Topic: Netscape 6 Image Table Spacing $Pages that link to <a href="https://ozoneasylum.com/backlink?for=10633" title="Pages that link to Topic: Netscape 6 Image Table Spacing" rel="nofollow" >Topic: Netscape 6 Image Table Spacing\$

Author	Thread
Brian Sexton Nervous Wreck (II) Inmate From: Sunnyvale, California (USA) Insane since: Nov 2001	posted 11-19-2001 09:25 Has anyone encountered any peculiar spacing of images in tables under Netscape 6? It seems that I did something at some point that made Netscape 6 put spaces in some table cells which do not belong there. That or Netscape 6 changed (I amcurrently using Netscape 6.2 under Windows). Either way, I already tried adjusting the cell span properties and I am just not seeing the problem, so perhaps some fresh eyes might help. My Personal Web Site See anything wrong? Any ideas? Thanks in advance for any insights.
mr.maX Maniac (V) Mad Scientist From: Belgrade, Serbia Insane since: Sep 2000	posted 11-19-2001 20:40 Instead of using HTML Strict document type, use HTML Transitional document type (i.e. <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"> ) and all gaps in tables will go away... More information: http://www.evolt.org/article/rating/17/4427/index.html
Brian Sexton Nervous Wreck (II) Inmate From: Sunnyvale, California (USA) Insane since: Nov 2001	posted 11-22-2001 22:10 Thanks, but I am trying to move forward by working with HTML 4.01 Strict. I have already done countless pages in HTML 4.01 Transitional.
mr.maX Maniac (V) Mad Scientist From: Belgrade, Serbia Insane since: Sep 2000	posted 11-22-2001 22:50 Personally, I don't care about HTML strict document type. There are still so many cross browser issues that can be resolved only by using non standard tags. Anyway, using HTML strict document type can only create trouble. Depending on web browser page will be rendered differently since each browser has different renderings for standards & quirks mode (read the article from the link that I posted above). Anyway, you can still make your code HTML strict compatible, just don't specify HTML strict as document type...
Brian Sexton Nervous Wreck (II) Inmate From: Sunnyvale, California (USA) Insane since: Nov 2001	posted 11-28-2001 07:52 With no DOCTYPE, it is not truly HTML 4.01 Strict.
kretsminky Maniac (V) Inmate From: A little lower... lower... ahhhhhh, thats the spot Insane since: Jun 2000	posted 11-28-2001 09:55 deleted your accidental new topic
mr.maX Maniac (V) Mad Scientist From: Belgrade, Serbia Insane since: Sep 2000	posted 11-29-2001 19:23 Brian, as I've already said, I don't care about HTML strict document type. Only thing that I care about when making web sites is cross browser compatibility, which HTML strict cannot provide in most cases...
Brian Sexton Nervous Wreck (II) Inmate From: Sunnyvale, California (USA) Insane since: Nov 2001	posted 12-08-2001 11:11 Eureka! I don't know if this will work all of the time (I have not yet tested it extensively), but the following will tell Netscape 6 and Mozilla to stop being stupid about spacing: IMG { display: block } Mr. Max, I too am interested in cross-browser compatibility, but not at the expense of standards. Non-conformance with standards is the very reason we have to test our HTML documents under multiple browsers.
Brian Sexton Nervous Wreck (II) Inmate From: Sunnyvale, California (USA) Insane since: Nov 2001	posted 12-08-2001 23:31 One Problem With The Above Method: Netscape 6 and Opera 6 will shift a text-align centered graphic to the left side of a larger containing element. Internet Explorer 6 leaves it alone.
Perfect Thunder Paranoid (IV) Inmate From: Milwaukee Insane since: Oct 2001	posted 12-09-2001 02:48 I'm not positive what you're doing with your tables, but it sounds like you're using them to position graphics. That, in itself, is a violation of the intent behind the "strict" HTML interpretation. If you're using the Strict definition, tables should be used only for the presentation of tabular data. CSS is your answer to everything else.
Brian Sexton Nervous Wreck (II) Inmate From: Sunnyvale, California (USA) Insane since: Nov 2001	posted 12-12-2001 09:43 If CSS positioning were more reliable, I might use it more, but there are still some problems and composite images would look terrible if displayed in linear fashion in a non-CSS browser, so yes, I am still using tables for some image positioning. My code still validates as HTML 4.01 Strict.
Perfect Thunder Paranoid (IV) Inmate From: Milwaukee Insane since: Oct 2001	posted 12-16-2001 13:33 Understood. My objection is one of theory rather than of practice: if your document's code is transitional (and if it uses non-web-standard code to remedy the weaknesses of old browsers, it is transitional), why not simply use the Transitional doctype? There's no shame in it, and there are no bragging rights involved in using the Strict doctype on a document that does not adhere strictly to the HTML/CSS standard. I'm certainly not saying that your approach won't work, because clearly it has. I'm just saying, why label your apples as oranges if they're actually apples?
Brian Sexton Nervous Wreck (II) Inmate From: Sunnyvale, California (USA) Insane since: Nov 2001	posted 12-18-2001 10:25 Although CSS positioning may be recommended, the HTML 4.01 Strict specification does not limit what can be placed within tables. Eventually, I may do away with them except for boring chart use anyway--my new site does not currently use any--but the W3C validator says everything is fine even when non-text content is within tables, so I say it is fine too. As for why I am working with HTML 4.01 Strict now, that is easy: I am coding my sites for the present and the future--not the past--so I would be getting around to it at some point anyway and there is no time like the present to be working with current standards to learn their ins and outs.

Topic: Netscape 6 Image Table Spacing\$

Author

Thread

Brian Sexton
Nervous Wreck (II) Inmate

From: Sunnyvale, California (USA)
Insane since: Nov 2001

posted 11-19-2001 09:25

Has anyone encountered any peculiar spacing of images in tables under Netscape 6? It seems that I did something at some point that made Netscape 6 put spaces in some table cells which do not belong there. That or Netscape 6 changed (I amcurrently using Netscape 6.2 under Windows). Either way, I already tried adjusting the cell span properties and I am just not seeing the problem, so perhaps some fresh eyes might help.

My Personal Web Site

See anything wrong? Any ideas?

Thanks in advance for any insights.

mr.maX
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: Belgrade, Serbia
Insane since: Sep 2000

posted 11-19-2001 20:40

Instead of using HTML Strict document type, use HTML Transitional document type (i.e. <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"> ) and all gaps in tables will go away...

More information: http://www.evolt.org/article/rating/17/4427/index.html

Brian Sexton
Nervous Wreck (II) Inmate

From: Sunnyvale, California (USA)
Insane since: Nov 2001

posted 11-22-2001 22:10

Thanks, but I am trying to move forward by working with HTML 4.01 Strict. I have already done countless pages in HTML 4.01 Transitional.

mr.maX
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: Belgrade, Serbia
Insane since: Sep 2000

posted 11-22-2001 22:50

Personally, I don't care about HTML strict document type. There are still so many cross browser issues that can be resolved only by using non standard tags. Anyway, using HTML strict document type can only create trouble. Depending on web browser page will be rendered differently since each browser has different renderings for standards & quirks mode (read the article from the link that I posted above).

Anyway, you can still make your code HTML strict compatible, just don't specify HTML strict as document type...

Brian Sexton
Nervous Wreck (II) Inmate

From: Sunnyvale, California (USA)
Insane since: Nov 2001

posted 11-28-2001 07:52

With no DOCTYPE, it is not truly HTML 4.01 Strict.

kretsminky
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: A little lower... lower... ahhhhhh, thats the spot
Insane since: Jun 2000

posted 11-28-2001 09:55

deleted your accidental new topic

mr.maX
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: Belgrade, Serbia
Insane since: Sep 2000

posted 11-29-2001 19:23

Brian, as I've already said, I don't care about HTML strict document type. Only thing that I care about when making web sites is cross browser compatibility, which HTML strict cannot provide in most cases...

Brian Sexton
Nervous Wreck (II) Inmate

From: Sunnyvale, California (USA)
Insane since: Nov 2001

posted 12-08-2001 11:11

Eureka! I don't know if this will work all of the time (I have not yet tested it extensively), but the following will tell Netscape 6 and Mozilla to stop being stupid about spacing:

IMG { display: block }

Mr. Max, I too am interested in cross-browser compatibility, but not at the expense of standards. Non-conformance with standards is the very reason we have to test our HTML documents under multiple browsers.

Brian Sexton
Nervous Wreck (II) Inmate

From: Sunnyvale, California (USA)
Insane since: Nov 2001

posted 12-08-2001 23:31

One Problem With The Above Method:

Netscape 6 and Opera 6 will shift a text-align centered graphic to the left side of a larger containing element. Internet Explorer 6 leaves it alone.

Perfect Thunder
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Milwaukee
Insane since: Oct 2001

posted 12-09-2001 02:48

I'm not positive what you're doing with your tables, but it sounds like you're using them to position graphics. That, in itself, is a violation of the intent behind the "strict" HTML interpretation. If you're using the Strict definition, tables should be used only for the presentation of tabular data. CSS is your answer to everything else.

Brian Sexton
Nervous Wreck (II) Inmate

From: Sunnyvale, California (USA)
Insane since: Nov 2001

posted 12-12-2001 09:43

If CSS positioning were more reliable, I might use it more, but there are still some problems and composite images would look terrible if displayed in linear fashion in a non-CSS browser, so yes, I am still using tables for some image positioning. My code still validates as HTML 4.01 Strict.

Perfect Thunder
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Milwaukee
Insane since: Oct 2001

posted 12-16-2001 13:33

Understood. My objection is one of theory rather than of practice: if your document's code is transitional (and if it uses non-web-standard code to remedy the weaknesses of old browsers, it is transitional), why not simply use the Transitional doctype? There's no shame in it, and there are no bragging rights involved in using the Strict doctype on a document that does not adhere strictly to the HTML/CSS standard.

I'm certainly not saying that your approach won't work, because clearly it has. I'm just saying, why label your apples as oranges if they're actually apples?

Brian Sexton
Nervous Wreck (II) Inmate

From: Sunnyvale, California (USA)
Insane since: Nov 2001

posted 12-18-2001 10:25

Although CSS positioning may be recommended, the HTML 4.01 Strict specification does not limit what can be placed within tables. Eventually, I may do away with them except for boring chart use anyway--my new site does not currently use any--but the W3C validator says everything is fine even when non-text content is within tables, so I say it is fine too.

As for why I am working with HTML 4.01 Strict now, that is easy: I am coding my sites for the present and the future--not the past--so I would be getting around to it at some point anyway and there is no time like the present to be working with current standards to learn their ins and outs.

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Topic: Netscape 6 Image Table Spacing $Pages that link to <a href="https://ozoneasylum.com/backlink?for=10633" title="Pages that link to Topic: Netscape 6 Image Table Spacing" rel="nofollow" >Topic: Netscape 6 Image Table Spacing\$