From: buttcrack of the midwest Insane since: Oct 2000
posted 05-02-2006 09:25
From the Omaha World Herald, May 2, 2006 :
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SAUDI RELIEF : Gas now $.60
RIYDH, Saudia Arabia (AP)
With gas prices at historic highs in the United States and some other Western countries, Saudi King Abdullah on Sunday lowered prices about 25%.
The decrease will reach 30% by year`s end, according to a government statement.
The drop in prices means Saudis now pay 60 hahalahs per liter of regular gasoline. The price of super unleaded drops to about $.76 a gallon. There are 100 halalahs in the Saudi riyal, which is worth about 26 U.S. cents.
The statement said the king issued the decree to ease the "cost of living burden on Saudi citizens."
The price of a gallon of regular gasoline in the U.S. now tops $3 in some regions.
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Unless I miss something, I'd say nothing in particular. The cost of life is not the same on every spot of the planet. You complain about the price of gas toping $3 per gallon. IIRC the last time I checked in France it was more like $5 per gallon. And the Saudi King Abdullah has the power to decrease the price of gas for his people, why shouldn't he do that ?
From: buttcrack of the midwest Insane since: Oct 2000
posted 05-02-2006 11:30
One of the things wrong with this picture is that many of the Saudi sheiks make upwards of $6,000,000 a day off of those $3-5/gal prices. While many people can barely afford to drive to work.
If they can afford .60/gal at home, they can afford in elsewhere as well.
I totally agree poi.
Better get used to it DB. The USA has always had considerably cheaper petrol than the UK as far back as I can remember. The price of petrol here is about £1.00 a Litre, yes, they measure it in litres here to lessen the impact.
To take the long view, which is what we all should be doing on this matter, oil is a limited resource that soon will not be economical to suck out of the ground. We need desperately to find better ways of using and conserving the resources we have on this planet.
Here is a sobering thought for you.
I heard Tony Wedgewood-Benn say in an excellent open discussion, aired on the BBC last month.
quote:If we were to raise the living standards of everyone on the planet to the same standards of the average person in the USA today, we would need the resources of more than TEN planet Earths
The applause was deafening.
Now I doubt if that is a scientifically proven fact, but I am sure there is a lot of truth in the statement, not least in the perceptions of the people in general
It is time the "developed" industrialised world WOKE UP to the realitiies of the impact it is having on the rest of the world.
Phew, nearly went into rant mode then. Time for a nice cup of tea.
Poi and Tao are absolutely right, with what they've said, what they didn't mention is that most of the cost of petrol (gasoline) is from tax that our governments have put on it to make themselves richer, forget about the Sheiks, they're just making business from something on their land. it's or own governmetns that are ripping us off.
Here are some intersting articles from a European point of view...
From: The Land of one Headlight on. Insane since: May 2001
posted 05-02-2006 13:06
Here on the west coast of Canada, gas is running at $1.15 a litre. Various taxes make up a substantial portion of that. It certainly is a piss off, to put it mildly, but I don't think we're anywhere near the end of it.
I used to half jokingly say american politicians figured out a long time ago that everything will be just fine.. 'if you keep'em drunk and driving.' Well, given the price of gas, I figure the next US revolution will get underway in earnest when the price of beer starts increasing. =)
Yup - we pay approx. £1 per litre in the UK. A friend of mine recently visited Dubai and was flabberghasted at the low price for petrol there; not to mention the quality - he said there was no such thing as cheapo-grade. Of course, you don't pay tax on your earnings out there either, so being a motor maniac, he's considering heading out there for an IT job and living a life of luxury.
forget about the Sheiks, they're just making business from something on their land. it's or own governmetns that are ripping us off.
That's the bottom line. The profit being made in the US on high gas prices is what pisses me off. The phony posturing of the president in his press conferences about price gouging is getting pretty old...
From: Happy Hunting Grounds... Insane since: Mar 2001
posted 05-02-2006 16:18
Yes, Half of us didn't (I sure the hell didn't). But they re-elected him again. And since the 70's, we have been made very aware of how vulnerable America is because of Oil dependency. We should have been pressuring government and Car Manufactorer's to develope alternative energies and technologies.
Well, we didn't.
Believe me, $3.00 a gallon is just the beginning.
WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles
Sweden has the same problem as UK and most other europeean countries.
The actual price per litre here is appr $1.50 or about $6 per gallon.
Of this is about 70-80% different taxes, energy tax, enviroment tax, sales tax etc, all added one by one... that is they actually take the saleprice, add salestax of 25% on that, then on the sum you add the next tax percentage and so on...
No wonder it skyrockets!
The actual gasstation needs to charge about $0.30 per litre, then it's $1.20 added in taxes...
(yes this is times 3.8 for gallons...) So actually, the gas stations doesn't really make a lot of money from gas, they make money from all the rest they sell.
The government is making money though, a shitload of it!
<rant-mode-on>
Just to hammer the point in further, here in sweden the average working joe is taxed between 67 and 75% of his total yearly income when all taxes are included.
First the company pays 32-38% of the total salary in employer-tax (this money you never see, it's a cost for the employer that comes right from your salary), then an additional 31-32% in income-tax.
Then an extra 5% in state income tax if you are over a certain threshold.
All this is automatically deducted before you get you hands on your salary.
Then, after all this you pay 25% sales tax on everything you buy, certain things like gas and electricity has enviromental and energy taxes on top of that.
If you by any chance manage to buy a house for your taxed money, you are taxed in advance a yearly property tax based on what you might get if you sell the house (to be paid with taxed money of course). however, should you sell the house you must pay taxes on your profit. The value of you house is also included in your net worth which you are taxed for. Your car will cost you a yearly vehicletax based on size and engine volume.
Lo and behold, you managed to save money... Fine, lets add tax on the interest the money makes for you, plus a "capital tax" of 30%
So, you lived your life and you want to leae your house to your kids as you move to a retirement home, now they has to pay an inheritance tax, if they can't afford it they will probably have to sell the house you gave them...
And the list goes on, and on, and on...
And don't even start me up on if you want to trade stocks... That's when it get's complicated... So complicated that they actually had to change the tax rules for trading since some ppl actually had to pay 120% in taxes on their stock sales...
If I want to start a company I have to pay appr 75% in taxes on each earned $ before I can start paying expenses and take a salary from the company (simply put that is)...
I probably forgot a bunch of examples but I think this is enough to illustrate the point.
Now, what do we get for all these taxes...
- A yearly national debt of appr $150 billion (and we are only 9.000.000 citizens)
- An immense amount of money paid from the government to citisens that are unemployed, long term sick, state pensions. Generally to ppl that can't afford to pay for everything themselves (wonder why)...
- Roads that has been free will be taxed
- Hospital care, if you are healthy enough to wait for many months you can get any disese treated virtually for free (this is actually very good hospitals) otherwise you have to pay for your own care.
- Downsized police force
- Firedepartments
- a 20% unemployment rate for 18-25 years old, 8-10% for all depending on how you count.
- Small and mediunm
- Large vital companies moving to other countries
and the list goes on...
<rant-mode-off>
Now I don't really have a problem with paying taxes in general, but there has to be reason involved when you setup the system behnd it. The way this system is setup we might just as well give the government everything and get food & rent tickets in return...
As you see, gas prices aren't the biggest problem here even if it's stupidly expensive.
I firmly believe that there is an underlying structural problem generally in europe whern it comes to how a country should be financed.
/Dan
{cell 260}{Blog}
-{" Computer:
?As a Quantum Supercomputer I take advantage of Zeno?s paradox?
C: ?Imagine a photon that must travel from A to B. The photon travels half the distance to B. From its new location it travels half the new distance. And again, it travels half that new distance.?
C: ?It continually works to get to B but it never arrives.?
Human: ?So you keep getting closer to finishing your task but never actually do??
C: ?Hey, coders make a living doing that??
?}-
Over here it was up over 13SEK/Litre not long ago, that's about US$6.7/Gallon or ?1.4/Litre if I got all the conversions right. (95 octane, unleaded.)
About 70% of that is tax... actually, it's even tax on the tax.
Now it's down to about 10.5 SEK/Litre though.
Around here you can't make it without a car. We don't have public transportation in my area. Some cities do but I live in a less populated part of the country. I can drive anywhere from 5 to 30 miles one way for my job. That's not very far, I have drove over 100 round trip a day. I am seriously considering a motorcycle. For myself it will be find, but with a wife and kids I'll still need the car.
Nobody likes taxes except for government. What pisses me off is that I do pay taxes and it goes to someone that won't work. I know there is a need for welfare, but the system is flawed and will cost money to fix it. I think it would be better if capable people on welfare were given jobs in the community. Like having them clean the streets or working with charity groups like habitat for humanity. I'm sure something could be worked out so that people that do need it would get it but hinder people who want a free ride from tagging along. There's probably a reason my idea won't work, but something does need to be done and quick.
From: buttcrack of the midwest Insane since: Oct 2000
posted 05-04-2006 07:22
quote:I have no sympathy for Americans...
I wasn`t soliciting your sympathy. It`s the global price gouging that gets to me. When is enough enough ?
quote:...that have never done anything to change the incredible consumption of Oil in the USA
As for that, The car I`m driving (there is no public transportation here) it`s over twice as efficient as the one I drove 25 years ago, and I`ve rearranged my life so that I only drive it 25% as far. Until that Work At Home job comes around, it`s as good as it`s likely to get. SO, please be careful where you point that hoity-toity finger.
From: Happy Hunting Grounds... Insane since: Mar 2001
posted 05-04-2006 08:05
I understand where you are coming from, DB. But obviously, enough Americans didn't demand something different, nor did enough of them scream and kick for Oil independency.
As such, the present woes are really our own fault.
Prices wouldn't have shot up, if we hadn't of created a mess in the ME. That is one area where one doesn't want instability, when one is "addicted" to Oil (as we have found out).
Of course, the prices were bound to rise - the easy-to-reach Oil is not limitless. Oil is like any other commodity - the Price is connected to the Demand vs the Supply - and what the market will bear.
If it helps, it makes me angry as well. I pay much more than you do per gallon over here in Germany.
WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles
I guess I would seem like an E.T. to some people, but I'm 28 and never passed my driver's licence. The reason is : I just never needed to drive. There's always been enough public transpotations ( bus, trams, subway, trains, bikes, ... ) in the cities I lived in. In France I've never seen a city with more than ~10,000 people NOT having a public transportation system.
Maybe if I had some children I would consider passing my driver's licence but I've seen a few people doing well with children and without a car.
I didn't drive for the first eight years that I lived here in Korea. Then I moved down here to the sticks, where the only bus comes once every two hours. When we first moved here, that bus didn't even exist. You had to walk 30-40 minutes just to get to the nearest bus. We got a car out of necessity, but we only drive it to the nearest subway station and back (and to church on Sunday, since there is no practical way to take public transportation there). But we still pay the equivalent of $1.70 a liter (which comes out to nearly $6.50 a gallon), and every time we go to the gas station (maybe once every week and a half to two weeks) the price has jumped another twenty won (two cents) or so. Sometimes the prices go down, but most of the time they go up. It's like taking two steps forward and one step back.
I miss the days when I could rely completely on public transportation. And I envy you guys in the States who get such cheap fuel.
Driving a vehicle that gets 14mph and I am still comfortable with the current gas prices. I am always amazed that people seem transfixed by the idea that the internal combustion engine is the antagonist in the energy debate. Try to look at the problem as units of resources consumed. If I buy a new car thats about 20,000 gallons of water gone, unknown ammounts of oil for internal plastics, wire sheathing, airbags, hours of electricity consumed in design and manufacture, fuel costs in transit of resources and finished product, etc.
I comfortably drive a vehicle that is older than I am, ( its 36 this year ) the resources consumed to create it were spent before I existed, I maintin it from various wrecking yards and of course...ebay, and when people at the gas station grimace and groan, I laugh.
When it gets too bad...i'll go strip a 4-cyl diesel out of an old UPS truck and go bio. Its comforting to drive a vehicle that I can disassemble into its respective parts and re-assemble with hand-tools.
For now, the smiles per gallon are worth it.
Now stop buying shit...I have to go watch road warrrior and clean my guns.
From: there...no..there..... Insane since: May 2001
posted 05-09-2006 00:51
To quote one of my favorite movies "Who is the bigger fool? The fool or the fool who follow him?" What I mean by that is that someone sent me an email once stating that the US has enough oil here in the states to supply fuel. (I could be wrong about that but that is what I have read and been told numerous times). So, why do we buy oil from other countries? I can't get my head wrapped around the thought that it is cheaper for the US to get oil from other countries.
The price gouging comes from our own goverment though for the most part. Over 45% of the price for a gallon of gas is tax! Who's gouging who? Hell if they just lowered the tax on gas it would only be about $1.50 here.
I'm just thankful I have a company car. If I didn't I'm not sure I'd be able to make ends even come close together much less meet.
What I mean by that is that someone sent me an email once stating that the US has enough oil here in the states to supply fuel.
From my understanding, this is a drastic overstatement.
If we were to open up drilling in all of the off-shore spots and throughout the Alaskan wilderness, we would temporarily have a surge in domestic supply that would help us be more self sufficient for a short time.
It would not come close to solving the problem - at best it would buy us a few more years of prolonged agony.
We need lowered gas taxes, and more than anything we need alternate fuel sources NOW. Period.
edit - on the way to work this morning I was listening to an interview with...someone I can't recall, somehow related to the oil industry
According to him, approximately 12 supertankers roll into US ports every day. That's about 12,000,000 barrels worth of oil imported, every day (out of the approximately 20,000,000 barrels used in the US every day).
From: there...no..there..... Insane since: May 2001
posted 05-11-2006 17:07
quote: DL-44 said:
From my understanding, this is a drastic overstatement.
I kind of figured that. Can't beleive everything you read We do consume a lot...of everything really. I think it is pretty much a fact that we have to find a new source of energy. Eventually, it will all just run dry. We certainly use more than what can be made.
posted 05-02-2006 09:25
::cell::
