Topic: Asylum Team Project #1 "The Ripper Report" (Page 1 of 3)

OK we are up and running and will use this thread to keep you upto speed

So, let's see some proposals, ideas, etc...

well WS, why don't you state what you had in mind first off, then we can bounce back ideas and such using your ideas as a template


[This message has been edited by synax (edited 06-26-2002).]

Ok, (I assume you've read the FAQ, and have kept track from the project thread...)

Logo - Red, with the letters Ripperreport...thought of making the 'R' a little tattered...or maybe claws going through it...

uh-huh... That's exactly what I was thinking about. At least we're on the same page!

I've got an idea. I'll play with it for a bit this weekend and post the results here. I'd love to hear what the other graphics folks are thinking.

[This message has been edited by bodhi23 (edited 06-25-2002).]

So. . . yeah. Do we just come up with some logo ideas and post them here first? I'll check out the FAQ on it.

Later,
C:\


~Binary is best~

It seems easier to me for the team to make a decision about it that way, with several ideas in front of us. But if someone's got a better process for that, let's hear it...

nod post all ideas images here etc and we can bash them around here

Cool. I will work on some logo ideas this weekend. I'm doing stuff for Karl's page tonight.

Later,
C:\


~Binary is best~

the general discussion area for the team project as a whole is here:
http://www.ozoneasylum.com/Forum1/HTML/004822.html

so fire all graphics etc specifically about the ripperreport here into this thread



[This message has been edited by tomeaglescz (edited 06-25-2002).]

As ZOX is part of the team and he is our colour expert perhaps he might want to give us a few ideas about some good colours to be looking at

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

mmm.. yes. Zox, deep red isn't showing up well on dark brown. some ideas for better contrast?

Question: because I'm listed as HTML, does this mean I can't contribute to graphics either?

Well, maybe we should come up with a template for the logo...you know, a 'flat' Ripperreport sort of thing...I know they did that for the GN...it's an interesting idea...and then the individual graphicers could then play with it from there...And I don't think deep red is correct...a bit more 'vivid', but not flourescent (if you know what I mean...)

Incidently, Zox is a great choice for the colors...I'm all for it. I was thinking about a dark, rich brown...sort of like dark earth, or dark coffee...but Zox is really the expert here.

As for the main page...well, since information is the main part of the site...the center should be devoted to that (IMHO)...while the left side should be devoted to info on what we are and what we are not...this is, IMHO, imperitive to what the site stands for...a serious approach to rip prevention. Also, under that should come all copyright info and links to such...for that is the next place one would look. As for the Nav, well, having a 'Nav bar' across the center under the logo area would not be bad...but I'm open to suggestions here. The right side could be used for breaking news in the scene, maybe a shoutbox (or suchwhat) and anything else that comes to mind...a 'traditional' site approach, if you will.

We could go about it by making a 'diagram template'....you know, sort of like a rectangle (the whole page), which is then divided up into sections...this would give us an idea of how the HTML setup will have to look. Also, it would allow for easier changes, as the HTML/CSS would not yet be done...just the areas of the main page, allowing for easy changes...

And then the font...always a tough choice. Any suggestions? Verdana, maybe?

As for the dynamic portion...who is responsible for programing? And the back-end? Just questions...

Man, I'm really pumped on this one...

I'll repost the team list tomeaglescz posted in the first thread - its Tom's call who should do what job:

Coding (Client and server side): WarMage;Maninacan
Graphics: ZOX,Bodhi,POI
HTML:Synax/Veneficuz
Site Content:WebShamen,Beekay
Project management:tomeaglescz,Emperor

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

I have to say...Red on brown, very ugly IMO.

Hey, you are talking about me!

As you might have noticed, my color page is not even working at the moment. (the host was moving to another server, and I am still waiting for the dns change to kick in)

As for the colors, I am sure all of you are just as good at judging that.

One version of dark brown is in fact just dark red, and this will match well with a brigther red color. I agree that red text on dark brown will not work very well, but both colors can still be used.

A common color scheme is to match a brigher red with white, black and perhaps a gray. And I think adding these colors to a dark red (brown) and a brigher red can look good.

Of course, it all depends on what feelings you want to induce with the colors. I think the bright colors againt a dark background (more contrast) can be to advantageus, as to say "these guys means business", instead of more mellow colors.

I have made two very preliminary ideas. Just to get things started. I am at work at the moment so I did not put much time into these. Especially since my lunch is over now and need to get back to work

Ok, here's a quick one just to give a visual on WS's suggestion. Again, I'm not a fan of the brown.

Ok, Mind you all, I'm playing with this at work, in between the other ordinary things that are going on.
Here's a little mock up that I have so far.

I used the yellow to bring the logo out from the background a little. I have plans for embellishment on this idea, but I thought I throw it out there to see where we might go from here. Feel free to rip, shread, beat, maul or anything else you feel like doing to the idea. Let's see what we can get out of it. Certainly we should not consider this item finished by any stretch of the imagination. It needs something else.

*slips back into the Lab, notices everyone else has also been hard at work*

Synax, I like the scratches on yours, but you are correct about that particular brown. It's not quite right.

Zox, your colors are much better that what I was thinking of. No wonder they said you was the color man!



[This message has been edited by bodhi23 (edited 06-25-2002).]

Here's another one, using ZOX's color scheme.


Alright, I'll take a breather and let some people discuss now

[This message has been edited by synax (edited 06-25-2002).]

synax - yer just busy busy busy aren't you...

ZOX: Nice work - I prefer the the first one as the eye is drawn to the content area.

synax & bodhi23: Nice work on the logo.

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

I think ZOX first color scheme is the better of the two as Emps said, the second one just doesn't feel right

_________________________
Anyone who has lost track of time when using a computer knows the propensity to dream, the urge to make dreams come true and the tendency to miss lunch.
- copied from the wall of cell 408 -

synax:
Clawmarks = good
Typography = terrible

Look for something chunkier, more bolded, filling more space between letters. What you have now is too spread out and "wispy". Plus I'd lose the serifs, they'll just draw away from the jagged quality of the rips.

Another thought might be to balance the word "report" at the end of "ripper" but running top to bottom, not left to right. Or bottom to top for that matter. Cleaner, saves a bit of room, and takes the emphasis off "report" so much. It'll seem more like a newsmag that way.

Typography was just the default that I had used the last time PS was used I'll use Impact like ZOX did. Chunky, as you said DG.

quote:

---

Another thought might be to balance the word "report" at the end of "ripper" but running top to bottom, not left to right. Or bottom to top for that matter. Cleaner, saves a bit of room, and takes the emphasis off "report" so much. It'll seem more like a newsmag that way

---

What do you mean? Have the word "report" underneath Ripper, or have it typed vertically? I don't understand.

All righty then. I'm checking in to say I'm still with y'all.

I've got content, eh? Well then it is my duty in that area to speak up about something ... All right, IMHO we as a team are heading right for all the bright shiny objects and zipping right by the meat of the project. What I mean is folks are excited about the logo, but not really overly concerned with everything else.

When I start on a site, I first figure out what the content is supposed to be, then I divide it up into sections and do a flowchart of pages. With that on the table, we can then see how big of a site we are talking about. Then it will be time to talk about site features, coding requirements, hardware concerns, etc. Then, and only then, will it be time to think of what graphics are needed to support and unify the whole. We need to analyze what we want the graphics to say about the site ... what look and feel the site will have (professional, relaxed, or whatever).

So, I am officially putting forth a motion that all graphic work be put on hold for the moment.

Secondly, the team leader needs to step away for a bit and put some careful thought into a timeline/workflow chart. Think about what needs to be done first and what follows that and what follows next, etc. Then publish the timeline/workflow chart and discuss it with the team. Make sure the team understands what is to happen and when. In other words, let's not get the cart before the horse ...

I think the logos are a perfect example of why we need to do all the above. Look at the logos for a moment. What will the site be about? I think it is about stealing graphics and such. In what way do the logos represent this? What in the world do claw marks have to do with it?! Nothing, IMHO. And why are we discussing color schemes right now? I think it is too early in the game to address that!

Let's circle the wagons and come up with a game plan. Team leader, your job is the hardest. You need to come up with a goal and then come up with the steps to move successfully towards that goal. Quite frankly, I have no desire to participate in a Chinese Fire Drill, folks.

If we put some serious thought into this, we will produce a GREAT website. If we just launch the ship without clear orders and hope all hands know the drill, then we are headed for frustration and disaster.

Anyone want to second my motion?

EDIT: The FAQ has the beginnings of a workflow chart. A lot of information is there, but that information needs to be organized, talked about, fleshed out, given priorities, etc. Tomeaglescz, that FAQ writeup is a very rough draft of the workflow chart. Take it and mold it into a game plan.

Cell Number: 494

[This message has been edited by BeeKay (edited 06-26-2002).]

There's a difference between getting something done and talking about getting something done. I'm all for doing up an HTML template and such, but there are things I need to know before getting started. I've added a few of you to my ICQ list (although I have yet to actually get in contact) and if you'd like to do the same my UIN is 9815609.

My reason for starting with the logo is that it's something I can work on without needing something from others. In order to start making an HTML template, I need to know what sections there will be, the content of those sections and how tom and/or WS want the overall layout of the site to work.

I agree that content should be first and foremost, but I don't think that's a reason to put aside any other aspects of the project if people are willing to work on them.

[This message has been edited by synax (edited 06-26-2002).]

Then you missed my point. How can we work on the logo if we haven't discussed a direction for it in the first place? Don't get me wrong ... I'm not trying to tick people off or take over ... I just want things to go smoothly.

In my experience, a team leader never just says "OK, go make some logos. I'm looking forward to what you come up with." Heck no! The team leader gives some direction as to what the logo is to mean and what message it is to convey. I remember reading a story about how the new logo for TNN was designed. It was a detailed and painstaking process with zillions of revisions. But it all started with some direction. Without talking about color or specific image ideas, it started with words and desired reactions and in what various mediums the logo would be used in ...

Just my 2 cents. I'll shut up now till some other folks poke their heads in here ...

Cell Number: 494

There are many different paths to enlightment - we all have different ways of doing things (I would tend to approach things in a similar way to BeeKay) and the important thing is that we end up with the best finished result possible. I'd suggest we sit tight and wait for Tom to give further guidance

Synax: I got your request and have approved it

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

I agree with BeeKay, or at least to a certain degree.

I always try to start with the content, so I know what will be on the site, before I get started. Not so that I have every single word written, but so I have an idea of what will be on the page, and think about the best way to present it. - Which part will need special emphasis, and what is of less importance.

But I think that even more important than the content is to try to decide what the purpose of the site will be, and what feelings it should convey. Fun? Serious? Hip? Professional? Cool? Simplistic? Unobtrusive? etc.
And based on this I start with the design. And in this process, I think selecting the colors is the first thing to do.

I do think that in a project like this it is possible to work parallell in some ways.
The structure and direction needs to be decided first, but then it is possible for the graphic people and content people to work side by side.

Good work on the logos so far. I guess my personal taste is probably a bit more conservative, but again, the look of the logo is all depended on what feeling we want it to convey.
On a site like this, which is all about the content, I think simple is often better when it comes to the graphics.

I think this will be fun

Yes. Good point BeeKay...Tom? What's your thoughts on this?

@ Zox...man, great color scheme! I really like the first one...

As for the graphics...yes, I like the direction it is going...nice to see DG giving tips...

why did I 'throw' the logo out there? Well, I know what it is like, being a graphiker myself on many projects...one sits, and waits...I thought I'd give the graphikers something to chew on while we get the colors, content, layout, etc formed up. That removes the 'preliminary work on the graphikers...they now have an idea where it could go, and the initial problems can be rapidly overcome. Yes, I knew before hand that it was mostly just an exercise, and that the logo could change form...but seeing something helps immensely, and inspires...good preliminary work, I might add...listen to DG, he's got good ideas, and lots of experience in the area...and please, don't piss him off...thanks for the tips, DG, more would be welcome...

Getting busy on content...I'll be adding more as the day progresses...

Tom, maybe a flow chart on the design process? Sort of like the Doc did (outpatient forum) maybe?

All in all, this thing is coming together...great work, everybody! Now if I could just get this peacepipe out of my behind...

wooo, i finish early one day and it gets busy all of a sudden Hey guys nice work!

OK let me try and tackle some of your questions

1.Beekay is right about content and aims this has to be done first.

so. here is how i see an outline for the site as far as content goes

The Public Area (General Viewing)

1.Who is behind the ripper report and why and what is the ripper report
2.Its mission staement
3.form for submitting potential rips to the ripper report
4.a follow up on investigations that the site has undertaken
5.A guide on how to protect your work (things such as how to prove prior knoweledge etc.)
6.general tips on what to do if you think your work has been ripped off.
7.some legal disclaimers etc.
8. a place where people could lodge copyrighted material (future part of site maybe)

the team area (password protected)

now this is the day to day meat of the site and will take the longest to do

we need.

1.a forum/bbs where discussions etc can take place on each investigation
2.a database holding all information of ripped material in case of re-appearance
3.a database of known rippers etc.
4.guidelines of what to do under what circumstances.
5.legal guidelines so our asses are covered in cases like people saying we have maligned their character by calling them a ripper etc.

feel free to add to this list with any great ideas

now my approach to this is for the team to agree on the content etc, i can then produce a flow chart for the site, now for one i am all for template based sites as it makes for easier updates etc. At the moment we still havent 100% agreed or understood the exact nature of the site and its contents, so lets get that buried first, remember the stuff that you go through when you actually work for a client:

1.Get his requirements
2.produce a spec for the site
3.do draught interface design with dummy links etc so the client can get a feel for the site's looks
4.build content
5.lastly put the whole thing together.

now the guys doing the backend work need to know what programming scripting support the hosting company provides for example, this needs to be addressed so WS if you can let me know that

The graphics team need to start playing with concepts that will be easily manipulated by the html team, once we have got all the content decided as in what goes on which pages the actual interface can be started on..

this is a big project and could easily fall into chaos if not planned first.. I want to try if possible to keep the team as is, i.e. what ya listed as doing please stick to unless ya come upo with something really earth shattering, next project you will be working on something different

So let's get the content decided on i will put a flow chart for the site up then, aswell as a timeline for the project etc.

What I want to avoid is exactly whats happened here, but thats to be expected on a first run, everyone is keen and i am really happy about it, but this could get very chaotic very quickly, lets take a deep breath, pause and look at what the site needs, and then we can tackle it.

ok sorry for the long post and the delay in responding to it, if at all possible i want to get the content bashed out as far as what is going where and what we want exactly by friday, now after that i am on holliday for a few weeks, i havent had a break from work in 9 months . but i will put the flow chart etc together in that time.

ok i probably failed to address some things here but i think i have covered most of the key areas...

so guys look through my thoughts on the public and private area and think if there is something i have missed...i'm only human don't forget this is a team project we will all be counting on each other....

cheers tom

Ok, thanks for the heads up Tom...

As for the back-end...well, I believe we will be working with MySQL...as for the programming code...I'm not sure...PHP? This is really out of my league...I do know that we need a dynamic 'front door' so to speak...so that the information can be updated quickly from maybe a DB?

Also, we need to decide on what kind of forum we wish to go with (ubb, etc)...that, in turn (when I'm reading this right) will help in deciding how the rest of it could be done...

So which parts are dynamic? Well, mostly the 'ripper' information, and the news...(new laws, etc). The site policy, and who we are (and what we are not) should remain static...as well as copyright material and links...

We also need a search engine function...that just occured to me...so that people can do searches on rippers, etc. That should also (IMHO) be on the front page...probably also in the lefthand column...

And, of course, the disclaimer...I believe we need that for protection purposes...I will be adding law insurance (internet) to my bills for this *sigh* so that, in the case we have to go to court, it will be covered...that will remove the threat of lawsuit action against us...(and with what I've seen on the pixel police site, it occurs rather often, at least the threat thereof).

I am getting to work on the who and why and the mission statement.

Have I missed anything?

[This message has been edited by WebShaman (edited 06-26-2002).]

Ok, here is a preliminary WHO WE ARE AND WHY...please, critique!

Welcome to the RipperReport. As the net continues to grow, more and more artists
and designers have left their mark on it. New ideas spring up, spread, only to be
replaced by newer ones. As Big Business has not only started to get interested, but
also becomes a main part of the net, we entered a new phase, one of money, time, brands
and ownership. Because of this, competiton has increased, and deadlines and budgets are
tight. This is a normal process, even though most might say it is unwanted. The net is
losing its lawlessness as more and more 'discover' the net...

However, many people have began to resort to using other peoples ideas, designs and graphics
without permission, which is illegal. Currently, this type of 'ripping' has devolped into
a trend, one with damaging consequences to all. Not only are artists and designers affected
by this, but also businesses. Many professionals have put a lot of time and effort into their
work (not to mention the time and effort it takes to develope the skills), only to see their
creations, ideas, and artwork being blatently used by others without permission, or even credit.

Before, one could not really protect oneself against such threats. There were no laws, and
it was very easy for the perpetrators to just ignore someones complaints. But now there are
laws, and there are many communities out there, who are willing to protect its memebers. However,
these communities are isolated, and though rightly able to police their own members against
such criminals, it is a growing problem of criminals who are stealing that are not members of
such communities. Also, the size of the net has become so large, that such criminal activity
can go almost unnoticed, and the problem has become one of such epic proportions, that single
communities are being overwhelmed with the size and mass of the problem. Also, information is
not being shared between the communities, thus making the tracking of new and repeat offenders
difficult, if not impossible. And that is where we come in.

The RipperReport is conglomerate project devoted to bringing communities together for protection
means against this current trend, and for the spreading of information in the net on such criminals.

We are all professionals, who have time and again dealt with this problem, from small in-community
ripping, to full-blown, whole site stealing. In each instance, it has become apparent, that
though laws against such criminal acts are in place, very few actually care (or even know that
they are stealing). A few were even proud of their actions, and were somewhat annoyed with
our attempts to set things to right. It quickly became evident of the enormous amount of time
and effort it takes to persue such criminals and to actually prove each case in question. But
it didn't just end there. After collecting proof, then begins the process of gathering support
against the perp in an attempt to get them to remove the said stolen material. Here we met with
very stout disbelief, and had to prove our case time and again, before anyone would even bother
with such things.

In the light of such difficulties, considering that we are victims and not perpetrators, we decided
to change that, to do something about it. And that is how the RipperReport was born.

Shaping up nicely here - things seem to be seetling out into some general areas:

Who we are (what this is and what it isn't)

Information Area (what to do if you are ripped or think there has been a potential rip, information on copyright, stuff on making ripping more difficult [the right and wrong ways], etc.).

The Ripper Report (where evidence of persistent offenders is collected).

A Discussion Area (if you are using PHP/MySQL then one of the UBB clones like PHPBB will be fine).

A News Section (to provide a dynamically updated front page)

Anything else I've missed? Getting the sections sorted means we can get an idea of the site structure, the navigation, sections people need to work on, etc. and it is looking good from here

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

One other area I think could be useful is to more detailed definition of what a rip is.

What is just "inspired by" as oppose to ripped.
Can a color scheme be ripped? a piece of code? text? images? etc.
There seems to be misconceptions in both directions on this
- people yelling "ripper!" for sites which are inspired by, but not exact copies of others
- rippers arguing "but I did not use his graphics!" (they only made an *exact* copy of it)

This can also be combined with more information on copyright, since that's really what it is.

[This message has been edited by ZOX (edited 06-26-2002).]

Zox, read this http://www.whatiscopyright.org/ in answer to your questions...I'll be contacting the webmaster of this material...I want it on this site! If I can't get it, then at least a link...it's some of the best stuff I've seen on copyright on the net...

Ok, it looks like we're headed into the right direction then. I'll miss not being able to do graphics, but I'll just work that much harder on the (X)HTML I've read through all the posts and it sounds good. Anxiously awaiting a flow chart of some sort so we have one solid "list" to look at and check things off as we complete them. I wish some of you (Emps, WS, tom, veneficuz) would actually use ICQ

I use ICQ...I believe my number is under my info here...however, as I am in Germany, it's very difficult to be 'online' at the same time as you all are...I do most of this from work, and I don't have ICQ there (but I do at home).

Boy Howdy! A lot got posted in 24 hours! I think the idea of getting us started on the logo first was just a way for us to get our feet wet while we figured out what the heck was supposed to be going on. It got us all thinking about the image of the site, right? Works for me...
The shreds and the claw marks were, I believe, intended to convey the whole "ripping" idea... 'Cause that's what I thought about when I heard the name. But no one says it has to be that way.

Since we've gotten started and I'm looking at the vastness that this site is becoming, and I'm looking at my schedule and my current projects, (of which this makes 3, plus a full-time job and family) I think I'm going to have to back off a little. I'd like to sort of shadow the graphics team, because this is sort of On-the-Job training for me. I'd love to be able to keep up with the progress, and maybe share input, and of course ask questions, but I don't want to hold up the process because I don't quite know what I'm doing.
I'm excited about the learning possibilities of a project like this, and thought I would have time to get in on it, but I know I want to devote more than 1/16th of my time to it, and I don't think it would be fair to you guys for me to give you less attention than you deserve. But if you're all agreeable, I'd love to observe the whole project and see exactly what goes into this whole business. Thanks for including me in the first place!