Topic awaiting preservation: What web browser do you use?

I use Avant Browser. I tried Mozilla 1.5, but it couldn't render my site correctly despite all the hype about it adhering to W3 standards. (My site and CSS validated with W3 so it was definitely a compatibility problem on Mozilla's side.)

I largely use Opera 7 although I use IE for the radio as it doesn't work in Opera. I'd pos. use FireBird if I could get it to work

We had a bit of a discussion on this here too:
http://development.gurusnetwork.com/discussion/thread/2431/

___________________
Emps

The Emperor dot org

quote:

---

My site and CSS validated with W3 so it was definitely a compatibility problem on Mozilla's side.

---

Just because it's valid doesn't make it render "correctly".

I use plain IE6 I don't like any of those "web browsers" that are just using IE to render pages (like MyIE2, Avant, etc.) But, besides IE6, I also have Opera 7, Mozilla 1.5, FireBird 0.7 installed just for testing to see if my pages work in them...

Metahuman, can you post a link to your site? If it validates, Mozlla shouldn't have any problems displaying it correctly...

At the moment i'm using Mozilla Firebird. Absolutely amazing browser (IMO anyway ) I just love the extensions you can use with it, making the browser work exactly how you want it to. I also find it to be very fast.

I've never personally use Avant Browser but it looks very similar to Crazy Browser (I think i remember someone from the asylum saying they use Crazy Browser).

On a side note, i don't think i could use a browser now that didn't support tabbed browsing. I first used them when i tried out Mozilla 1.4. Never once looked back. It might have something to do with the fact i have about 10+ tabs open at a time. My bookmarks folder is a complete mess and i dont like sorting through it to get to a page i want, just find it easier to have it open at all times

Right, sorry if that made no sense but i'm at work and don't have much spare time. Got to get back.

Mozilla FireBird owns your soul... bow down before it's might. If god was a browser he'd be MozFB.


It's only after we've lost everything...
That we're free to do anything...

Firebird! as nolp said, i love the extensions and tabbed browing and well, i just love it! before that, i used opera, which is where i got hooked on tabbed browsing. IE hates me (which i'm quite fine with) and refuses to run properly so it and netscape only get used for testing.

Safari.

Been using Opera7.x for the last couple of months. Used Mozilla or Firebird before that. The thing that made me switch from Mozilla/Firebird was Operas mail system which I really like.

_________________________
"There are 10 kinds of people; those who know binary, those who don't and those who start counting at zero"
- the Golden Ratio -

IE 6 and Mozilla 1.5. I ususally use IE for general browsing but I do love Mozilla.

Let's see - installed, I have:
IE 6.0 SP1
IE 5.5 SP2
IE 5.01 SP2
IE 4.01
Mozilla 1.5
Opera 7.23
Netscape 7.1

I use IE 6.0 SP1 for the most part during the day, with the rest accessible via Optool for testing. Optool doesn't allow more than 7 browsers, or I'd have Firebird as well. I understand the next version of Optool will support more browsers.

quote:

---

I'd pos. use FireBird if I could get it to work

---

can't get it to work? strange.......

I use FB too.

Later,

C:\


~Binary is best~

IE5.5 at home (havent bothered to install any others after the recent reinstall)
IE6 at work since a lot of our tools just work in IE6. Go figure....

I primarily use Netscape 7.1 these days but also have the following browsers installed for testing:

Netscape 6.2
Mozilla 1.5
Netscape 4.7
InterNET Explorer 5.0
InterNET Explorer 6.
Opera 7.0

-- not necessarily stoned... just beautiful.

Usually mozilla firebird.

Want to reiterate HZR's point -

quote:

---

My site and CSS validated with W3 so it was definitely a compatibility problem on Mozilla's side.

---

As stated, validation does not in any way imply that you are actually using the code correctly to accomplish what you want.

The *ONLY* thing it means is that you have no syntax errors, and are using stadardized tags and selectors.

The validator has no way of knowing what your layout intentions are, and therefore cannot tell you whether you are correctly setting up your code to achieve them.

Mozilla, like any browser, has the occasional quirk. But by and large, it's adherence to w3c standards, and proper rendering of properly coded sites exceeds any browser that I've used.

The key part to that is "properly coded" (which, again, is more encompassing than "valid code"). It is much less forgiving of problematic code than IE.

I was a diehard IE user for a long time but I switched to Firebird a while back. It's tabbed browsing capabilities are what finally won me over.

:::11oh1:::

Browsers installed:
IE6.0
IE5.5
IE5.01
IE3.0
MZ1.4
FB0.7
NN4.79
Lynx2.8.4

Browsers used daily:
IE6.0 ... mainly due to a reflex of PAVLOV that make me click on the blue icon instead of the red one
FB0.7 ... when I browse some sites stuffed with ads ( my userContent.css hides them ) or when I browse some sites with many articles



[This message has been edited by poi (edited 01-21-2004).]

I use Firebird

*use* IE6 (sometimes that piece of crap Firebird for tabbed browsing on a big research dig)

installed for testing
IE6, 5.5, 5
Firebird 0.7
Opera 7
NN4.7, 6.2

quote:

---

sometimes that piece of crap Firebird...

---

*gasp* blasphemer!

I had that p.o.c. as my default for a little while, til I found myself constantly having to open IE to view content. IE just works, on everything. Firebird's a fine thing, but it's not my default browser. If it handled plugins as well as it does extensions, it'd be the go, maybe.

I use Nutscrape 7.0.1, (only because Deviantart looks good on it.)

IE6 - simple is better. I would like the tabbed thing though. Sounds pretty cool. But everything seems to work on IE, since everyone who doesn't know about checking different browsers for compatibitlity usually only tests it on IE, so therefore that is why I use it, so everything looks right.


.quotes.

DL: If my CSS is W3-compliant, and my site renders perfectly in Avant Browser (a souped up version of IE6) yet incorrectly in Mozilla, then logically the problem rests with Mozilla.

krets: Have you tried Avant Browser? I haven't tried Firebird, but I will.

metahuman:

quote:

---

If my CSS is W3-compliant, and my site renders perfectly in Avant Browser (a souped up version of IE6) yet incorrectly in Mozilla, then logically the problem rests with Mozilla.

---

Not necessary. IE is famous for its "personal" and limited interpretation of the standards. I don't know if you already did, but you should check the specifactions of the CSS and the sites of some CSS advocates to see if the elements in your page are rendered correctly. You'll quickly find out that the problem do not, or extremely rarely, comes from Mozilla, and that if you want to make a Standard Compliant site, the way to go is first Mozilla ( or any other *really* Standard Compliant browser ), then the other browsers.



[This message has been edited by poi (edited 01-21-2004).]

I use Avant primarily because it's IE6 with tabbing and it's skinnable. I'm one of those eye candy people. Gotta agree with JK, IE seems to give me a better overall experience with all sites. Mainly, I think because it is the dominent browser and designers/developers usually make it the priority browser to design for. Of course I have IE6, IE5.1,IE5.5, Netscape 6.1, Netscape 7.1, Mozilla, Firebird and opera 6.0 for testing. (Can't wait for that optool upgrade!) Firebird is cool, and I can see it really catching on, But there just seems to be greater all around support for IE6.

I wish I could use Safari on windows!!





[This message has been edited by jive (edited 01-10-2004).]

yah, that would be IE... It works well, its always ready to go, and i get more space per icons, and all that froo-froo... frooy junk.

Froo!

Yay! Another Avant user.

I use IE6 when browsing. I like FB better, but am too lazy to change all my settings to make it default.

Installed Browsers:

IE6
IE55
IE51
Moz1.0
NS4.72
NS7.01
FB0.7
Opera7
Lynx (some version)
Openwave SDK (cell phone emu thingy)

Think that's it.

Bah, Firebird sucks big time. It's slow, it constantly thows up bizzare errors and it hogs memory like you wonldn't believe. I've once seen it using more than 500 Meg of swap space and I only have 5 browser windows open (Including Tabs)! I've tried switching to use firebird several times now, but I keep going back to IE because it's fast, simple and it actually works. I'd use Opera but the advertising annoys me and I'm not a fan of how the browser on a whole is laid out.

Althtough, I do use Thunderbird as my email client, as it seems to have less issues with my IMAP account than Outlook does.

Firebird all the way.

I recently installed XP on my parents computer which has this nice ability to uninstall IE and Outlook Express, I then installed Firebird and Thunderbird and amazingly enough the only problem they have come to me with is "When I click on web browser it doesn't open up to google automatically" at which point I set their homepage to google and there were no more problems at all.

Many people might have tried firebird back when it was pheonix or during one of its earlier iterations, but the new 0.7 is pretty solid. I would recommend you check it out if you haven't. It is such a small application and it works so well.

-Dan-

I pretty much stick to IE6. I have most of the others installed and I use them to make sure the stuff I do looks ok in them. Lately I've been trying to get back into some Javascript coding and I really don't want to fight the cross-browser fight just yet until I know what I've got going on one browser first.

Another reason I stick with IE is that over 90% of my visitors use it.

. . : slicePuzzle

I've been on a Lynx kick lately, mostly because I'm trying to avoid losing my job due to accessibility lawsuits....

The amazing thing is how few of us have any idea how our sites 'appear' to text browsers & text readers. Here is what this page looks like in Lynx:

Lynx

/* Sure, go ahead and code in your fancy IDE. Just remember: it's all fun and games until someone puts an $i out */

[This message has been edited by norm (edited 01-10-2004).]

[This message has been edited by norm (edited 01-10-2004).]

Firebird for all my serious needs.
When some site requires ActiveX, and I can't live without it, I have to use IE.
When testing pages for my homeworks, I use also Opera 7 (good for WML, for instance - Firebird has an extension that doesn't work properly).

As stated in another post i do use different browsers on different computers... but when i am at home and be able to choose Mozzilla1.5 or firebird0.7. The good thin about moz is the very direct way you can search. Jut type the keywords in the adres bar, click on the search button or (even faster) click below the adresbar on the apearing box.
And your search is on its way. I almost never open google directly.

When i use the linux version on my dualboot system i use sometimes kongueror bit this seems a bit slow.


__________________________________________
"Art has to be forgotten. Beauty must be realized."
Piet Mondriaan

Mozilla all the way, with the Skypilot skin...

you'd have to be on crack to use anything else...

....and I've no idea why people choose Firebird OVER Mozilla..


Code - CGI - links - DHTML - Javascript - Perl - programming - Magic - http://www.twistedport.com
ICQ: 67751342

To those having some problems of memory with Firebird, I'd like to mention that I often surf like crazy. I mean, when I'm looking for some gaming sites I often open all the screenshots I can. Thus it's not rare to have ~50/60 URL open. Firebird 0.7 begin to crawl then ( notice that I've only ~2Gb left on a total of 51Gb ), but whenever I start to open the links like crazy with IE 6.0, 2 times over 3 it crashes and closes all the windows without any warning except the usual "Do you want to report the error to Microsoft" ... as if Microsoft would debug that.



[This message has been edited by poi (edited 01-21-2004).]

Did you guys know that you can type "dict" plus any word in the location bar of Firebird and it will automatically search dictionary.com for that word? I.E. "dict apotheosis" will search dictionary.com for that word.

I just found that out yesterday. Kick ass.

:::11oh1:::

Firebird is really great and IE sucks.

But I'll tell you that I'm developing a site as my final project in a course, and it's about XML and XSLT. I have an XML data file that's around 1MB of size. When I type the address of such file in Firebird, Firebird freezes for about 1 minute, and then it shows the tree structure of the file (getting back to normal). When I do the same in IE, it takes around 4 seconds to do the same thing and show the same tree structure.

Both browsers take around 50MB in RAM memory when displaying this tree.

quote:

---

then logically the problem rests with Mozilla.

---

That is totally wrong in every way. That is not "logic".

Again - the validator *only* determines that you are using valid selectors and have no syntax errors.

It does *not* have anything to do with the whether or not the page will render properly. That is what testing is for.

If you design your site to work in IE, then you are going to end up working with IE's very loose interpretation of a lot of things, and therefore never learn how to do it "right".

Mozilla not rendering the page properly, will mean - about 95% of the time - that there is something in your code that you are going about the wrong way.

As far as firebird not handling plugins - I have never had such a problem You have to tell it what to use is all....
I've had absolutely no problems with it being slow, and it has been more stable on my machine than IE.

Actually, saying firebird sucks big time is probably a little too harsh as it has lot of handy features like the one krets mentioned (I also set it up so typing "g search term" did a Google search like Opera), but the overall performance of the browser makes my Athlon XP 2000 feel like I'm using a 486, and I'd much prefer a fast browser over the features fb provides, and yes, this was with a0.7.

Hopefully when it reaches the 1.0 release version this will won't be an issue anymore but until then I'll be sticking with ie.

Edit:

As for IE not being stable, I've never had problems with it. Although I'm quite rigorous when it comes to maintaining windows updates, service packs, and patches. As such don't seem to encounter even half of the issues most people do with windows on a whole. In fact, the last time I can recall IE crashing was about 4 months ago when I had around 30+ windows open and was trying to load some odd Java app. Firebird on the other hand often became so unresponsive that I had to open the task manager and force it to quit so I could continue using my computer on quite a regular basis.

DL: I think the issue with firebird and plugins is that the "web install" feature that some plugin-like technologies use, namely Java, doesn't work. Although, someone has created an unofficial windows installer for firebird which will enable this feature to work as expected. The reason this doesn't normally work with firebird is because the alpha releases aren't "installed" on your system like most programs are, as such the 'web install' feature won't work with it. Again, I'm sure this won't be a problem as the software approaches the 1.0 release version.

[This message has been edited by Cameron (edited 01-10-2004).]

I've never had any performance problems with FB Cam. It's performance on my machine easily equals that of IE.

:::11oh1:::

Don't get me wrong, I'd really like to start using firebird full time, and as such usually download a new build and give it another run every couple of months, but I've yet to find the above mentioned issues fixed. As I don't have the time to jump through the required hoops to use bugzilla, I'll just sit on my hands and wait untill someone else fixes it.

I should also mentioned that the performance issues I mention have nothing to do with FB's rendering performance, which it quite fast and it's DHTML performance out stripps IE in many corners.

Although I can forsee other issues poping up when/if I do finally make the switch. I use lots of different computers all the time (few of which I have any say as to what software is on them), mostly for web research, but through my trials of using FB, that ever so handy middle-click (open in new tab) is a ripe pain of a feature to un-learn once you get use to it.

THat has nothng to do with FB of course, but it's still an issue for me none the less. Maybe Opera, Mozilla/Firebird have created new features and psudo standards/conventions for tabbed browsers that IE will follow with when M$ finally releases it's new OS.

prefer IE 6.

quote:

---

Krets
Did you guys know that you can type "dict" plus any word in the location bar of Firebird and it will automatically search dictionary.com for that word? I.E. "dict apotheosis" will search dictionary.com for that word.

---

That's horrible, krets. The majority of Dictionary.com's definitions are provided by the American Heritage dictionary which is the most inaccurate dictionary in the marketplace. I prefer to have Wordsmyth.net in the Links section of my Favorites so that it appears in the Links Bar. After all, clicking a button is quicker than typing "dict".

quote:

---

DL-44
That is totally wrong in every way. That is not "logic".

Again - the validator *only* determines that you are using valid selectors and have no syntax errors.

---

It may be a logically fallacious way to look at it, but it's still logic.

If my XHTML and my CSS is valid--no syntax errors, valid selectors, etc.--then the page should render properly. My site renders properly in other browsers except Mozilla. Explain that.

Regarding the Dictionary feature in Fb and Mz, I prefer to add Dictionary.com in my list of search engines. Dictionary.com may not be the most accurate online dictionary, but it helps me to correct some typos and understand the idea behind some obscure words.

metahuman: You can use another dictionary, or make/use a bookmarklet prompting a word and then searching for it on the site of your choice.

quote:

---

If my XHTML and my CSS is valid--no syntax errors, valid selectors, etc.--then the page should render properly. My site renders properly in other browsers except Mozilla. Explain that.

---

If you care, you could post an URL in the Site reviews! section to let people see what happen and eventually suggest some fixes.

[edit]

Use it if you want, but here comes a quick bookmarklet for WordSmyth :

javascript:wot="";wot=prompt("Wordsmyth me this word","");if(wot!="")window.open("http://www.wordsmyth.net/live/home.php?script=search&matchtype=exact&matchent="+wot,"","");void(0);

[/edit]



[This message has been edited by poi (edited 01-11-2004).]

[This message has been edited by poi (edited 01-21-2004).]

Krets, you din't even need to type the word that you are looking for with FB. Just highlight the word right click and select dictionary search...badda Boom Most of the time though for detailed breakdown of what a word means I use one of those thinymabobs, ah yes a book (the Oxford English Dict') .But this feature in FB is great for checking spelling quickly if nothing else.

::tao::

poi: I'll try FB sometime then.

EDIT: That was just awesome... I managed to get my site to render correctly in Mozilla... yay! ;p

[This message has been edited by metahuman (edited 01-11-2004).]

quote:

---

then the page should render properly

---

Please define properly.

Again, you *must* understand that w3c validation still has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not your page will render "properly", since that is very dependent on what you are trying to do, and how you go about doing it.

The validator cannot judge that.

The validator cannot determine whether you intent is properly realized in your code.

Providing an example of the problem you are having with your site would helpful if you want an explanation as to where the problem is....

my Fav even though it does not have perfect html rendering is Konqueror.
Split views,
Tabbed vies,
multiple protocol support (kio slave) (ftp,sftp,smb,nfs,avfs ect...)
makes a great all in one browser..
http://megalex.pointclark.net/gallery/myrig/snapshot1?full=1

Very flexible for Systems administrators and webmasters..
Example i can open 3 views one with an ftp connection to one webserver
and another to an sftp connection to another and another with a windows file sharing connection (smb)
and copy files, edit files, delete files, drag and drop ect... in those views i can do almost everything i can do on a local filesystem..
So powerfull that sometimes i forget im connected to my servers and end up erasing or modifying files that i thought where local.. hehe

I also use mozilla and IE 6.0 on crossover office to check my html work..

weeee....

i use mozilla firebird, but i've also opera7 and IE6