(un)Intelligent Design. — OZONE Asylum, home of the Mad Scientists

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(un)Intelligent Design.

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Your Text: Insert Slimies » Insert UBB Code » Close Last Tag \| All Tags UBB Help	jade: Thanks for that detailed explanation. It gives me a better idea of what exactly you believe. I will readily admit that my knowledge of Catholicism is fairly superficial these days. A few points/questions: [quote] [b]jade said:[/b] The holy see and his bishops are not a sentencing judges, umpires, or traffic cops. [/quote] I have gotten the impression that the Pope does indeed see himself as a sentencing judge, based on some of his recent statements and [i]Dominus Iesus[/i], which he authored (or at least signed) before he became pope. I find this passage from [i]Dominus Iesus[/i] to be key: [quote]22. With the coming of the Saviour Jesus Christ, God has willed that the Church founded by him be the instrument for the salvation of all humanity (cf. Acts 17:30-31). This truth of faith does not lessen the sincere respect which the Church has for the religions of the world, but at the same time, it rules out, in a radical way, that mentality of indifferentism ?characterized by a religious relativism which leads to the belief that ?one religion is as good as another'?. If it is true that the followers of other religions can receive divine grace, it is also certain that [i]objectively speaking[/i] they are in a gravely deficient situation in comparison with those who, in the Church, have the fullness of the means of salvation.[/quote] ([url=http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20000806_dominus-iesus_en.html]full text[/url]) Granted, it's not Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus (Outside Church No Salvation), but "gravely deficient situation" sounds very serious. For their part, leaders of other world religions have reacted very poorly at the Catholic Church's attempts to engage in what it considers "interreligious dialogue." Attempting to subsume all of the world religions under Catholicism's idea of faith and salvation is not interreligious dialogue, it is simply inclusivism. Again, no value judgments, I just think we should recognize it for what it is. I noticed a particular phrase that you used in your reply: "through no fault of their own." I have heard this before in explanations of Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus, and I take it to mean that someone who is not aware of the salvific power of the Church and their own gravely deficient position cannot be held responsible for not being part of the Church (for the record, this argument is used by many Protestants as well). I understand that arguments like these are attempts to reach out to the worldwide religious community, but I don't see how true interreligious dialogue will be possible as long as the Church insists that everyone plays by their rules. Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but that's the way it looks to me at the moment. [quote]How could [b]she[/b] consider to just forsake those who are not in a communion.[/quote] (emphasis mine) Nice. :) Is this an official position? ;) Oh, one more question: what is the current thinking on the infallibility of the pope? And a quick note to WS: while I respect your right to believe what you choose, I hope that you realize your belief that God does not exist is just that--a belief. Just as the existence of God cannot be proven, neither can the non-existence of God be proven. You may feel that one side of the argument is better supported by the evidence, but unless you are omniscient you can not say that either the existence or non-existence of God is "reality." You cannot slam jade for mistaking belief for reality and then do the same yourself. Well, I guess you could, but it would be intellectually dishonest. If you're going to posit that your beliefs are reality, then jade has every right to do the same. (Please don't bring up the Flying Spaghetti Monster argument or things of that nature. I'm not trying to be solipsistic here, I'm just saying that, logically speaking, there are certain things that we cannot know for sure. The knife cuts both ways.) Loading...
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