Topic: Bread Making Pages that link to <a href="https://ozoneasylum.com/backlink?for=30684" title="Pages that link to Topic: Bread Making" rel="nofollow" >Topic: Bread Making\

 
Author Thread
Tao
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: The Pool Of Life
Insane since: Nov 2003

IP logged posted posted 12-01-2008 18:02 Edit Quote


I made my first loaf of bread in a long time yesterday and I have been delighted with the results, it tasted as good as it looks. I decided to just try a very simple recipe to get me into the swing of the process.
I used 1lb granary flour, (some) yeast, 10 fl oz water and 1/2oz margarine.
Mixed the flour with margarine and then water to a dough, added the yeast. Kneaded the dough for about ten minutes then placed into a pound tin with a little flour around the sides to prevent sticking. Then I let it rise by a warm radiator with a damp cloth over it for about an hour and a half. After which I placed into a pre-heated oven 220F for about half an hour.

The yeast I used was packet stuff but I want to try real live yeast next time. I'm going to use all the ingredients from as natural a source as I can manage for future baking sessions, no pre-mixes.
If anyone has any recipes I'd love to hear about them and perhaps give them a try.


Those who look for monsters should look to it that
they do not become monsters. For when you gaze
long into the abyss, the abyss also gazes into you.

poi
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Norway
Insane since: Jun 2002

IP logged posted posted 12-01-2008 18:42 Edit Quote

The bread looks great.

My brother was a baker and still bake all sort of bread, brioches, croissants and pains au chocolat every now and then. I don't remember his main recipe for bread but I'm pretty sure he doesn't use margarine. He adds a pinch of salt to the dough though. Alsosure the water/flour ratio is higher in his recipe. But I might be confused. Last but not least he often adds "stuffs" in the dough of his breads, like nuts, chestnuts, rasisins, lardons, ...


http://www.artisanbreadbaking.com/ look pretty good. Skimming through some recipes and pictures does ring a bell.

Oh my! The imperial system is complete giberish to me. 1lb = 450g, 10 fl oz of water = 30cl ( aka 30g ) of water, 1/2 oz of margarine = 15g, 220F = 105C

Arthurio
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: cell 3736
Insane since: Jul 2003

IP logged posted posted 12-01-2008 19:17 Edit Quote

Looks really good!
Btw what do you mean by "The yeast I used was packet stuff but I want to try real live yeast next time." ... if it's dead it can't 'rise' ... no?

Anyway looks delicious! ...

poi
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Norway
Insane since: Jun 2002

IP logged posted posted 12-01-2008 19:39 Edit Quote

Arthurio: I think Tao meant baking powder, which purely a chemical as opposed to yeast which is a living organism. Both have very similar effect.

Arthurio
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: cell 3736
Insane since: Jul 2003

IP logged posted posted 12-01-2008 20:00 Edit Quote

Tao
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: The Pool Of Life
Insane since: Nov 2003

IP logged posted posted 12-01-2008 20:44 Edit Quote

I did mean yeast, but it comes in different forms. There is a flour mixture that already has yeast incorporated into the mix. I think this is mainly used for bread making machines. Then there is dried active yeast that can be re-activated by adding warm water and sugar, this is the method I have been using. The method I said I would like to try is using fresh yeast. I used to get fresh yeast from my local baker and I seem to remember it being the preferred method for professional bakers. It may be that I am viewing the past through rose tinted spectacles, but still I'd like to try.

Thanks for the linkage poi, I'm hoping to become proficient in making all manner of breads, from a basic wholemeal through to my own creations with walnut, pumpkin seeds, banana, and basically anything healthy that will work in the mix.

I'm also going for soda bread as well which does not require yeast at all.


Those who look for monsters should look to it that
they do not become monsters. For when you gaze
long into the abyss, the abyss also gazes into you.

Tao
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: The Pool Of Life
Insane since: Nov 2003

IP logged posted posted 12-01-2008 20:59 Edit Quote

Some of my musings while making the bread:
Kneading: I'm sure there must be different methods of kneading patterns for different results. I know there are some circumstances when the dough is kneaded twice.
Temperature: Slight variations not only for the actual baking but also keeping bowls warm, and the surface upon which the dough is kneaded.

lan
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Darwin, NT, Australia
Insane since: Dec 2003

IP logged posted posted 12-01-2008 22:36 Edit Quote

Yuuummm

NoJive
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: The Land of one Headlight on.
Insane since: May 2001

IP logged posted posted 12-02-2008 00:11 Edit Quote

My wife bakes, what I think is referrred to as, a Monestary bread. I'll post the recipe later but I do know there's no yeast at all and that from start to finish... that is from mixing the ingreedamints to in you mouth boy.... 45 minutes. You're lucky if the oven is up to heat, by the time you've mixed the ingredients.

Very fast and VERY delicious. =)

___________________________________________________________________________
?Privatize the Profits - Socialize the Losses.? Randi Rhodes

Tao
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: The Pool Of Life
Insane since: Nov 2003

IP logged posted posted 12-02-2008 02:10 Edit Quote

MmmmmMonastery bread, do I have to take a vow of silence to get the recipe? Holy toast NoJive



(Edited by Tao on 12-02-2008 02:12)

Suho1004
Maniac (V) Mad Librarian

From: Seoul, Korea
Insane since: Apr 2002

IP logged posted posted 12-02-2008 02:56 Edit Quote

Woohoo, bread making! One of my favorite hobbies.

That looks like a great loaf, Tao! I wish I had an oven big enough to bake a loaf that high. As it is, I can't really bake pan loaves and have to go with flatter loaves (the batard is usually my shape of choice).

I'm not really sure about the measurements, because I'm not used to baking in metric, but the recipe does seem to have a very low hydration. Let me do some conversions... OK, that comes out to 284 milliliters of water (assuming you're using UK fl. oz. and not US--apparently there's a difference) and 454 grams of flour, which comes out to approximately 63% hydration. Actually, that's not too bad. Professional bakers will bake more hydrated loaves, sometimes up to 80%, but the more water you add the more difficult it is to handle. The highest I go at home is usually about 70%. Higher hydration gives the bread a lighter, more airy crumb, but you have to be careful because if the bread rises higher than the structure can support, it will collapse. Still, you might want to experiment with more water and see how high you can get it. In my experience, higher hydration produces better loaves.

The baking temperature seems extremely low, though. Are you sure you don't mean 220 Celsius? I would be surprised if the bread baked all the way through at 220F for only a half hour.

Oh, and what is granary flour? I'm not familiar with that term.

As for the yeast, I use instant yeast for the convenience. If you're going to be baking a lot, you might want to try keeping a sourdough culture, but I don't think you have to worry about not being a "real" baker just because you don't use fresh yeast. Although you should definitely feel free to give it a shot and report your results!

(Gotta comment on poi's comment about yeast and baking powder, though. While it's true that they are both leavening agents, they really aren't similar at all, and I would be wary of saying that they produce the same effect. You can't really substitute one for the other--some baked goods require baking powder, while some require yeast. Just wanted to clarify )


___________________________
Suho: www.liminality.org | Cell 270 | Sig Rotator | the Fellowship of Sup

NoJive
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: The Land of one Headlight on.
Insane since: May 2001

IP logged posted posted 12-03-2008 00:23 Edit Quote

I've not forgotten you Tao ol'bud

"She who must be obeyed" will be along with the recipe when she is ah.... how can I say this without sounding like ... never mind never mind... When she's Good'n Ready! I'll have you know I said that standing up.

You ever notice that with one transposition- - a Type "O" as in a typo ( as we used to call it) and you go from TaO to TOAST... like THAT FAST. Just don't bogart the butter!

___________________________________________________________________________
?Privatize the Profits - Socialize the Losses.? Randi Rhodes

Tao
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: The Pool Of Life
Insane since: Nov 2003

IP logged posted posted 12-03-2008 17:43 Edit Quote

Here in Ye Olde Merrie Englande our measurements are all over the place. I think I'm right in saying that it is illegal for shops to use anything but the metric system and it is only the metric system that is taught in schools. Having said that the Imperial system has persisted and I hope will still keep on going. Many places offer both metric and what I would call standard. I can only use and work in miles, feet and inches or pounds and ounces, or Fahrenheit and not Celsius, and I have no inclination to adjust my mental calibrations for any politician.

It has been noted that this can lead to some confusion, I seem to remember a space probe to Mars I think it was going disastrously wrong due to a mix-up with inches and centigrade er.....centimetres

You're totally right about the temperature Master Suho I did mean Centigrade not Fahrenheit (whoops). Also I had no idea that US fl oz were different from UK fl oz this is the correct conversion there does not seem to be much in it though. 10 fl oz(UK) = 9.60759 fl oz(US) . I have also made a mistake with the granary bread what I thought was a type of flour turns out to be a commercial mixture for baking (whoops deux).

I've been known to bogart the odd thing or two NoJive, how did you guess, heh

Suho1004
Maniac (V) Mad Librarian

From: Seoul, Korea
Insane since: Apr 2002

IP logged posted posted 12-04-2008 03:22 Edit Quote
quote:

Tao said:

Having said that the Imperial system has persisted and I hope will still keep on going. Many places offer both metric and what I would call standard. I can only use and work in miles, feet and inches or pounds and ounces, or Fahrenheit and not Celsius, and I have no inclination to adjust my mental calibrations for any politician.



Is this just habit that makes you say this? Growing up in the United States, I obviously used the Imperial system exclusively and had no desire to learn the metric system. After moving to Korea, though, where everything is metric, I quickly got used to the new system. I still understand basic Imperial measurements (although I obviously had no idea that a fluid ounce was that much), but my basic frame of reference is metric.

I find it to be much more convenient, in part because everything is base 10, but also because metric units tend to be smaller, making them ideal for cooking and baking. When you have to measure small amounts of something by weight, it strikes me as a lot easier to weigh 5 grams than 0.176 ounces. The biggest advantage, though, is that 1 ml of water equals 1 gram of water, so you can measure your flour by weight rather than volume (a much more precise method of measuring) and figure out your percent hydration without having to do some weird conversion. How do you figure out hydration when you have one pound of flour (weight) and ten fluid ounces of water? There's probably a formula you can use, but it's definitely not as easy as 500 grams of flour and 350 milliliters of water (70% hydration).

Anyway, I don't want to turn this into a metric versus Imperial debate, but I wouldn't want to bake with Imperial measurements.

Thanks for the link on granary flour, by the way. I had no idea what it was. OK, back to bread! Bread is far more interesting than whatever measurement system we're using. After all, we're not sending probes to Mars!

;D


___________________________
Suho: www.liminality.org | Cell 270 | Sig Rotator | the Fellowship of Sup

Tao
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: The Pool Of Life
Insane since: Nov 2003

IP logged posted posted 12-04-2008 14:37 Edit Quote

Actually Suho, this thread has been inspired to a large extent by your good self. I read your article Bread and Running and it inspired me. As for the Imperial or Metric preferences well, I've pondered on this and I think I may have a slight tendency to be a cantankerous Tao with a little dollop of orneriness's.

Numbers do not come easy with me, they seldom add up without a struggle. So after years of tortuous learning the Imperial system by rote, I point blank refuse to clutter my mind with another system. I feel as if the Imperial way is more "organic" but probably what's happening is my mind is used to juggling these numbers. I think a yard is much more handsome than a metre, and who can deny the musicality of a Bushel and a

Tao
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: The Pool Of Life
Insane since: Nov 2003

IP logged posted posted 12-04-2008 14:40 Edit Quote

What weirdness!!
That last post did not include all the text I typed it just cut it off mid sentence.
I shall try again

Second attempt:

Actually Suho, this thread has been inspired to a large extent by your good self. I read your article Bread and Running and it inspired me. As for the Imperial or Metric preferences well, I've pondered on this and I think I may have a slight tendency to be a cantankerous Tao with a little dollop of orneriness's.

Numbers do not come easy with me, they seldom add up without a struggle. So after years of tortuous learning the Imperial system by rote, I point blank refuse to clutter my mind with another system. I feel as if the Imperial way is more "organic" but probably what's happening is my mind is used to juggling these numbers. I think a yard is much more handsome than a metre, and who can deny the musicality of a Bushel and a Peck?

I think this aversion to replacing a perfectly good system with a "new improved" method started when I was a young lad who having spent years learning the whole Mass in Latin had to relearn it in a rather prosaic English. The Mass was never the same again for me and my faith was severely damaged.
As for measurements in cooking I like to get the numbers but I don't stick with them. I use my eyes, nose and touch to help guide the process. I know you must do this too to some extent.

Actually the more I study physics the more I realise that there is really no such thing as a absolute number. By this I mean there is no exact pound in weight or gramme. There is no such thing as an exact day or year. It is all relative. I think the actual gramme weight is kept under guard in a vault in France or Belgium.

Aaaaaanwayyyyyy. I want to write more but I'll have to do that later as I'm off to bake bread. This time I'm going to take pictures (also inspired by Master Suho)



(Edited by Tao on 12-04-2008 14:56)

Tao
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: The Pool Of Life
Insane since: Nov 2003

IP logged posted posted 12-04-2008 14:41 Edit Quote

OK I've sorted it now ^^that^^ is the complete post now.
I'm just going to sit here and think about what I have done.


(Edited by Tao on 12-04-2008 15:02)

Tao
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: The Pool Of Life
Insane since: Nov 2003

IP logged posted posted 12-04-2008 14:45 Edit Quote

and a

(Edited by
Tao on 12-04-2008 14:46)

Tao
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: The Pool Of Life
Insane since: Nov 2003

IP logged posted posted 12-04-2008 14:47 Edit Quote

MEDIC
MEDIC!!
The Asylum is not publishing my words????


Those who look for monsters should look to it that
they do not become monsters. For when you gaze
long into the abyss, the abyss also gazes into you.

Tao
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: The Pool Of Life
Insane since: Nov 2003

IP logged posted posted 12-04-2008 14:49 Edit Quote

OK I've discovered why most posts where incomplete and it was my fault...human error put the [/url] in the wrong place and so the rest of the message after that was omitted.

Move along please nothing to see here



(Edited by Tao on 12-04-2008 14:50)

(Edited by Tao on 12-04-2008 14:54)

(Edited by Tao on 12-04-2008 14:59)

Tao
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: The Pool Of Life
Insane since: Nov 2003

IP logged posted posted 12-04-2008 14:52 Edit Quote

phfft

(Edited by Tao on 12-04-2008 14:53)

Suho1004
Maniac (V) Mad Librarian

From: Seoul, Korea
Insane since: Apr 2002

IP logged posted posted 12-05-2008 12:55 Edit Quote

You having fun in here, Tao?

quote:

Tao said:

So after years of tortuous learning the Imperial system by rote, I point blank refuse to clutter my mind with another system.



I can understand this. And the prospect of having to get used to the Imperial system again if we move back to the U.S. at some point is rather daunting.

quote:

As for measurements in cooking I like to get the numbers but I don't stick with them. I use my eyes, nose and touch to help guide the process. I know you must do this too to some extent.



Cooking, yes. I rely only loosely on measurements when I cook. Baking, though, is another story. When 10 ml of water can make the difference between a beautifully risen loaf and a collapsed mess, you'd better believe I get my measurements precise. I have a baking notebook in which I keep detailed records of all my experiments, complete with exact measurements and a detailed analysis of the process and aftermath. Depending on the complexity of the bread, I may go through anywhere from 3-6 iterations in my quest for the perfect recipe, or at least one close enough to perfect that I can settle on it (I still haven't settled on a recipe for pizza dough). Then again, I'm kind of obsessive.

Anyway, I'm looking forward to your further adventures with bread. I read up on that granary flour, and it sounds like it would be fun to bake with... I wonder if I can get my hands on some wheat for malting. Alas, Korea does not have quite as many baking resources as traditional bread nations. At least, I can get imported flour these days, though--Korean flour is designed more for noodles than bread.


___________________________
Suho: www.liminality.org | Cell 270 | Sig Rotator | the Fellowship of Sup

Tao
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: The Pool Of Life
Insane since: Nov 2003

IP logged posted posted 12-06-2008 15:59 Edit Quote

I wish I had read your post Master Suho before I had made my last batch. With my "near enough" and general approximations the bread was a little overcooked and did not rise fully after an hour. I did take photos which I'll post up later but I'm now going to make a couple of loaves with precise measurements.

You are so right about the importance of correct measurements when baking as opposed to cooking. So with imperial and metric measuring tools in hand I set off with renewed optimism to-wards the kitchen with Master Suho's words echoing in my mind.

Oh and if you would like it I can send you some granary flour for your experiments, just say the word.

Bake bake bake

Suho1004
Maniac (V) Mad Librarian

From: Seoul, Korea
Insane since: Apr 2002

IP logged posted posted 12-07-2008 06:29 Edit Quote
quote:

Tao said:

You are so right about the importance of correct measurements when baking as opposed to cooking. So with imperial and metric measuring tools in hand I set off with renewed optimism to-wards the kitchen with Master Suho's words echoing in my mind.



Glad to be of assistance.

quote:

Oh and if you would like it I can send you some granary flour for your experiments, just say the word.Bake bake bake



Oh dear... I hate putting people through trouble for my sake, but that is a tempting offer.

Of course, if I end up liking it too much, it could end up being an expensive taste. Hmm... I'll have to think about that.


___________________________
Suho: www.liminality.org | Cell 270 | Sig Rotator | the Fellowship of Sup

WebShaman
Lunatic (VI) Mad Scientist

From: The Happy Hunting Grounds...
Insane since: Mar 2001

IP logged posted posted 12-07-2008 13:11 Edit Quote

I love fresh baked bread.

My wife makes it, occasionally! What a treat.

Reminds me of when I was little and my mother would take a fresh baked loaf out of the wood oven...

The memory of the aroma always gets the juices in my mouth to watering!

*drools*

WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles

NoJive
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: The Land of one Headlight on.
Insane since: May 2001

IP logged posted posted 12-09-2008 14:49 Edit Quote

Tao

An opportunity to perhaps pick up some extra pocket change.

http://www.money.co.uk/article/1002202-15-pounds-a-loaf-for-britains-most-expensive-bread.htm

___________________________________________________________________________
?Privatize the Profits - Socialize the Losses.? Randi Rhodes

Suho1004
Maniac (V) Mad Librarian

From: Seoul, Korea
Insane since: Apr 2002

IP logged posted posted 12-10-2008 09:38 Edit Quote

That's insane... but it sounds like some pretty good bread. Hmm.... maybe I should try to bake some cheese bread myself. Oh, crap, now I can't get it out of my head. Must... have... cheese bread!




___________________________
Suho: www.liminality.org | Cell 270 | Sig Rotator | the Fellowship of Sup

Tao
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: The Pool Of Life
Insane since: Nov 2003

IP logged posted posted 12-11-2008 01:43 Edit Quote

Sorry for the delays in updating the bread thread (poet)
I wished for more work and I got it. Even in the freezing cold I have gardens that need my attention for the next few weeks so I'm getting home late, defrosting and all that good stuff. Not much time for perusing the web.
Hopefully I will to-morrow so I will post up some photos of the latest few trys, one not so good, one much better. I've also got myself some real unadulterated wholemeal flour and some real live bakers yeast to try to take it to the next level.
I was going to try to work into this " For Tao shall not live by bread alone" but my head hurts and my molecules want to go to bed
Nighty night

Suho1004
Maniac (V) Mad Librarian

From: Seoul, Korea
Insane since: Apr 2002

IP logged posted posted 12-11-2008 13:31 Edit Quote

By the way, just thought I'd mention that I did go ahead and make the cheese bread. I used a fairly simple base dough--just flour, water, salt, and yeast--spiced up a bit with the addition of small amounts of wholemeal and corn flour. To that I added Brie cheese and rosemary. Didn't get quite the oven spring I was hoping for, probably because I proofed it for too long (I was doing something else and lost track of time... this is why I bought a kitchen timer, now if only I could remember to use it), but it still came out nicely. Very tasty, too. I'll see about posting a photo here soon, although at some point I imagine I'll do a more detailed entry on my site.

While eating dinner, I got another idea: citron buns. Kind of like hot cross buns, but with citron instead of orange, and a citron glaze. I've got to wait until I finish off the Brie and rosemary bread before I start making something else, though.





[Edit: OK, so I couldn't wait... I had to find a photo to post right now!



I just wish there was a way of posting taste, aroma, and texture...]
___________________________
Suho: www.liminality.org | Cell 270 | Sig Rotator | the Fellowship of Sup

(Edited by Suho1004 on 12-11-2008 13:46)

WebShaman
Lunatic (VI) Mad Scientist

From: The Happy Hunting Grounds...
Insane since: Mar 2001

IP logged posted posted 12-11-2008 14:52 Edit Quote
quote:

Suho1004 said:

I just wish there was a way of posting taste, aroma, and texture...]



TP!

We want that feature enabled IMMEDIATELY!

Oh, look at that bread! Slurrpp, drooool!

WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles

Lord_Fukutoku
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: San Antonio
Insane since: Jul 2002

IP logged posted posted 12-16-2008 16:08 Edit Quote

My wife and I got a bread machine for our wedding a couple months ago. Finally got things back into somewhat of a routine around the house and pulled it out of the box a couple weeks ago to give it a shot and see what kind of mess we could make.

Now before you post some kind of "bread-snob" () remark about us using a bread machine... I know we're cheating and we're not actually "making" bread... To you I say "pffffffft"

Big thumbs up to making your own bread (even if you cheat and have a machine do the mixing and kneading). We've only made a couple loaves, and they turned out great. Can't wait to try some more recipes.


Anyone else cheat and not knead by hand?

--

Any sufficiently advanced bug is indistinguishable from a feature.

hyperbole
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Madison, Indiana
Insane since: Aug 2000

IP logged posted posted 12-16-2008 20:24 Edit Quote

I got Bobbins a bread machine about twelve or fourteen years ago. Before that she made bread by hand, but, now we make it more often and we have more variety in the kinds of bread because it's not as much work to do. It's hard to remember, but I think the bread from the machine is almost as good as that made by hand. It sure is good, anyway.

.



-- not necessarily stoned... just beautiful.

Suho1004
Maniac (V) Mad Librarian

From: Seoul, Korea
Insane since: Apr 2002

IP logged posted posted 12-17-2008 01:36 Edit Quote
quote:

Lord_Fukutoku said:

Now before you post some kind of "bread-snob" () remark about us using a bread machine... I know we're cheating and we're not actually "making" bread... To you I say "pffffffft" Big thumbs up to making your own bread (even if you cheat and have a machine do the mixing and kneading).



I would be the last person on earth to look down on your for using a machine to do your mixing and kneading (heck, I use instant yeast--I'm no bread snob). I have kneaded dough by hand, and I think everyone should try it at least once, but when it comes down to it the machine just saves time. Professional bakers use dough mixers for the same reason.

Now, it is true that the intensity of the kneading, the length of the kneading, the length of the autolyse period, etc., all have an effect on the final dough. With specialized dough mixing machines, you can adjust all of these settings. Unfortunately, I don't have a specialized machine, just a regular bread machine, so I have to get creative. Still, there are some types of dough that are out of reach for me (like the extra wet dough used to make Roman-style pizza, because the machine can not knead it fast enough or long enough). Most of your bread doughs, though, will be fine in the dough cycle of a bread machine.

If you have to choose between eating more homemade bread kneaded by machine and eating less homemade bread because you don't have the time or energy to knead by hand... well, that's not really a choice now, is it? And I would agree with hyperbole: having tried both methods, I can say that machine-kneaded bread is just as good as hand-kneaded bread.

Still waiting for news on Tao's bread exploits...

[Edit: Did you know that there are some breads that are impossible to make without a kneading machine? Ciabatta dough, for example, is so wet that it is impossible to knead it by hand. Same goes for the Roman pizza dough I mentioned above, actually. I decided to try it in my machine one day and realized that it wasn't kneading fast enough, so I took it out, put it in a bowl, and tried whipping it around with my fists. My arms almost fell off after two minutes, and I never did get the required consistency. Still baked the pizza, though. ]


___________________________
Suho: www.liminality.org | Cell 270 | Sig Rotator | the Fellowship of Sup

(Edited by Suho1004 on 12-17-2008 01:39)

Tao
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: The Pool Of Life
Insane since: Nov 2003

IP logged posted posted 12-18-2008 02:48 Edit Quote

Exploits delivered to your door sir
I have been rather remiss and too slow updating this thread I realise, it's just the time of year for me here, 'tis madness without out a doubt. Worry ye not, I shall desist from itemising my travails and get straight to the bread.

I have made six more loaves in three batches of two, all of them hand made. The first batch made with a seeded flour mix produced for machine or hand bake, turned out rather well I thought.


Righto says I, I'm virtually an expert now I shall try my hand at wholemeal flour with live yeast. The yeast kindly given to me by the bakers in Asda, gratis. One of the central reasons for my learning all this bread making malarkey is to try to produce a loaf of bread that is free from any nasty additives, and just oozes with health. So this one is just wholemeal flour, a teaspoon of salt, a little sugar to liquidise and boost the yeast and ½ oz of margarine.



This ^^ attempt tasted OK but I felt like I perhaps had not let it rise enough. So in this latest attempt I decided to give the bread two periods of proving. I also had the bright idea of not using the teaspoonful or so of salt listed in the ingredients. I used a little honey mixed in warm water to slightly glaze the top of the loaf, and help the sprinkle of pumpkin seeds adhere to the bread.

The thing is, even though this batch does not look as appetising as the other two with its flat top, it tasted rather good. I wont say great because I slightly overcooked it, something to do with using a fan oven.

The Great Spirit of Yuletide (Yule is 21st of December) is bringing us a bread making machine I have heard on good authority and I have no qualms about using that either. What I don't particularly like is the flour mix I have seen sold specifically for bread machines. It has a lot of "added" stuff like preservatives "E"s and the like that I am trying to eliminate in my life.

The goal now is to establish a good basic wholemeal bread making recipe for myself so I can learn it down to a tee, no problem. Then I plan to experiment with that by adding nuts, perhaps fruits and whatever else that may work.
Oh yes I aslo want to get a good unleavened loaf down pat too, a soda bread perhaps.

Nearly forgot...Suho that bread looks beautiful I can almost taste it.


Those who look for monsters should look to it that
they do not become monsters. For when you gaze
long into the abyss, the abyss also gazes into you.


(Edited by Tao on 12-18-2008 03:10)

SleepingWolf
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From:
Insane since: Jul 2006

IP logged posted posted 12-18-2008 03:45 Edit Quote

Looks excellent. I can almost smell it here on the other side of the pond.

Can you make the other type of bread too?



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Suho1004
Maniac (V) Mad Librarian

From: Seoul, Korea
Insane since: Apr 2002

IP logged posted posted 12-18-2008 04:52 Edit Quote

Great shots of great loaves, Tao! Worth the wait!

I hear you on eliminating the additives and crap that comes in store-bought breads and even in the flour mixes. I've never used a flour mix--it's always been from scratch for me.

As for getting a good rise out of your loaves, here are somethings to consider:

  • Some breads do need longer to proof, but you don't want to let them proof too long, or you might lose the oven spring.
  • Wholemeal flour doesn't have as much gluten as bread flour, so you might want to try adding a little wheat gluten to give the dough more structure
  • Wholemeal flour also absorbs more water than bread flour, so you may need to increase the water content a bit. The more water, the more active the yeast will be--if the yeast is too active, a low-gluten dough may not be able to support itself and collapse, so you'll have to experiment there as well.
  • Salt is kind of essential to bread, both for flavor and for regulating the activity of the yeast. Too much salt is not good, but you should have a little. If you think the loaves are not rising enough, you should let the dough ferment longer rather than taking out the salt.



Since you have expressed interest in healthy loaves, can I share a recipe of my own invention? I call it "Health Nut Bread."

(All the measurements are in metric, but you should be able to figure out the ratios if you want to use Imperial. Also, I generally do everything by weight--I put the pan on a scale and just add the ingredients one by one.)

Water: 325 ml
Vegetable oil: 24 g
Honey: 38 g
Salt: 4 g (5 ml/1 tsp)
Rolled oats: 50 g
Wholemeal flour: 275 g
Rye flour: 100g
Buckwheat flour: 25 g
Wheat germ (toasted): 25 g
Flax seed (crushed): 25 g
Vital wheat gluten: 25 g
Instant yeast: 8 g (10 ml / 2 tsp)

Chopped walnuts: 50 g
Sunflower seeds: 50 g

The walnuts and sunflower seeds should be added after the dough has taken shape. If you don't have buckwheat flour, you can just increase the rye flour content by 25 g--neither have any gluten, so there should be little effect on the dough. If you have buckwheat flour, though, I'd recommend it--it's got a nice, earthy flavor to it. This recipe uses instant yeast, but you can substitute fresh yeast (not "live"--that would imply that the other types are dead ) if you'd like. Instant yeast is much more potent than fresh yeast, so you'll need three times as much fresh yeast (by weight, not volume).

The dough doesn't need that long to ferment/proof. My apartment is usually very warm this time of year, so I give it an hour to ferment and about 40 minutes to proof. Your mileage may vary.

Depending on my mood, I usually shape the dough into either two bâtards or six mini-bâtards (the latter I use for sandwiches). I brush them with water (helps make the crust crispier) and sometimes sprinkle them with something, depending on my mood--favorites include more toasted wheat germ, more crushed flax seed, more rolled oats, or wholemeal flour. Lastly I score them and bake them for 20 minutes at 200 degrees Celsius--the time may be different for your oven, of course, but the temperature should be good. My rule of thumb is high heat/short duration for simpler/whiter/higher gluten dough and lower heat/longer duration for "heavy" doughs like this one.

So, there you have it. I've been working on this recipe for years now, experimenting with various ingredients and ratios, and I think I've finally settled on a recipe I'm satisfied with. Even if you don't follow this recipe, maybe it will give you some ideas.


___________________________
Suho: www.liminality.org | Cell 270 | Sig Rotator | the Fellowship of Sup

Tao
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: The Pool Of Life
Insane since: Nov 2003

IP logged posted posted 12-19-2008 15:47 Edit Quote

Thanks for the recipe Suho I shall keep that on file and use in the near future as I'll need to find a good source for some of the ingredients namely:
Rolled oats:
Rye flour:
Buckwheat flour:
Wheat germ (toasted):
Flax seed (crushed):
Vital wheat gluten:
I know there must be some shops out there that sell these ingredients I just don't know of any near me. Still, this is all part of the journey, healthy living and a healthy diet will require some planning. Once I've got a reliable source or two I can see myself baking like a man possessed.

On another note I'm delighted to find that the proposed plans of the EU to "enforce metrication" by 2009 in the UK have been thwarted (what a lovely looking word).
Group claims EU imperial victory
I'm not one of the mentioned "Metric Martyrs", nor do I belong to any kind of group campaigning for the Imperial way to be re-established in schools. It's just my personal preference, my neural networks have been formed around the Imperial measurements and I intend to keep it that way.

Suho1004
Maniac (V) Mad Librarian

From: Seoul, Korea
Insane since: Apr 2002

IP logged posted posted 12-20-2008 11:15 Edit Quote

Good luck finding the ingredients! Although if it turns out that you can't get your hands on something, maybe we could do a swap. The only ingredient in that list that I can imagine you possibly not being able to find is buckwheat flour, but even that's questionable (as in, I think you'll probably be able to find it).


___________________________
Suho: www.liminality.org | Cell 270 | Sig Rotator | the Fellowship of Sup

Tao
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: The Pool Of Life
Insane since: Nov 2003

IP logged posted posted 12-21-2008 15:26 Edit Quote

Just a quick question for those who use or have used a bread making machine.
We've just received one as a Yule present and I'm rather bashful to say that I'm finding it hard to understand and follow the instructions. In said instructions it does not really mention how the dough is to prove. Can it really be a case of adding the ingredients switching it on and three or four hours later voilà, a loaf?

This is what the advert guys seem to imply for starters there is a rather large mixing paddle in the centre of the bowl that would leave a large hole in the centre bottom of the loaf. As I say this is just a quick question as I intend to experiment with the machine I'm just asking for others experience...please.


Those who look for monsters should look to it that
they do not become monsters. For when you gaze
long into the abyss, the abyss also gazes into you.

NoJive
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: The Land of one Headlight on.
Insane since: May 2001

IP logged posted posted 12-21-2008 16:14 Edit Quote

Yup, it's magic like. =)

You may be wise to start with one of the basic recommended recipes but yes you simply add the ingredients and walk away. Depending on the type of bread you'll be eating it in about an hour.

The bread does end up with a bit of a gash from the paddle but a loaf or two and you'll have learnt how to minimalize the damage.

A friend uses the machine soley for the kneeding & proofing/rising prefering the results of an oven bake. Here's someone else who prefers the oven.
http://blog.masslive.com/valleyvictuals/2008/03/bread_machines_what_are_they_g.html

She who must be obeyed is home today, we are in fact sort of snowed in, so I will ask ever so kindly, if she can post up the recipe I mentioned. It does I think fall into the category of soda bread.

Hovis, that little heavy brick , is probably my most favorite of breads but it's a pretty scarce commodity, in fact I've not been able to find it in years. Toasted crispy-like...almost burnt ....buttered, slathered in real maple syrup .Oh my!

___________________________________________________________________________
?Privatize the Profits - Socialize the Losses.? Randi Rhodes

Tao
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: The Pool Of Life
Insane since: Nov 2003

IP logged posted posted 12-21-2008 17:01 Edit Quote

Thanks NJ I'm going to try it over the next few days. I've just been a bit baffled by the instructions supplied. At first, second and third glance it looked far too complimacated to believe.
This is the model we've been given Panasonic Bread maker. I like the "Hovis" type of bread too though I do prefer a nuttier bread. Do you mean you have not been able to get the bread or the bread mix? I'm sure I've seen a "Hovis" bread mix on my travels.

NoJive
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: The Land of one Headlight on.
Insane since: May 2001

IP logged posted posted 12-22-2008 00:01 Edit Quote

From Caroline. Note the bit at the end about going green.

Monastery Bread makes 2 loaves

Ingredients:

2 cups white flour
4 cups whole wheat flour of 12 grain flour
2 handfuls each of the following
--sesame seeds
--sunflower seeds
--pumpkin seeds
--slivered almonds
4 tbsp. wheat bran
2 tbsp. brown sugar
2 tsp salt
2 tsp baking soda
4 cups buttermilk


Method:


Heat oven to 350F
Grease and flour 2 bread pans (smaller narrow ones if possible) Mine are 12? x 3 ½?

Mix all dry ingredients together, add the buttermilk, and stir well. Mixture will be thick.
Spoon into bread pans
Bake at 350F for 55 minutes.

You can add any combination of nuts and seeds you like. Don?t be fooled into thinking your loaf has gone off?the pumpkin seeds will turn a very bright blue/green the day after being baked.

Enjoy!!



AS for the Hovis. I picked up a loaf a few years ago but it was all wrong to begin with. It was just like a regular big fluffy loaf of whatever.If it's not the little brick loaf... then what's the point. =)

___________________________________________________________________________
?Privatize the Profits - Socialize the Losses.? Randi Rhodes

Suho1004
Maniac (V) Mad Librarian

From: Seoul, Korea
Insane since: Apr 2002

IP logged posted posted 12-22-2008 16:24 Edit Quote

Bread machines really are quite simple. Like NJ said, you just put the ingredients in and walk away (although you may want to stick around and watch the machine knead, just for kicks).

I am another one of those who prefers the oven for baking. In fact, I don't even use the machine for proofing, because I find that, if anything, there is a tendency to over-proof loaves rather than under-proof them. I like to have as much control over the process as possible, which means my dough comes out right after the kneading.

NJ: that Monastery Bread looks great! I might have a hard time getting my hands on wheat bran and buttermilk, though.


___________________________
Suho: www.liminality.org | Cell 270 | Sig Rotator | the Fellowship of Sup

Lord_Fukutoku
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: San Antonio
Insane since: Jul 2002

IP logged posted posted 12-22-2008 22:11 Edit Quote

Yep, same with our machine. Pour ingredients in (wet stuff on bottom, dry stuff on top, it does make a difference), hit the magic combination of the three buttons (or however many it has) to select the type of work you want (quick bread, basic, dough only, etc, etc... I think ours has 8 'functions') and then the crust (light, medium, or dark), and maybe a delay for it to start.

Then leave and come back in a hour or two when it beeps, turn the bucket over, let the loaf cool for a bit, and chow down

There will be a hole/notch in the bottom where the paddle is, but it's much smaller than you might think (it doesn't move while it's baking, so the bread just fills in around it).

I'd like to start using it just to get dough ready, then bake it in the oven as NoJive mentioned, but I haven't tried yet. I'd like to get a good rye recipe figured out first

If yours has the little window at the top, it's really pretty neat watching the paddle beat the dough around when you would normally be kneading it.
Also, as NoJive said, there should be a list of recommended recipes with the book that came with it, and I'd suggest starting with one of the basic ones there to get a feel for the machine.
I think after the first loaf you do in the machine, you'll see why I was hesitant above to say we were "making bread" with it


[edit: well pffft, there were already posts on the 2nd page here that I didn't even see
How is the magic bread machine working out for you so far Tao?


--

Any sufficiently advanced bug is indistinguishable from a feature.

(Edited by Lord_Fukutoku on 12-22-2008 22:14)

eyezaer
Lunatic (VI) Mad Scientist

From: the Psychiatric Ward
Insane since: Sep 2000

IP logged posted posted 12-23-2008 04:38 Edit Quote

this..... exactly why i love this place.

I have been learning of bread making this past fall. One of my friends started out making it by hand. I got excited, ate his bread, then helped him make a bread that resembled cake. I was hooked.

I am not the reverent type. I make it by hand. I make it by bread maker. I love it.

Tao, i understand your skepticism. However if the ingredients are layered correctly in the bread maker, it can sit for hours before it starts to make bread. I regularly set mine up at night time with a honey oat mix to be done 8 hours later. On a cold morning there is nothing better than waking up to fresh baked bread and the house smelling all warm and yummy.

my mouth is watering. Yes, yes, aesthetically, it is not a pretty loaf of bread. The bottom has a gouge it in, as does the side of the loafs, and they resemble squarish mushrooms, but hey. Its fresh bread. And all I had to do was put the water in first and the yeast in last.

Also, there is no need for a specific bread making flower. all purpose works just fine. And the chemicals... man, i know they ain't the best for the body, but dang. Chemicals are good. I have been using "better for bread" flower as a base flower so far, but yah. I kinda like the chemicals.

On the other hand, 2 days ago I made a loaf of white bread (no chemicals) with poppy seed, flax seed, and toasted sesame seeds. I think the mix was around 3 cups of flower and a little less than a quarter cup of each of the seeds. It was dang good. No bread maker involved.

home made bread butter and say a 1554 for dinner? I am not sure college life is supposed to be this good.

Lord_Fukutoku
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: San Antonio
Insane since: Jul 2002

IP logged posted posted 12-23-2008 20:31 Edit Quote
quote:

eyezaer said:

they resemble squarish mushrooms


Yea, that's the one part I'm having trouble getting past using the bread machine... I need a loaf of bread that I can make sandwiches with

--

Any sufficiently advanced bug is indistinguishable from a feature.

Tao
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: The Pool Of Life
Insane since: Nov 2003

IP logged posted posted 12-24-2008 15:56 Edit Quote

I'm making notes of all these recipes for future use thanks to allthebodies who've contributed.
I haven't used the bread maker yet but plan to do so in the next day or two, thanks for the reassurance about the hole the paddle makes, they don't mention that in the sales blurb.
As you say eyezaer, they may not be pretty loaves, but given a choice we'd rather have tasty than good looking.
Righto I'm off to wrap pressies.

Tao
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: The Pool Of Life
Insane since: Nov 2003

IP logged posted posted 12-25-2008 22:16 Edit Quote

Whoops!
Too much coffee give seems to give me a very clickety finger.

(Edited by Tao on 12-25-2008 22:20)

Tao
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: The Pool Of Life
Insane since: Nov 2003

IP logged posted posted 12-25-2008 22:17 Edit Quote

Here are the results of the first loaf made with the bread machine. It is a very different process quite apart from not being "hands on". Our machine seems to have a minimum time of five hours, but I have to say I have not studied all the functions fully yet so there may be a quicker pre-set.

After I'd loaded up the bowl with the flour mixture, water and butter and closed the lid, I set the programme for wholemeal and switched it on. I spent nearly an hour hanging around in the kitchen waiting for some sign or sound of action but noticed nothing. Admittedly I did wander away a few times but not for long. Anyhow, after 1½ hours, convinced that I must have missed out a crucial step in my plans I opened the lid and lo... the dough had already been mixed and it was now in the process of proving, I quickly closed the lid again and decided not to check it again till the time was up and the beeps began.

Next step for me is to use a more traditional method with basic wholemeal flour rather than the bread mix I used here. All in all I'm happy with the results.





Lord_Fukutoku
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: San Antonio
Insane since: Jul 2002

IP logged posted posted 12-29-2008 17:13 Edit Quote

Looks pretty good How does it compare (taste/texture/etc) to a handmade loaf? Having not tried a handmade loaf myself, I'd be interested in what differences you noticed.

Santa brought us a couple books on breadmaking and a couple loaf pans (maybe he was browsing the threads here ), so I'm itching to try and loaf without the machine doing the work.

--

Any sufficiently advanced bug is indistinguishable from a feature.

Suho1004
Maniac (V) Mad Librarian

From: Seoul, Korea
Insane since: Apr 2002

IP logged posted posted 12-31-2008 10:41 Edit Quote

Looks good! Glad to see you getting some good use out of your bread machine.


___________________________
Suho: www.liminality.org | Cell 270 | Sig Rotator | the Fellowship of Sup

countryboy
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: somers, new york
Insane since: Dec 2000

IP logged posted posted 01-03-2009 20:48 Edit Quote

Tao, those are great pictures. Congratulations.

I bake bread weekly, and just took my three loaves of whole wheat out of the oven.

If you guys want to learn more, and it can become obessive very easily, you may wish to go to
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/
for more info on technique, etc.

Strange thing that so many people on that web site and this are technical people and guys......

country boy..

countryboy
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: somers, new york
Insane since: Dec 2000

IP logged posted posted 01-03-2009 21:16 Edit Quote

OK folks, I am a slow learner but after 2 yrs. have come up with a sure fire recipe that works every time...It is from the folks at
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/


Memo's Brown Bread; Yield: 2 Loaves

envelope active dry yeast.... 1 envel.
warm water (110° - 115°F)... 1/4 cup
potato water**.......... 2 ½ cups 5 cups
salt ................................1 Tablespoon
sugar.......................... 3 Tablespoons
shortening.................. 1/4 Cup
all-purpose flour.............. 3 ½- 4 ½cups
Hodgson Mill graham flour** 1 ½ cups 3 cups

**And be sure to look carefully because the bag says Whole Wheat Graham but the "whole wheat" part is in larger letters and so it is harder to read the "graham" part underneath. Graham flour, I've read, is a little bit healthier than regular whole wheat

Sprinkle yeast on 1/4 cup warm water. Stir to dissolve and set aside.

For the potatoe:*I peel and slice, very thinly, one small potato and boil in 4 (5) cups of water until very well done ? usually takes about 15 minutes because of the size of the slices. Then mash the potato in the water and usually the remaining water with the potato leaves the exact amount of liquid you need for the recipe ? the 2 1/2 cups or 5(when doubling.) If you need to, add a bit more water if you don?t have enough.

Place sugar, salt, and shortening in mixing bowl and pour hot spud water over this and cool. The potato water should be about the temp of a baby?s bottle, warm to the wrist, otherwise it can kill the yeast.

By Hand:
Stir 2 1/2 cups of all-purpose flour into bowl containing salt, sugar & potato/potato water to make a thin batter.

Add yeast and beat well.
Then add 1 1/2 cups graham flour and mix well. Stir in remaining all-purpose flour - 1 to 2 cups ? until it can be handled on a floured board or counter.

Knead in more flour until you have a smooth ball that no longer sticks to counter.

By Stand Mixer: Stir 2 1/2 cups of all-purpose flour into bowl containing salt, sugar & potato/potato water to make a thin batter. Add yeast and beat well. Then add 1 1/2 cups graham flour and mix well.

Stir in remaining all-purpose flour - 1 to 2 cups - to make a dough that leaves the sides of the bowl.

Knead/mix until smooth and elastic, about 7 - 10 minutes.

Place in greased bowl; turn dough over to grease top.

Cover and let rise in warm place until it doubles, about 1 1/2 hours.
Punch down. Turn onto board and divide in half; round up each half to make a ball. Cover and let rest 10 minutes.

Shape into loaves and place in 2 greased loaf pans. Cover with cloth or sheet of plastic wrap and let rise until dough reaches top of pan on sides and the top of loaf is well rounded above pan, about 1 1/4 hours.

Bake at 350 degrees for 45 minutes, rotating half-way through if necessary. Cover loosely with sheet of foil the last 20 minutes, if necessary, to prevent excessive browning. Makes 2 loaves.

Brush melted butter over top of loaves upon removing from oven. Allow to cool.

**You must use Hodgson Mill, whole wheat graham flour to be authentic to Memo?s bread, or if there is another brand that is exactly as Hodgson Mill. Hodgson Mill is the only brand of graham flour I?ve found so far that is the correct coarseness, color of grain and flavor. Other flours can be used but the entire flavor and texture of the bread is completely changed from what Memo used to make. This is a taupe colored wheat bread not golden as with regular whole wheat. It is beautiful and makes the best toast!

(Edited by countryboy on 01-03-2009 21:18)

countryboy
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: somers, new york
Insane since: Dec 2000

IP logged posted posted 01-03-2009 21:23 Edit Quote

deleted by countryboy.......

(Edited by countryboy on 01-03-2009 21:25)

Suho1004
Maniac (V) Mad Librarian

From: Seoul, Korea
Insane since: Apr 2002

IP logged posted posted 01-05-2009 13:03 Edit Quote

I don't know that graham flour is necessarily more healthy than whole wheat flour, it just has a coarser texture. It has the same components as whole wheat (wholemeal) flour; the only difference is that the wheat germ and bran are separated from the rest of the wheat, ground separately, then incorporated back into the white flour. So I don't see how it would make any difference in terms of healthiness.

I realize you probably copied the recipe and explanation straight from the site, but I thought I would mention it.

(Alas, like many other specialty flours, I have never seen graham flour in Korea--let alone Hodgson Mill. )


___________________________
Suho: www.liminality.org | Cell 270 | Sig Rotator | the Fellowship of Sup

countryboy
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: somers, new york
Insane since: Dec 2000

IP logged posted posted 01-05-2009 23:01 Edit Quote

I do not believe that I said or implied that

quote:

graham flour is necessarily more healthy than whole wheat flour




but rather that it is different from the regular whole wheat flour.

I have made this recipe about 6 times and find it fool proof. and find that regular whole wheat is far more coarse and granular than graham flour ....at least with the Hodgson brand of flour. My wife has IBS or irritable bowel syndrome, is lactose intolerant, and does not seem able to digest regular whole wheat flour. However, she does find that this graham flour is different and more easily digested.

I guess each to his own.

Suggest that people bake the bread for 60 mins. rather than the 45 that I originally put in.

(Edited by countryboy on 01-05-2009 23:04)

Suho1004
Maniac (V) Mad Librarian

From: Seoul, Korea
Insane since: Apr 2002

IP logged posted posted 01-06-2009 05:02 Edit Quote
quote:

countryboy said:

I do not believe that I said or implied that "graham flour is necessarily more healthy than whole wheat flour" but rather that it is different from the regular whole wheat flour.



Sorry, I didn't mean to step on any toes, but you did say that...

quote:

countryboy said:

Graham flour, I've read, is a little bit healthier than regular whole wheat



Or, at least, it was part of your post. I wasn't sure whether this was something you were saying or whether you got it straight from the website. I didn't know that graham flour was more easily digestible by people with IBS, which is reason enough to use it in your case. I was just saying that it's not necessarily healthier.

But it's all good. I'm not trying to be a nit-picky jerk here. If I ever do get my hands on some graham flour, I certainly want to give that recipe a try.


___________________________
Suho: www.liminality.org | Cell 270 | Sig Rotator | the Fellowship of Sup

(Edited by Suho1004 on 01-06-2009 05:04)

WebShaman
Lunatic (VI) Mad Scientist

From: The Happy Hunting Grounds...
Insane since: Mar 2001

IP logged posted posted 01-07-2009 00:50 Edit Quote

My wife made chilli-corn bread yesterday...and it was delicious!

I ate half the loaf in one sitting!

WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles

countryboy
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: somers, new york
Insane since: Dec 2000

IP logged posted posted 01-07-2009 02:39 Edit Quote

I stand corrected.

NoJive
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: The Land of one Headlight on.
Insane since: May 2001

IP logged posted posted 02-11-2009 22:26 Edit Quote

Interesting idea... and it's about a 40 minute drive from where I live.

quote:
Grow Your Own Bread!
The idea is simple: Hand over $65, and McLeod and Walker will lease you a 200-square-foot slice of Makaria Farm, their 10-acre organic spread near the town of Duncan, in the fertile Cowichan Valley. They'll also give you a grain seed of your choice, seminars with guest experts, and basic infrastructure support, including irrigation and tools. ("Yes, we have a scythe!" notes the website.)



http://thetyee.ca/Life/2009/02/11/GrowBread/

___________________________________________________________________________
?Privatize the Profits - Socialize the Losses.? Randi Rhodes



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