I can't tell you how pleased I am to read this article as it's message is long over due IMO. I am disappointed that this would show up in the "oddly enough" section though. It should be mainstream news to help combat the dark forces of PC.
I've never agreed with the argument that the majority culture/religion/race/etc had to suppress itself in the name of tolerance when true tolerance surely applies to all.
As far as I'm concerned, christmas is primarily a cultural celebration. It stopped being a truly christian holiday long ago, and let's not forget that it's history goes back long before christ as well.
I think it is completely absurd to get upset over things being labeled as "holiday" rather than christmas, however, since there are a multitude of holidays that are and have been celebrated at the same time of year (EDIT: and vice versa, of course. that's the point...people being offended by a sign that says merry christmas is ridiculous. people being offended by a sign that says happy holidays is more ridiculous. both have been issues in the news last couple of years...).
I also think you are in a great amount of denial if you think that christians have had to suppress themselves in the name of tolerance, while minority groups have not. Those of us who are not christian have to suppress ourselves everyday, and deal with the heavy handed assumptive christian majority in our daily lives for all of our lives...
DL.
How do you handle the Christmas season?...What about Christmas Day? Are any of your family Christan and do they want you to come over to honor the birth of Christ with them...as a special time for family to get together?
Just curious...
Even though Christmas is too commericalized or materialistic for some..there are those who still honor this time with much senitment and do reflect on the Holy Family of Joseph, Mary and Jesus. There are many church serivces and times when family come together in the name of Jesus at this special time. Its all about family and that is what I believe Christmas does for persons. Makes them closer. Christmas is my favorite time of the year.
Many in my family are at least nominally christian. Some are practicing christians, and many levels of religious adherence are found.
I grew up celebrating christmas. I knew all the religious stories, but like most people (from my observations) the celebration was never religious in nature.
I celebrate christmas today as primarily a day of family togetherness, with, of course, the commercial aspect thrown in for good measure...
It is a wonderful time of year, with or without the notion of christ and his made-up birthday
quote:
So he [Trevor Phillips, chairman of the Equality and Human Rights Commission] joined forces with leaders of minority faiths...
Seems to me that the article's author has forgotten that Christianity if one of the worlds "minority faiths". It seems to me, it's this kind of smug condesention that causes those of other faiths to have problems with the attitudes of Christians
quote:celebrate christmas today as primarily a day of family togetherness, with, of course, the commercial aspect thrown in for good measure
well this is good..that your not a ba humbug.....your presence at the holiday gathering is important to your family that love you regarless of how you feel about the reason for the season. I kinda feel a warm spot brewing somewhere inside my chest for DL. Hmm..Must be a fleeting of the moment Christmas time tug-of-heart.
This may be just a little off-course, but it's been on my mind lately. The Christian voice will never be OK with how Christmas is celebrated or viewed. They've always complained, and they always will.
As the Targets and Wal-Marts increasingly took advantage of the sales potential of Christmas, advertising Christmas specials and plastering "Christmas" across everything they could, Christians complained. They wanted the Big Box stores to stop commercializing Christmas. It's supposed to be a celebration of Christ, they said, and the stores were diluting its meaning.
So, the Targets and the Wal-Marts took the name Christmas out. They started advertising "Holiday" specials and plastered "Happy Holidays" across their ads. What did the Christians do? They complained. How dare you remove the name Christmas from Christmas, they exclaimed. Now the Big Box stores were trying to eradicate Christmas.
No matter what, they will never be happy.
In fact, for me at least, it's the yearly bitching and the controversy that, in large part, has made me want to distance myself from Christmas. The complainers, who say they want to "save" Christmas, are accomplishing just the opposite. You can't just put up a tree and have a good time anymore. It's why my friends and I have agreed not to exchange gifts this year, and instead get ourselves an aluminum pole and put on a nice Festivus drunk.
When I first arrived in Korea, Christmas was truly a religious holiday, mainly because there is no cultural tradition of celebrating Christmas in Korea. As time goes by, the Christmas culture has become more embedded in Korean culture, but it's still nowhere near what it's like in the States or other Western countries. They do hang up lights around the city (Seoul), and I have seen some Christmas decorations, but it's still largely a religious holiday. Not to say that non-Christians do not give gifts, but for the most part it is still recognized as a religious event.
And you know what? Christmas time in Korea is the most depressing time of year for me. I get seriously depressed every year on December 25th. Last year was a little better than it usually is--my wife and I bought a tiny, fake Christmas tree and put our wrapped presents beneath it. I realize that this probably sounds incredibly corny, but it made an incredible difference for me.
Does this mean that Christmas is all about the trappings for me? No. As a Christian, Christmas for me is a celebration of the birth of Christ. But I would be lying if I told you that this was all it was, or that this was even the most important aspect of it. Yes, that's right. This may make me a bad Christian, but over the past decade and change I have realized that the birth of Christ has never been the most important aspect of Christmas for me. The most important aspect for me is being with family and those I love, and feeling the warmth of humanity that we call "the Christmas spirit." That Christmas spirit just does not exist here. We've got the religious connotations, and we're slowly accruing the commercial trappings as well, but (for me) the heart of Christmas is still missing.
Whatever you may feel about the religious or cultural underpinnings, I hope that we can at least share in the spirit of Christmas.
(Sorry for the discombobulated post. It's always hard for to write about this.)
I've pointed this out before, I'm sure, but the 'Christian' celebration of Christmas actually hi-jacked an old Pagan festival in the first place. Made it easier to convert the heathens, you see? :P
I've pointed this out before, I'm sure, but the 'Christian' celebration of Christmas actually hi-jacked an old Pagan festival in the first place. Made it easier to convert the heatherns, you see? :P
I've discussed that at great length here as well (and alluded to it above) =)
quote:I've pointed this out before, I'm sure, but the 'Christian' celebration of Christmas actually hi-jacked an old Pagan festival in the first place. Made it easier to convert the heathens, you see? :P
I really don't think it matters how Christmas season came to be ...just the fact that this special time is here for us to get together to make the most of each other to show love and affection in hugs and kisses... and yes...even give each other gifts large or small to show how much our friends and family mean to us. Christmas time is a blessing of friends and family ... For me, no doubt it is God designed because it comes from the hearts of persons...where I believe for us Jesus lives. I don't think there is proof that all stems all from pagan rituals. For one, St. Nicholas was really a Bishop who gave to the poor and this is the reason we have Santa Claus.
Hope all have a safe and festive Christmas and New Year's season.
From: Happy Hunting Grounds... Insane since: Mar 2001
posted 12-13-2007 16:11
I personally think they should just do away with Christmas - the religious can keep it as a holy day if they so choose.
As a national holiday, it should vanish.
Instead, it should be called simply Family Day.
One day out of the year that is dedicated to and celebrates the Family.
Times in my childhood, I spend time in a Jewish household. They do not celebrate Christmas.
I did not miss it - of course, my family was very, very poor back then. So even in those years afterwards, when we did celebrate Christmas, I only got presents like clothes, socks, underwear.
One year I got a Dictionary and some slippers - both second hand from a yard sale.
None of the Christmas' that we celebrated had anything remotely to do with the Christian Religion. It was nice to have the family together, however. And normally, either an animal would be slaughtered and at least there would be food, or we had some wild game that we were able to hunt down.
These days, though Christmas is celebrated in my house, me and my wife do not exchange gifts with one another, nor is it in any way, shape, or form related to any sort of religious celebration. The family gets together, some gifts get exchanged, and a big dinner is served.
WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles
Two religious recognized holidays in the US are about Christianity. Christmas & Easter. Here where I work for the Harris County DA's office..we get two days off for each one. Its a wonder that anti religious groups have not complained about seperation of church/state regarding time off work. Can anyone comment why on this? Could it be that they would loose the battle.
But VAlentine's Day and and St. Partricks DAy are also dedicated to Christian Saints. And these days are recgonized as special days every year. For us, News Years day is a Holy Day of Obligation. We are supposed to honor this day witha Holy Mass. As we would honor all Sundays.
Two religious recognized holidays in the US are about Christianity. Christmas & Easter. Here where I work for the Harris County DA's office..we get two days off for each one. Its a wonder that anti religious groups have not complained about seperation of church/state regarding time off work. Can anyone comment why on this? Could it be that they would loose the battle.
1) I'm quite sure you are not going to get anyone to fight against getting paid time off from work, regardless of the reason
2) As we've mentioned - and this is one of the reasons why such things *do* actually matter - both of those holidays have very distinctly non-christian origins. Certainly they are widely celebrated as the christian holidays they were morphed into; as we've said though, many of the popular trappings of the celebrations are distinctly pagan. Even the name Easter is the pagan name of the original celebration in pre-christian europe.
Many cultures in many places have celebrated these times of the year for thousands of years, for very simple and obvious reasons.
My main concern in posting this is the abuses of Political Correctness. I quite agree that people should be free to celebrate Christmas as a religious holiday or secular or whatever.
What upsets me so much are the people who are terrified of offending people by saying "Merry Christmas". And I'm even more upset by those who could be offended by it.
I celebrate Christmas in much the same way that Suho described. For me it is a wonderfully magical time of year mixed with secular cheer and deep religious significance all wrapped up in a nice package
quote: DL-44 said:
I also think you are in a great amount of denial if you think that christians have had to suppress themselves in the name of tolerance, while minority groups have not. Those of us who are not christian have to suppress ourselves everyday, and deal with the heavy handed assumptive christian majority in our daily lives for all of our lives...
Well, I can assure there is no denial happening here because it is a fact that Xians have had to do that. But I am not suggesting in any way, shape or form that minority groups haven't either. I am not even suggesting there is anything close to parity on who has had to hold back more because that should be clear to all.
I feel it is crucial that if we are ever going to truly defeat intolerance in this society, we must fight against it whenever and to whomever it happens.
quote: DL-44 said:
quote:
White Hawk said:
I've pointed this out before, I'm sure, but the 'Christian' celebration of Christmas actually hi-jacked an old Pagan festival in the first place. Made it easier to convert the heatherns, you see? :P
I've discussed that at great length here as well (and alluded to it above) =)
Yep, I remember that conversation quite well. WH, acknowledged about the hijacking. The church coopted existing celebrations and that is all quite appropriate from a christian theological point of view. I don't think there is anything wrong about that at all and I wish more people, particularly christians, were aware of this part of history.
As far as I'm concerned, christmas is primarily a cultural celebration. It stopped being a truly christian holiday long ago, and let's not forget that it's history goes back long before christ as well.
That's an excellent and oft overlooked point DL. There is more than one story (myth? legend?) of "Christ", Mithras being the best known yet certainly out of the public eye:
quote:The Vatican was built upon the grounds previously devoted to the worship of Mithra (600 B.C.). The Orthodox Christian hierarchy is nearly identical to the Mithraic version. Virtually all of the elements of Orthodox Christian rituals, from miter, wafer, water baptism, alter, and doxology, were adopted from the Mithra and earlier pagan mystery religions.
quote:Some scholars have also used similar language to describe the circumstances of Mithras' and Jesus' birth: Joseph Campbell described it as a virgin birth, and Martin A. Larson noted that Mithras was said to have been born on December 25th, or winter solstice.
More similarities: Mithras had 12 apostles, he also died/came back to life, according to some accounts.
All that to say, this could be another version of VHS vs BetaMax.
We know which story won out, but we could have been celebrating Mithrmas now.
From: The Land of one Headlight on. Insane since: May 2001
posted 12-26-2007 16:41
Seems Political Correctness has been around a whole lot longer than I thought.
quote:PC'ism was developed at the Institute for Social Research in Frankfurt, Germany, which was founded in 1923 and came to be known as the "Frankfurt School." It was a group of thinkers who pulled together to find a solution to the biggest problem facing the implementers of communism
in Russia.
Interesting article, NoJive. Good to see you! I hope you and yours had a wonderful Christmas!!!
I agree with the point made about PC chipping away at the rights of the individual. I find PC so abhorrent because it does challenge one of the most fundamental concepts of western society. I cannot stomach how willing the general public seems to acquiesce to its restrictions on free speech. On one day people become furious at the thought of losing free speech rights in say vulgar movies and music yet obediently shut up during their normal activities at work and the marketplace.
From: Happy Hunting Grounds... Insane since: Mar 2001
posted 12-27-2007 10:07
quote: Bugimus said:
Interesting article, NoJive. Good to see you! I hope you and yours had a wonderful Christmas!!!I agree with the point made about PC chipping away at the rights of the individual. I find PC so abhorrent because it does challenge one of the most fundamental concepts of western society. I cannot stomach how willing the general public seems to acquiesce to its restrictions on free speech. On one day people become furious at the thought of losing free speech rights in say vulgar movies and music yet obediently shut up during their normal activities at work and the marketplace.When will it end?
When not a word can be said, Bugs.
"And no one dared
Disturb the sound of silence." - Simon and Garfunkel
WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles
From: The Land of one Headlight on. Insane since: May 2001
posted 12-28-2007 17:49
My position on PC is pretty well known around here I think.... it's a load.
One bit of PC that almost eluded me until recently involves the mimicking of accents.
It is for example perfectly acceptable to put on the voice of a Scotsman... or an Irishman and proceed with a joke of some description. Should you mimic an East Indian accent however you are, almost immediately, labeled a racist.
Bugs: Yes, a good Christmas thank you. Caroline says Hi... and sends her best.
Our neighbours again hosted dinner. 16 of us around the table this year. Caroline and a friend did some quick addition and calculated that amongst the 16 of us the number of Christmas's celebrated was no fewer than one thousand! You do the math on the average age. =)
___________________________________________________________________________
?It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.? Voltaire
NoJive, you're quite right about the accent. I recently had to sit through a 2 hour state mandated sexual harrassment training video that mentioned that mimicking accents was a "no no".
But there is at least one place where wonderfully talented accents of many kinds seem to be acceptable and that is on the cartoons that kids watch. I see quite a few since I have a 6 year old and it seems there's a very good range of accents on many of the shows including Indian, Scottish, Irish, etc. Everytime I hear one I wonder if the forces of PC are out there scheming on ways to shut it down.
posted 12-11-2007 16:18
