Hello everyone
Please visit http://www.digitalchalice.com - Its version 02.b - but I do need it tested with as many browsers. Please enter the site several times as there are some interesting random generations All comments welcome - My credits will be expanded but a huge thank you to several masters in here. Thank you in advance
are you retarded? my browser (no, it isnt netscape) supports javascript, thankyouverymuch, but your "website" doesn't think it does. and of course, i cant even see why because you are using a retarded html mangler (which only goes further to prove your stupidity). dont waste peoples time if youre just going to post shit that isnt accessible in more than internet exploiter and/or netscape.
xcalibur: Well I really don't know where to start but I'll try a and start positive. So good things:
1. The JavaScripting on the interface works well.
So things I don't like (well what I'll do is run through the big ones and then get the strenght up to go back and start picking holes):
1. The music - I dislike being made to listen to someone else's music as I'm listening to my own and then having the speaker just give me an option to turn the music off all I get is a selection of other tunes to listen too).
2. The popup window - I just don't see the need for it
3. The background - it might just be me but it had little flickers and seemed to slightly move every now and again which was distracting (it seems to twitch when you mouseover a button).
4. The interface - I'm still unsure what the site is about. There is no explanation and having a mystifying interface is no good way of getting people into the site. There seem to be buttons that act active but don't seem to do something and other buttons keep making things happen. None of them are labelled so it is just a case of experimenting
5. The splash screen - I know you need it to offer a choice of pop ups but as I don't see the point in them (see point 2) so it the splash screen redundant as well and the graphics aren't great on the actual links area.
6. No right click - people review things in different ways but I like to roll up my sleeves and get into the code and really root around. Having no right click is no protection of your code (if I wanted it I could have it) but removes some of the tools I use to look at a page and use a site. If you ask for a review I'd really want the right click to be there.
I'm sure some of the inmates have created a site containing all the things I've said I don't like as some kind of elaborate joke. This doesn't mean your site is bad a vast amount of work and planning and effort has gone into it and I'd imagine a lot of people would really like what you have done but it presses all the wrong buttons for me. You have a lot of talent but what you've done with your site just isn't my cup of tea I'm afraid
Emperor I *really* appreciate your effort and comments.
The Entry page will have a "navigation Guide/explanations" but I need feedback on 'what users found difficult' to discover. Also I do want the visitors to experiment ie slide mose/click. All buttons do in fact show a textual "label" in the middle of the console. The music can be switched off by pressing the large stop button in the middle of the back and forward buttons of the VCR type buttons... thank you for the comment I will redesign the user interface for that.
I shall try to address the flickering background but its going to be hard with IE5+ or 6
When you say the buttons do not "act" did you click on all 8? 4 on the left and 4 on the right? They should display Menu text in the left and right panels respectively. On clicking one of those items you may either get a submenu in the middle of the console or in fact a DHTML page opens up - confused here.
Thanks again Emperor and please be patient... I will address most of your worries
PS There is a reason for the "initial" entry page - because of the restrictions of what one can/cannot do in current tools avaliable to browsers however... just a few years ago none of this was possible
This is my first try... is that reason enough to be...ummm... half forgiven? :P
Boy, what la'dsasha lacks in post count, she sure makes up for with eloquence quality!
I don't know what to say about the site aside form Emperor's comments, and the issue of browser compatibility...
There just seems an awful lot of unnecessary stuff that takes up a *lot* of bandwidth.
It loads slow, the graphics are full of cheesy canned effects...and quite honestly I didn't have the patience to wait for much in the way of content to load - it just took too long and didn't give any hint of....promise (and I'm on cable...).
Not even sure where to tell you to try to go with any of it quite frankly.
=(
[This message has been edited by DL-44 (edited 01-19-2003).]
xcalibur: I'm glad you took that in the spirit it was intended - I would have felt better about it if the ideas had been been implemented poorly but my main concern lies with the underlying aim. I just feel you are trying too hard. The Doc produces interesting an innovatory interfaces which work beautifully and whilst being non-standard they are intuitive which takes a lot of practice/work to get right. I just wonder if you might be better advised to start simpler with your "first try" and then play with the graphical/DHTML ideas you have and test them and tweak them. That way you get a feel for the issues involved in effective webpage design and the appropriate deployment of various technologies.
Looks like a case of way too much trimming and way to little content. Oh and if you can, try and streamline your code a little. I've been watching DVD's on my second monitor while testing a new version of my DHTML scroller app before I clicked into you site and well, My 1.7 Ghz PC nearly had a heart attack trying to load your page. So much so that the DVD playback software crashed...
Oh and please, don't make non-resizable windows, nor windows without all the menus and buttons. Feature less windows are fine for a pop-up that only contains an image or simple web form but for a whole website, may as well keep all the other stuff there. Yah know, it's there for a good reason and I use it a lot so don't take it away or I'll just have to close your window and find one that does have all my buttons on it. Same goes for when I want to make the window a wee bit smaller so I can see what's heppening on ICQ... If I can't re-size I'm instantly tempted to close it rather than move it out of the way... Dig?
Emperor thanks
I still do not know if you have clicked on any of the eight buttons? It is only whyen you have revealed the Menu/Submenu texts and clicked on these that in fact the "circular" feature buttons become obvious and usable. Yes I know that the fiels may take time to load up and I will optimise all those in v1 but on cable it should take only seconds to upload each of the sections. Here in Australia we do not have half the speed of the US friends and the load test show max of 8 seconds (my target) to load first Entry page. The music is mp3 streamed... therefor takes almost no time?
The purpose of the Web site is rather esoteric... not to be the same with anyone at all... and be a repository of/for those that care to venture in When I complete the pages and get someone to help me with the PHP server side... I shall reveal more... In the meantime - I appreciate feedback on time it takes to load at first entry. The rest of the page loads are almost instant and certainly as fast as any DHTML server side DB delivered pages...
Please continue to comment and crticise - how else will I ascend to the levels to those that are better than I?
DL-44 thank you for your words, good and... scolding... as for your cable connection... hmmm can not understand why... DigitalChalice as the name suggests is just that... not a typical 6.5pts textual "art directed" collection of diary ramblings and my intention is to have the pages delivered faster than most... has anyone noticed that there is *NO* refreshing of pages here?
Thank you Dracusis - thats what I need a person that gets to the point and describes the journey as well as the purpose
I shall remove the non-resisable feature eventualy... however... my 'prime directive' in this instance is that there will be *no*refreshing of screen... as - it is *that* that is bringing the Internet to a crawl... millions of page redraws for the sake of an average 25% change to the page currently viewed. It is now imosible for me to do this as the entire contents of the screen would be "scambled" if I allow a resize... and I thought that since you can click on... ICQ icon in the task bar... why resize? I also offer a "smaller" window size on entry... just so that PC users can see the windows in the background.
Dracusis... please do persist - I'll buy you a cup of coffee .. or two... if you do
Okay, your splash screen honestly makes me giggle. It's like Emperor said -- it's like someone made it as a practical joke. "Say, let's make a site with as many ill-advised design choices as possible!"
I click "Standard mode," and what's this? A non-resizable window pops up, set to the width of my desktop. Why is this a problem? Because I have a two-monitor system in Windows 2000, buddy, and that means that your site is sprayed all the way across two screens.
Fortunately for my sanity, I get a "loading background" text, with no animation or preload percentage, and that's it for the next thirty seconds. I click the Close button like a man who has barely escaped execution.
Now. If your site is art, you can do literally anything you want with it (although clearly there are people you're not going to reach, like me. By the way, I tried this out with Internet Explorer 6.0, so I'm not sure what browser you're coding to.) But if your site is meant to serve any specific use -- if it's meant for people to go to and see things on it -- then you might want to scrap it all and start at the plain-HTML beginning.
edit: Just tried it in Mozilla, for kicks, but couldn't even get a splash screen. When I checked the source, it looked normal at first, but had a script tag like this:
Perfect Thunder....
There should be a simple graph style animation and a percentage No showing you how the page is loading?? *confused look* If you have a modem then... the first entry to my Web page can take that long... sorry... no answer at the moment. Cable reduces this to about 8-12 secs depending on PC, browser and user settings... I will try to improve
xcalibur: Thanks for the explanation of the buttons but if you start needing instructions on how to actually use the thing then that should be a sign that you are getting into some kind of usability nightmare. The comments of the others here might also give you a good idea that something is wrong.
I suspect taking the comments on board you should get something easier to use and it should be an interesting adventure for you. There are certainly things you should drop asap like the source code protection. Rarely do people do anything so amazing that people would do more than peek at the page (some of the people in the Asylum are obvious exceptions).
Okay, I finally loaded the damn thing, in 1:24 on my cable modem. It ran creakingly slow on my 1 Ghz Athlon in IE6.0, and it was sprayed gruesomely over a 2560-pixel-wide desktop due to that foolish unresizeable window, but at least it became clear why it's got that source encoding -- it's a commercial product. You want to be able to sell the right to use your design for other things, and you assume that people won't buy it if they can just steal it.
There are two problems with this. The first problem is that if one site copies another, particularly if the design in question is distinctive and elaborate, they get publicly ridiculed (and legal action is certainly within reason). The second problem is that if one site buys the right to look exactly like another, people will assume that the site ripped the first one off, whether it's on the up-and-up or not.
You would appear to have some real dHTML talent. Even though digitalchalice.com is misguided in many ways -- at least in my perception -- it's still an impressive piece of work. Why not take the encryption off this design and use it as a showpiece to sell your unique design abilities -- not existing designs -- to future clients? (edit: I'm not personally interested in the source code. I dislike the encryption on a philosophical level. Look at Doc Ozone, a world-class master of dHTML -- he considers his code a potential learning tool for others; and most professional designers I know feel the same way.)
I've honestly never really heard of someone selling a web page he's already created. I've only heard of people selling web pages they're going to create -- i.e. selling their ability, not a product. I suspect that there's a reason for that.
[This message has been edited by Perfect Thunder (edited 01-19-2003).]
I wish to thank all the people in here that have so painstakingly taken the time to explore and issue comments on DigitalChalice. The compatibility issues are a nightmare to address. I have a P4 2Ghz cable connected machine and the web site literaly "screams" with speed-so much so that I was going to have the code "slowed down" :-) However I think that it is the encrypted code that slows it down for some user configurations. I promise to address this. The "reason" is that I really did not want the *corporate* giants that have their "designers" and "art directors" copy my ideas and then charge tens of thousands of $ for it. In fact, the purpose of Digital Chalice is to make available some very powerfull code and design to people of the world that they could not afford. ie. The intention is to "sell" all the 3689 lines of code and several MIC Console designs, backgrouns music etc etc as a ready to install web site for about $69! And the reason even for this pithey amount is that I need to pay the ISP and maintain the web site. If someone was willing to help out with PHP code and some server issues I would be appreciative and am willing do consider partnerships. This is *NOT* a commercial site. I *will* release it unencrypted as soon as I have completed Registered tm issues (which have sent me nearly bankrupt). One final note. The console that rises up can be anything... a pair of sunglasses, a Nokia Phone, a car dashboard. My code is modular and will handle motion and control of any graphic image. There will not be two identiacl MIC (tm) consoles in the world :-) Once again a heartfelt thank you to *all* that have contributed and you are all welcome to e-mail me if interested in collaboration.
posted 01-19-2003 01:25
All comments welcome 
- My credits will be expanded but a huge thank you to several masters in here. Thank you in advance 
