Preserved Topic: American to English in XP

I installed XP pro on a pc but the keyboard is set to American. so far I've been unable to figure out how to change it to English. any ideas?

Control Panel / Regional and Language Options / Languages / Details / Add
then take a look at Keyboard layout / IME combo box (also Input language, if necessary).

If I install Longhorn, can I set the keyboard to 'Texan' the same way?

No. Microsoft dropped support to Texan keyboard layout a long time ago when she realized Texans use only the mouse.

I am so confused...(which is nothing suprising really) Care to explain the difference between "American" and "English" keyboard layout?

Later,

C:\


~Binary is best~

I also have no idea what the difference should be, but WinXP does make a difference.
Probably some non-usual characters, like the pound symbol and others, are in different places. Or maybe they make use of the right-Alt key (like in the Brazilian-Portuguese layout) for these special characters.

UK keyboard has an @ where the " is on a US keyboard I think and various other symbols are in different locations.

Is english a national language? Or is it just a language of a place? I've long thought that America should establish a national language of American and make sure that people entering the country can speak it.

I've always associated English with UK and American or American-English with the US, me being from the UK and all.

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I've long thought that America should establish a national language of American

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This would be the biggest plagiarism of all times.
Just because you changed some words, because you changed the accent and because you are now bigger than the original creator, it doesn't mean that now you can claim it's your language.
In Brazil we have the same situation. We speak Portuguese, but it's different from the one spoken in Portugal, but it's still the same language, we can understand each other with just minor glitches.

England and America, two countries divided by a common language.

If I decided one day to move to a small island called Dufty and dropped a few silent letters from as many words as I could, because they just don't sound the same as they're written, and that's a bit confusing... would I be justified in calling it Duftyish?

v.Silly indeed

Eh? This has NOTHING to do with ownership of a language. As if there was such a thing (I mean really, do you OWN your language? I thought not). This has to do with having a language requirement for people coming into this country so we have the ability to be ONE NATION. We can't be one nation if no one can communicate with each other. It's awfully hard with political structures as they are to claim that English is our national language. Considering (this is my assumption) that English is the national language of England(UK). Not to mention we fought to not be British in the first place. My guess is that, as a nation, we wouldn't choose to associate ourselves with something we tried so hard not to be.

Plagiarism? Just where do you think all of these languages came from? Typically, it's the variants on a base language that, when separated by vast amount of space the dialects and vernacular diverge into two separate languages. Vast distances don't mean much anymore so the differences become smaller, more subtle. There is a reason that US English and British English are available as choices on many websites, not to mention video games (that have voices), teleconferencing translation centers and so on. If it were just a matter of preference, it wouldn't be as prevelant as it is today.

The Revolutionary war was fought so that we could be an independant country - responsible to ourselves...

Not so that we could "NOT" be English... As I see it, we're pretty buddy buddy with the UK these days!


Cell 617

US citizens should thank UK for lending them their language.
Variations of a language as exist in American-English versus English as spoken in England do not justify a new language. They are just small variations, not even dialects. I'm not a Language expert but it's clear to me that it will take some hundreds or thousands of years, if ever, before US can claim their language is not English, but American.

As for people that do not know English entering US, this is tough. How many people arrive here without speaking one word of English and some years later have their own legitimate business and help the country to grow? Maybe Arnold Chuazenéger (tough name to write, I'm writing it as I pronounce it in my own language :-) was one of these cases...

I think the US has it's own languages.... spoken by the native americans (who are basicly just Indians ) that would be be there real American. But i guess that most US citizens can not speak the indian languages an probably never tried to do so. However if the Americans feel they need an different name for the same language by josef let them do so.
The rest of the world will always know they speak plain English with a different name.
Morph did you get the keyboard right.

~wonders if someone is pulling our leg here~

__________________________________________
"Art has to be forgotten. Beauty must be realized."
Piet Mondriaan

Americans like so much England that they not only borrow her language but they also name a lot of cities after city names from England. It's a joke.
There is Cambridge there. There are Cambridge's here.
There is London there. There are London's here.
There is Oxford there. There are Oxford's here.
There is Liverpool there. There are Liverpool's here.
Etc..., etc..., etc...

See, even when Americans could be creative, they aren't.

I think you're missing the point Viol. I don't care if the language is basically the same or not. Bend all what I mentioned before, that's just my opinion. I imagine we'd get a whole hell of a lot of "You're stealing our language" crap from a lot of people like I am from you if we made the national language English rather than American. What damn difference does it really make? We, as a country, are supposed to be working towards furthering our nation and working together. How easy is it to work with someone you can't talk to? We could call the national language Bojunkal for all I care. It doesn't change what the majority of Americans speak (at least used to). It's a matter of basic communication. whether they further the country or not, wouldn't it further society more if everyone could communicate with each other?

England didn't lend English to us. We spoke it all on our own thank you very much, considering we were english when we first landed here.

Point taken, Bodhi. Although at the time it was so that we could be "NOT" English (as in not ruled by the King), that just isn't an issue currently. Politically speaking, I think that names have a whole lot more meaning than it would appear to you or I on the street. That was the direction I was coming from. From the governments point of view should we be seen, or see ourselves, as taking/borrowing/being granted another countries language or call what we have and speak our own language (or our own version of it... I'll concede) of American? Which do you think would be more likely to happen?

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See, even when Americans could be creative, they aren't.

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easy there buddy.

Later,

C:\


~Binary is best~

Some people here are just too sensitive.
Thread closed for me.

hmm, another can of worms. thanks for your replies guys, I'll give it a go...

is 'HipHopish' a language?

Homey?


Code - CGI - links - DHTML - Javascript - Perl - programming - Magic - http://www.twistedport.com
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LOL, Petskull.

Viol - Why leave? I'm really curious as to your dislike of my idea. As yet I haven't seen you offer up a better one. Debate, don't argue.

GD - The Revolutionary war was fought against taxation without representation, and for the right to govern ourselves. I comprehend your point, however. I'm just finishing up a great book which has a pretty comprehensive history of that war and the reasons for which it was fought. It's written about the history of Freemasonry, but Freemasonry was integral in US independence, and in fact, our government is based on the Freemasonic lodge structure...

Because of the family bonds, and fraternal bonds of the lodges in both the US and England, most colonists were not interested in severing their ties completely, they just wanted the opportunity to govern themselves. It's not the same thing as being not English. They were English - how could they change?

I agree that people immigrating to the US should have some knowledge of the most common language spoken here. (Which happens to be called English) Though I don't believe it should be a pre-requisite for immigration. It's just helpful to be able to communicate your needs. Most of the immigrants I've know over recent years learn English by watching television with the captions on. Some of them speak better English than I do. In a lot of immigrant situations, they are coming here to escape something awful in their homeland. They might not have time to learn English before coming over - but should that stop them from being here? I'm not sure that's a realistic expectation.

As for the names of languages, French is the national language of several countries, not just France, for example. There are several countries in Africa who speak French as their national language, not to mention Quebec in Canada... Why should a language belong to one country? The language of the conqueror becomes the national language... eventually, if not immediately...

Barring the native american languages, which were many and varied to begin with, the USA was founded by English people, and English is the language that they spoke - so it is now our national language. What does it matter that we have a few dialectic differences with merry ol' England? Language evolves regionally. You speak a different dialect of English than I do - because we live in 2 different places. Is it a different language? No. Should it be? No. Too many similarities. But y'all could say Ah speak South'un American English if y'all wanted to be picky about it! But in essence, it's the same language...
I'm not sure, in the grand scheme of things, that it matters what it's all called... So long as we can understand each other!


Cell 617

All very good points. As I said, it makes little to no difference to me what the language is called, nor does it need to be 'American' specifically. It could be english for all I care. The point is it's accepted as the national language but isn't enforced. While there are many that learn english and go out of their way to try and get along in society their are many (a growing many) that never make any attempt to join American society. Learning english doesn't need to be a prerequisit for moving here, but for staying here I think it should be. There are legal structures in place for immigration to happen, they should be used. Why shouldn't learning english be part of the naturalization process? It does me no good for people to bring their culture here to influence and teach me about things if I don't understand anything behind it because no one can explain it to me. The emphasis is on making it easier for people who don't speak english to get by (making it so they don't have to learn english) rather than leaving everything in english and emphasising learning english to live in society. It's forcing a segregation that is hurting this country, IMO. The motion has already begun. Foreign doctors coming to the US to work have to pass an English pronunciation/capability test before they can practice here.

*sigh* I don't see why wanting people to be able to communicate with each other is such a big deal. It's hard for me to get past the prejudicial ideas instilled in me by my peers if I can't have a nice minnesotan chat with Sabib at the 7-11 when I'm buying a pack of gum. You understand what I'm saying? At their most basic level people judge each other by what they know. What better way to KNOW someone then to talk to them? If you can't talk to them, you have to go by what you see and what other people have told you. What a terrible way to stop prejudice and fear.

All totally understandable points. I think, for the most part, I agree with you on all that. I sort of thought that a basic understanding of the English language was part of the naturalization process. I mean, in the midst of all thos questions about the history of the US and all the rules and regulations and laws that immigrants must know to become naturalized citizens, you'd think they would include a basic understanding of what is, stated or not, the national language of the US. Huh. Worth some research, I think.

In 1995, I went to Israel on a dig. It was the first time (since I was 2) that I had been in a country where English was not the main language spoken on the street. I had a firsthand experience with not being able to communicate my needs (I ought to know that 1/4 pound of cheese is not the same as a 1/4 kilo... you'd think, right?). I also had to deal with my inherent prejudice that these people should speak english so that I could understand them. Their prejudice is that I should speak Ivrit (modern hebrew) so that they could understand me! In the end, I had to find someone who spoke both languages so that I could buy some groceries for the weekend! It was a very enlightening experience. I have a great deal of sympathy for folk who live in this country, yet english is not their native tongue.

Yes, I think if one decides to make an english speaking country one's home, one would make an effort to learn to speak english. It comes with the territory.

It's one thing to talk about people who come into the country legally, learning the language of the place they choose to make their home. It's another thing entirely to talk about folks who come into the country ilegally, and have no naturalization process to guide them. These people want to make as much money as they can send home, and don't really care about the rest of the US. They're in it for what they can get out of it. In their minds, learning english doesn't enter into the equation.



Cell 617

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I mean, in the midst of all thos questions about the history of the US and all the rules and regulations and laws that immigrants must know to become naturalized citizens, you'd think they would include a basic understanding of what is, stated or not, the national language of the US.

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That one of my biggest issues. You'd think they would. It's incredible to me how many people i run into in a week that can't speak english. That never knew how or tryed to learn how. People who use their kids as translators so they can get by. I would have thought that they would have come out of immigration with some understanding of english. It is obvious they don't. I think we need to make sure they do.

One of my biggest issues is that other countries expect people that are coming there to live, not just visit but live there, to speak the national language.

Sweden is my most informed example. My Ex-Wife moved to Sweden with her... 'friend' we'll call him... after our divorce. Before she could do anything to get over there to live, even on a visa she had to show some progress in speaking Swedish. Now that she's there she has to know how to read/write and speak swedish fluently before she can get a job or go to school or become a citizen (to my understanding). Apparently they speak a lot of english in Swedish offices and the like but that doesn't seem to matter. It's a pain in the ass, but it's accepted by people moving into the country.

I see no reason why people shouldn't expect to have to know English when moving to America. I see no reason why we shouldn't help them learn. Whether it is classes at Foreign Embassies or classes here after they've gone through the process it doesn't matter to me but I think it should be a basic requirement of citizenship.

It would also stop the illegals (more often thaan not) from getting jobs they shouldn't have. Not to mention that the 10 year "settling in" time that the government gives immigrants that are tax free with extra benefits and such wouldn't necessarily need to be there, or at least not need to be so extravegant. I think that requiring English is a far cheaper and more realistic method of stopping illegals and adding productive, accepted, and understanding citizens to the country.

As to your visit to Isreal... I don't know how long you were there but I think they had the right of it regardless of how long it was. If I'm intending on even visiting a country that speaks a language other than my own, I'm making damn sure I can speak some rudimentary bit of it first. Enough to get me by if I'm visiting or the whole thing if I'm going there to live.

Well, speaking as a linguist (and I shall be as brief as possible)...

...American English is a dialect of English. British English is a dialect of English. Cockney English. Welsh English. Southern American English. AAVE (African American Vernacular English). Canadian English. Cajun English. et cetera.

This debate is moot.

Language must change, if not in a year-by-year basis, than by a day-by-day basis. The language of English is a mish-mash of so many languages, it's absurd. German. Latin. Spanish. French. Some things are taken directly, some things are simply bastardizations. Look at the word "debt," for example. We do not pronounce the 'b' in that word, as a rule. In fact, it was added to the language (taken from the French, by the way) without a 'b' originally. It was, simply, 'det.' The reason the 'b' was added again was the aristocracy in the English hierarchy decided, to be relevant, to add the 'b' to pay homage to the original spelling in French, which had the 'b'.

Consequently, the French never pronounced the 'b' either.

What does this all mean? There are 600 million people that speak English. That means there are 600 million dialects. In Denver, I have a different dialect than people in Colorado Springs, and that's a half hour jaunt.

So, we have a common language throughout all English speaking peoples. There are similar words. Phonetically, we pronounce some words differently. Let it lie.

If you search further, 'debt' comes from Latin (the French word came from Latin).
In Portuguese, we write 'débito' and we do pronounce the 'b' loud and clear. We're very close to the original 'debitum'.
Ain't Portuguese great? Oh, sorry, Brazilian !!

PS - hadn't I told me this thread was closed? Gee!

I said

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it makes little to no difference to me what the language is called

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Thanx anyway TwItch^