Topic awaiting preservation: Trouble in the West Sea... (Page 1 of 1)

I know things like this don't usually get posted here, but I'll give it a go anyway. Here's some background info.

I'm just really aggravated right now. OK, "pissed off" would be a better term. Why now? Why couldn't they just let us celebrate the World Cup while it lasted? What in God's name were they thinking?

I saw a news story on Saturday night, after the Turkey-Korea match. They showed an interview with a sailor, who shared his thoughts on the World Cup and the upcoming match. It was not aired before the match, but events that day suddenly made it a very important interview. Why? Because it is the last his friends and family will ever see of him. He's dead now, one of four who were killed in the battle. That's not to mention the thirty or so DPRK sailors who were killed.

It makes me sick and angry. Personally, I have never agreed with President Kim's "sunshine policy." Why? Because a policy deals with a government, and the North Korean government is a collection of irrational, megalomaniacal cult members. I have said time and time again that the sunshine policy will never work--the only way we will ever get through to the North is if there is a people's revolution. I truly understand the desire to help North Koreans (there are many divided families on the peninsula, so it's not simply a matter of "us versus them"), but you have to be an idiot to think the common people are ever going to see any of that food aid. That food is going straight into the bellies of North Korean soldiers, all of whom are told that South Korea is the devil incarnate.

Yes, Kim won the Nobel Peace Prize for his efforts, but that prize is not going to bring peace to this peninsula. I don't care how many positive summit meetings the two leaders may have. Kim Jeong-il will smile and shake your hand and then turn around and stab you in the back. In fact, that's what happens all the time here.

I'm probably not making much sense here, and this may be a bit confusing to someone not familiar with the situation. I just needed to vent a little. Unfortunately, I don't feel that much better.

"cursed are the thinkers" Suho

being aware of humanity is a big thing to have to deal with. You have to realise that this is 'bigger' than you or I.

Let it go, bare no grudge or make no judgement, it is something that is beyond your control so getting worked up about it is in a way sort of ludicrous.

Let 'them' do what they have too

peace

Ludicrous? I don't think that reacting emotionally to the world around me is ludicrous.

I am, of course, well aware that this is bigger than me. Now that would be ludicrous--thinking that somehow this thing is not bigger than me. That's not going to change the way I feel about what has happened, though.

Also, if I may be so bold, I would say that distance from a situation allows one to look at said situation in a more objective way. In other words, try living in the middle of it.

If you are one of those enlightened souls who is at complete peace with the world and all its crap, then more power to you. I, however, have not quite reached that stage yet.

Still bitter and pissed off... don't mind me.

Well Master Suho...don't blame the leaders of South Korea...why? Because they offered the North Korean people a helping hand? Maybe that food doesn't reach the people...now whos fault is that? A gesture of humanitarism and help is not something that one should ever see as negative.

On the contrary...it shows that South Korea has no ill-will against the people of North Korea...and demonstrates just that. Such things do have a very powerful effect...and I'm sure that the people of North Korea know that...irregardless of the 'party line'...in today's world, information flows...

So why the attack? That should be obvious...the leaders of North Korea are desperate...and cornered animals are the most dangerous and unpredictable of all. You should consider exactly why this is so...and why North Korea did this. South Korea just had the one of the best world championships of all time (and I don't just mean the Korean team...). So, the North Koreans (the leadership...who else?) needed a way to 'annouce' to the world that, yes, they are still there. And that, yes, the problems of old still exist...but keep in mind that they are the remenants of a dead system...proven not to work...and that, yes, they too, shall fall.

Don't let these events cloud your humanity. Because that's exactly what the North is counting on. That's what they want. I'm pretty sure that there will be more...North Korea has suffered years of drought, starvation, and very hard times...and these faults lie at the feet of it's leadership...what better way to distract the people then a war? So I'm pretty sure that this is just the tip of the iceberg...be prepared for more of such 'posturing' and instigations...

Though I imagine that the South Koreans are pretty upset (who wouldn't be, considering the circumstances), and I feel deeply for the families of the dead soldiers, I feel that this is just the beginning...

WebShaman ~ Amen

WS - I don't blame the South Korean leaders... it just pisses me off to see the North Koreans take the aid and then turn around and spit on the country that helped them. Also, I don't think the sunshine policy should be abandoned, I just think we need to reassess what we are expecting from it. If we expect it to help the North Korean people and make their situation a little better, we will probably not be disappointed. However, if we expect it to somehow make the North Korean government more amenable to diplomacy, we will be sorely disappointed. It just doesn't work that way.

Here's a good example of what we're dealing with here: today, North Korea sent a letter to South Korea congratulating them on a successful World Cup. Either the right hand does not know what the left hand is doing in P'yongyang, or they are off their rockers. It's one or the other. Me, I think it's the latter. The North Korean leaders are duplicitous, manipulative, conniving thieves.

I suppose the thing that really gets to me is my helplessness in all this. North Korea and South Korea are two nations, but one people--yet they are separated by a paranoid, totalitarian regime. When I was in Mongolia, I saw a North Korean children's singing troupe perform. Young boys and girls stood on stage and sang songs about the Great Leader, Kim Il-Song. They spoke of him as if he were God. It amazed me on the one hand, and made me want to cry on the other. And all I could do was watch, and then come back to Korea and sit by while events over which I have absolutely no control unfold around me.

No, I'm not Korean, and I never will be. But there is a bond between me and this land, this people. I can never know the full extent of the suffering the Korean people have gone through, but it has been a part of my daily life for the past seven years. Most people learn to live with it, and I have as well, it's just at times like these it tends to get to me. Give me a few days and I'll be OK.

I found your closing comments interesting, especially the part about this being "just the beginning." My friend, this is nowhere near the beginning--the beginning happened over fifty years ago. This is just a continuation. The Korean War never officially ended, and North Korea's actions make it clear that they take this fact quite seriously.

Also, this is not intended to be a distraction by North Korea; they don't need to distract their people with a war. What it's about is fishing rights--the North Koreans want to catch more crabs, so their fishing boats encroach on South Korean waters. Then the warships come in and start blasting (this happens all the time, by the way). This is one reason why the sunshine policy will never achieve any political ends; we can give North Korea as much food as we like, and they'll still try to take what they don't have without even considering diplomacy. They don't consider the sunshine policy diplomacy, they consider it a handout.

I think I've ranted on long enough. Your most salient point, of course, can be summed up in "Don't let these events cloud your humanity." That is good advice, and I will follow it to the best of my ability.

Um.... I know this is emotionally charged... but it's probably a better topic for the Philosophy Forum...

...find it there...


Code - CGI - links - DHTML - Javascript - Perl - programming - Magic - http://www.twistedport.com
ICQ: 67751342

Ok Master Suho...I can sympathize with the South (and North) Korean people (because, as you know, I am Indian, and my people have and continue, to 'suffer'). I will clarify my point 'This is just the beginning'...I didn't mean the conflict...heh, I've got a military background, I'm well aware of the History of North/South Korea...no, I meant exactly this event...it is just the beginning, of something else. Who really knows what the North Korean Leadership is thinking (or planning)?

But one thing you should know...public gestures, especially on the world stage, always plays a part in such situations...as did the Nobel Peace Prize. And, I suspect, the 'gesture' from North Korea on the WC is exactly one of those...a 'political' nicety...nothing more.

The question is with this 'sunshine' policy...is it hurting South Korea? Is giving freely a negative thing? I don't think so...and I suspect that the Leadership of South Korea is also not dumb...and cannot afford to be, considering the past.

The real problem is, that you don't really have enough information to base your judgements on...and that is dangerous...because you let a little bit of 'information' (news) affect your normally good judgement. These are really just your emotions, and I suspect that they are being manipulated.

Fazit :

1) You don't really know what the North Korean Leadership is thinking, planning, or even if they are rational.

2) You have no 'inside' information to what the South Korean Leadership is really thinking, planning, or what is going on 'behind the scene'.

3) The news (and history) seems to be the only source of your information on this...which leads me to think that maybe your emotions are being manipulated...the question is, by whom?

4) You say the conflict is over fishing rights...well, maybe it is, and maybe it isn't. It does seem strange to me that this comes right after the WC...exactly when Korea would normally be 'enjoying' the fruits of the WC teams endeavors...and 'coincidently' there comes a 'Congratulations' from North Korea...hmmm...this is a classical example of 'Oh, we didn't know that was going to happen' type of stuff...so that they can conviently cover their ass on the world stage. On the other hand...it could well be a genuine mistake...or a power play within the North Korean government.

5) You admit your feelings of helplessness...well, that's normal. But are you truly helpless? No, you are not. You have at least the ability to influence yourself, and others near you. First of all, stop feeling helpless. That won't help. Consider, instead, what you can do, instead of what you cannot. You are largely placing yourself in a position of helplessness, by the overwhelming 'large-ness' of the situation...and you are diminishing yourself to ineffectiveness. Of course, some things you can't do...but you are not helpless.

To change the situation :

If you really want to do something, then these tips may help -

1) Get organized...find like-minded people near you, and join together. Not only is the added support a comfort, but what one cannot accomplish, many can.

2) Use the internet. Make a website on this issue, and get people involved. Or, if there are websites on this, then get invovled...that will relieve much of the feeling of helplessness...because you are doing something, no matter how small, or seemingly insignificant.

3) Collect information...once again, the internet is your friend...try to find other sources of information, and 'evaluate' the differences...and read between the lines. Sometimes (well, most of the time, at least my experience and training has proved this, time and again) that information that is collected over time, will show patterns, or holes...and, if properly evaluated, can tell you more than it should...that is the true power of intelligence gathering...not only what is being said (and how) is important...but rather, what is not being said (or addressed) is often the key...remember, 'news' sources are often 'fed' tidbits, or 'official' stories, that really don't reveal the truth...but are rarely for the long-run...they often serve just to 'cover' the short run...or to bring a reaction, of one sort or the other, or to divert attention. Try not to be fooled by staying alert, not over-reacting, and collecting information over time...

And...(this may sound odd, but is strangely true)...enjoy yourself, at least a bit. Yes, a tragedy has occurred...but South Korea also has things to celebrate...and that should not be forgotten.

I appreciate your comments on the matter, WS, but I think you give the North Korean leadership more credit than it deserves. Granted, I'm sure that the timing was not entirely coincidental, but you talk as if they have some grand scheme in mind. Well, actually they do have a grand scheme in mind, but I can tell you that they don't have any real way to accomplish this grand scheme, at least not in the forseeable future. I would bet you any amount of money that this is an isolated incident (inasmuch as the other incidents have been "isolated").

You also assume that I don't have "inside" information. Maybe I don't. But maybe I do. It's safer not to assume things, right? As for my emotions being manipulated by insufficient information, I do not think that is the case. It is my job to read between the lines, and it is also my job to know a lot about the governments, politics, military, and economy of the North and South.

I also think you took my original comments out of context. I was in a rather agitated state (still am, sort of), and when I'm agitated I tend to rant. This does not mean I feel that I am completely ineffective. I am, in fact, active in this situation. I'm hoping it is for the ultimate good of all concerned, but I'm wondering if that is truly possible. The helplessness I feel is the same sort of helplessness I feel when talking to my younger brother--it's like trying to persuade a brick wall to move. I didn't mean a complete helplessness.

Like I said, though, give me a few days and I'll be fine. Not that I'll forget this, but I should have a better perspective on matters. Thanks again for your concern. I think I'd better go get some sleep...

(A website is not a bad idea, by the way. I'm actually working on a website now, but the focus is different (more literature than politics, etc.). Maybe I'll broaden it to include these issues. We'll see how it goes--I'm having a hard enough time with the scope I've already chosen...)

Hmmm...why don't you suggest it to the Project Team? I'm sure they would be more than willing to help...

And yeah, you are right about assuming...it just makes an ass out of u and me...and I will refrain from doing so in the future...my apologies.

And never underestimate a cornered animal...America found that out with Iraq...one Saddam Hussein, to be specific. But I'm sure you know that...

you should be there by now Suho! you speak as if your on the verge!

do what makes you happiest.

OK, I'm there.

I'll be straight with you guys: it wasn't just the West Sea incidnet that was bugging me. Although that was the main thing, there were other things going on, but I didn't realize they were adding to the stress. I'm feeling a little better now, though. Thanks for being understanding and willing to help out.

As I mentioned yesterday, my comments were made in an agitated state, and I think I was a bit more rough (?--crap, I have the perfect Korean word for this...) than normal. No real need to apologize, WS, I was just being testy . Anyway, that's all cleared up now.

Hmm... the Project Team? Well, if I really wanted to do something serious with this, it would definitely require a lot more thought and planning. I'm still trying to figure out where I'm going with my original website idea, so if I can get that up and running maybe I'll look into what I can do. At the very least, I could put up an information site. Anyway, that may still be a way off yet, but if I do get around to doing something with it I'll run the idea by you guys and see if anyone wants to help out.

And you're right about cornered animals--that's what makes the North so dangerous. There's something else too: their practically religious devotion to their ideals. Louis L'Amour once wrote, "There's no stopping a man who thinks he's right." The North Koreans are convinced that they have the moral high ground. The spies and agents provocateur who infiltrate the South are on the same level as the assassins of Alamut (or not far from it). It's really, truly frightening to think about, which is why I try not to think about it too much.

Oh yeah...love Louis L'Amour...I've read everything he's written...too bad he is dead...

Hmmm...come to think of it...if you do make such a site, be careful...it could make you into a target...

quote:

---

Hmmm...come to think of it...if you do make such a site, be careful...it could make you into a target...

---

Yeah, I've thought of that. Obviously I would have to be "diplomatic." Like I said, we'll have to see how it goes. If it ever does get beyond the planning stage, I'll be sure to let you know.