Topic: Asylum Team Project #1 "The Ripper Report" (Page 2 of 3)

bodhi, dont worry everyone is in the same boat, we dont expect everyone to devote masses of time to this, if you still want to contribute that's great by me and after seeing some of ya stuff so far i think that even a small time will go a long way . That said if you want to shadow or help the graphics team feel free to do so, this is a volunteer project so do what ever feels right for you.

tom

synax: I've usually got ICQ running as long as I've got a computer switched on. However, so I can get some work done I'm invisible. If anyone needs me drop me a line and if I'm around I'll get back to you asap

bodhi: I must say that ripper brings Jack the Ripper to mind for me - foggy London streets and a sinister man in a cape with a doctors bag lurking in the shadows ready to pounce

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

Tom, thanks. That takes a load off. I'm afraid I'll have to let the bulk of the graphics fall on Zox and synax at this time around. But I do want to watch the process and offer some input. I just don't want to spread myself too thin, if ya know what I mean...

Emps - hmm... yeah, it could go that way too... creepy!

Sorry, but I gotta disagree with the whole ripper image thing discussed so far. Once again, what do claw marks have to do with stealing graphics? The icon/logo should be more about theft, catching a thief, stealing, etc. Have an icon with a faded out copy of it underneath to represent lifting a graphic from the original. That's the first thing that came to my mind. I suggest not letting the name "ripper" distract from the meaning we are actually shooting for.

Tonight I will take a closer look at the content example WS posted and see what I can contribute along those lines. Tom, what do you envision my role in 'content' being? Writing text? Anything else?

Cell Number: 494

BeeKay -
You make a good point about the logo. That's actually the reason I had asked WS if he had any preconceived notions as to what the logo ought to be. Considering we hadn't even gotten into the content bit of it yesterday. Cart before the horse, as you say... But it appears that the team is regrouping and getting organized at this point now, so likely, the logo would have been reworked anyway to fit in better.

I like the double image idea, that'd be cool...

(I'm pretty sure we were joking about the whole "Jack the Ripper" bit...)

[This message has been edited by bodhi23 (edited 06-26-2002).]

bodhi23: I don't joke. If someone is thinking of working disembowelled prositutes into the design then it would probably be a good idea not to go down that path.

Although synax has done a nice job with that rip effect (which also gives the idea that stuff is being ripped from the page) there isn't any reason why we should be so literal - we could concentrate on the report theme (ZOX's design, with the iatliced text, gives some feeling of a report).

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

Disembowelled prostitutes? um... no. But the more I think about it, the shadowy figure could work well into the whole "thief in the night" idea.

But since we're being serious, probably Zox's idea is the best way to go. I think in this case, the content of the site is going to be much more important than the graphics, due to the very nature of the site. But I'll go back to the shadows myself and see how it all unfolds now.

Hmmm...hidden in a pool of show, a shillouhette, with only the glint of the eyes, the light of the cigarrette and the moonlight reflecting off the scalpel blade to give away his presence.

Koan 63, written on the wall of cell number 250:
Those who Believe
Can
Those who Try
Do
Those who Love
Live

Hi folks well i see you have all been busy again

OK....

Here's my 0.2

1.The rip fx on logo i dont think looks professional i like some of the other ideas being put forward.
2.Beekay with your experience in writing content, i was hoping that you could shape what ws has has to say into the actual wording that will appear on the site, so as far as content goes i mean the actuall text that will appear so you need to work closely with WS on this.
3.Zox and the rest of the graphic guys start looking towards building a mock up front page using the colours that we are working with at the moment, the areas will be along the lines of those that emps put forward.

there will be two distinct areas to the site one private for those involved in the project and one public for info and reporting rips so ya need to think about this too, ie login form on page.

4.the programming guys you need to start to think about how we are going to create the databases and forums etc and then drop the info into the templates that the graphics team produces, so talk to each other so that you can give each other what can and cant e done easily.

i am on holliday from close of business today but to give you a rough game plan so you can start to mould things together this is how i see the site area by area.

front page.

1.on load mission text that should appear is who we are what we are doing and why?
2.login for private area.
3.links to the following

ripper report.

information center
(form to report a rip)
(copyright info and how to protect your work)
(Steps and guidelines if ripped or see rips)

4.private area

Forum/discussion area
admin center (ie add new news and info)

this is a tie up of all the suggestions so far feel free to add comments or further topics.

so this will give you the basic navigation, dont forget that a lot of information will be dynamic so keep the pages like news sections ripper report template based using SSI's etc.

I will check in as often as i can on how things are going but you guys have Emps in the background who also has a hell of a lot of project management experience, listen to what he has to say, he will give you great sound and straight dpwn the line advice.

WS/Emps has everyone involved in the team now got a username and password for the site?

Remember guys this for some is a first team project, it can get crazy it can get confusing and sometimes damn frustrating, but when you see all the little bits start to come together its amazing.

Sorry to leave you guys at such an early stage but this is about the only time i can see me actually getting sometime off this side of christmas, i already had to cancel my visit home to england.

OK try and get any burning questions fired into here asap if they need to be addressed by me as i will do my best to answer them before i leave.

Thanks again everyone for the time and effort and commitment you are putting into this.

AND one more thing leave the knives at home.....

*peers into the mist*

Thanks Tom...we'll miss you, buddy. Have fun.

Ok, troops, I'm in a really ugly mood at the moment...I need some time to get my emotions straight...

Please consider what Tom has said...

Beekay, you can mail me anytime you like, regarding questions, tips, etc.

Well, all in all, I'm very satisfied with what has come out so far...I think this team has great potential...keep up the good work.

tomeaglescz: Hope you have a good holiday - that should enough to keep the project rolling along happily.

I would like to see the coders pop their heads in - WarMage I think you should be lead coder on this given your experience if you are OK with that? I suppose the first step would be to identify the main areas that need work - off the top of my head there is the forum, some JavaScript rollovers probably, some includes and a user authentication system to separtae a work side from a public side (I presume this can be plumbed into the forum?). Any other thoughts?

WS: I presume people contact you for the FTP details?

To the graphics people: Just have a play around with ideas (for logos, layouts, buttons, etc.) - it might be best if you uploaded them to site.

Any other ideas?

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

Ok, Emps, I'm all for that...I've got the ftp stuff (and so does Tom...). For ftp access, please use this mail address michael.hamilton@sap.com

This is a serious mail address...so don't use it to BS...otherwise I'll start blocking mails...if you want to BS, etc, use my normal mail under my info...

Let'er rip!!!!

So just to clear something up, we're going for a professional look, right? Not casual or sarcastic, etc? Clean, wholesome fun?

hmm...
Am I supposed to upload any graphic ideas to the site? How do I do that?

This is just a very simple first sketch. It is a fairly clean, rather cliche design, based on the little color scheme thing I made.
Not sure I like the graphic to the right, but I kept it because it made me curious - would this be considered to be a sort of "rip" of IE? Since it is from an IE screenshot. Just curious.

As I said, very simple, and just a first idea.
http://www.webwhirlers.com/rr3.gif

Orders received, sir!

This weekend I will take a look at what WS posted and do some editing. I then will rough up some thoughts about other pages and shoot them out to WS for his consideration.

Things moving along nicely .... good to go!

Cell Number: 494

Hey ZOX, I like the idea of the "Save Target As..." screenshot in the title. We could also include the "Print Screen" button or something too

synax: I don't think we are ruling too much out at the moment so have a play with a few ideas and themes.

ZOX: That link doesn't seem to work.

Anyway if people have ideas then they can upload their sketches, etc. to the site (email WS for the FTP details using the address he gives above). I have created a folder for you all to drop stuff into (I've added the images that have already been posted here):
www.ripperreport.com/graphics/

Beekay: Thats exactly what we are looking for - the wording of things will be very important.

Keep up the good work.

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

Oh Jesus.

Cooks.

Broth.


Okee boys and girls, it goes like this: Team Project or not, you're going to need team leaders.

1) Managerial - A small group overseeing the entire site so as to collate properly and keep the teams running syncruently. One IA is usually nice, but the politics of "boss" need to be left by the wayside. People should listen to the Managerial staff and add where possible, but not sit around infighting because they want more credit. The Managerial needs to have clear vision and scope and understand how to deal with people while not losing sight of the goal, and constantly keeping in touch with each team and team leader.

2) Backend functionality - putting together a group of coders to deal with the server-side and dynamic aspects of the site itself. The Backend boys (sounds a bit...sketchy) need to be focusing on all the functionality that the Managerial staff is looking to implement. Everyone has a voice, but consider the chain on this one so as not to bog yourselves down in too much "funky new experimental" shit, and lose sight of the goal.

3) Markup - another team focused only on the markup. It would be nice to be able to institute a site that sticks to standards, and degrades well so that there's no browser issues or platform faults. The markup team needs to work close with the graphics geeks to try and get it all in, but shouldn't have a problem saying "this is too much...but we could do this.."

4) Frontend - The last team is working on the graphical disply and design. There needs to be a bit of a liaison with the markup kids here as well as some idea tossing between them and the backend folks, but all in all these guys are in charge of the look. Doing mockup designs is fine, keeping in mind that fluidity, simplicity, colour palettes, usability, and function within form are all issues that need to be met. Focusing on a logo is nice, but it needs focus, not just running around aimlessly and trying to be the "winner". The design team needs an experienced leader who knows what he/she is actually there for, instead of trying to make it "so cool". The designers working with him have to be able to listen, add, and still execute without a lot of whining or dependence on trying to be "the winner" yet again.

A team project isn't about individual merit, and it sure as fuck isn't about being the big man on campus, or strewing twenty chiefs amongst no braves.

Think about it guys, give it some real thought and structure before jumping. Many a dead site lay in the ruins of bad team planning and lack of organization by trying to make "everyone feel equally important"...bollocks.


Peter

Would an acceptable idea be to create three or four separate threads so that each team has their own 'conference room?' I can see graphics, backend, content, etc. conversations getting tangled and confused if restricted to one thread.

Good points DarkGarden. But how feasible is your input based on the small number of people we have working on this particular project?

Cell Number: 494

Beekay: Its perfectly feasible DG, as usual, speaks the truth. As long as you've got a few people you can start diviidng jobs up. Luckily Tom has already drawn up the list before starting this thread (and I reposted it above):

Coding (Client and server side): WarMage;Maninacan
Graphics: ZOX,Bodhi,POI
HTML:Synax/Veneficuz
Site Content:WebShamen,Beekay
Project management:tomeaglescz,Emperor

Tom's leading and I'm making sure things tick over in his absence.

Clearly WS is leading the content area with plenty of input from Beekay.

I've asked WarMage to lead the coding (PHP/JavaScript) and identify the jobs that are needed (suggestions above). I would like the coding guys to stick their noses in to confirm they are on the job though. I've asked WS to check that the MySQL database is up and running so it is ready to go.

Graphics and HTML are on the backburner and I'm just looking for people to throw in ideas and their thoughts on the layout. I would like ZOX to headup the graphics team as I know his work better

[edit: As we are in the very earilest stages of the project (we are still waiting for 3 team members to poke their noses in - I will be emailling people tomorrow if they still haven't turned up) I'm quite happy to have a little brainstorming session with people throwing in ideas and thoughts before we really knuckle down and start assigning clearly defined roles]

DG is right that we need to make some decisions on the HTML/CSS even if we aren't going to start throwing that aspect together quite yet. The basic question is should we go for a CSS-only design or throw a table or two in to keep older browsers happy. My general feeling is that we will be getting a wide range of people visitng and that we should make it look as good in NS4.x as it does in other browsers. Thoughts?

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

Well we can try to make a CSS only site, working with as few tables as possible, or we can mix it up. What if we make seperate templates for seperate browsers? Since everything will be updated dynamically, and using SSIs this is possible. Just a suggestion.

synax: I think we should avoid that as much as possible - as far as I'm concerned we either go for a standards compliant design and make it degrade in older browsers or we throw a table or two into the design. I really don't want to be dealing with different templates for different browsers.

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Emps

FAQs: Emperor

ok then, that's settled Now we need to decide on a layout so veneficuz and I can bang out the markup for it.

synax: I like that entusiasm However, we should hold off on the HTML/CSS for the moment until we have colours, layout and 'feel' finalised (or close to anyway). My advice would be to throw some sketches and ideas in on the general layout/logo ideas.

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Emps

FAQs: Emperor

OK I've had a bit of a chat with synax which raised a couple of points:

1. We'll be aiming at a XHTML transitional DOCTYPE

2. synax proposed a XML news/data feed so that other sites could have updated information but I suggested we should wait and see - hopefully we should be able to sort a lot of things out quietly without making a big fuss but it depends on traffic. Something to bear in mind.

Beekay: A further thought I had was that it might be a good idea if you drew together a short list of keywords we want to hit and we can make sure they are in the metatags and sprinkled throughout the text.

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

First of all, a big thanks to DG...his advice is very sound (IMHO).

As for the site itself, yes, it's serious...and should reflect the serious nature thereof. Why? Because of the central 'theme', if you will. If we do not approach the 'ripping' problem seriously, and professionally, we will end up in trouble quickly. Also, we need to be taken seriously by the many different communities. Consider that the information that will be provided is of a very serious nature, and if done improperly, can have devastating reprecussions. We have all seen what can happen with such things...I think the Eyeball-design thing is a very good example of what can go wrong...and such things must be avoided at all costs...

Emps has the lowdown on the compatibility issue...

I will be waiting for BeeKay's reply, and will be working closely with him on the content...looking forward to 'jamming' with the Jar head...just kidding!. Seriously, it will be a great honor to work with him.

As Emps said, I'm looking to get the mySQL thing on the boards...I will try to get it activated as soon as possible. Thanks, Emps, for the heads up.

For the others...you can either drop me or Emps a mail for the logon...we both have it, now.

In conclusion, yes folks, it's coming together. As we form together into a team, it just gets better and better. Nice to see that we are shaping up into a professional group. Let's keep up the good work, everyone! Onwards!

Ok, the mySQL databank is now up and going...wow, that was fast! For those needing to access it, please drop me (or Emps) a mail, I'll send the instructions and the password...(or he will)


[This message has been edited by WebShaman (edited 06-28-2002).]

For some reason, I thought synax was on the graphics team.... my mistake!


If POI doesn't poke his head in, and/or is no longer interested, I will be more than happy to take a more active role in the graphics side so that ZOX doesn't have to work it all up by his lonesome. Zox, I'm still learning, so lead on! and I will follow...

Different threads might be a good idea, but it might be just as easy to have the different teams communicate with each other by email directly, and then post collective ideas back here. Since graphics is on the back burner for now, I may have some time to clean up my current projects and free up for this one! Valuable experience, it is...

Uhhh...bohdi, you are on the graphics team...

quote:

---

Graphics: ZOX,Bodhi,POI

---

Ok, let's get organized, and get going!

I'll be pretty hard to reach over the weekend...so please use my 'normal' mail address (rawn_phoenix@web.de) for anything on the weekend...

*the furthest my involvement into this project will be*

you all should probably have a long hard look at http://www.cert.org/ . Not the design (cause it's kinda pukey), but the manner in which they disseminate information and find answers.. they've got a real working formula there...


Code - CGI - links - DHTML - Javascript - Perl - programming - Magic - http://www.twistedport.com
ICQ: 67751342

Thanks Petskull...I'm looking at it now...

nah, I'm not on the graphics team, just slightly overzealous

OK we are still looking for the following to stick their noses in here and say if they are onboard or not:

WarMage
maninacan
POI

I'll leave it a few hours and then I'll email people to check to see if they are onboard - I'd like to know where the team stands by tomorrow and if committments mean you have to step out of this project then thats fine but I will need to know so I can bring replacements into the team.

I'd also like to confirm what IM service people are on:

Me: ICQ (although I have Trillian installed if we are on different services)
Synax: ICQ
Veneficuz: ICQ
WarMage: ICQ
Webshaman: ICQ

Make sure your profiles here are up to date as once things get moving we might need to move to IM to thrash ideas out quickly.

[edit: Added WM and WS to list of IM]

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

WS, I had asked a day or so ago that I be allowed to be a background participant as I've not a lot of experience here. (see above) But, if POI, who hasn't stuck his nose in yet, is not going to be involved, or is less involved than I had intended to be, then I didn't want Zox to have to work on all the graphics alone.

I used to be on ICQ, but don't stay online enough in the evenings to have justified installing it when I built my new system. I am connected to the internet from 8-5 US/EST during work hours and check my email frequently during the day. I have updated my profile so that you guys can read it now. Sorry about that.


[This message has been edited by bodhi23 (edited 06-28-2002).]

synax et al: For what I was saying about the typography, this was basically what I was getting at...



The placement and blocking of your lettering is very important. Now whatever "effects" you want afterwards are really personal choice, but typography is very important. I used Impact for the example, but anything solid with good letter weight will convey the serious attitude and professional scheme. Try juggling your words around to show the importance of each in the phrasing.

As for your "logo" dilemma: I always have the same stock answer. Make something simplistic, recognizable, that can be broken down to minimal colours and lineart if possible.

blah blah blah.

DG: Very nice indeed - simple yet effective

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

Thanks DG...a picture is worth a thousand words...and you have a very good way of doing pictures...someday, someday...*sigh* Pssst! Bring back the Path!

Ok, folks, DG has shown us something not only interesting, but important...let's see where we can go from there...

bodhi23: You are either in or out We will need 3 graphics people on board - there will be customising the message board, etc. Its fine if you only want a minor role but I'm confident that we'll find plenty of things for you to do and that you'll be up to the job

WS: DG has certainly set a high standard - it should prove a nice challenge for everyone

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

OK emails have been sent to our missing team mates - if we still haven't heard anything in 24 hours then I'm going to have to get some replacements in. The ideas are starting to become better defined and I want to start turning things up a notch in the next day or so so its is vital that we have the team confirmed (we really need to start work on the actually coding asap).

Keep thrwoing ideas and thoughts in while we are in the early stages and then we can start defining people's roles more clearly.

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

Nah..Path is dead for the foreseeable future. Not interested in life on/in the box.


Back to the meat of the matter: The typography was just an example. I think it can be taken to a higher-class level and integrated with a good logo. If Zox wants to contact me in regards to the typog at any point, he should feel free. I think with the level of exposure you want here, concentrating on clean code, clean design, and less fluff in the graphic department is intrinsic.

KISS

Sorry for not poking in sooner.

I don't get to check out all of the board often. When I get my 10 minutes I tend to just pop into Server Side Coding and see what I can do in there.

Ok, so... PHP/JavaScript...

There are a bunch of ideas floating around out there. So lets hit the actual areas that will need some attention. What type of content are we providing, what kinds of personal interaction will we need.

I really liked the XML idea for sending off our content to other sites, however, I think we need to worry about the current site's data before we go mucking around with giving other sites this data.

So...

I think that some of the content people should be throwing me off an e-mail telling me what type of content they will want to present. Along with what type of content we would like to get from the visitors (i.e. data collecting).

The managers will also need to give me some input on the direction we will be taking with the template system, as in how can I make your life easier.

I don't have huge blocks of time right now. So I can not say I will be popping my head in here every couple of hours. But if you would be so kind as to give me the specs in my email I am sure I could draft up some stuff for all of you.

Oh, and by the way. Do we have a "proposal" type thing floating around. This would be that nifty file that lays down what we are trying to achomplish and basic ideas around how we would achomplish it. I need to see the big picture before I can even attempt to make the little stuff work.

warmage_666@hotmail.com