From: Happy Hunting Grounds... Insane since: Mar 2001
posted 03-29-2007 13:09
Does anyone besides me find the current hostage crisis between Iran and England suspicious?
What I find to be most suspicious, is that the British ship from where the small boot came from must have seen the Iranian ships approaching - that much must have been obvious. Apparently they sent a Helicopter, so I believe that they did see the Iranian ships well before events transpired.
So why did the British ship in question just stand idly by and let the crew get captured?
This really seems to be suspicous to me.
Anyone have any information on this?
WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles
Aparently, the captured sailors were in small boats from HMS Cornwall. The helicopter that could have been used was away on another mission and the waters were too shallow for HMS Cornwall to intervene. This story from yesterday explains in more detail, and this is the latest I have on it so far.
Suspicious? absobloominglootly I am.
[edit] Update it seems the helicopter was there for at least part of the time and the report about shallow waters was on the news (either BBC or ITV) last night. I can't see a report on that in the links I gave you. More here
There's so much bullsh*t being thrown around all the time lately, I'm just getting sick of it all. I have given up trying to make sense of anything because I can't trust half the crap the various powers attempt to ram down our throats. In fact, if I don't stop trying to make sense of it all, I might just go completely mad.
From: Happy Hunting Grounds... Insane since: Mar 2001
posted 03-29-2007 15:22
From that last link that you posted, Tao -
quote:# One of the small boats used by the boarding party from HMS Cornwall had a GPS chart plotter, continually communicating its position to HMS Cornwall, where the position was displayed on an electronic chart.
# The UK says the two boats were together at all times.
# HMS Cornwall's Lynx helicopter had been monitoring the initial stages of the boarding of the Indian-flagged merchant ship, at 0739 local time on 23 March.
Communications with the boarding team were lost at the time the boarding ended - at 0910.
# The helicopter crew returned to the scene and reported that the two boats were being escorted by Iranian Islamic Republican Guard Navy vessels towards the Shatt al Arab waterway, inside Iranian territorial waters.
First of all, how many boats does the HMS Cornwall have, and how many were actually in use at the time? More than two?
Second, how is it possible that the HMS Cornwall did not see the Iranian warships with radar? If they were seen, why were they not under observation by the helicopter? Seems strange to me. Very strange, as a matter of fact.
Where was the helicopter? Did it return to the HMS Cornwall?
I need the link explaining the shallow water thing, please.
WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles
From: Rochester, New York, USA Insane since: May 2000
posted 03-29-2007 16:53
I find I feel much better blaming all of this on a super cabal that orchestrates all of the big global matters, towards an unseen end.
Blaming this mess that we are in on peoples incompetence and undying ideologies just makes me sad. If it really is based on ideologies and incompetence then we are up shit creek for a while.
On the other hand if there are some secret overlords designing the whole thing the worst we have to look forward to is 1984, as opposed to complete annihilation of our species.
In times like these you have to look for the little positives... I am losing hope in something as pleasant as an information revolution leading to a Utopian singularity.
Found it WebShaman, sorry for the delay I was being pestered by a wasp of all things that just flew in
There is mention of the shallow waters here in the section headed "Outgunned" third paragraph.
quote:Some gaps in British preparations were evident from what the officer said. A Lynx helicopter monitoring the boarding had earlier returned to the mother ship HMS Cornwall, which could not get nearer because of shallow water, and by the time the Cornwall realised what has happening, the British were on the Iranian side.
Now I'm not saying that misinformation is not rife in these matters but the news media in general are guilty as hell of chasing anything, true or half assed speculation, as long as it sells copy or looks good on the TV. Especially if it helps further the careers of the pukespawn journalists.
My opinion of journalists today is the same as Bill Hicks feelings towards advertising people years ago.
quote: WarMage said:
I am losing hope in something as pleasant as an information revolution leading to a Utopian singularity.
As well you should. Utopia is a fictional place for a reason
As for the topic at hand - suspicious? ~shrug~ not more than anything else going on. The question is, will this escalate into a military confrontation? Is that Iran's goal? Is that the UK's goal?
However things got to this, the result is obvious. A lunatic is waving hostages in Britain's face and smirking about it, and we (the British) are forced to sit and take it while our government does little more than squeak its disapproval. What can one do but hang one's head in shame...
When we hold prisoners for years without counsel, fairness, use questionable tactics in acquiring information, and disallow any contact with the outside world they are called detainees, and our leaders are called good Christian men. When British or American troops are held, they are called hostages, and their leader is called a lunatic.
I'm surprised nobody here has mentioned that it might be anything to do with Oil? Apparently the price of oil was rather low between the two nations until the rise of current events.
Good point Ramasax, but it isn't the British who are reknowned for the illegal detention of prisoners. Whether the British partake of such practices or not, I have neither the knowledge nor inclination to argue, but I do know that America has a long and well-documented history of it.
Addendum: I think it worthy of mention that while my opinion of our simpering twat of a leader is probably un-printable, I do not believe that Mr. Blair has ever (to my knowledge) been referred to as 'Christian'. Church and state are not so indivisable this side of the Atlantic, you see.
I doubt Mr. Blair has been referred to as 'good' by anyone with an ounce of intelligence, either.
Come to think of it, I can't imagine many speaking of ol' "Gee Dubya" in such glowing terms.
In fact, if you'd be so kind as to tell me who's been going around referring to US/UK leaders as "good Christian men" I can take measures to stop them voting... or breeding.
Come to think of it, I can't imagine many speaking of ol' "Gee Dubya" in such glowing terms.In fact, if you'd be so kind as to tell me who's been going around referring to US/UK leaders as "good Christian men"
Well, you have to remember - they got where they are because of their popularity. There are plenty of people who side with Bush and support him fully and enthusiastically. Can't speak for Blair's standing of course...
Ramasax - though I won't actually disagree with you, I think there *is* a bit of a difference between the two situations. Not that I would say we are right in our methods...but still a notable difference...
When we hold prisoners for years without counsel, fairness, use questionable tactics in acquiring information, and disallow any contact with the outside world they are called detainees, and our leaders are called good Christian men. When British or American troops are held, they are called hostages, and their leader is called a lunatic. What a strange world we live in.
yeah right, every day thousands of American and British suicide bombers blow themselves up killing innocent children bystanders - so, what? it's for a good cause - right? not to mention that their leader, i mean lunatic, truly believes the holocaust was just a myth.
sorry, but as a Canadian I'll side with Brits or Yanks any day of the week on this one.
quote:Blaise: I'm surprised nobody here has mentioned that it might be anything to do with Oil? Apparently the price of oil was rather low between the two nations until the rise of current events.
Oil, not important, nothing to see here, move along!
All I think one need say about Oil and current global events which seem to be progressing toward more war is 3 words: Iranian Oil Bourse. Well, for starters anyway.
quote:DL: Ramasax - though I won't actually disagree with you, I think there *is* a bit of a difference between the two situations. Not that I would say we are right in our methods...but still a notable difference...
I agree that there are differences. It was a simplification in an attempt to make a point about spin and propaganda.
My view, when I step back and look at the big picture, is that the differences between the two terms "hostage" and "detainee" as used by the British and American governments in the context of the current debacle are purely for psychological spin. You could just as easily call the detainees at Guantanamo and other secret prisons "hostages", and vice versa. The wording used has a purpose, to manipulate objectivity and garner support of populations. To make us good, and they evil, so that western governments may retain our dominance over that region and keep the oil, which drives the global marketplace, flowing consistently, at least into the hands of the multinationals.
I must also state that I believe all 3 of these men have each shown many moments of lunacy. Good Christian men? Good Muslim men? No, just men.
quote:yeah right, every day thousands of American and British suicide bombers blow themselves up killing innocent children bystanders - so, what? it's for a good cause - right? not to mention that their leader, i mean lunatic, truly believes the holocaust was just a myth.
You guys get FoxNews up there in Canada now, eh?
BTW, I enjoy your photography, keep up the excellent work.
Well, the crisis is over, and I am left with an uneasy feeling that something important happened, but I cannot put my finger on it.WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities. - Sophocles
quote: Ramasax said:
You guys get FoxNews up there in Canada now, eh?
Yep. We have everything you guys have including American Idol. Do you guys get the Trailer Park Boys?
Eveyone have a great Easter and long weekend.
p.s. I hope I didn't offend anyone who does not celebrate Easter - I didn't mean Easter as a religious holiday, I meant as in the Easter Bunny...and you all believe in the Easter Bunny, right?
posted 03-29-2007 13:09
::cell::
