I think you've highlighted a common problem, DL. It seems all too easy to confuse the evidence of a common ancestor with the mistaken notion that man evolved directly from apes, but whether common ancestry can be proved beyond a doubt isn't really the point anyway.
That evolution occurs is an observable fact. Genetic commonalities are a fact. Where the confusion begins (for some) is the point at which science becomes theory. That we have a common ancestor is theory based upon observable facts and empirical evidence; it is scientific theory.
Creationism is a theory (as is FSM) but it simply isn't scientific. This is the crux of the debate for me, and everything else is hot air.
quote:AUSTIN ? Biology professors from across Texas stressed the importance of educating students about evolution in a letter to the state education commissioner and said Texas Education Agency employees shouldn't be required to stay neutral on the subject.
More than 100 faculty members from the universities of Texas, Texas A&M, Texas Tech, Texas State, North Texas, Houston, Rice and Baylor signed the letter. It was sent Monday to Texas Education Commissioner Robert Scott.
I think that, to date, evolution is the best theory we have as to the origins/development of life on earth. I don't believe that intelligent design should be taught in school because it a) does not answer the question of how life arose or developed, and b)having a creationist curriculum will discourage questioning and scientific exploration.
Evolution doesn't even know it has a name, and it doesn't care if you defend it or not.
But i guess Memes can be as Selfish as the Selfish Genes.
It really requires a indepth knowledge of all the fields of biology (and basis to them) to be able to actively participate in this debate.
It's not something you can actively discuss, without cutting your mind and heart open through a few dozens of technical books.
Because there really isn't anything to discuss, unless you have read those technical books, digested their content, and still think there is room for something like ID.
When Science today, is affected by public opinion, that's when you fanboys are useful. As you always were, with whatever you were defending (religion, nationalism, politics, etc).
From: Happy Hunting Grounds... Insane since: Mar 2001
posted 12-28-2007 10:05
*slams a rock on top of Arthemis*
Have fun reading those technical books and digesting their content under your rock
And for the record, I have an indepth knowledge of all the fields of Biology (though an indepth knowledge of ALL the fields of Biology is NOT necessary to have to discuss the Theory of Evolution, obviously - another of your transparent trolling attempts).
quote:What happened? You can start with the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
The satirical religious Web site asserts that an omnipotent, airborne clump of spaghetti intelligently designed all life with the deft touch of its "noodly appendage." Adherents call themselves Pastafarians. They deluged Polk school board members with e-mail demanding equal time for Flying Spaghetti Monsterism's version of intelligent design.
"They've made us the laughingstock of the world," said Margaret Lofton, a school board member who supports intelligent design. She dismissed the e-mail as ridiculous and insulting.
That just tickles me pink!
WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles
Hu-uh. Look hun, again, i never said i am part of the pro-ID movement. I like the idea. It's preety nifty. But i don't like the christian bandwagon that it is currently carrying.
Two posts above, I said one has nothing new to add to this debate, unless one is studied, and can provide evidence for the ID theory, against or according the Evolution theory (which currently reigns as the sole default).
I wasn't talking to you in particular WebShaman, but since you mention it: i really doubt you know your stuff, since you don't even know your biology ABCs, and have this stoic perception of what the experimental method is, as i noted previously.
I could go on and ask for your credentials now. But bullocks to credentials, i say.
Bah, this is futile. You're not going to change my mind, i can't change yours. Nothing like a face to face fast exchanging debate.
i never said i am part of the pro-ID movement. I like the idea. It's preety nifty.
Ok - what about it do you like?
why?
Do you actually find it to be valid scientifically, or do you just like the philosophical implications? (this is the only really important part of the "debate" in the first place...)
For my part, I've not too averse to the philosophical implications - leads to some interesting debate on the matter, in the right company - but there is no question that ID simply isn't scientific. How could anybody argue otherwise?
ID should be restricted to philosophy/theology - if such a thing were part of the curriculum.
Well, I see two issues : one of the AWESOME implied political impact of this decision. Common sense has not left America, and it must ring
"pride" inside sincere patriotic minds. They're in line with their beliefs, and thank God, their children won't have to learn "ID".
Respect.
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I didn't read the whole thing, but I see Arthemis has a point, and (hope she) plays the "challenge the minds around" game Devil's advocate.
She does have a point though : philosophical (hence the title of the forum ,)
AND scientific : does the fact "ID could be" negate the fact "evolution happened"?
Do they really negate each other?
Respect for that too. She may be in line with her belief that a real man can take a challenge.
And she may be in line with her scientific beliefs as well - she sounds like someone who is inclined on facts as well.
---------------------------------
...If pulled off from a frame of "regular controversy", acting this way may raise tension in other parties - a natural reaction for most including me.
*grabs some popcorn and ponders the way he just challenged the minds around with a sly smile on his face, still...*
(of course I could have got it all wrong and Arthemis could be defending ID for Christ's sake,
in which case I'd go get the tar and feathers myself)
Fact is, world society is finally accommodating to the evolution theory (after a few initial bumps with Nazism, the Holocaust, Wild Capitalism and all that other stuff done in name of Evolution) and refuse to let it be confronted - i'm not even talking about change.
As for me being defending ID for Christ's sake...
i do wish i had the memory of billions of years passed, right here inside my head. I dont have faith, but i dont deny it.
From: Happy Hunting Grounds... Insane since: Mar 2001
posted 01-09-2008 09:38
quote:Fact is, world society is finally accommodating to the evolution theory (after a few initial bumps with Nazism, the Holocaust, Wild Capitalism and all that other stuff done in name of Evolution) and refuse to let it be confronted - i'm not even talking about change.
Ridiculous, and non-credible.
You can do better than that!
WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles
@Arthemis, the second part was about guidance to you - watch for the emotional state of the other party when communicating, it's a tough call to make a positive impression
on people who are tense about a given situation.
It was about humor also - you'll only get shock therapy for nagging that much, tar and feathers is the next stage.
And about MY personal belief that a real lady can handle a challenge as well ,)
posted 12-07-2007 20:08
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