Topic: On Darwin’s Birthday, Only 4 in 10 Believe in Evolution (in the USA)

On Darwin?s Birthday, Only 4 in 10 Believe in Evolution

Wow

I wonder what the breakdown would be for other countries.

WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles

(Edited by WebShaman on 02-12-2009 09:57)

To be fair, that's a sensationalist title. The more important value is 75% people don't *not* believe in evolution. That is to say, those who think evolution is wrong make up a 25% minority.

-S

The problem with that data is that most people who think they don't believe in the theory of evolution don't know what it is.

Evolution is not a theory of creation, despite the recent "intelligent design" vs "evolution" idiocy.

I think you'll find most people do believe in evolution, as long as you don't ask them "Do you believe in the theory of evolution?" - ask them instead "Do you believe vestigial structures exist in animals? (e.g. human "tail" bone). Belief in vestigiality is belief in evolution. Show me the normally formed person that doesn't believe they have a tail bone, and that it has no current purpose for humans, and I will show you someone who is not particularly sane in many other ways as well.

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reisio said:

ask them instead "Do you believe vestigial structures exist in animals?"

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Heh. I think if you were to ask most people that question they would just stare at you blankly until you went away.


___________________________
Suho: www.liminality.org | Cell 270 | Sig Rotator | the Fellowship of Sup

People who know what the word 'vestigial' means, then. You could just ask if they think their tail bone serves any purpose for a tacit understanding.

WE GOT A TAIL BONE BECAUSE GOD PUT ONE THERE. END OF STORY.











heretic.

-S

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reisio said:

Evolution is not a theory of creation, despite the recent "intelligent design" vs "evolution" idiocy.

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This has came up a few times on a podcast I listen to. The other day I actually was talking with someone and they made the claim that "evolution still has to have a "higher being" to put it into place. Wow...talk about trying to make things work in your favor.

Later,

C:\

We have a tail bone so the FSM has a place to apply it's noodly appendages when dishing out gravity!

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twItch^ said:

WE GOT A TAIL BONE BECAUSE GOD PUT ONE THERE. END OF STORY.


heretic.-S

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Classic.

WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles

here is a chart of acceptance of the Evolution Theory, but it is from 2005
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/bigphotos/21329204.html

Again, not the best question to have asked. A lot of people do not even consider humans to be "animals" (mostly because they probably never thought about it, or were raised to just think that a 'human' can't be an 'animal'), and probably don't realize the closest ancestral "earlier species of animal" was hardly distinguishable from ourselves, and the species before that hardly distinguishable from them.

The headline, "Evolution Less Accepted in U.S.", is probably accurate, but acceptance and belief are not the same thing. I, for example, believe a cheap mountain bike is technically a bicycle, but I do not accept it as one.

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reisio said:

People who know what the word 'vestigial' means, then. You could just ask if they think their tail bone serves any purpose for a tacit understanding.

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Well, that's the whole problem...a huge portion of the people who "don't beleive" in evolution are the same people who wouldn't know what vestigal means, or how it applies to evolution!

"intelligent design" vs "evolution" ...this is the same thing but one anwsers the by "Whom" and the other the "How"..

"vestigial structures " ....i dont think I have that...

~Sig coming soon~

I can't help to interject here, but what is to 'believe' or not 'believe'? Evolution is not a religion. Evolution is not a cult. Evolution is observable and demonstrable. When an entire population of Ash Moth turns from predominantly grey to black within a couple of generations because of the Industrial Revolution (and the blackening of the bark of their favourite trees), evolution is obvious.

The theory of evolution, esp. in regard to The Origin of Species, is not a religion or belief-set either. It is a theory which bears consideration, and for which the definitive proof is still sought. The Big Bang is a theory. The Higgs Boson is a theoretical particle. These things don't require belief. In fact, belief would be redundant.

This lack of definition troubles me terribly. I'm adding to my list of ridiculous things that lower my estimation of humanity, along with ludicrous science-vs.-religion arguments, the furor surrounding Joe Cells, Scientology, etc.

I could go on. o.o

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binary said:

"intelligent design" vs "evolution" ...this is the same thing

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No, no it isn't... FFS. Evolution is not a theory of creation. [Intelligent design, historically, is also not a theory of creation (nor explanation of variation in species)]. They are not explanations of the same thing at all. Regardless of which of the two sides you're on, if you participate in the 'intelligent design' vs 'evolution' debate, you are a fool.

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reisio said:

if you participate in the 'intelligent design' vs 'evolution' debate, you are a fool.

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not following you there.

Later,

C:\

I rest my case. ()

^^...so I guess u r a fool too by the way do fools evolve or where they intelligently designed....

~Sig coming soon~

Nah, they were (un)Intelligently designed...

WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles

^^

I think that's what you said about Microsoft...

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reisio said:

if you participate in the 'intelligent design' vs 'evolution' debate, you are a fool.

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I agree and I have had my share of foolishness in the past but will proudly continue to be foolish in the future. How could I give up on advocating my views on what I believe to be one of the most fascinating subjects that there is.

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reisio said:

I rest my case. ()

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calling me a fool?

Later,

C:\

Nah, he is saying that you were unintelligently designed!

WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles

May the great FSM lay his noodly appendages upon you in forgiveness.

Prego!

(which is analogous to Amen for FSM followers)



WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles

I thought the following link might be of interest - a view from 1925 - evolution 'scientifically' debunked!

It makes amusing reading. What's sad is that this probably accurately represents many a contemporary view, too:

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The teaching of evolution promotes atheism and is a tool in the hands of communistic agitators in some of our great schools.
This presents a clarion call to reach young people with the truth before they become irretrievably ensnared.

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(Edited by White Hawk on 03-04-2009 12:51)

looks like great fun

I guess I am irretrievably ensnared

WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles

Belated question: what the heck is a Joe Cell?


___________________________
Suho: www.liminality.org | Cell 270 | Sig Rotator | the Fellowship of Sup

Welll...ermmm...where they lock up the common Joes?

WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles

Perhaps Joe Cell Devices

Tao's got it in one - a 'free energy' device consisting of 'orgone charged' water in a series of concentric metal shells which, upon the application of a charge (conditioning) and appropriate preparation, will power your car without fuel by 'attracting and concentrating' orgone or zero-point energy.

The prevalence of Joe Cell related bull online is depressing, as there are more and more people willing to call a scientist a fool for dismissing the whole preposterous idea.

In fact, it seems to be increasingly fashionable to assume that because one has no understanding of science, one can dismiss the assertions of the scientific community as bull. This is exacerbated by various 'free energy' device inventors claiming that their devices don't obey the laws apparently dictated by scientists with ulterior motives, and therefore, must function on principles not yet accepted by established science.

What makes it all the more depressing is the number of absurd claims related to (obviously false) stories of success. One popular assertion is that the 'orgone charged' gas that is produced (most likely hydrogen) 'implodes' when ignited, as evidenced by the strange sensation that the pop 'sucks' on the ear drum.

Now, of course, however a sound is produced, the result is no different to the ear in effect - vibrations are vibrations, and an implosion cannot be differentiated by apparent 'sucking' or 'pushing' on the ear drum, because both noises are heard by means of oscillation of air. This is patently 'evidence' offered by somebody who either has no understanding of basic science, or who counts on others having none.

Even if the gas can be made to implode, ignition/combustion is exothermic. It's a bit like claiming something can be made lighter by adding weights.

This is just a taste of the vast amount of rubbish surrounding the Joe Cell and its many faithful supporters (though they should really be called 'followers'). I suspect the whole thing was started by an individual or group as some sort of experiment in human stupidity, perhaps with an interest in religious matters, psychology, or simply the dissemination of information.

That's the short of it, and the reason for mentioning it was simple - I consider the hype surrounding the Joe Cell to be indicative of the fact that the vast majority of the human race are utterly, totally, incurably stupid. This alone might be a good reason to dismiss the greater part of evolution theory, as most people are just too stupid to survive long enough to breed (in an ideal world)... but it seems that stupid partners are preferred by the stupid, and what with the stupid (particularly the deliberately and unashamedly ignorant) being protected by modern society, the stupid continue to breed like rats and increase in number. Evolution is satisfied.

Would you believe - I'm actually in a good mood today! You should hear me complain on one of my darker days.

(Edited by White Hawk on 03-11-2009 15:41)

Woo! Orgone energy!

Wes:...could you please stick your finger into a power socket n let me know if your orgone energy increases

..think's everythng nowdays seems to be revolving around electricity...

~Sig coming soon~

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That irascible genius J.B.S. Haldane, who did much else besides being one of the three leading architects of neo-Darwinism, was once challenged by a lady after a public lecture. It's a word-of-mouth anecdote, and John Maynard Smith is sadly not available to confirm the exact words, but this is approximately how the exchange went:

Evolution sceptic: Professor Haldane, even given the billions of years that you say were available for evolution, I simply cannot believe it is possible to go from a single cell to a complicated human body, with its trillions of cells organized into bones and muscles and nerves, a heart that pumps without ceasing for decades, miles and miles of blood vessels and kidney tubules, and a brain capable of thinking and talking and feeling.

JBS: But madam, you did it yourself. And it only took you nine months.

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