I believe this hit at Christianity is disgusting. How could this be allowed to air.
Though they cannot insult ISLAM or Scientology. They hit Christians at their most Holy Week of the year.
1) to use the term persecution in this case is ludicrous.
There are real cases of religious persecution out there - you belittle them by claiming the same in silly cases like this.
2) You are obivously not very familiar with South Park. They have constantly ridiculed every possible group out there - religious or not - including muslims and scientologists.
They were barred from specific imagery in regard to islam on this particular episode. The scientology episode did air. They changed their mind on re-airing the episode.
3) How could it *not* be allowed to air? They are under no obligation to be sensitive to your feelings or beliefs. You are under no obligation to watch.
4) In what way is this a shot at christianity anyway?
I must admit I was a little dumbfounded to find a south-aprk episode to be the center of attention.
I'm sure the people being stabbed in their churches because of their religion would sympathize with the horrible persecution you are suffering at the hands of a latenight cartoon though
Yeah I was too DL but I'm having too much fun with this to let an opportunity to use a character pass. (I found the site through F1_error's website).
Co-incidentally your last link reminded me of the last time I went to midnight Mass a long while back. A fight broke out between opposing factions at the back of the church disrupting the service. There were broken bones but no stabbings. The opposing factions? Liverpool and Man United supporters, carrying on an argument that started off in a bar hours earlier.
Jade, I know this looks like I am totally disregarding your post, but I am not. Give to Caesar what is Caesars. Any belief I may have in a God in not at all affected by Comedy Central. If it was, I would be questioning my belief, not the script writers.
quote:Jade: I believe this hit at Christianity is disgusting. How could this be allowed to air.
You obviously did not watch the show or just totally missed the point of the show. I am guessing the former, which means you did not see the context in which the "offending" material was presented. There is always an underlying theme to South Park and it was not just some attempt to make a mockery of Christianity. IMO, this was one of the best South Park episodes ever because the main underlying theme was freedom of speech and the use of fear (terrorism) to undermine that freedom. Obviously you do not believe in this first amendment right. Instead, you want the government/network censors to protect you from things you have an intolerance toward. Well fuck that!
People like you need to stop with the righteous indignation/oversensitivity bullshit. That is one of the biggest problems with our society today. If you cannot handle living in a society where we have this freedom (somewhat), why not do us all a favor and bury your head in the sand as a gesture of protest?
*sigh*
You just do not get it.
The real issue is not that they had Jesus poop on Bush, but that they were not allowed to show Mohammed. That says a lot about the current hypocrisy of America. Land of the semi-free, home of the fearful pussies!
quote:DL: I'm sure the people being stabbed in their churches because of their religion would sympathize with the horrible persecution you are suffering at the hands of a latenight cartoon though
ROFL.
quote:Tao: The opposing factions? Liverpool and Man United supporters, carrying on an argument that started off in a bar hours earlier.
1. a. The action of persecuting or pursuing with enmity and malignity; esp. the infliction of death, torture, or penalties for adherence to a religious belief or an opinion as such, with a view to the repression or extirpation of it; the fact of being persecuted; an instance of this.
(emphasis mine)
You should be careful of the words you throw around...
I would also like to point out how important it is for you, jade, to watch the actual show you're complaining about. There was a context, believe it or not, to Jesus defecating. In the show, Muslims, in retaliation to the showing of an image of Mohammed on American television, broadcast a cartoon of Jesus and others defecating on one another. It was the Muslim characters' lame and purposely ridiculous "payback" at the American characters' showing an image of Mohammed. It quite effectively demonstrated how retarded the whole issue is. South Park did not just randomly show Jesus taking a dump. Again -- because I know you will have missed it the first time -- it was the Muslim characters broadcasting an unfunny cartoon in retaliation to the American characters broadcasting an image of Mohammed.
And I wholeheartedly agree that you have grossly misused the term "persecution." I'm getting sick and tired of hearing Christians complain that they're being repressed because somebody mocks them with a cartoon or because Target puts up a sign that says "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas." Consider yourselves incredibly blessed that you live in a country where you can choose your own religion and follow it without having to meet secretly in basements, fearing for your lives!
Ok.. I know I didn't spell the word right but I could not correct it after I saw it. The site would not let me change the title.
But the views represented here just proved my view on the insensitivty of persons who mock religion for a laugh. I know the extent of why it was presented in regard to free speech.. This mockery hurts many of its followers. Any kind of mockery and satire made towards religions means that or those persons have small minds and hearts.
From: Happy Hunting Grounds... Insane since: Mar 2001
posted 04-17-2006 15:44
quote:Any kind of mockery and satire made towards religions means that or those persons have small minds and hearts.
Actually, alot of it comes from getting Religion crammed down ones throats from said religious institutions. If they would stop doing such, and stop interefering with the lives of those who are not interested in their beliefs, then I think such mockery and satire would probably decline.
If religious instutitions and people want to believe in something, well that is fine.
I object to how those institutions and people attempt to force-feed the world their beliefs.
WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles
quote:object to how those institutions and people attempt to force-feed the world their beliefs
I think most of the free world has a freedom to accept whatever they want in regard to faiths. Religious creeds are not being forced on anyone.... last I checked. Though you have a right to object ...this quote doesn't apply to the free world.
I just believe for Christians who were in observance in the most holiest week of the year, it was just very bad humor. I will just pray that the South Park series may be taken off the air in the near future.
Jade, why is it you aren't satisfied with simply not watching the show? The more you harp on it, the more attention you bring them. They didn't break into your church service and interrupt the sermon. From what I can tell, you only heard about it after fact. Had you never heard it happened, you wouldn't have been affected in the least. Is your faith so fragile that hearing a secondhand report about someone making fun of your religion shakes you so badly?
If your faith were really strong, you'd shrug it off, knowing it doesn't change how you feel.
By the way, you can't revel in your freedom while trying to deny others theirs. Don't stand up for your freedom to worship God while insisting others shouldn't have the freedom to watch the television shows they want to watch. You can't have it both ways.
quote:Religious creeds are not being forced on anyone.... last I checked.
Out of curiosity, do you talk about your religion to your children ? do you talk to them about other religions ? in objective terms ? do you bring/did you brought them to church ? have you baptized them ? if so, was it with their concent ?
quote:I will just pray that the South Park series may be taken off the air in the near future.
quote:Out of curiosity, do you talk about your religion to your children ? do you talk to them about other religions ? in objective terms ? do you bring/did you brought them to church ? have you baptized them ? if so, was it with their concent ?
For sure... I do want to give my children the opportunity to save their souls. When they get older they can choose for themselves. what faith they want to die with.
In Norway,, what language do you speak? Are you going to teach your children that language as opposed to Russian? If your going to teach them the language you speak,.... why? Isn't it because they can communicate better in your country? Or maybe you may want to teach them your language when they are 18 that way your giving them the opportunity to choose for themselves what lanugage they may want to speak. See how silly your quote sounds. For me, teaching children about the christian God does no harm. They are given the opportunity to change and become athiest at any time in their lives.
Do you honestly think you do not force feed your religion to your children ? Warning, you might reconsider what you said in your third post.
FWIW, I speak English, slowly learn Norwegian, and have a crush for a Russian girl who speak fluently Norwegian and English and wants to learn French. So if ever I have some children with her, they gonna learn Norwegian and English plus some bits of French and Russian.
Anyway, I fail to see a relation between teaching language(s) to children and imposing them one religion.
From: The Land of one Headlight on. Insane since: May 2001
posted 04-17-2006 21:42
Jade: Would you please endeavor to upgrade the level or your analogies/arguments. You consistantly put forward notions that, being gentle, fall somewhere between infantile and juvenile.
Your analogies probably work with most of both groups but even amongst 'believers' I'm betting they're just shaking their heads with some, if not all your analogies.
Go talk to a priest... tell him what you say here.... see if he can give you a few ideas on upgrading.
Knowledge of a native language is secondary in relation to the communication of the soul to God.
No jive, Do I really have to upgrade if I don't want to?
Communication with God is very important for a child to learn at a very young age. To grow in
wisdom in the knowledge of God is primary in the life as a soul as Christ grew in wisdom of
things in scripture from his parents Mary and Joseph. Should they have told Jesus to learn
about life's principles in relation to good and evil by experience. Let him choose on his own
thru trial and error at 8 yrs. old. Should they have him seek a generic God that can apply to all souls?
They taught Jesus they ways of their faith not that he had to learn them since he was God in
the second person.
quote:jade said: This mockery hurts many of its followers. Any kind of mockery and satire made towards religions means that or those persons have small minds and hearts.
Jade, have you heard this, "Is nothing sacred?"
While I am inclined to agree with such a statement, I'd like to remind you of this countrys US constitution.
quote:Do I really have to upgrade if I don't want to?
No, Jade, you fully have the right to remain cretinous and unintelligible.
Once again, you demonstrate the majority of Christians' deliberate ignorance.
For the record, I believe in God. I pray. But I acknowledge everyone's freedom in this country to believe and do as they wish, so long as they hurt no one else. And I was taught when I was 4 years old that being called names doesn't hurt me.
Jade, go out and focus your energy on something that will actually help someone. And I don't mean just praying for them or convincing them to "give their life to Christ" or taking away a TV show they'll just go out and buy on DVD -- I mean go out and do something.
Wes.. I do lots ot stuff to make a difference.. I am in involved in breast cancer awarness, partook in immigration protest here recently, visit nursing homes to care for elderly, involved in ministries in my church, help food pantry for city. Collect goods for it also...and this is in addition to raising a family, attending to a large home and a full time job with high stress...I want no reward but I feel I never do enough for have enough time to do more.
Can we just live in a more harmonious world where people are more caring about other persons beliefs. Sometimes censorship can be a good thing.
And where does it end? Who decides what should and should not be censored? Should we censor all religious language because it may offend someone? Hardly. While I certainly don't enjoy being preached at, I don't deny someone their right to preach - and I have the right to not listen.
quote: jade said:
Can we just live in a more harmonious world where people are more caring about
other persons beliefs
Gosh, wouldn't that be nice? However, we don't. You need to pick your battles, jade. If you are going to do battle against persecution - do something to stand up for those Christians who are being killed in various parts of the world simply because of their belief.
If you are so concerned about your own religion being mocked - don't participate in the mockery of other religions. Halloween for example. Look into the history of pre-Christian Europe if you need further clarification.
From: Happy Hunting Grounds... Insane since: Mar 2001
posted 04-19-2006 01:01
quote:I object to how those institutions and people attempt to force-feed the world their beliefs
I think most of the free world has a freedom to accept whatever they want in regard to faiths. Religious creeds are not being forced on anyone.... last I checked. Though you have a right to object ...this quote doesn't apply to the free world.
I said attempt - I would like to see you upgrade your reading skills, please.
And yes, the major Xian faiths and institutions do attempt to force their view on others, irregardless of whether or not we are talking about the free world. I think the attempt to get ID into Science class is a good example of such. Good thing it failed miserably.
WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles
I am not retreating but I would say you complain too much about the Christian faith as if it sickens you.
Why ? Are you not a firm believer in persons doing what they want which is to practice freely any kind of creed they want? So what if they want to worship pigs, or goats or chickens for that matter. Why not pick on the Scientologist. Or the Mormans and the Jew?
From: Happy Hunting Grounds... Insane since: Mar 2001
posted 04-20-2006 14:21
quote:I would say you complain too much about the Christian faith as if it sickens you.
Jade, I believe you started this thread with the heading Christian presecutiion.
*looks up*
Yup.
Then I gave you a response to that.
And then YOU spouted off some nonsense, before actually reading what was posted.
And I responded to that.
Now, what does your comment have to do with the topic at hand?
Again, you sidestep the issue.
And to be honest, I don't complain about the Xian faith. I also never said that such sickens me. Wherever did you get such silly notions? I have stated that I used to be a Xian. However, I still do not see such being relevant to this topic.
And that which I have posted in this thread in no way, shape, or form constitutes complaining, or is showing that I am "sickened" by the Xian faith.
WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles
From: Out on the Sea of Madness... Insane since: Dec 2003
posted 04-24-2006 21:26
quote: jade said:
Why not pick on the Scientologist. Or the Mormans and the Jew?
So wait a minute... it's persecution if the Christians are targeted, but not if Scientologists, Mormons or Jews? And while I realize that you are directing this quote to WS specifically because you feel he picks on Christians unfairly or something, you are simply proving your own narrow-mindedness to me.
In re: the question about teaching your children about your faith as they are growing up. I don't particularly mind that so much (err... 12 years of Catholic schooling will do that to ya.. yeah) as long as the children are exposed to other faiths and religions and beliefs as a matter of course. Jade, you wrote:
quote: jade said:
For sure... I do want to give my children the opportunity to save their souls. When they get older they can choose for themselves. what faith they want to die with.
...
For me, teaching children about the christian God does no harm. They are given the opportunity to change and become athiest at any time in their lives.
Now I'm just guessing here, but looking over a few of your posts, I highly doubt you'd be fine with any of your kids choosing to be anything but the same faith you subscribe to when they grow up. Even if they chose a different flavor of faith, I have the feeling you wouldn't be happy until they were back in the fold of the saved where they can ascend to heaven upon the Rapture.
As for completely changing faiths? Can you honestly, HONESTLY say that you would be happy for your children if this happened, and would allow them to practice their new faith in peace? Be careful with your response here, because your biases are very obvious and very open. If you truly were as tolerant as your second quote would have people believe, then a cartoon wouldn't upset you and you wouldn't so wrong-mindedly call it "persecution."
quote:As for completely changing faiths? Can you honestly, HONESTLY say that you would be happy for your children if this happened, and would allow them to practice their new faith in peace? Be careful with your response here, because your biases are very obvious and very open. If you truly were as tolerant as your second quote would have people believe, then a cartoon wouldn't upset you and you wouldn't so wrong-mindedly call it "persecution."
I follow the foot steps of our famous biblical parents, Joseph and Mary...They brought Jesus up as a practicing Jew from birth and when he was twelve he was already preaching in the temple.. They would of never waited till he was twelve and then let him decide... Like them they would of been heartbroken if Jesus became a pagan.. I do believe my children will be life long Catholics as they already are teaching religion in their churchs..and in the footsteps of their savior who starting evangelizing when he was only 12..This is real church.
We were reading up on the Opus Dei organization and were all thinking of becoming members now that we understand what it professes and practices... Since its been in the news here lately with the Di Vinci Code coming out its brought the organization to the surface.. I believe its a good way to practice faith.
Its typical for non-religious to state all faithfull believers are" brainwashed" as in a cult..
Its not brainwashing its love of God who draws us to follow in the way he ordains.
Its typical for non-religious to state all faithfull believers are" brainwashed" as in a cult..
And why shouldn't it be?
It is very typical for brainwashed members of cults to deny their brainwashing, and claim that it is the rest of the world that simply does not understand the truth.
The jonestown folk felt that way. The followers of David karesh, Manson's crowd, and every other cult out there, including the catholic cult.
Just because you beleive your cult to be the 'right' one, doesn't make it any less a cult.
quote:It is very typical for brainwashed members of cults to deny their brainwashing, and claim that it is the rest of the world that simply does not understand the truth.
So that would mean you believe the Jesus movement is a a cult in many forms from day one after Christ ressureciton or is it what you feel Christians have made of the faith in regard to practices, dogma and doctrine that you don't care for. If so,,, then this would be percieved to you as 2000 years and counting worth of brainwashing. Even the best political, philosohical, analytical, superior intelligent minds and scholars have accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. Are they brainwashed as well according to you? You are just a small mind compared to the great minds of the century. That being said what do you see that they have not.
Your in a very small minority. Even the Islam faith believes Christ was a great prophet and have great reverence for his mother Mary. So your view is in a very small minortity.
2) what does that have to do with anything? The majority of people in the world are not christian. So you are in a minority. Does that change your faith? Of course not. So why bother throwing around such childish and ignorant statements as if they actually mean something?
quote: jade said:
Even the Islam faith believes Christ was a great prophet and have great reverence for his mother Mary.
That may be so, but christians are still viewed as infidels... =)
Not sure what point you are trying to press there...
quote: jade said:
Even the best political, philosohical, analytical, superior intelligent minds and scholars have accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior.
That certainly requires qualification and examples. I'm certain my opinion and yours on who are the 'best' and 'superior' minds are fairly different. There are lists all around of the great minds who have rejected christianity and/or religion in general...
From: Happy Hunting Grounds... Insane since: Mar 2001
posted 04-25-2006 22:50
Very well said, DL.
quote:Even the best political, philosohical, analytical, superior intelligent minds and scholars have accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior.
And I believe that the Mahatma Gandhi was not Xian, Jade. Nor were the majority of Greek Philosophers or Teachers. Neither were Chinese Astrologers, or those from South America, or the Middle Eastern regions, nor those from India. And neither was Sequoyah - http://www.manataka.org/page81.html.
Just check my sig
In fact, measured on a scale including human history as Science measures it, I would say that is definitely not true.
So, brainwashing and propaganda on your part, Jade.
WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles
From: Rochester, New York, USA Insane since: May 2000
posted 04-26-2006 00:30
One of the standard definitions of cult is
quote:A system or community of religious worship and ritual.
Based on this definition you can pretty much lump any religion into the definition of cult.
A primary definition of this is
quote:A religion or religious sect generally considered to be extremist or false, with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader.
which would and would not define Christianity depending upon who *generally* would refer to.
Christianity is not easily defined. It is a bunch of people who have differing ideas about their faith from one community to the next and even one family to the next in the same community. I have heard Born Agains call Catholism a cult and Catholics call born again crazy. Were you to take each group separately you would find a number of distinct cults (based on the definition) that believe that Jesus of Nazarath is the resurected son of the one true god.
Why write all this? Just to show you that just because you might have ideas that your beliefs are the norm based upon your community you will find that they are not. When you try and pit any of your beliefs against the world at large you will always find that you are in the minority.
You live in a world where a basic ideas such as *Killing others is wrong* or *Being killed by another is wrong* is not universally held truth. With this in mind trying to make all others see that your far more precise ideologies are a universal truth is near impossible.
Not only is this near impossible but when you gather large groups of people who are trying to do this with oposite agendas you are going to find that the basic idea tha *killing others is wrong* has just been thrown out with the bath water.
In all things tollerance is the key, and I don't know if anyone knows where it went.
From: Happy Hunting Grounds... Insane since: Mar 2001
posted 04-26-2006 07:07
quote:Christianity is not easily defined. It is a bunch of people who have differing ideas about their faith from one community to the next and even one family to the next in the same community. I have heard Born Agains call Catholism a cult and Catholics call born again crazy. Were you to take each group separately you would find a number of distinct cults (based on the definition) that believe that Jesus of Nazarath is the resurected son of the one true god.
Why write all this? Just to show you that just because you might have ideas that your beliefs are the norm based upon your community you will find that they are not. When you try and pit any of your beliefs against the world at large you will always find that you are in the minority.
You live in a world where a basic ideas such as *Killing others is wrong* or *Being killed by another is wrong* is not universally held truth. With this in mind trying to make all others see that your far more precise ideologies are a universal truth is near impossible.
Not only is this near impossible but when you gather large groups of people who are trying to do this with oposite agendas you are going to find that the basic idea tha *killing others is wrong* has just been thrown out with the bath water.
In all things tollerance is the key, and I don't know if anyone knows where it went.
Which is all fine and dandy...as long as the institution in question (cult, if you will ) keeps its beliefs to itself, and does not try to force them on others. Members can consider themselves the Grand High Poobas of truth, and look down their noses at other, less unfortunate "beings" - and as long as they are keeping their beliefs to themselves, fine.
Xianity however is not tolerant; it attempts to force its beliefs on others.
WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles
From: Out on the Sea of Madness... Insane since: Dec 2003
posted 04-26-2006 07:32
quote: jade said:
I do believe my
children will be life long Catholics as they already are teaching religion in their churchs..and in the footsteps of their savior who starting evangelizing when he was only 12..This is real church.
So by implication, they are still living in your household and are under your protection and/or control. If their faith holds beyond moving out of the home and growing into their own lives, more power to them. My mother probably thought the same way you do, which is why I and two of my brothers went to a Catholic grade school and our youngest brother only went through 6th grade. I was the only one that chose to go to a Catholic high school, but even by the time I was getting ready to goto college I had begun questioning my faith. One thing that I never realized was of value until I moved away from home for the first time to goto college was the morals that I was taught as part of the faith. However, I could keep those morals without the faith, and I've done so. I'm sure my mom isn't too ecstatic that none of her children are practicing anything (afaik, my older brother might be Lutheran if he's anything), but I've fallen away from Catholicism completely. On the odd occasion where I do attend chruch for whatever reason, it's not because I truly believe in the rituals, but because they have a lingering meaning to me based on childhood memories.
Do I believe in a creator? I believe that there is a intelligence that is behind "all this" but to call it God, Jesus, YHWH, Buddha or any other name that the prevalent religions use is not what I think. I'd describe myself as a creative evolutionist, not that it matters.
And I have no idea why I'm rambling tonight. I even updated my blog twice in one day. What's wrong with me?!?!
From: The Land of one Headlight on. Insane since: May 2001
posted 04-26-2006 13:31
quote:In all things tollerance is the key, and I don't know if anyone knows where it went.
To hell in a handbasket of course. =)
But seriously... for me it all gets back to power and control. The more fervent the follower the more willing they seem to allow themselves to be controlled in virtually all aspects of their lives. They operate from 'we belive god hears the smallest voice' ...which is why you get prayers like.... please god help me find my car keys...and while you're at it cancel that tv show. I find that degree of devotion just very very sad.
I find that degree of devotion just very very sad.
I think it's beautiful. My son asks me to play with him every single minute I'm in his vicinity. If not then he wants to watch Batman. If not that then this, then this then this. He rarely has his priorities in line with my own but he loves me, loves to be with me and knows to ask me for anything his heart desires because I have the power to grant it.
I find your perspective on it to be sad to be honest.
Forgive me if I misinterpret you, NoJive, but I think possibly "dependence" would be a more appropriate word that "devotion."
And that sort of dependence is expected for a child. Children can't always help themselves and are therefore dependent on their parents. By the time you're an adult, however, such dependencies should be overcome. I'd say it would be highly inappropriate for an adult to act like a child in such a way, asking someone else to take care of every little thing.
By the way, as Jade has addressed only the peripheral points of others' posts, I've completely lost track of this thread's purpose.
quote:Only last week, "South Park" won broadcasting's prestigious Peabody. Awards director Horace Newcomb said at the time that by its offensiveness, the show "reminds us of the need for being tolerant."
This is probably the most important part of that news story and I think it's that point that you are missing, Jade. You need to understand that there is a huge difference between the faithful and the religious (to me anyway). You don't need religion to be faithful and you don't need faith to be religious. I see this proven every day by religious hypocrits worldwide. I have faith in many things. All that means is I believe something that can't be proven. I do not continue to believe things that are proven to be different from my beliefs. That would be foolish. I do not attempt to convert people to my way of thinking in any way what-so-ever. If someone asks. I answer. If they don't ask... they don't know. That is my definition of tolerance. I don't wear my beliefs like a banner to express them to everyone and anyone. You're Christian... big deal. That guy over there is gay.... Big deal. I don't care about your personal choices until it's impossible for me to avoid them. There is something abrassive and uncouth with taking something as personal as sexuality or faith (or any other ridiculous thing to have pride in) and throwing it into the public arena.
quote:When they get older they can choose for themselves. what faith they want to die with.
Funny, that. I though Faith was supposed to teach you how to live not how to die.
From: The Land of one Headlight on. Insane since: May 2001
posted 04-27-2006 07:39
I find that degree of devotion just very very sad.
Very poor phrasing/choice of words on my part.
I wasn't at all thinking about 'children'... and how their parents may or may not be devoted to them but rather those individuals so wired (devoted) to a god they will actually pray to their god and ask her to help them find their eye glasses, car keys and similar.
The 'we believe god hears the smallest voice' is a direct quote from some church literature and has nothing to do with 'children..but everything to do with eye glasses and car keys.
From: Happy Hunting Grounds... Insane since: Mar 2001
posted 04-27-2006 18:31
JK, you exist. Your son exists. The interactions between both of your reinforces the fact that you both exist. Being dedicated and devoted to real things, especially living things, is a very valuable trait to have.
However, now apply that which your son does, to an "imaginary" friend. Not you (you get ignored, and/or pushed to the side, in favor of "bob").
Would you start to get concerned about your son? Would you still find that beautiful?
If it was my daughter, I wouldn't. I'd be concerned as hell.
WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles
quote:Which is all fine and dandy...as long as the institution in question (cult, if you will ) keeps its beliefs to itself, and does not try to force them on others. Members can consider themselves the Grand High Poobas of truth, and look down their noses at other, less unfortunate "beings" - and as long as they are keeping their beliefs to themselves, fine.
I heard it put like this and I agree with it. (Don't think I'm trying to force you to see it this way. Once I type this you can choose for yourself to agree or not. ) What if almost all the people in the world had a deadly disease. They were dying left and right with no cure in site. Then one day a person found the cure. Would he want to hoard himself up and not speak about it, or would he want to share it with the whole world so they too could be saved from this disease? And likewise you can refuse the cure. But why would anyone who is dying refuse a cure that could save their life? This is why Christians tell you about Christ. We believe that sin is the disease that is going to kill you and send you to a burning hell and that Christ is the cure that can save you from this death. What if you saw someone about to walk out in front of a bus and you had time to warn them of the danger but you just sat back and watched them stroll out unknowingly into the traffic? I'm sure you would feel bad about it later. Most of us would anyway. By not telling our kids about Christ and raising them up the way we believe to us it's just like letting our 5 year old decide for it's self if it wants to look both ways before crossing the street. Are you going to do that? More than likely you are going to arm your child with the knowledge and understanding of this world to prepare it and then when it's time you have to let the child go and be a man or a woman. Even then you don't have to like what they become. If they go out and pull for the Braves when your team is the Dodgers then you'll have to deal with it. You can root for your own team anyway. Right in front of them if you want. I probably should have put a paragraph in this.
I also meant to talk about not watching or listening to things that offend you. There is this one radio show, Walton and Johnson, and I listen to them when I'm at work. I miss a lot of the show during the time that I'm at work but I do catch bits and pieces. I agree with them on a lot of topics. There are some that offends me though and I will turn them off for a month or so. They would probably find it amusing.
Non-believers aren't the only ones getting something shoved down their throats. If you've watched TV lately it seems everyone is trying to cram something in your head to make you think the way they do. From politicians to homosexuals to homosexual politicians. Ban gays, don't ban gays. Silence the Christians, let the Christians speak. Don't ignore my race, ignore that race. Guns cause crime, mine are defective. Send money now. Feed the hungry. (Please move them to better land.) Buy my CD! Get the Joke of the Day! Get this guitar and you can play like Estiban.
Then to loosely quote Blazing Saddles "What are your qualifications?" "Rape murder theft and rape" "You said rape twice." "I like rape." Just because we like something doesn't mean it's ok or right to do it. Most of the sins you will commit against someone else. Lying, stealing and other stuff like that. Christians or religious people don't make it any easier putting even more restrictions on what can and can't be done. Don't wear makeup. Don't wear pants if you're a girl. No kilts if you're a guy. Make sure the sleeves of your shirts come down to your forearm. Be sure that skirt is so tight we can read the label of your underwear. No TV but don't let anyone know I have one in my closet. Some churches are stricter than they need to be. Some are to lax. Just say 17 hail Marys and you will be absolved from killing those people. Why do they even do this? If they would read the bible then they would see that Jesus died for our sins. The veil was torn from top to bottom. (The veil was the thing separating people from the Holy of Holies in the temple where priests would enter to talk to God.) That means we can talk directly to Him cutting out the middle man so to speak. Sorry I got off my first train of thought but there is a lot of things about the Catholic church I don't understand. They don't seem biblically sane.
From: Happy Hunting Grounds... Insane since: Mar 2001
posted 04-29-2006 11:25
The difference between having a cure for a disease, and wishing to share it, and having a BELIEF that one has a cure for a disease, and wishes to share it, are lightyears apart.
The first is proven, can be reliably tested to work by others, and actually does cure the disease.
The second is not proven, and there is not one iota of evidence that anyone has been able to reliably demonstrate that it works, and there is no evidence, whatsover that it cures anything.
As such, attempting to force the second example on others has no basis for doing so, other than a group or institution has decided to attempt to do so against the will of those who do not wish to believe.
WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles
You're missing my point. To someone who does believe, they are not light years apart, they are the same.
quote:...other than a group or institution has decided to attempt to do so against the will of those who do not wish to believe.
You're just going to have to get used to this one my friend. Everyone gets things forced on them against their will. I still have to open the door, take the pamphlets, smile, shut the door and take the watchtowers to the trash.
And did you hear about the new technology that will recognize a commercial and prevent you from turning the channel? Hows that for forcing something down someones throat? I can't imagine how they would sell it to an individual unless they didn't give them a choice. Wow choice. What a concept. Even though we can't always choose what our ears hear and our eyes see we can always choose if we apply that information or just discard it.
quote:Everyone gets things forced on them against their will. I still have to open the door, take the pamphlets, smile, shut the door and take the watchtowers to the trash.
No, you don't have to open the door. You don't have to take the pamphlets. You don't have to smile. If you choose to do so, then as you said, you can throw the Watchtowers in the trash. Nothing was forced on you. Nothing.
quote:Even though we can't always choose what our ears hear and our eyes see we can always choose if we apply that information or just discard it.
Which completely contradicts your point that we must get used to things being forced on us. If you have the choice, then nothing was forced on you. You make the choice to turn the radio back on and listen to Walton and Johnson after they've offended you. And you do so knowing they will eventually offend you again. Your choice. To watch TV knowing that someone will eventually mention tolerance of homosexuality is your choice.
If you want to avoid all of that, then stick to TBN. And when the day comes when the Jehovah's Witnesses rally together to remove any programming that teaches the Trinity, then you can complain about something being forced on you.
I find it sickening that you believe anyone has to accept things being forced on them.
The fact that you feel these people actually have a *right* to intrude on you attempting to force their beliefs on you, and you are somehow obligated to accept it politely is a very big problem.
There are plenty of other problems in what you are saying, which Wes did a good job of touching on (might wanna read his post, or re-read it, while you're here ), but I'm stuck on that one...
Then take away the welcome mat. Would you be more tolerant if they were just sitting at airports handing out flowers?
TBN is full of people playing church and begging for money to make themselves rich. There probably is some sincere people on a few shows (John Hagee appears to be) but I don't watch TBN.
having a very difficult time correlating what you said to what i said...
seems to be a pattern there too
Yep, I'll say that again!
However, nobody said anything about having to be mean to anyone. There are more than just two options - be mean, or grin and bear it. Have you ever thought of politely saying "no, thank you. good bye." ?
"Either it's all okay, or none of it is" says Kyle in that particular episode. Can't agree more! What's worse; having a dig at religious issues (fanatical or otherwise) or excusing a bunch of morons and scumbags for maiming and killing fellow citizens and destroying property over a perceived slight, who in-turn excuse their own actions in the name of their religion?
My greatest problem with religion is that "the religious" all seem to think they're the ones that should be untouchable. It smacks of the very hypocrisy and intolerance that these same religions apparently preach against.
I've always found South Park hilarious, if a little close to the knuckle from time to time. It may be because I don't follow any strict religious practices, but it may also be because I have a sense of humour (albeit, somewhat twisted) and I have always thought religion to be a throwback to a less enlightened era of human development.
Just my opinion, but I'm glad I live in a society where religion hasn't over-ruled my right to share it. :P
First, If it takes or uses tax money, no religion.
If it's religious in nature, no taxes. This way religion really has not right to meddle in government.
No door to door solicitations, If the person is interested in your paticular belief, then they will come to you.
No FCC, it is not the government's place to tell you and I what we can and cannot see or hear. If you do not like what is on cable television, then do not A)watch that paticular show/channel or B)don't get cable.
Personal responsibilty is the only thing that should govern what is on TV. Normally networks will cancel show with low ratings. You can voice you opinions about content by simply not watching.
Known Religious figureheads are not allowed to hold public office. period. People like Falwell & Robertson have a widely know religous agenda and therefore would be violating the constitution because they could not keep there religion and politics seperate.
Jade, I sometimes cringe when I realize people like you live in my state. I don't give a rat's ass what you want to believe, but I will not consent and bend over to allow Religious Organizations and Beliefs take control of my State and Nation. There is a good reason why the Founding fathers made sure to seperate church and state. They might have been christian, but that is not a valid excuse to allow the Religious Right to control and dictate what this country sees. In England, the Anglican Church was the state religion. The Founding Fathers added the seperation of Church and State to make sure that the new government could not dictate what you practice. Your Religion is YOUR business, and don't try to push any of your religious beliefs on me.
People like yourself complain about countries such as Iran, where a Ayatollahs control the nations government. You say that it is a evil country because religous extremist control it. How is that any different from allowing our government reference God as a justification of it's acts. For no other reason outside of violating the first amendment, the President and Congress should be removed from their offices.
Ok, Im on a rant, but I cant help it. Onto the Soapbox again...
Another thing, for centuries the only persecution going on was christians harassings others. Everytime I see your topic I get aggravated to no end. Christianity has morphed from the original idea of love thy neighbor and the golden rule to a religion of exclusion and hatred. Yet on the same note I do agree with you jade, I wholeheartedly think christians should be persecuted every once in awhile. If not for the sheer irony, but for the "Up Yours" to show you how it feels to truly be oppressed and have things forced on you that you don't like, but there isnt anything you can do about it.
There I'm done. Sorry for the long rant.
---
I suck at graphics, I suck like a black hole...
Well Patrick.. I am not surprised about your post...In fact that pretty much sums of what most of many posters feel on this asylum regarding religious.
But...Christianity and many religious organizations are here to stay and within the last century they grow larger and more powerful and even affect the choice of politicians we chose. Therefore they will have a say in government. So you may have to just get used to them. With the enormous growth of hispanics in the last century here in the USof A, even more so because 99.9 precent of them are Chrisitians. So why don't you mellow up.
Christianity and many religious organizations are here to stay and within the last century they grow larger and more powerful and even affect the choice of politicians we chose.
Again you show your complete ignorance of history.
The church is less powerful in the modern era than in any previous time.
quote:Again you show your complete ignorance of history.
The church is less powerful in the modern era than in any previous time
I wonder who the real ignorants are. It sure isn't me. The signs are upon you and your not seeing.
Per Dr. Muqtedar Khan a Director of International Studies and Chair, Political Science Department at Adrian College in Michigan:
The rise of political Christianity, a coalition of white born again Christians, conservative Catholics, African Americans and Hispanics, is concerned with more than gay marriages and abortion rights. Political Christianity seeks to breach the wall of separation between the Church and State and wishes to make this country a Christian nation. America has been experiencing nativist Christian resurgence that is both self righteous and ?untraditional?.
It is unwilling to compromise and is uncomfortable with enduring American traditions of religious tolerance, freedom of conscience, fundamental equality of all and appreciation for diversity. This nativism can be heard in the calls for restoring America?s moral values and in political works of scholars such as Sam Huntington who ask, ?Who are we?? or in the fears of Pat Buchanan who declares ?The Death of the West?.
George W. Bush has returned to the White House on these nativist fears. He is probably convinced that God is firmly in his corner and his mission to ?save America? is indeed divine. He is going to charge into battle against dragons overseas and wrestle monsters at home. By George!, America will be born again, pure and Christian.
On November 2nd political Christianity captured the White House, the Senate, the House in Congress and the Supreme Court. Bush is expected to appoint anywhere between 2-4 Supreme Court judges which already enjoys a 5-4 conservative edge. With every branch of the government under control ? effectively neutralizing the much-touted divisions of power in the American constitution ? political Christianity has taken American democracy hostage.
It is time for American Muslims, American Jews, American Hindus and Buddhists, American Christians who are moderate, secular and liberal, to come together to form a moderate and pragmatic center, eschewing the aggressive anti-religiosity of the extreme left, respecting the religiosity of the right, to restore balance, and preserve American democracy and its traditionally balanced relationship with its first institution ? religion.
It's no use trying to reason with Jade. When it comes to people who fear God's wrath if they try to think beyond what they've been taught, all logic is thrown out the window.
Besides, anything we say that doesn't support free control of morality by her and the other closed-minded religious zealots will be seen as persecution, as has already been demonstrated. And people like her love to feel persecuted because it makes them feel like living martyrs for God. The more fuss they make in the name of Jesus, the more they get "put down," and the higher a place they earn in heaven.
Personally, I thank God I was eventually able to see things from more than one side and to realize the only way to preserve my own freedoms was to respect those of others.
Bible pages may be translucent, but you can't see everything through them.
Jade, I will not mellow up, till I see undeniable proof of a god. I will not bow down to the Christian Church and just go with all the sheep. Only a weak person has to use religion or spirituality as a crutch to support themselves. I have religious people in my family and I think they are weak. Religion is not faith, rather it is a means of control.
If you cannot be responsible to yourself first, how can you be responsible to others? I ask you jade, what couldve possibly pushed you to so fervently accept "god?"
*edit*
Also, Jade your nice big quote proves that im right. The religious right want to destroy our constitution. If your cool with that, fine, but of course that is treason in a technical sense. Do you wish to destroy the representative government that has been stable for 219 years(1787-2006) and replace it instead with a Iranian-like Theocratic Republic?
Why is it that people say Christians are closed minded because they won't bend, however the non-believers are the same way. It's always "You see things my way!" "No you see it my way!" "Closed MINDED!" "Closed MINDED!" Sounds silly to me.
Patrick tell me... What politician doesn't have an agenda?
As long as I can retain my right to change the channel, I don't care what Christians choose to put on television. Whether it's "Touched by an Angel", "Joan of Arcadia" or the EWTN channel the fact remains that I don't have to watch. I am not being persecuted because such programming is on tv. I don't howl in agony every time a new God themed show is produced. Christianity is not my cup of tea, but I respect the rights of a large number of Americans to enjoy their religous entertainment. It would be nice if a certain group of Christians shared the same respect and stopped trying to meddle with my entertainment because they don't know how to work the change channel button on their remote.
As a side note - I only bring up these Christian examples because I have yet to see a similar example for Islam, Buddism, Hindu, Wicca, Zoroastrianism or whatever else floats your boat. But if there were, I would still retain my right to change the channel should I choose. I fear the day when I lose that right.
I'm not entirely sure that what I just posted was really relevant to the direction this thread was going. But I'm tired and it was on my mind.
From: Happy Hunting Grounds... Insane since: Mar 2001
posted 05-04-2006 08:09
quote:Why is it that people say Christians are closed minded because they won't bend, however the non-believers are the same way. It's always "You see things my way!" "No you see it my way!" "Closed MINDED!" "Closed MINDED!" Sounds silly to me.
No, it is "keep your beliefs to yourself!" - I don't particularly care what others believe in, as long as they keep it to themselves. If I want to beleive in something, I will seek it out on my own.
I don't need (or want) a State, Government, Institution, etc TELLING me what I have to believe.
Therein lies the difference.
WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles
I know of no politician who doesnt have an agenda. Except for maybe Ron paul (R-tx), my congressman.
Lobbyist bother me the most, they have more influence than any constituency. It's a shame to because it seems a majority of people dont mind and allow for it to continue.
---
I suck at graphics, I suck like a black hole...
It is very important to note the difference. While there are clearly people on both sides who do in fact try to push their beliefs on everyone around them, *for the most part* you will find that people on the religious side of the debate will be the ones agressively pushing for the rest to conform to their beliefs, and pushing for legislation that foreces people to conform to their beliefs.
When you see it from the other side, it is usually not related to that person's specific beliefs, but rather pushing that everyone has different beliefs, and we live in a nation that has specifically designated freedom of (from) religion.
quote:No, it is "keep your beliefs to yourself!" - I don't particularly care what others believe in, as long as they keep it to themselves. If I want to beleive in something, I will seek it out on my own.
I don't need (or want) a State, Government, Institution, etc TELLING me what I have to believe. Therein lies the difference.
No Christian orgainization that I know of forces anyone to believe.. They inform you in the way of evangelizing and they are free to do so. Just like you are free to not listen. Have they physically embeded in your mind like a micro chip or something?
You adhere to your countries politicans when you vote in line with their beliefs.. You are choosing because of some tv ad, mailout, internet info or a poliitical aid called to tell you why to vote for his canidate and you have the freedom to choose, but you could not make a decision unless you seeked or were informed about his/her positions on certain matters. So what is the difference with that and the religious seeking or contacting you in regard to faith matters.
Christianity is "showing who Christ was and is" We can only show this by living it and reflecting it. Words are not as important as example but many are moved by words out of the mouth of those who are his sheep. So TELLING and REVEALING are very important. We follow this way of the Good Shepherd because we know of no othe way. We shephard our children and the children of God to the ways of the Lord
So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs. He saith unto him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; Thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep. He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, Thou knowest all things; Thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep" (John 21:15-17
I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. He who is a hireling and not a shepherd, who own the sheep are not, sees the wolf coming and leaves the sheep and flees; and the wolf snatches them and scatters them. He flees because he is a hireling and cares nothing for the sheep. I am the good shepherd; I know my own and my own know me, as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for the sheep." (John 10:11-15 RSV)
Truly, truly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door but climbs in by another way, that man is a thief and a robber; but he who enters by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. To him the gatekeeper opens; the sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. When he has brought out all his own, he goes before them, and the sheep follow him, for they know his voice. A stranger they will not follow, but they will flee from him, for they do not know the voice of strangers." (John 10:1-5 RSV)
Jade, have you forgotten completely why you started this topic? You intimated that a certain TV show episode should not be allowed to air. You actually said:
quote:Sometimes censorship can be a good thing.
This demonstrates your arrogant belief that your personal views should be forced on anothers -- that you, or a certain group of people, should be allowed to decide what others get to watch or hear.
Jade, have you forgotten completely why you started this topic? You intimated that a certain TV show episode should not be allowed to air. You actually said:
quote:Sometimes censorship can be a good thing.
This demonstrates your arrogant belief that your personal views should be forced on anothers -- that you, or a certain group of people, should be allowed to decide what others get to watch or hear.Get it?>sigh<
And that really sums up everything that needs to be said.
Wild scripture-quoting tangents certainly have nothing to do with it...
That kind of airing is wrong because of what it implies in that it is very hurtful to many persons of faith. It shows arrogance, ridicule, bigotry, calousness and insensivity and hate. This is the opposite of what our Christiain faith is. For you not to see this and you agreeing with the programing only proves my view.
How would you like to see your own flesh and blood father defacting on your mother in public tv that someone caught on air or they having sex for that matter? Or how would you like to see your child being peed on by a male for gratification on air.
Would that hurt you or would you shrug if off and agree with freedom of press, speech and so on.
That kind of airing is wrong...
...and you agreeing with the programing only proves my view.
Who said anything about agreeing with it?
That's the whole point: it is irrelevant whether or not you agree with it! It's not your place to say. it is not for *YOU* to force *YOUR* view of this on everyone else.
*That* is the bottom line. That's all there is to it...
quote: jade said:
How would you like to see...
Irrelevant.
Irrelevant.
Irrelevant.
Who tied you to your chair and forced you to watch this episode?
Oh, that's right...you didn't see it, you simply read a news article about it...
So....explain to me again exactly how this was harmful to you?
It hurts me personally. I am personally hurt and sickend with heartache because I love Jesus the person. He is very dear to me..He is in me. You couldn't possibly understand. I can't expect you to feel what you never have understood your whole life.
I never saw the segment. I read about what was showed in regard to how he was violated in caricature.
From: Happy Hunting Grounds... Insane since: Mar 2001
posted 05-05-2006 08:06
quote:No Christian orgainization that I know of forces anyone to believe.
EVERY xian organization that I know of has forced muliludes to believe in it, even to the point of pain of death. Examine your history.
To this day, there are still attempts by every xian organization and instution to force others to believe in it. From Kindergartens in Germany (where they are privately funded - and most are in the hands of the xian Church, and Religion is force taught) - to many Native people who were forced to give up their beliefs for those of the xian Church. There are many, many other examples.
Jade, first you say
quote:They inform you in the way of evangelizing and they are free to do so. Just like you are free to not listen. Have they physically embeded in your mind like a micro chip or something?
But then you say
quote:That kind of airing is wrong because of what it implies in that it is very hurtful to many persons of faith. It shows arrogance, ridicule, bigotry, calousness and insensivity and hate. This is the opposite of what our Christiain faith is. For you not to see this and you agreeing with the programing only proves my view.
The only thing that it proves (what I have quoted from you) is that you are wrong. If you wish to say that the xian Church is free to evangelize, etc and that others are free not to listen, then it is also true that TV is free to air South Park episodes and that xians are free not to listen.
You stumble over your own words. In fact, you have contradicted yourself. You give the impression that you adamantly believe that the xian Church has some sort of right to force itself on others. That anything to the opposite, any type of criticism or paraody is blasphemous!
Good thing we live in a free country. How would you like to be forced to practice the Moslem religion? And by that, I mean a really streng version of it, like that the Taliban is representive of. [Note : this is not to say that the Moslem religion is in any way, shape, or form better or worse than any other religion, before someone gets the wrong idea].
It would seem to me, that you would not like that. But you wouldn't have a problem with a very streng Catholic belief being forced on everyone, would you?
WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles
Harmful \Harm"ful\ (h[aum]rm"f[.u]l), a.
Full of harm; injurious; hurtful; mischievous. " Most harmful
hazards." --Strype. --Harm"ful*ly, adv. -- Harm"ful*ness,
n.
[1913 Webster]
DL, I see the word "hurtful" here as one of the defintions of harm. I think when Christ was in his passion he suffered greatly and his devoted diciples were wounded and heartbroken to see him suffer as were his mother and many followers in the way he was mistreated. So he continues to be mistreated by unbelievers for what he stands for which is compassion and love. To use him in a segment which ridicules and dishonors him in the most horrible way affect us all who love him. As I have noted before you don't understand because your not a follower. Though we can cry out in protest at the airing of the segment, all we can do is pray for the persons who are doing the deed. Unlike Muslims we do not seek death or push any threats, but to be silent on the issue in the name of Christ our Savior is to be un Christian.
all we can do is pray for the persons who are doing the deed. Unlike Muslims we do not seek death or push any threats
Your short term selective memory is quite interesting.
You aren't simply praying for these people, you are attempting to limit their ability to put forth their ideas and beliefs, ie forcing your beliefs on them.
It is very admirable that you don't wish anyone's death as a result of a silly late-night cartoon , but calling for the forced banning of such expression follows the same mentality as those who call for the death of people with who express those thoughts.
This is what you need to understand Jade: it is not a matter of me not being able to understand *what* you are saying. It's a matter of getting you to think critically about what you are saying...
Jade - There are worse things happening in the world today than having the center of your religion mocked. So your beliefs, feelings, convictions, whatever were hurt by the theme of this show. So what? A few years back, a couple of radio hosts were mocking the religion and beliefs I held dear at the time. It made me angry, I felt personally insulted. I felt indignation on behalf of my fellow believers. I was especially angry because the event they were mocking was akin to a Christian prayer vigil - something that the practitioners were only doing to benefit the community. I even called the station to complain that what they were saying only showed ignorance of the subject. I wanted them to take it back and apologize. But you know what? Eventually I figured out that 1) they were exercising their right to free speech, 2) that despite my initial reaction to their comments, I was personally unharmed and my beliefs were still as strong as they had been - I had made the choice to be angry, 3) the religion itself was still intact and free to practice as usual. In fact - I eventually recognized that they were not truly mocking the religion, but the stereotype - the basis of almost all comedy. My point of this is: It was only hurtful because I allowed it to be.
We live in a country where freedom of/from religion matters, jade. If you ever sat down and watched South Park, you would understand that absolutely nothing is sacred on that show. It's one of the things I love most about it. No one is free from ridicule - they are an equal opportunity offender. Because of this - i think it is one of the most honest commentaries on how ridiculous our society can be.
As I mentioned before; pick your battles. You have made the choice to be offended on behalf of your religion. There are many other activities that you could be devoting your energies to rather than calling for the censorship of a show you don't even watch.
quote:We live in a country where freedom of/from religion matters, jade. If you ever sat down and watched South Park, you would understand that absolutely nothing is sacred on that show. It's one of the things I love most about it. No one is free from ridicule - they are an equal opportunity offender. Because of this - i think it is one of the most honest commentaries on how ridiculous our society can be.
I'll second that.
We all need to be a little more offensive and a lot less sensitive. I personally try to offend at least one person every day, just to keep in practice.
Jade, after reading through this thread, my sincere advice to you would be to learn to think for yourself. You may be under the impression that you are thinking independently, as I once thought not too long ago, but you are not. You are anchored. Anchored to a lifetime of forcefed propaganda and preconceptions, not just religious, but societal. Let it go.
Trust me, it is the best thing you could ever do, and doing so does not invalidate your faith in God. It will allow you to think outside the confines of your programming and will lead you down a path of discovery & personal growth you once thought impossible. Discovery and personal growth are not sin in the Catholic mandate are they?
You may not have any idea what I am talking about, but, God willing, perhaps you will... one day.
And for the record, DL.. I have told you before that I can voice and stand out for the unborn and petition and protest their innocence and can only pray for those who do such a terrible horrendous murder. I cannot go and forcibly make anyone stop aborting. Prayer is more powerful than any other action. So I continue to do so and voice my opinion as well and this opionion in no way can be comparered to the visual ridicule that is infliction on the memory of your beloved Christ.
I pray my teapot every day for the crazy nuts realize that the Da Vinci Code is a novel. Alas the means of the teapot are mysterious and it doesn't seem to hear me
I will say the irony is quite amusing that when being accused of not being able to think for yourself your response is to tell us you're not the only one who thinks the way you do...
And uh....what the hell does the davinci code have to do with anything?
In spite of everything I learnt about physics, I didn't know prayer [was] more powerful than any other action... Oh Jade, I feel completely outdated now. I guess in a few years we can expect all our cars to be powered by prayers ?
Come on Jade, any sane person who would have been proven wrong as many times as you were in this thread would reconsider his/her beliefs... You just don't. You call that 'faith', I call that plain stupidity...
Its been proven when one resorts to name calling like "stupidity" it reveals their character.
DL I was trying to get you to view that a moral consciences dictactes we care for others as well as ourselves in that we are not selfish. The church is speaking out against the movie coming out saying that it will offend many Christians and I am saying the same thing about airing a segment that offends another.. If we were a more caring nation we would not do or say things to offend and hurt each other as humans just to get a laugh. We would consider anothers beliefs and feelings. This is Christianity in its fullness.
From: Rochester, New York, USA Insane since: May 2000
posted 05-08-2006 19:56
He did not call a person *stupidity* he called an action *stupidity* this is not name calling. But it was a nice attempt to dodge that bullet. Now I see what WS means when he refers to your dodging and weaving.
I am going to resort to name calling however. I will call you Teflon Jade. Thow all you want at her and none of it sticks.
Is it suppose to stick? Anyway I kinda like "Teflon Jade"
I would like to think of a army shielding me. Like St. Michael
and all his armor and of angels..
Jade - yes, you've said that several times so far. But you still aren't addressing any of the points raised, or grasping any of the things being said to you here.
The one thing I will repeat: the episode in question, and the show in general, does not set out to hurt people just for a laugh. What it does is make a point, most often using some very unreserved approach. When you react with offense you miss the point completely.
As was said above: YOU choose to allow such material to be offensive to you. That's YOUR issue.
As for the da vinci code: offensive?
This opens up a whole new arena of idiocy if feel this book and this movie to be offensive. Disagree with it? Great. Feel the need to point out Brown's multitude of historical inaccuracies? Even better.
Take offense at it? Truly baffling. If you have the strong faith you claim, you would do no more that roll your eyes...
If your faith can be offended and harmed by a cartoon and a novel, you have some serious issues to deal with in your "faith"
From: The Land of one Headlight on. Insane since: May 2001
posted 05-09-2006 18:13
DL- Thank you for that ^ because when I read it (link) earlier I reached the same conclusion and couldn't for the life of me figure out why someone would post something that so clearly undermines their position.
I think the only way to get out of it what Jade seems to is; apply the Da Vinci code to the article during a full moon while Poi pours 'something' from his Teapot. This must take place in an isolated field of course and Poi must be naked. =)
Just sending these sites to show how Christianized the World is becomming in regard to spirituality.
Though many of you are not Chrisitan, you have to see its a force that of its own that even without evangilization cannot be contained or conquered.
On another note:
Recently, though I was skeptical regarding out of body experinces, I have had one.. it was in the
dawn before waking up that I felt myself moving out of my body and felt my spirit next to myself. It was such
a weird feeling leaving my body. It was my spirit I know and I was not afraid. I felt peacefull with it.
I have been telling everybody about it since it was so real and profound.
When I told my friend of this experience she had one as well about 10 years ago. While she was
asleep with her husband, she felt herself get out of bed and could see herself leaving and saw herself
going. She looked back and saw herself asleep and then preceeded to leave but she was enveloped
in someones arms and she didn't experience real fear but could not look up at its face but saw feet
next to hers. She proceeded to go thur walls with this entity as if floating and then came back to her body in
bed... I do believe and she believes as well that it was her guardian angel who was
with her.
Also since then.. I have had visions where in the mist of conversations, I can see something happening without
control. It controls when it comes. One was while conversing with my friends and my kitchen bar
I saw 6 men in white as if they were naval outfits all looking the same and they were carrying a huge
mahogany coffin in unisence and they all had the same faces and were smiling. It was so weird and
then it was gone. The next one was as if I was in a crowded bus station and I was going towards some
one who looked very happy to see me as if he were there to meet me. I can still remember his face
features, and his stature and where he standing in front of a pole.
Another one I had I saw fire burining and a cross appeared in front of the flames. As I am having these
visions more often, my friend and I have contacted a person who is familiar and knowlegable in OBEs,
etc..We are suppose to meet he in regard to education about why...This person told my friend that we
are being sent these experiences for a reason and that by educating ourselves about them we
will strengthen our knowledge to understand why and what the visions mean. Sort of like an antenna,
when you position it better you will get a better connection. And this would require certain excersises
to fine tune ourselves in being receptive to other visions. It is just so weird.
May be topic for another thread but I was wondering if anyone as well could share if they have had one too.
You really have no train of thought, do you, jade?
And by the way, from your own link:
quote:About two percent of India's 1.1 billion people are Christians.
Yeah, I'd say the world is practically one big Bible study. Only 1,078,000,000 to go!
quote:78 percent of Americans believe guardian angels exist
One, America is not the world, as has been pointed out to you. Two, believing in guardian angels is no indication of Christian faith. There are millions who believe in "heaven" who have never considered themselves "Christian." Like angels, it's just a comforting thought they grew up with.
And you need to learn real fast that just because a lot of people believe something, that doesn't make it right or true.
It's not often that I disagree with you, Wes - and I have to admit, this is not one of those times.
Jade, it is amazing how many children actually believe (or have believed) in tooth fairies and Santa... the difference being that one day, when they were old and wise enough to figure it out anyway, somebody stopped pulling the wool over their eyes.
I read through most of this post, skimmed through the parts I've heard so many times before...
What's interesting is:
People tend to hurl themself with all their power against what they think is not correct according to their teachings, trying to rip it to shreds and remove every evidence of it ever existing.
Why? Only very few things can trigger such an emotional reaction. The most likely one seems to be fear.
Fear of being proven wrong, riddiculed because they've known something for so long and it turns out to
be utterly wrong.
Haven't you ever misunderstood something, and then long after realized what you knew was completely nonsense? I bet it made you extremely angry at first. You have been living your life in perfect harmony with what you knew until one day it was shattered, everything turned upside down and you had to reavaluate lots of your related knowledge.
We fear being wrong, which makes us believe what we have been taught even more until we know it to be true since we've found somehting supporting the belief. Until somebody finds the pillar holding it all up, and tips it over.
Here's where doubt comes in. If you doubt what you know, only believe it.
Belief is not knowledge.
Be careful when knowing what you believe.
Doubting beliefs doesn't hurt half as much as doubting knowledge.
Each and every religion in the world, in some way, says they know their beliefs to be true.
I say, it's still beliefs, thinking you know it doesn't make it more true!
People will only get irritated if a believer keeps repeating he knows his beliefs are true whey they themselves don't believe. If the believers were satisfied with believing, we'd not have half the troubles caused by religion today because they would be generally more accepted.
If you believe in x, it's fine by me as long as you don't say you know x to be true, for then you're automatically in conflict with other peoples beliefs and knowledge.
My point is:
Okay if you offer to put forward your beliefs and the related arguments, I have nothing against that, but there's a reason to why it's called belief in the first place.
Hmm, I think I lost my track somewhere, oh well... might as well stop talking and let someone else wear the cozy tight jacket with long arms and sit on the center chair...
Btw, go watch that episode of SouthPark, it does have a point, as has been noted before in this thread.
I dont mean to prop up a dead horse just to be beaten again, but I read my comments from a while back, and I a bit like a twit. Anyway, I just want to say Christianity is a cult. A Jewish Cult that beilieved that one paticular Jew was the son of their "god." Now how does that differ from any other messianic cult? And just because Christianity has been around for 2,000 years is not a bases for truth, Judiaism, Hinduism, Druidism, & plain ol Baalism has been around for longer.
But there is so much eveidence out there abt the world having been designed by a designer from a scientific perception...n..if truly have an open mind..i dont know y one would say there is no God..and if there is a God then Christ exists...which these then translates to Christians...
I truly blv pple argue just 4 the sake...and if we could see someones Heart ..there are only two options..Good or Evil...n most the people fall in the latter...
Who out there does something Evil and they r not away of it..can some define a clear consciousness 4 me
Everyone has a right 2 choose wat 2 blv.....But there is so much eveidence out there abt the world having been designed by a designer from a scientific perception...
I would be extremely interested in any such valid scientific information that you have. I have certainly not come across any in all of my searching. I have seen plenty of half-ass information based on pseudo-science and just plain ignorance of science.
But I have not seen any actual scientific evidence. Please do let us know what you see as real evidence.
quote: binary said:
n..if truly have an open mind..i dont know y one would say there is no God..
Because there is absolutely nothing to support the idea of there being a god, or gods.
Plain and simple.
Might we someday have some sort of evidence that there is? Perhaps. It is most highyl doubtful, but perhaps. When such a day comes, my opinion will change to reflect the evidence we have.
quote: binary said:
and if there is a God then Christ exists...
Well *that* is a huge and unexplainable leap in logic!!!
quote: binary said:
and if we could see someones Heart ..there are only two options..Good or Evil...
I couldn't disagree more strongly. The shades of grey are so much more pervasive than the black or white.
WebShaman and DL-44....so wat do you guys believe in....i would really like to hear you explain..things like..where did we come from...n dont give me that Big Bang theory...Darwins theory...coz we could also categorize them as cults too....
My only concern is that..if ur parents...were like lets say Muslims... or..Hindus ..dont u think this might have influnced ur faith...why do u blv in whatever u blv in...u might say its by choice..But is it really...
Assume a parent decides not to influece a child beliefs....and then the another does influence..do u think the first parent has given the child a choice..NO i dont think so becoz either the child turns out ..to be like WS and DL..who are members of the same cult
Sorry, I could have sworn you said you were talking about scientific information up above.
Darwin's "theory" has, in large part, been proven to be correct. Evolution happens. It can be observed, measured, and documented.
The big bang, while a somewhat less provable theory, has a great deal of scientific evidence to support it.
You mentioned in your previous post that there was scientific evidence for a designer. Your link offered none.
I won't take the time to go through all of the evidence for evolution, the big bang, or against 'intelligent design'. We've been through it over and over. These FAQ entries contain a lot of our previous conversations on the subject: http://www.ozoneasylum.com/27026 http://www.ozoneasylum.com/24877
By the way, binary, Carl Baugh is a certifiable nut. Even his fellow creation "scientists" believe he's a loon. They generally distance themselves fom him because he will persist in presenting "evidence" that has been effectively deemed irrelevant even by them. His so-called experiments never even use a control. I mean, really. Two of his most prized specimens are a rock that looks like a finger and a rock shaped like a boot. (If it looks like a finger, it must be a fossilized finger!)
I wish I had a transcript of some of his "lessons." No progression of logic, just a lengthy, rambling discourse full of jargon that leaps from subject to subject with no conclusions whatsoever. To anyone looking to justify their creation beliefs, I'm sure he sounds full of solid evidence, but to anyone actually trying to understand his point, he's just an old man in a porch swing.
Just for fun, here's the story I wrote on Baugh and his Creation Evidence Museum for Weird Texas:
quote: The Creation Evidence Museum By Wesley Treat
From the Book "Weird Texas"
(Not Reproducible Without Permission)
Tired of the establishment convincing your children of its distorted view of man's origin? Afraid a trip to the museum of science and history might irrevocably pollute their minds with Darwinism? Well, fear not, creationists. You have a choice!
Only an hour outside Fort Worth, right next door to Dinosaur Valley State Park and its blasphemous rock strata, the Creation Evidence Museum presents a godly alternative. Housed in a humble, tan trailer, it showcases the lifework of Rev. Dr. Carl Baugh, champion of "creation science."
Dr. Baugh ? who, incidentally, appears to have received his Ph.D. through a branch of his own unaccredited religious school ? has for years argued in favor of a Biblical model of the world's development. To support his case, he cites evidence of giant men who roamed the planet before the Flood, supposed experiments showing that eggs can't hatch outside Earth's magnetic field, and first-hand accounts of glow-in-the-dark pterodactyls flying over New Guinea. He opened the CEM in 1984 so that humanity may bear witness to his theories.
By way of videocassette, Dr. Baugh himself guides visitors through the museum, sharing his breakthrough artifacts: the iron cup encrusted in coal, the stone-encased hammer and the rock that looks amazingly like a fossilized human finger. The real ones aren't on display, of course; those are in safety deposit. But you can purchase replicas for $25.
Additionally, there's the famed Burdick Track, a 14-inch-long, cartoonish footprint preserved in stone, which supports Baugh's assertion that pre-Flood man grew to gargantuan size due to the oxygen-rich, high-pressure atmosphere.
He also presents a device in which he recreated such an environment for experimentation. In his antediluvian hyperbaric biosphere, he has subjected fruit flies and venomous snakes to increased atmospheric pressure, oxygen, carbon dioxide and electromagnetic radiation, which he says tripled the life of the flies and turned the serpents' poison non-toxic. The EM field, he says, also unexpectedly affected the fish in an adjacent aquarium, influencing their cellular mitosis and "cellular preservation."
A 62-foot version of the biosphere is under construction in a facility next door. Reportedly, Baugh at one time figured that if increased O2 were good, then O3 would be even better, and he planned to live in the tube and secure a physiological advantage for himself. Apparently, someone informed the doctor that breathing pure ozone would kill him and he abandoned the experiment. Similar tests are still planned for lesser creatures.
Baugh spends the rest of the tape explaining his version of a six-day genesis. Here, his sales pitch kicks into high gear with a well-rehearsed patter, articulating his theories with an almost poetic scientific idiom. He speaks of a geocentric stretching of the fabric of space and its resultant time dilation, and of a firmamental canopy of metallic hydrogen that previously assimilated short-wave radiation, kept the electromagnetic field charged and admitted long-wave spectral radiation, "bathing the globe with benefits."
It's all very convincing as long as you don't try to understand what he's talking about, like watching a commercial that extols its product for having chondroitin or retsin, while saving you the hassle of knowing what they do. By the end, you're ready to cry out, "How could I have been so blind?" until you realize you still have no idea what "polonium haloes" are nor the slightest notion what their presence in granite has to do with natural selection.
You may as well buy it, though, because, "In the evolutionary model, everything ends in despair," the good doctor concludes. "But!" he exclaims, "In the creation model, there is promise for hope."
Wes...why would go to such extremes trying to defame Carl....are you trying to fight something within U Carl and Wes..may actually be diffrent sides of the same coin..but its still one coin
So did the OzoneAsylum evolve.... or was there a Big Bang in cyberspace and whoolaaaa...there it was
DL-44:- I must say ...i have a feeling you..have done plenty of research on this issue...keep on searching....but you may be suprised the answers you looking for are right infront of you...
posted 04-14-2006 19:47
was going to let that go, Tao
::cell::
I'll pray my 
