From: buttcrack of the midwest Insane since: Oct 2000
posted 10-24-2007 23:07
Yea, ok, it`s quieter here than it was once. We still have a core group of extremely talented people, that are still willing to share their knowledge. We`re still willing to welcome new members as the come. That`s the point. That`s what makes this place what it is. The insanity (and treatment) just makes it more fun.
As for the GN, it`s doing what it was built for, as I recall. It`s a repository of information. I still refer people to the tutorials there, as they are some of the best available. It`s hard to add to that because the bar was set high from the start.
The short explanation of the ini deal is that he was a talented young man with the people skills of a cactus. I hope he`s doing well on the path he chose. And IMHO this is a better place now .
Participation..yes, we could all participate more, myself included. Sometimes Life leads us down diffferent paths. The sig forum and the RPs taught me as much about image maniulation and anything else I`ve done. And I very much appreciate all the help I recieved here, and will contiue to return it in any way I can.
From: Rochester, New York, USA Insane since: May 2000
posted 10-25-2007 18:20
When the GN was created finding a good tutorial was difficult. Phong's tutorials were pretty much it. Google did not do what it does now, finding good resources was hard. Now you can find a tutorial on anything and everything web development. At the time the GN filled a need, but that need does not exist anymore.
Now I have made a career out of it. During my 9 to 5 I work with some pretty marginal Java frameworks that hopefully no one else here has had the pain to work with. Any questions that I might have with it would not be solved here, I would have to contact the framework developers. My hobby work is spent hacking around with Ruby on Rails and there are tons of communities out there that are completely dedicated towards that end.
It is an evolution of the medium and of the people. Over the past 8 years I would guess that most of the people have either made a career out of what they have done here, or they have moved on to other things. Web development as a hobby is not what it used to be. Anyone can have a decent looking blog or a personal web page in a few clicks. When I started here that was just not possible, you had to learn HTML and how to use Photoshop before you could think of having a web page of your own.
There were a lot of efforts that started and stopped quickly a few years ago about consolidating this site, and giving it a focus again, but they were all non-starters.
I currently see this site as a place that was busting at the seams with talent and potential but ultimately it could not contain it all. It would be nice to say it all fluttered away, but a lot of it exploded out of here in a catastrophic ways.
If you want to get this community really thriving again you need to give people a quantitative reason to stay. I think a lot of people left over the post counts being removed, they stopped seeing their contributions quantitatively. I think that this site failed to evolve with the changing climate of the people here and the web. We had lots of ideas but we failed to get the leadership together to really implement them. We pushed a lot of things off into side projects or sister sites when we should have been building this place up.
I think that this place could get back to where it once was but it would take a lot of work, the kind that I no longer have the time or mind for.
quote:
If you want to get this community really thriving again you need to give people a quantitative reason to stay.
I am looking at a half-full glass of fine wine, which you're seeing as a half-empty glass of not enough wine
- points of view and their differences are something that never ceases to amaze me.
(side-note about stats : in the time it took to pop out and back, a couple of dozens new posts have flourished, some I will read in -years, maybe.
Talk about the side effects of having ideas for the hell of it).
AND, last but not least..
We got two sci-fi classics at hands :
quote:
(Yoda lifts Luke's X-Wing out of the swamp.)
Luke: I don't believe it.
Yoda: That is why you fail.
Now think about Morpheus in the same vein... "you're not the one" (etc).
I think that what really matters is ENJOYING : hard work? I guess maintaining a passion
IS the point of having one, and it IS hard work, therefore, but also a lot of FUN.
So I'll append one more quote, from someone even more respected than Yoda
around these parts : "play is important".
Just from reading this thread, i would guess that the Asylum is becoming a victim the changes that have swept through the Web over the past couple of years. My company's forums are seeing some of the same symptoms.
People are just gradually leaving for other forms of social media. I am as guilty as anybody. I use Twitter and Facebook everyday on both my laptop and iPhone. I rarely ever go to forums.
People's views of the web have changed also. When I first joined the Asylum earlier in my career, I was pretty much a noob seeking the advice of people who had been doing this for awhile. As others have said, there wasn't a lot out there. Now there's too many ways to connect with others. Hell, I can barely keep up with my tech friends (Facebook) and my art and tattooing friends (MySpace).
Back then I spent time seeking out connections, now I spend time maintaining sites and data so my connections can find me.
Enough rambling, here's my couple of suggestions:
Upgrade The Asylum and the faq- I'm not faulting the work TP did on the Grail- it was awsome. But times are changing and it may be time for some new features. I always loved the "cells". It would be cool if they became profile pages(with a lot room to decorate). I'm sure with talent here people could come up with a bunch of ideas. More complete RSS would also be nice
"Leadership" is a pretty broad word. From what I can tell(from stopping in from time to time) is the place needs another Emps. With much respect to Doc - during the time I was most active here Emps really was the one who kept this place going. He did all the small tasks and gave all the right encouragement. Someone, who has the time should fill his role.
And a *bump* to WarMage on everything. Still some great talent here guys.
Well, good and bad news : some old timers just popped back.
Wakkos, for one, got back and mentionned he had been off of the web for three years.
So old timers DO come back.
Now, what Tiki says makes sense : ok, it's not only about the people's qualities.
So how do web users use the web today, quoting my own equation of "project management abriged" :
quote:
Hm. As any project in life :
1) identify purpose
2) identify means
3) get done
1) What is the purpose of the GN or the Asylum right now? Social networking, in part, webdesign and graphic design, mostly
(for both) - teaching, discussing, pioneering.
This differs from facebook so, according to Darwin, there is a niche to occupy.
2) Identify means : what makes people tick on community sites nowadays, and what makes or made people tick
about the Asylum? Things like js 20 line scripts, or less, Photoshop pongs, Phot contests, sig contests, black pills... please fill in the blanks.
With the answers to question 1 and 2 in mind (and this needs a lot more discussion), we can move 3) Realistic execution.
That means : no more enslaving one backbone programmer, I suggest dispatching tasks instead.
Both creative and technical. And I suggest that creatives give the "drive and direction", and techies, the possibilities
and make it.
Regarding point 2, also, I was playing with a software of mine the other day, and found out it had amazing possibilities
for a new concept I called "paint pong". But I shall demonstrate, one picture being worth a thousand words.
I still check both sites - Ozone for info, GN to see if anyone is asking a question I should be responsible for responding to.
GN sadly never managed to achieve a critical mass, and when the few deeply involved got diverted by life changes or got burned out or whatever - there weren't enough in the wings to fill the voids left when the principles couldn't continue.
There also sprang up a bunch of really polished, professional info sites: lynda.com and communityMX being two that come to mind in the areas I'm interested in. I couldn't compete with that level of polish or output.
I guess rather than being sorry it ended we should be glad for what it was but... I'd just as soon the dated info be purged. Like Trib, I now and then get mail from someone trying to do something with a Flash tutorial 5 versions of Flash obsolete...
Ah yeah, that. Before getting back to the topic at hands, a couple of words on a paint pong.
Guy comes in, speed paints based on a theme for x minutes (the audience can see the sketch in progress for both players).
Sketch is replicated to opponent's client, and opponent must pick it up, and spice it up during the same x minutes.
The match goes on until decided otherwise by one or both of the players.
1) Steve has a request, above, about the GN : namely, he receives emails from there and keeps treating his duties as serious duties, and
suffers from it.
2) To expand a bit on my "Star Wars" point : the Asylum CAN be improved, but old timers, strangely enough, popped back a few days after the end of this thread,
to say things along the lines of "I am not dead but instead am building a family", and the likes.
My point here is that : fear in life, fear of ANYTHING, is often unfounded. In this case, VERY CLEARLY, it's not the interest in Asylum which decreased for the old timers,
rather the demands of life that increased.
And as Yoda said very wisely, fear of failure often is the thing that hinders success the most : whatever is done to make the Asylum evolve,
and whatever is suggested, sounds perfectly appropriate (as the lives of inmates and cycles of prominent inmates are subject to evolution,
so should the medium that supports the community, I agree 100%), but it should be for a purpose of coziness rather for
a purpose of "affirmation of identity" - let the place and it's content shine PER SE and search engines and lunatics will crowd it automagically.
This place HAS an identity. It HAS a soul, and an attractive one still. Reskinning it and the GN? Sounds FUN! And that's what it should be.
Peace Arkham (off for a wild wild week on my real world legs).
I think you need to find yourself a house to build from the foundations up.
Instead of trying to bask in the glory of sitting amongst the top of a delerict stately home.
[edit, sorry let me expand]
[qoute]
1) Steve has a request, above, about the GN : namely, he receives emails from there and keeps treating his duties as serious duties, and
suffers from it.
[/quote]
Steve makes no request, Steve takes his duties seriously and gets asked questions about obsolete software, The software in which he wrote tutorials to and attributed his contact address.
Highlighting that some of the GN content has nothing but historical worth. Tutorials for Flash 5, Aren't in high demand.
quote:
2) To expand a bit on my "Star Wars" point : the Asylum CAN be improved, but old timers, strangely enough, popped back a few days after the end of this thread,
to say things along the lines of "I am not dead but instead am building a family", and the likes.
Whats strange about the 'old timers' people who've filled the forums and the GN network with content of abundant quality now stepping back and letting go of the reigns to focus on there careers and families?
It's unfortunate there where not a group of enthusiastic and knowledgeable web professionals to take over the reigns. But the Internet changed, times change and the Ozone for the last 2-3 years has been little more than a place for the older members to keep in touch, share memes, post insight, round-up support and inspiration, (The Pat law suit?) etc.
The Asylum is a community in the strongest sense you'll find in the Internet, A small web-forum by all means at 6k Members, with what I'd guess at a 1% active user-base, but everyone comes back and checks whats going on at the Ozone because of the people here, the fun and the support.
I'll point out to some of the older members who had the patience and sense of humor to understand my filling each forum with posts in regards to "Fly Boy Designs" and looking for CSS/HTML/XHTML/JS Developers to build web sites
If the Ozone was to get a new spark of life, To have the doors burst down with new members, looking for advice on the Internet, given the current climate of Internet users looking for entry level knowledge.. I think you'd find alot of the older members would shy away.
The OZONEs a comfort area. It's your ex-forum that you can always come back too when you want something friendly and familiar and slightly quirky.
*ponders Trigger's answer, doesn't understand the differences in point of views, considers the time of night,
and reserves his answer for a better day*.
How do "new ideas" and the core of what this place is now conflict?
And how do my views and yours conflict?
As far as Steve's thing, I am not trying to come across as bossy, trying instead, maybe too hard, to keep the discussion alive out of
constructive enthusiasm - mind you.
*ponders Trigger's answer, doesn't understand the differences in point of views, considers the time of night,and reserves his answer for a better day*.How do "new ideas" and the core of what this place is now conflict?And how do my views and yours conflict?As far as Steve's thing, I am not trying to come across as bossy, trying instead, maybe too hard, to keep the discussion alive out ofconstructive enthusiasm - mind you.Oh well. *yaaaaaawns*. Night night, "ttyt".(Edited by argo navis on 11-15-2007 02:12)
My point is, You're coming here trying to Push the Ozone into the future and the GN. I think if anyone wanted that they would of done it by now
Um. Did I drag the thread away from it's original purpose? I didn't even notice, d'oh.
Actually, it got there because at some point, an old routine, which I have seen popping back again and again,
bothered me : "the Asylum will die, is dead, etc.".
I think this is a self-limiting belief (a fear without roots in reality), hence my mentionning the "return of old timers" - this place
seems well alive for a dead thing, to stick to observable facts.
From there on, enthusiasm creeped in - yet I still would like to see new "group games", as you said,
Arkam inmates have "pushed the limits" in all possible areas of web and graphics, while keeping stuff
for the "basic questions" AND an emphasis on socialization, fun, games, philosophy, politics, ethics, religion - you name it.
"If they wanted to change it".. The Doc had a lobby in the works at some point, but it's a huge huge work to revamp, evolve,
maintain the structure of SUCH a thing as the Asylum. Tyberius Prime, and (who else does the maintenance?)
may have other things to do - simply. This is not a reason to avoid discussing "structure" evolutions - here and at the GN.
As far as my straightjacket allows me, I can contribute "content" evolutions : new group games, why not?
But I am not suggesting changing the core recipe in the slightest.
Then again, as a fresh inmate, I may be babbling too much about the topic, but hey, I am a dreamer, sue me
To quote docilus bobicus above : "Can you feel the love?"
(Nurse, me meds, time for me to take a step back it seems..).
Well it doesnt matter how long i stay away for, i always come back and am always faced with the same individuals milling around. Familiarity is the reason i come back again and again, not the amount of traffic the site gets.
Yeah, this idea seems to pop up once every year or so. Usually, at which time, old inmates will start popping out of the woodwork, posting like mad. Then, they'll slowly fade into the background again to repeat the cycle again.
As for GN, I've got about five tutorials in various stages of editing from the past 5 years that I never got around to finishing, and I guess the same can be said for a lot of us.
However, I applaud your efforts at trying to stir up discussion. Only time will tell.
I really like the initial idea behind the GN - to have a place where just about anyone can submit a tutorial and have it published. With a killer backend, it got off to a good start.
But, as some have mentioned here, people had other facets of life that take precedence. And, others, including myself, got temporarily bitter at the web design realm.
But I think it has its place, if there are some that want to continue on with it.
posted 10-24-2007 23:07
