Topic awaiting preservation: How serious is this?

I was reading this article on the whole music sharing debacle and was wondering what you all thought about it. Is P2P really coming to the end of its rope?

Take a look at the RIAA's Take on music sharing and let me know what you think.

Scare tatics (which I believe only apply in the US) - we'll wait and see how things lie when they start filing their first lawsuits. They'd be better off applying their time and effort into getting a good, cheap, useful, etc. service going.

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

Did'nt read the artcile but is this the one where the RIAA think they can charge $150,000 for every 'illegal' mp3. they find on a useers computer that they will track by finding them on P2P programs.. ..


Ohh im scared.. let me uninstall my P2P programs.. ok thats better.. back to all the ftp servers with music files on them.. yay!

Yes, I don't think it will work in other countries than the USA. For example, itsimply will never work in France (and I believe in other countries too, but I don't know their laws about privacy). Simply because in order to find informations about shared files over P2P networks, this organism would have to break one of our freedom : the right to privacy. Whether they find shared files or not, whether we are "guilty" or not to share them, gazering those informations is illegal in France.



[This message has been edited by Moon Shadow (edited 06-30-2003).]

Yeah, that's kinda what I was thinking myself. Never hurts to lie low and it gives me time to archive my CD collection.

Well I frequent the IRC channels a little bit and I have read that the federales are poking around in there....not sure what for but just what I have head.

Your right it is a good time to take a break and archive and listen to what I havent gotten around to yet. =)


[This message has been edited by Indus (edited 07-01-2003).]

quote - from indus - ..."head"..."poking around"..."head"...

? - freudian slip, or subliminal message - ?

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freudian slip, or subliminal message

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My guess is both.

As for the issue at hand, I don't really download files off the Internet. Not that the whole issue doesn't bother me--it does. I can imagine it turning into anything serious, though.

Every fall in Korea the government cracks down on illegal workers (ie, foreigners working here without the proper visa). Mostly the crack-down is aimed at unskilled laborers from Southeast Asia, but the English teachers all panic, especially the new ones. It is especially fun watching them run around like chickens without heads. I've been out of the teaching circles for a few years now, though, so I miss the fun these days.

Anyway, my point is that government crack-downs rarely amount to much. Granted, in this case the Korean government doesn't really want to get rid of the cheap, unskilled labor, and it's more for show than anything else, but governments are notorious for being very inefficient when it comes to these things.




www.liminality.org

I just had a thought that really makes me wonder about the validity of the music industries complaints about music theft.

I don't know the ins and outs of the radio industry but... haven't bands/record companies already been paid for people to listen to their music for free? Don't radio companies have to pay the groups for the music they play? If they've already been paid for me to listen to the music freely on the radio... how is that different from me listening to it freely on my computer at home?

It's mostly a random thought that shot through my head this morning. So is this accurate? As I said, I don't know much about how radio is run so my assumptions may be way off base. Do bands/record labels GIVE the music to radio stations to get their name out there or is it a bit more business then that?

http://www.eff.org/~barlow/EconomyOfIdeas.html


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THAT ^^ was a *really* cool article. Lots to think about now.

Thanx, Petskull.

I try to drop that link into ever thread of this type... I sincerely think EVERYONE should read it..

along with this one:
http://www.eff.org/~barlow/Declaration-Final.html


Code - CGI - links - DHTML - Javascript - Perl - programming - Magic - http://www.twistedport.com
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Well RedHat have managed to do in a day what RIAA has failed to do in 2 years !!!

I upgraded my operating system to RH9, and all hell broke loose on my server. I'm only half-way through getting everything back in order again, and poor little Radio Tribulation is still not functioning .. this is the first 1 week outage in 24 months of broadcasting 365x24 dammit !!


Bug-free software only exisits in two places
A programmer's mind and a salesman's lips

The thing is though, they are not really invading your privacy by seeing if your on a P2P network. They arnt doing much 'invasion' by doing a search for a RIAA artist on Kazzaa, and seeing who's offerng it.

Your putting it out there.

Problem is that they are going first towards the ppl with more files. And how would they demand you? Answer: Checking where the user is stablished, and the only ways i know to do it are very much...illegal.

__________________________________

Cordure is the Absence of Insanity

Alevice's Media Library

There is an artcile on this here:
www.guardian.co.uk/online/story/0,3605,989529,00.html

It seems that all it'll do is force people on to anonymous p2p services (and I suspect others will have to add anonymous features or go out of business).

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

Every piece of land that has ever become powerful has done so by instilling fear into the minds of its inhabitants. This is basically a present-day public hanging. Soon enough, the money machines are going to have to face the fact that scaring the villagers does not much work anymore. Kind of like that movie "Gangs of New York".

I for one buy a CD if I really like what's on it. It is more my collector mindset that wants the CD, the album cover, and the lyrics all in one package (sometimes I buy 2 if I like it just to have one unwrapped). And I'd sure like to hear what else is on the CD besides the "one hit" that is played constantly on the radio. It can be called a technical rip-off if the buyer is left with only one song he really likes. How about some lawsuits there?

The artists that are complaining, are the one's that have slowly but surely sold themselves out, or the one's that have found a way to dig their hands deeper into the pie...they are all just visual "icons" that the money blocks use for advertising. Underneath it all, a band relies on about 2,000 other people to make sure everything sounds good enough for the consumer. 4-piece band??? I THINK NOT!

I am in a band as well. I could only dream of the day that my songs were circulated throughout the P2P networks like a virus. Then I wouldn't need dollar bills to tell me my music is good. But that won't happen because the independent music scene has slowly but surely been supressed, shut-down, what have you...WHY? BECAUSE THERE IS NO MONEY IN ORIGINAL MUSIC!!! There are consumers out there that will simply refuse to purchase a CD that doesn't have some kind of widely recognized logo on it. Enter brand name brainwashing...

It used to be local bands could sell there music at small record shops, and usually at a loss for the band, just to get their name out. They have since been replaced with high-volume, account-based establishments such as Best Buy and Media Play. When an unknown band does get a record deal, you can be sure that the efforts will quickly be reformulated into something much different than the original "vision" of the band. Your Simon's and RIAA's will throw half of their material out, tie strings to their arms and get them to do that dance they thought they'd never be doing. A signed band is a band that has shown enough to be "workable" with the thousands of technicians that will be getting an extra buck off the next craze.

Radio stations are culprits too. Supervised by the government, they typically only air half hour time slots every Sunday at midnight (after the weekend money-sucking has dwindled and people's paychecks have been spent for the weekend anyway) to showcase local music. And half of the time you are bombarded with advertisements. A public benefit my left foot! The bands that do get airplay are virgins to the corporate side of the industry, and are more excited just to hear their own music getting played on the...RADIO! It's nice that these independent musicians (opposite of DEPENDENT musicians mind you) are able to get their music in front of the ears of helpless insomnia sufferers (I am one of them however).

You won't see the RIAA attacking companies that make file-sharing so much more easier though...OH NO! Maxtor has given us oodles of hard drive space to house the gargantuan size of MP3s, videos, and software. Why else would we need 250 gigabytes of disk space...Oh wait, that's right...to save the millions of Word documents that we are expecting to write for the next semester of school. I can see large corps needing this amount of space...but the traditional home PC user?! Maybe that's a helpless angle though.

What about the high-bandwidth providers that offer us the ability to download data in excess of 250 kb/sec?

What about the software development packages we can purchase to create the next eMule client?

What about the CD burning hardware engineers that give us the means to forge our own copies of [insert pirated software title here]?

No they won't be touched...and THEY SHOULDN'T! They are simply responding to the needs of their consumers, faster and more efficiently than their competitors! So how about attacking the 57 million or so "consumers" that purchase the equipment necessary to download, house and burn their next copy of Metallica's latest album? (which sucks) Definately a better method of placing blame I'd say (sarcasm).

In my eyes, we are facing another delusional attempt to further tighten the bolts on the structure that houses the traditional money spender (sorry for all of the prepositional phrases there). A way to keep people from wandering 'outside of the box'. It's funny to see the reaction of challenged power. The RIAA should have made more provisions to eliminate the possibility of sharing mp3s as far as I'm concerned, so how about placing the blame on them.

If this scare does prompt a nationwide/worldwide end to file sharing, you can be sure that a much worse economic failure will result in other industries...industries that have jumped leaps and bounds since the conception of file sharing. Not to mention a large-scale boycott from some of the 57 million involved. I just hope the RIAA soon realizes that they are attacking the people that have given them a reason to become an "Association."

Sure file sharing is immoral in practice. As a matter of fact, you won't see any mp3's besides my own band's music on my computer. I buy CD's if I like them. My point is that the direction of blame and the "reasons why file sharing is destroying the music industry" is all corporate scripted facades in my opinion. With a little reverse pyschology and a hefty budget, I'm sure I could change public awareness too.

Right off the RIAA's website:

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"We'd much rather spend time making music then ["then": this could be the correct use of the word here!] dealing with legal issues in courtrooms. But we cannot stand by while piracy takes a devastating toll on artists, musicians, songwriters, retailers and everyone in the music industry."

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my translation:

"We'd much rather spend time making money then dealing with deviations in our stock portfolio. But we cannot sleep at night knowing that piracy may keep us from our luxury vehicles, mansions, expensive dinners, young women and everything in our bank accounts."

Call me crazy, but file sharing may be the consumer's response to incrementing CD prices. Perhaps the RIAA is pulling up their sleeves to an economic revolution. And yes, the economy is inevitably controlled by the masses.

This is my two pennies...spend 'em how you want.

[This message has been edited by Thumper (edited 07-06-2003).]

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And yes, the economy is inevitably controlled by the masses.

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Good point. I like how in modern times this idea is met with much resistance.


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but file sharing may be the consumer's response to incrementing CD prices

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I couldn't agree with you more, Thumper. (Uh-oh... another crazy here! )
I've been much less inclined lately to purchase CD's due to the cost - simply because I don't know what kind of crap is going to be on the CD. As a consumer, I've been highly disappointed in the material that has been offered lately. And, like so many other consumers out there, behaving in normal consumer fashion I am now seeking out the competition.

I am sure that like many others, I like to know what my money is buying. I can't count on the radio stations to show me all that an album has to offer. Most places that you can purchase CDs that have track samples only have 3-5 songs available to listen to, if they even have that option available. So, before file sharing it was a gamble on whether or not I felt my $15-$18 was well spent. Now, I can peruse the material, decide if I like the album enough to justify the outrageous cost and make my purchase.

If the RIAA was really trying to protect the interests of the artist, I'd maybe feel a little more sympathetic. From my understanding of the recording industry, the artist doesn't see very much as far as profit on record sales (in comparison to the Label execs). I wish more artists would take advantage of what I see as an incredible opportunity- the chance to get their sound heard, not the sound the record label wants us to hear! I'd be more than happy to download an artist's music from their own site for a reasonable cost. (I define reasonable as $0.50-$1.00/song) Imagine the pain the record labels would be in right now if the artists let their contracts expire and did just that! I guess the RIAA should count themselves fortunate that their bread and butter hasn't gone that route.

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I am in a band as well. I could only dream of the day that my songs were circulated throughout the P2P networks like a virus. Then I wouldn't need dollar bills to tell me my music is good. But that won't happen because the independent music scene has slowly but surely been supressed, shut-down, what have you...WHY? BECAUSE THERE IS NO MONEY IN ORIGINAL MUSIC!!! There are consumers out there that will simply refuse to purchase a CD that doesn't have some kind of widely recognized logo on it. Enter brand name brainwashing...

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Dont worry about masses not listening your stuff. Most of them like Sum41-esque crap.

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It used to be local bands could sell there music at small record shops, and usually at a loss for the band, just to get their name out. They have since been replaced with high-volume, account-based establishments such as Best Buy and Media Play. When an unknown band does get a record deal, you can be sure that the efforts will quickly be reformulated into something much different than the original "vision" of the band. Your Simon's and RIAA's will throw half of their material out, tie strings to their arms and get them to do that dance they thought they'd never be doing. A signed band is a band that has shown enough to be "workable" with the thousands of technicians that will be getting an extra buck off the next craze.

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Well, most of the times I like better live concerts, and actually thats were the band/artist earns money. Most of the album sold cash goes to the labels. What most independant musicians here in mexico is actually play on cafés and stuff. For what i know they get some decent amount of money.

And there is actually underground social groups who are Independant stuff whores. ;P

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Why else would we need 250 gigabytes of disk space...

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"Backing up" my Cds in binary format *winks*

And i agree with buying Cds becoz of the package actually =P

__________________________________

Cordure is the Absence of Insanity

Alevice's Media Library

A follow up article to the one I posted above looking at the P2P alternatives available (without, obviously, encouraging the doanloading of copyrighted material):
www.guardian.co.uk/online/story/0,3605,994670,00.html

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor