mans voice in the upbringing of this GROWTH.

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Oh yes it does Mr. Fuck Up!

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Zynx said:

You are completely aware that "MAN WILL PAY". But you are not allowing any rights unless HE PAYS. On either point how is that fair?

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Fair??? What the fuck are you talking about? Life IS NOT FAIR PERIOD

Fair? Try this on for size. Woman gets pregnant has child. 'Man' does not know woman has child. 12 years later via supeona (sp?) man learns he is a father and law says father must pay. Father learns Mother is homosexual always was and that the sexual encounter was deliberate. Homosexual mother was culling the gene pool. Man still must pay. FAIR??? Well not for a fucking minute is it fair.... but that's the way it goes. BUT BUT BUT BUT.... Even if man did know woman was pregnant no "man"shall have 'legal' rights over the body of 'woman.' If the homosexual mother decided to abort that is her decision. In this particular case she did not and by my calculations my daughter is now 20 years old and I have never met her. Fuck off with 'fair' fuckhead... you know fuck all.

The next time you feel the urge to call someone an idiot put my name at the top of the list. Got it fuck head?

Thought I was finished... but I'm not... let me put it this way... if you think you have any rights... or any right to say what a woman does or does not do with her body you could just as easily say... 'I'm gonna buy myself a nigger.'

And while you're at it... move to Idaho... I heard Mark Ferman has a room to rent.

(Edited by NoJive on 11-25-2005 10:11)

Hehe...

We haven't had a good flame war for awhile.

*gets out popcorn*

Ok, peeps, let us back up and simmer down for a bit.

WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles

Zynx, you are a fucking idiot, and I won't play along this time. Buh-bye.

Not quite right, he is a stupid, ignroant red-necked fucking idiot.

Firthermore, those are his positive aspects.

Never let your sense of morals get in the way of doing what's right.
Isaac Asimov
US science fiction novelist & scholar (1920 - 1992)

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Zynx said:

LIFE, DIO is more than a woman giving birth. That life has a soul, or a
spirit, or possible that life has BECAME by the hand of another/higher
power.

If you denouce these ideals, then simply the biological growth within a
females body is just that. Biological and yes, the woman has every
right to decide on it's outcome.

Yet I do not believe it to be that simple.

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Since you've obviously come late to the discussion thread and did not read the previous material, this is the crux of the issue.

Your belief in a higher power having anything to do with conception is just that - your belief. Imposing your beliefs on all women is the problem. I don't give a flying pigs arse that you think there is a higher power of whatever flavor imparting life/soul/spirit/ka/whatever into the dividing cells that will assemble into a tiny human being eventually. It is what I think that's important, if and when the situation would ever come up. And I'm trying to use "I" as a generic "woman's" voice, so to speak.

Kick-starting the biological processes that begin a new life does typically involve two people - one of each gender. Rather, it involves the necessary sticky by-products of each gender to start it - you don't need both to let the process run it's course (pregnancy). But, as someone previously mentioned, until men can go through the gestation period and carry a baby to term, then it must remain a womans choice, and only a woman choice.

In a perfect, ideal world, whatever decision the woman makes is based on solid discussion, thought and reflection. It should never be made on a whim or at a moments notice. If she is in a committed relationship, then not taking the views of her significant other into account would be cruel. If it was a one night stand or a fling, then the man really isn't involved in the decision making. But it is still a woman's decision to make, no matter what others might urge her to do.

A lot of the stigma of children and their status has changed over time and society's perceptions. Used to be that having a baby out of wedlock was a disgrace and something no nice girl would ever have happen to her. Now, it's a statistic to be counted. In previous centuries, people married younger and had children in their teen. Now - teen mothers are something to be prevented, because it takes time away from the extended childhood that kids have today and will usually lock the teen mother into a less .. comfortable or "enhanced" lifestyle... can't think of the words I want to use here.

Anyways, nothing anyone says about the whole abortion debate can change the fact that it is ultimately a woman's right to choose what to do with her own body.

_____________________

coeur de feu
Qui sème le vent récolte la tempête!

Great post, Rhyssa. However, Zynx won't get any of it!

Yes, nice post Rhyssa. Well said.

WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles

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NoJive said:If you consider DL an 'Idiot" on anything, let alone this topic allow me to call you 'One big dumb fuck.' As far as 'fuckupedness' goes you are right up there with Jade.

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First off, FUNK you very much, you diseased rhinocerous pizzal!

DL got it wrong when I stated that it was a possible motive for man to be only considered as a monetary entity. Meaning perhaps throwing money was just a way of dealing with all of the problems that exists on this issue. I brought it up, but I never said I agreed with it. And yes, if one thinks money has NOTHING to do with the issue of abortion, then they are an idiot. Also I did first ask DL and DIO if I have pegged them wrong. But instead on responding in a normal way they, and you included, you three took the "flame" trail with your disagreement with me.

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NoJive said:Fuck, fuckhead, fuck, nigger, rights, womans body, blah, blah, blah blee-blah.

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No really NoJ, tell me what you really think. Also, I know of many stories of wrongful fairness in abortion of the rights, of each parent. I just find it odd that any money upfront without any say-so in the issue, or any issue, should be furher examined. I know of men doing the right thing, and even though they have been DNA separated from that child, just becasue they signed the birth certificate, in good faith, and love for the woman, and the child, he must still pay. Why? Because the law does not allow an OUT, for DNA evidence to change the status of FATHER. SO he's stuck paying onbey, not to mention the money he has already lost. My story points to how money is used against the man, for reasons not quite understood, but are a gven when having a child. A given, WITHOUT rights. Again, not fair. I pay money, I want rights. Nor rights, no money. Althougth it sounds harsh, would you think of any other thing, that you would agree to, if it was not a life? A house? A car?

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DL-44 said:If your desire is to avoid the responsibility of having a child, both monetary and otherwise, then you NEED to control yourself, and/or take the proper precautions.Consideration of the father is something that any responsible woman, involved in a responsible relationship, needs to have. But it is still her choice.

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DL you are no doubt a father that has his convictions, and more than likely your decisions have worked perfectly for you. What about those who it has not worked well for? That simple assumes too much. It assumes that the man is a bastard, and wants no part in the childs life. It assumes that the woman is an outstanding human being, and that the man SUCKS! It assumes that the decision to have sex, shich resulted in the woman getting pregnant is more of a failure of the man than the woman.

You seem to be fighting for the rights more for the woman than the man. Perhaps you don't slave over a job, day after day, when 30% of that man's money is taken for a kid he has no rights, or no say so, in any aspect of that life, unless the woman gives him permission, or that he makes sure he apys up his end of the agreement? I don't see anything wrong with allowing a voice for the man if he wishes, and if he does not, then he loses rights. And that seems to work fine for the woman than it does for the man.

DEAD-beat moms do exist, and they still have the law on their side. I bellieve it is becasue the majority of judges, man or woman, believe that any chiold is better with the woman than the man. I'm here to tell that it is not a blanket rule that applies to all. Nor is this idea that by simply piercing the egg, the man is reduced to some monetary entity, with no rights.

If no rights, then no money. And if money is not an issue, then why all of the flack? Why all the screaming and yelling for money, but no return. SHouldn't I get something for my money? Why is that such an issue, that people are reduced to calling it evil, or wrong to think of it that way? Or to say that your just not concerned about the child then are you? Why when money is a part of the issue, and it is brought up, that everyone gets squimish, and or defensive.

Just my $0.02.

Rhyssa, I am still reading your level-headed post.

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" The noblest pleasure is the joy of understanding, and being understood. "

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briggl said:However, Zynx won't get any of it!

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Good setup briggl.

Rhyssa, FTSOA, was meant to be just that. For The Sake Of Argument. A devils advocate if you will. You did assume a few things correct about me, but a womans choice was not one of them. I do agree that, first and foremost, any decision to be made is a womans choice. Period. The beliefs that I have nothing to do with a woman making that decision of hers. This includes the man and the government(R v Wade). I guess i was trying to allow show that as stong as people want to try and save the life of an animal, that such simple expectations also be considered with a womans decision. Not forcing those ideas, but considering them. So I do agree with much of what you have said, which makes me think FTSOA is not a term to use around here. I'll guess I'll stick to what I believe, or what I know. Actually I was trying to play the "advocate", to get answers to my own questions, and in hindsight, that was a BAD mistake.

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RhyssaFireheart said:Anyways, nothing anyone says about the whole abortion debate can change the fact that it is ultimately a woman's right to choose what to do with her own body.

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Without devoting more of my blah-blah-blah beliefs about, "man-money-no rights-evil to think such things", I would like to ask this of Rhyssa.

Rhyssa, do you consider the health of that life an issue, if it contradicts the medical community? We know of people who believe that their prayers to heal are enough to help their child heal from whatever afflication they have. But Id like to include definitive medical issues, that conflict with a womans choice. Of course they should be decided on a case by case basis, but would that not be a voice for change against, "the fact that it is ultimately a woman's right to choose what to do with her own body."????

(Edited by Zynx on 11-29-2005 01:46)

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Zynx said:

and more than likely your decisions have worked perfectly for you.

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Making statements like that only helps to demonstrate my previous statement.
The only baseless assumptions I see in the recent posts here are yours.

(Edited by DL-44 on 11-29-2005 03:06)

[quote][b]

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DL-44 said:Making statements like that only helps to demonstrate my previous statement.

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On the issue at hand, DL, I guess that you make good money, in that MONEY for taking care of a child is not an issue for you. I postulate that you are a person who never had to decide about MONEY, when it came to supporting a child. I apologize DL, as I guess I pegged you wrong. I was only trying to show that your ATTITUDE on a MANs MONETARY SUPPORT, seems to more support the womans point of view than the mans. I found it confusing.

I see it like this; unless you understand how MONEY makes a difference, you will never understand the difference that MONEY makes.

(Edited by Zynx on 11-29-2005 04:06)

Your inability to comprehend what I've said is quite astounding.

Your wild assumptions are truly baffling.

Your desire to simply argue is mind-numbing.

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DL, I guess that you make good money, in that MONEY for taking care of a child is not an issue for you. I postulate that you are a person who never had to decide about MONEY, when it came to supporting a child.

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What , in all that DL-44 has written, leads you to this conclusion???

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Zynx said:

Without devoting more of my blah-blah-blah beliefs about, "man-money-no rights-evil to think such things", I would like to ask this of Rhyssa.

Rhyssa, do you consider the health of that life an issue, if it contradicts the medical community? We know of people who believe that their prayers to heal are enough to help their child heal from whatever afflication they have. But Id like to include definitive medical issues, that conflict with a womans choice. Of course they should be decided on a case by case basis, but would that not be a voice for change against, "the fact that it is ultimately a woman's right to choose what to do with her own body

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First off, I've never seen "FTSOA" before and had no idea what it meant.

Secondly, I've read your statement I quoted above several times now, and I still have no freaking idea what the hell you are trying to say and/or ask me.

Health of what life? The fetus? What is contradicting the medical community? It's been documented that mental health and well-being has an effect on physical health and well-being. Your brain can control how you feel physically, and thinking "good thoughts" helps people get well better when they are ill. So yes, prayer can help people get better because they believe in it. Is using prayer in place of having a triple by-pass practical? Not really.

And actually your example of using prayer helps to reinforce the idea that it is ultimately a matter of choice. People have the right to choose what they wish for themselves, as long as they are not deliberately harming others in the process. Most of society doesn't dispute this, except in the case of abortion because of the status of the fetus. Is it a human being or simply a parasitic growth in the woman for ~40 weeks or so? Should the rights of the fetus supercede those of the female carrying said fetus? By extension, why is the mothers/parents right to decide for the child fine after they are born (and is actually the law, I think), but not prior to birth?

These all come down to the status of the fetus prior to birth. And that status is debated endlessly based on religious dogma. The problems come in when some people what to push their views based on their particular religious dogma onto everyone else instead of allowing each person to make their own, personal decision based on their own, personal dogma, religious or not.

_____________________

coeur de feu
Qui sème le vent récolte la tempête!

Briggl, I said that I was making assumptions of DL, I asked if I was "pegging" him wrong, I apologized to him when I was wrong about him, or his assumptions, but he seems to do no wrong.

He got it wrong about my comment with throwing money at an issue, but that didn't matter to him. And others believed him to be right about his false assumption, and that's where it took off with a good amount of "flame".

Too often it seems it is never his mistake when his makes the wrong assumption of another, on the contrary, it's the other person fault for making him make a false assumption.

As for your question, it was simply a bit odd for me to see how vigorously he defended the idea of money on the issue. In his defensive posts, I think he painted a dark portrait of how he views the MAN in this situation. To me, (And again I say perhaps) that seems to have a voice of a man who never had a problem with money with him becoming a father.

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" The noblest pleasure is the joy of understanding, and being understood. "

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RhyssaFireheart said:First off, I've never seen "FTSOA" before and had no idea what it meant.

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Ok, not my fault.

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RhyssaFireheart said:Secondly, I've read your statement I quoted above several times now, and I still have no freaking idea what the hell you are trying to say and/or ask me. Health of what life? The fetus? What is contradicting the medical community?

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I was trying too hard to keep away from using certain terms, baby, fetus, child, unborn, and such. Sorry that wasn't clearer on my part. I was asking the question, that if the life of the fetus is in danger of death, baseed on the doctors at hand, but the woman still wants to try and take the fetus to full term, is it still her choice, even though there exists a 95% chance, that the fetus will die?

Also, what example of mine? "actually your example of using prayer helps to,....."

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" The noblest pleasure is the joy of understanding, and being understood. "

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He got it wrong about my comment with throwing money at an issue, but that didn't matter to him. And others believed him to be right about his false assumption, and that's where it took off with a good amount of "flame".

Too often it seems it is never his mistake when his makes the wrong assumption of another, on the contrary, it's the other person fault for making him make a false assumption.

As for your question, it was simply a bit odd for me to see how vigorously he defended the idea of money on the issue. In his defensive posts, I think he painted a dark portrait of how he views the MAN in this situation. To me, (And again I say perhaps) that seems to have a voice of a man who never had a problem with money with him becoming a father.

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Man, you are truly messed up, and fixated to the point that you cannot see straight. I would seriously suggest that you stand down, and not only examine your own posts for the huge mistakes in them, but also DLs and others here for the sound information that they contain.

DL is not the only one who is, and has been poitning this out to you, Zynx, time and time again. I suggest you think about what that means and why that is.

" Perhaps this is just a way of dealing with all of the problems that exists on this issue. Throw money at it. " = Zynx
" What "throwing money" at anything has to do with the issue is quite beyond me. You obviously have your priorities pretty fucked up. " = DL

I never posted it as my priority, so how am I wrong?

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WebShaman said:Man, you are truly messed up, and fixated to the point that you cannot see straight. I would seriously suggest that you stand down, and not only examine your own posts for the huge mistakes in them, but also DLs and others here for the sound information that they contain.DL is not the only one who is, and has been poitning this out to you, Zynx, time and time again. I suggest you think about what that means and why that is.

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I guess I will take your advice and stand down. What with all of the "sound advice", i've been given like fucked up, sexist pig, Mr. fuck up, fuckhead, fucking idiot, stupid ignorant rednecked fucking idiot, shithead, and so on, it's no wonder I'm messed up.

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" The noblest pleasure is the joy of understanding, and being understood. "

If it weren't for the fact that you seem to turn every discussion into an endless and pointless argument, ingoring the majority of what is said for the sake of prolonging arguments....

I might go back and re-explain what has been said. You have made it clear several times now that it just is not worth the effort.

That you take offense at such words after the types of malicious insults you have lashed out with in the past is quite absurd as well.

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" Perhaps this is just a way of dealing with all of the problems that exists on this issue. Throw money at it. " = Zynx
" What "throwing money" at anything has to do with the issue is quite beyond me. You obviously have your priorities pretty fucked up. " = DL

I never posted it as my priority, so how am I wrong?

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You posted

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Throw money at it

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If you don't wish something like that statement to be considered directly coming from you, you need to state that. Nobody can read your mind. Look at what you posted, just what is there, not what you interpret into it.

Also, the fact that you keep bringing up the money angle, is pretty telling. It is obviously something that is important to you, or something that you wish to argue about. That makes it a fucked up priority, in and of itself.

Fact? Again DL does no wrong! Factual mistakes just don't exist for you.

I might have expected an effort if your assumptions were correct.

Key words here DL, "in the past". But it's nice to know you DO hold a grudge.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
" The noblest pleasure is the joy of understanding, and being understood. "

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WebShaman said:You posted, "Throw money at it". If you don't wish something like that statement to be considered directly coming from you, you need to state that. Nobody can read your mind.

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That's bull. So now I'm suppose to only discuss what I believe, and nothing else? That I should only bring forth ideas that are only my own?
And I if know of another idea on the issue, but I don't fully agree with it, then I should never mention it? WTF?

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WebShaman said:Also, the fact that you keep bringing up the money angle, is pretty telling. It is obviously something that is important to you, or something that you wish to argue about. That makes it a fucked up priority, in and of itself.

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Pretty telling? So people do make assumptions about a persons posts. So if your wrong about your assumption of me, then can I use profanity on you? And if you disagree with it, can I blame you for that as well?

WS, I thought it was, "Nobody can read your mind."

(Edited by Zynx on 11-29-2005 22:19)

Zynx, if you would make sense on occasion, maybe others would understand you and what you are saying.

Quite frankly, I can't make out how in the hell you come to such wacked out conclusions.

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So people do make assumptions about a persons posts.

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From what I have seen posted here from you, and others, I can only see assumptions on your part. And you seem unable to grasp this.

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That's bull. So now I'm suppose to only discuss what I believe, and nothing else? That I should only bring forth ideas that are only my own?
And I if know of another idea on the issue, but I don't fully agree with it, then I should never mention it? WTF?

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No.

Nobody has said different. But if you are going to do such, then you need to make damned clear that it isn't your belief or idea that you are mentioning to avoid miscommunication! The way you have presented the beliefs/ideas, one is under the impression that it comes directly from you. Since you are the initiator of the communication, the feedback that you receive should tell you that your message did not get communicated correctly, and you should have corrected the message accordingly - you did not. Instead, you lashed out at those who gave you the feedback. That makes you at fault, not them.

You need to take some basic communication classes.

quote:

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Zynx said:

Key words here DL, "in the past". But it's nice to know you DO hold a grudge.

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Sorry, but the keyword here is "repetition".

I do not hold a grudge, which should be quite evident in the patience you have been shown, even after your violent racist comments to WS a while back.

I simply grow weary of your games (or your ingorance, whichever the case may be).



(Edited by DL-44 on 11-30-2005 18:17)

On a more relevant note:
A couple of interesting news stories -

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/11/29/scotus.abortion/index.html

http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/11/30/alito.ap/index.html

Looks as though those who fear Alito's stance on RvW are somewhat justified.

I think I'll look into investing in a chain of clinics along, but just over the border.

Never let your sense of morals get in the way of doing what's right.
Isaac Asimov
US science fiction novelist & scholar (1920 - 1992)

I think I need a break. ALL respects to you both. And to the possible many others.

quote:

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WebShaman said:, I can't make out how in the hell you come to such wacked out conclusions.

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I'm sorry but I do. I think I just need to verbalize them better.

quote:

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WebShaman said:From what I have seen posted here from you, and others, I can only see assumptions on your part.

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"pretty telling", isn't that an assumption?

quote:

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WebShaman said:, one is under the impression that it comes directly from you.

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I will try to verbalize my posts better.

quote:

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WebShaman said:Since you are the initiator of the communication, the feedback that you receive should tell you that your message did not get communicated correctly,

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Ok, I agree, but the feedback I FIRST received was profane, and vulgar, and incorrect. What message does that communicate?

quote:

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WebShaman said:and you should have corrected the message accordingly - you did not. Instead, you lashed out at those who gave you the feedback. That makes you at fault, not them.

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I completely disagree. They lashed out with profanity & vulgarity FIRST. So there was no point to correct my original message/statement.

quote:

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DL-44 said:Sorry, but the keyword here is "repetition".

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I can honor that, as long as you do the same for yourself.

quote:

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DL-44 said:I do not hold a grudge, which should be quite evident in the patience
you have been shown, even after your violent racist comments to WS a while back.

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"The patience you have been shown"? Is that some sort of GIFT you have given me? Not that it's any of your business anyways, but I think I am on a good path in re-building that bridge between WS and me. No I am not done, but I do continue to try and close that stupid-GAP that I created with WS.

quote:

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DL-44 said:I simply grow weary of your games (or your ingorance, whichever the case may be).

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DL, I assure you that I am ALWAYS posting with honesty! No games played here. Whatever your view of me, I can safely say that I am being as true to myself as I can be. Not good enough for ya? Not my fault.





And I'm spent.

C-ya in the funny papers!

(Edited by Zynx on 12-01-2005 03:30)