I have this web based application beta. Beta 0.5 atm.
It's Java, and it is in french for the local market - I will get to internationalisation later.
The application does this : it provides interfaces for loading and saving a variety of recent image formats (png, jpeg2000, ..)
Then it applies a "fast find edges" filter to the pictures. Once this is done, you can save the pictures back to .png format.
The display is independent from the processing size of images : means you can watch the picture in 1600x1200, and the app will handle (and save) it in it's native resolution.
Registration of new users is temporarily blocked, so if you want to see the full thing :
username : Asylum
password : demo
And it's Windows only, in spite of Java, but will very soon be available for OSX and Linux as well.
{And yes, it's the website I am asking you to review (but the website is a whole thing includes the application)}
Can't log in ... to be honest my french is a little rusty.
I understand that Identifiant might mean username, Mot de passe might mean password and then
quote:Merci de saisir un identifiant et un mot de passe valides. Si vous n'en possédez pas encore, les liens ci-dessus contiennent toutes les indications utiles pour les créer.
leaves me clueless... it's red tho so that must be bad
Okay, thanks and sorry for this guys.
The problem is with the database engine unfortunately : hosting personel tend to upgrade without notification,
and they change the config during this process - it's the second time around valid sql queries become
more strict and I have to fiddle with working code.
Will fix it asap : as this will be my main activity for the next ten days.
For the time being, may I ask for the kind of pro feedback you guys are great for? Eg. LIs where they belong,
looks, feel, etc?
All good points and field tested (the above site originally was white btw).
The primary target audience is an archeology institute. Most of them are Indiana Jones type ladies who like to have their hands
in soil, and don't like technology - hence the difficulty in branding it properly : colder? hotter? happier? Hard to nail.
Internationalisation and intense development of this whole thing is up next : until a meeting next week,
I should finish 90% of the free demo version, leading the project to beta 0.7 - three iterations later, sales will start.
In the meantime, I already am selling services.
So stay tuned, and by all means, THIS is the right project on which to be nitpicky right now - standard nazis, please try me
And try me HARDER this time around.
[EDIT] Looks updated, and I have nailed the login issue - which turns out to be, indeed, the consequence of a spontaneous misconfiguration
from the hosting team. Something about DNS, it is unclear yet and I am waiting for their feedback about it - it's out of my control, technically,
but I am on it[/EDIT]
White one looks much better imo. Change the buttons and text fields as well ... they look a little out of place right now.
The "Projet" page has a scrollbar on the right which I'm not quite sure is necessary.
Perhaps do something with the 1px black border too... try losing altogether and if it doesn't work then another color maybe.
Whatever it looks like ... make sure it doesn't look obsolete. You want to hear "Oh, thats pretty!" the first time they look at it.
edit: Especially for people who don't like/use computers much you have to make it approachable, pretty, elegant, simple ... for obvious reasons.
I've seen it several times ... show something pretty to a client and they're on the boat before they notice it themselves. They won't even care if it does anything or works at all.
Absolutely. Most of it is sold already - but COSA being one of our two key products along some high end hardware, and contacts tending to become more and more frequent,
it deserves the best treatment and all my attention right now.
I completely see what you mean : I agree with the shiny button thing which was a tip from some inmate (between two meetings though,
so I'll cut her some slack). The left menu is a pain in my rear, I don't know what to do with it really.
Arthurio: I was the inmate mentioned by argo. I agree with what you said in principle (by the way, you really put some effort in giving feedback, this is great basis for discussion); you comments were sound, from a visual point of view. To make things a bit clearer, what I mentioned to argo (which I should have taken the time to copy here, my apologies) was that his buttons did not look like buttons, both in their visual aspect and behaviours: they give no hint that they actually are clickable (even the pointing cursor was missing). I am talking more from a usability point of view - although I still think the page mixes too many style.
The trouble is here that he is in fact promoting a product - which should be the call for action on his page, in one way or another.
Again, the menu on the right does not look like a neat, modern menu, and the menu items could do a better job of making me feel like clicking on them.
Look here , here or here for example; there is a very fine line between a good a bad design. Things that works are good contrast, fine/subtle lines, a good/balanced colour scheme , etc.
[edit] How spooky, I was going to suggest a semi transparent menu [/edit]
[edit II] I really like the left-hand side now, but still think the "Démarrer" button should be placed elsewhere, more in evidence, and separated from the login zone - unless what it does is effectively to log you in, in which case it should bare a more common label, such as "s'identifier", or whatever is in use in French[/edit]
quote: kimson said:Look here , here or here for example; there is a very fine line between a good a bad design. Things that works are good contrast, fine/subtle lines, a good/balanced colour scheme , etc.
Agreed and I'm not saying that what I changed is perfect but I'm not a fan of the links you posted either because they look like what they are: templates for something general. All the things you mentioned need to be used correctly in order to achieve the wanted effect I'm sure you understand that too.
quote:[edit II] I really like the left-hand side now, but still think the "Démarrer" button should be placed elsewhere, more in evidence, and separated from the login zone - unless what it does is effectively to log you in, in which case it should bare a more common label, such as "s'identifier", or whatever is in use in French[/edit]
Thanks. I think it is supposed to be the log-in button tho. Am I wrong? I still kind of dislike the whole right side ...
I should probably shut up for a while. I don't want to hijack this thread
All the things you mentioned need to be used correctly in order to achieve the wanted effect I'm sure you understand that too.
Yes, and when the wanted effect is achieved, it will be so obvious...
Here is my quick and dirty (Photoshop) attempt. Again, these are only ideas, but the idea is to polish the whole thing, and integrate the background in a better way, by matching the colours better and toning it down slightly.
quote: Arthurio said:
I think it is supposed to be the log-in button tho. Am I wrong? I still kind of dislike the whole right side ...
Again, this is only pointless exercise until it absolutely matches the purpose of the page; so yes, let's have these questions answered first.
Ahh everyone loves the CSS Zen Garden, Didn't we try and make one over at the Guru's network once? What happened to that?
Back on Topic, I can't really add more than what Arthurio has been good enough to take his time out to mention and mock-up.
However I guess the Démarrer (Start) button does need to more highlighted. It's essentially a submit button tied to the login form, and so I think using a text link does not do it justice, it would be more effective if it was a form button (as it was before) but this time with a more relevant style to the rest of the form.
Failing that, how about text with a glyph/icon/image to label it?
quote: kimson said:
Here is my quick and dirty (Photoshop) attempt.
Looks nice but it's too boxy ^^ imo. If you look at the examples you posted earlier you won't see a single box ... there are rectangles but not a single one that has a border on all 4 sides.
Blaise: It means 'start'? Hehe sorry I didn't know. In that case I understand the need for it to stand out a bit more. I agree that some kind of graphical element there would probably do it. Needs to be stylish tho.
edit: Arrow pointing right ( -> ) usually means start/begin/start playing.
I agree -- I think this probably came from the fact that I felt everything was a bit floating about... The background is adding quite a lot of noise imho.
Okay... synthesis time : everybody, thank you, the effort is great.
Don't be afraid of hijacking threads - I'll adress poi's latest answer in a moment, I hope it will really clarify
the knee-jerk episode.
I don't think there is such a thing as hijacking a thread - I think a discussion should just flow naturally - unless it contains
one major, sticking point like some specific dhtml technique.
Anyway :
1) Kimmy, as I said, too quick a feedback the first time
-> unless what it does is effectively to log you in,
Yeah, that's what it does and no, you didn't specify anything about coherence the first time around - although it's something anyone who has attended
an art school (cough cough) knows from the first month In addition, the moment you question the noise introduced by my background picture is the moment
you question 90% of my personality in this website - the moment it is not mine anymore.
So it's the moment I draw the line and say thank you, but no, thanks.
The problem of the "lack of boundaries" is actually introduced by properly highlighting menu items against that background - and it is not easy :
honestly, I don't like the white menu on white at all. It screams "hospital" - ok, it's sober, it feels "relatively right" from a technical point of view.
But it is nowhere near to being attractive.
...
So let's sum it up : "démarrer", as in 10 years and more of MS "start" menu, should communicate "click me to begin"
to about... anyone who has used an intel pc in the past 10 years And yes it goes with the password boxes.
The general feel of an absence of boundaries may be adressed, but differently : I am starting to have ideas of my own
to solve the mentionned problems - but it matters a LOT for these to be on my own and based on your input (it's a product
of mine, has to come from the heart).
Mo' work ahead for a Friday night And yes, thank you. Will get back to you about it all
(btw, another succesful appointment today but it's getting really tedious as in - what the hell am I doing home on Friday?)
(just a few particular cases where the navigation text is on top of a rich background - to prove it exists, and can work.
Kimmy You know who the white/white combo reminds me? Double P himself -
that guy is the dark side of the force, don't make me do THAT)
...(back in a minute with something based on Arthurio's version,
and please, just remove the meta tags, it would be great, I get indexed quickly
and I hardly understand why to this day)
1) the left menu.
How to use all the tips I received and my above 4th link from csszengarden together, or at least, try.
I find it gets the best of all this way, I find it blends in better while staying in line with the rest of the page. Opinions?
Arthurio, on the technical said, others may think and say whatever they want : I never use the three different transparency attributes
in direct css - I put hacks like this in a script and add them dynamically, so if the browser is minimal,
then the impact is minimal as well, js dies alis mostly preserved.
quote: poi said:
Visited links become invisible in the navigation.
When the window is not tall enough, the copyright and RSS icon overlap the navigation and other things higher in the page.
Page having some content shows 2 scrollbars : that of the page + that of the content area. That's a big no-no.
I agree on these things.
Argo: there are other things I changed besides the left menu such as: moved the 'main' lower for better composition, removed the black border, changed the text color ... I think the 'visited' state is unnecessary for that kind of web page. The color scheme you have now doesn't work for me. The left menu is dominating the whole page and ruining the composition. Btw strangely the background wireframe thing doesn't bother me at all. Also I don't think anyone attacking or questioning your personality or whatever. About white on white meaning hospital - you're imagining it :P
I am gonna start speaking french :
>> anyone attacking or questioning your personality or whatever.
...Ahhhh.... uuuuh. Where did you read THAT?
(no, just give me the manual someone... how many times do I have to subtitle what I say?)
In terms of communication, all I am saying is that sincerity must be sincerity - if I was to remove the wireframe background
which I - love - I would remove ME from the page. For kimson, this vision, imho, of "readable text areas without disturbing background",
comes of the "school of gfx" she comes from and from her rather discreet personality. In other words it's a matter of TASTE, not
a real world issue if handled properly.
As such comments are naturally part of any review, I have to compromise between your personal taste, truely objective advice, and MY taste which,
in the end, matters a lot too because I have to "bond" with people who will enjoy my applications - I have to take some things, remove others, etc..
quote:"readable text areas without disturbing background", comes of the "school of gfx" she comes from and from her rather discreet personality. In other words it's a matter of TASTE, not a real world issue if handled properly.
How come a non issue requires to be properly handled ?
Because instead of an issue, it's a special case / tedious decision to put text, or anything you want to be readable, on top of a "noisy background".
It can easilly slip into excess and BECOME an issue.
It's just like you : you do need to be properly handled but I wouldn't call you an issue
Darling kimson : you're a breath of fresh air - and you're amazing me constantly. Stop that!
I am not getting married again I think.
'Bout posting a link? Nah, that stuff is dangerous.
Arthurio, Kimson -
It's nearly impossible for me to set a definitive deadline, but a professional demonstration to the main customer will occur beginning of April.
So you should be able to see it by then (the evaluation version, the commercial version will take a couple more weeks).
"problem" for defining a deadline : I am getting new customers by the day, for different projects, all cutting edge,
and I have yet to learn to use an agenda Plus I am doing the "whole" stuff : coding, marketing, meeting... I am not alone, but
it's 7/7 10 hours a day for me for the weeks to come.
Btw argo or toast or whoever ... do you have a issue tracking system set up yet? If you don't I'd recommend 'Atlassian Jira' ... but there are other options. You'll definitely need one tho...
Hey, cool Arthurio I'd favor argo, just argo, but toast is fine. Mauro is ok for you too.
I was considering implementing my own because the errors are triggered by heterogenous components (dlls, sos, jars, etc..).
I'll have a look at that.
For this project, I don't only need the error tracking :
- I need concurrent connections control (one license to rule all usages from different computers)
- Secure session transfer from java to php and back
- Etc
It's not a small thing - and the thoughest bit to adress is the core algorithmy : it all is experimental algorithmy, for some,
implemented already in other software, but pretty new to the whole world - or simply, completely new for some parts.
Let me just fgure out where I should begin and what to prioritize.
Just so that you know: Jira is highly configurable, has a nice soap based remote interface and it's very easy to write new plug-ins for. Extending Jira
I have first hand experience with it as the main Jira administrator and information systems integration developer in my international company. So you know I'm not pulling that recommendation/information out of anywhere.
quote:toast said:
- I need concurrent connections control (one license to rule all usages from different computers)
- Secure session transfer from java to php and back
You didn't provide enough information for me to be 100% sure but I don't think these things have anything to do with issue tracking. So perhaps you should consider keeping them separated?
Btw my company has a [classified] [classified] [classified] proprietary issue tracking system that we are trying to get rid of and move to Jira from.
In the case of a distributed application using these technologies (JavaFX pretty much), the application is "built up"
from the web at runtime - appropriate components are downloaded, provided the user authorizes it, cached, updated
when an update is available, and assembled at runtime.
Thus, to track issues, I have to collect them : I want to automate this process. I want any crashing dll, javascript, jar, or class to be identified,
automatically and the stack trace/memory dump to be reported by user/time/recent application events/platform/Java version and then some more
(an "application crash : send bug report?" kind of feature).
Have to see, therefore, how configurable/manageable and FREE a tracking system is - everything COSA has to be built 100% in house
OR free of any GPL kind of constraints.
Well Jira is more about project management and an issue in Jira terms may mean anything from a Task, Bug, Requirement to whatever custom issue type that you specify. It's open source but not GPL and I wouldn't consider selling it with another product. You could however easily write a plugin for it that gathers all these 'automatically generated issues' into a special Jira project etc but I don't think that completely automating something like that is worth the time and would work very well because whatever you do these 'automatically generated issues' will still need alot of screening from real people.
Regular use of Jira means manually creating these issues (tasks, bugs, whatever) and actual people working on them for any given time from a few minutes, to hours, days, perhaps weeks or more) and while they're at it they change the issues' statuses, fields' values, make comments etc.
So how I see it. It would be a pretty simple solution to send e-mails instead of creating issues in a complicated system. People would screen those e-mails (most likely delete 96.73% of them) and create issues into an issue tracking system as needed. If you think you may not have enough resources to screen those issues manually then you're doomed anyway.
Arthurio, thanks for the clarification but - I should have said "automatically reported issues", maybe.
Any serious application, nowadays, does that "send bug report" thing.
I have worked, quite recently, to support and maintain a system which would gather issues encountered by any of the 50000 employees
of the firm - or any of the hundreds of third parties using it from outside.
On the "central" side of things, such issues should then be automatically stored in the knowledge base of the company,
as per ITIL support guidelines (support processes framework - support standards), and accessible to any member of the IT personel
from developers to.. you name it. I personnally like HP "Service Desk" for handling these "cases".
Support personel, for the moment, is limited (read : me) - but the first customer being an archeology institute,
they need industry level quality. What usually applies to handle a small to mid scale project like a web
is way, way below the requirements here in terms of automation, optimisation, and accessibility.
....
Picture them in the middle of the desert of Gobi, connected through a portable satellite device,
and trying to make a phone call to my helpdesk. 100$/minute for talking to a support agent is not the best thing to them.
(btw : all the project requirements, including a fault tolerance in case this/that idea would fail, timely budget,
fnances, etc.. Have been documented a year ago when I started. Before travelling the world to support
the afforementionned corporate application, the one I mention at the top of this post).
...
And a tip you could use when your project takes off is : do NOT start a business by paying, paying, paying
even if contracts are lining up. Focus on minimizing expenses and dependencies from third parties - you'll be better
for it.
A crooked laptop in my flat is enough - and the tax department, due to my legal status, now pay half of my rent
(because the law considers it my office).
(but since I value your advice on this, I totally think I cannot do it justice while in rushrushrush mode -
it deserves more attention than I can give it right now, rest assured it's in my papers)
Yes, and when the wanted effect is achieved, it will be so obvious...
Here is my quick and dirty (Photoshop) attempt. Again, these are only ideas, but the idea is to polish the whole thing, and integrate the background in a better way, by matching the colours better and toning it down slightly.
The problem is with the database engine unfortunately : hosting personel tend to upgrade without notification,
and they change the config during this process - it's the second time around valid sql queries become
more strict and I have to fiddle with working code.
posted 01-04-2008 08:16
[/edit]
stupid spammers