Topic awaiting preservation: A bit of philosophy (Page 1 of 1)

Would I be correct in saying that if math is poetry, then programming is poetry in motion?

Maskkkk




- Face the Present

Is Programming considered Math in Motion?

If Yes, then:

Math = Poetry
Programming = Math in Motion
Programming = Poetry in Motion

If not, oh well. It was fun for a few minutes anyway.

GrythusDraconis

Poetry is defined as being:

1. The art or work of a poet.
2. a) Poems regarded as forming a division of literature.
b) The poetic works of a given author, group, nation, or kind.
3. A piece of literature written in meter; verse.
4. Prose that resembles a poem in some respect, as in form or sound.
5. The essence or characteristic quality of a poem.
6. A quality that suggests poetry, as in grace, beauty, or harmony: the poetry of the dancer's movements.

I dont see that either math or programming can fall into the definition of poetry. People are moved by poetry, they gather in groups over coffee for readings of it, would you sit and sip coffee while someone reads off math formulas or lines of a program?

Both Math and Programming are driven by purpose, a method of solving a problem, a task. Poetry can exist without any of those constraints but a neither math or programming are able to break outside of those limitations. Would you ever write a program that served no purpose but with elements instead arranged with meter and verse? Could it possibly be a program? My opinion is that programming is not art, it is not poetry it is a results driven task. To me it seems that programming could be more easily likened to commercial design.

People take writing code very serious. Just like any shmoe can run a bunch of words together, anyone
can write code. But true programmers admire good code. Just like those who are enthralled by
the use of certain words or how a group of words can make you feel some way or explain a situation, why can't
people admire what a bunch of if/then/else statements do?
If poetry is art, and if art is in the eye of the beholder,
then why can't code be poetry? Furthermore, if code is logic, then why can't Math be poetry as well.

If you do a search on perl poetry, you can actually find contests for stuff like this.

if ($in_love)
{
if (!&love) { &pain(1) }
else { &pain(0) }
}
else
{
{ &pain(0) }
}

sub pain
{
$love_in_vain = shift;
$pain++;
&pain(1) if $love_in_vain;
}

LOL

"Poetry in Motion" was a song of the early 1960's (maybe late 50's)... can't remember which... and I was there.... That should tell ya something. <lol>

Oh yeah I read some of that perl poetry in one of those O'riely perl books they gave me down at work, I forgot all about that.

Maskkkk




- Face the Present

Programming? Poetry?


....Gag a maggot.......

Well, No I wouldn't listen to someone read it to me... But I WOULD sit down with a pot of coffee and read it. It's admirable to see good code. I admit I don't understand most of it but then who can always understand poetry? Besides code has a stanzic form all it's own and works quite well in that format. I don't agree that poetry exists without purpose. Everything has a purpose... even if it's only to just be. I don't write poetry for no reason. I write poetry to express myself. Actually everything created by anyone has the basic purpose of being that person's expression. Go ahead and try to avoid that!

There is code that is purely for commercial purposes. Achieving some particular goal. It's when the author goes out of their way to make graceful, and exceptional code do the same things that it becomes art. Poetry is just a pretty way of saying something that could be said another way. I think the same applies to coding and Mathematics.

GrythusDraconis

Yeah for that matter just look at this message board, this message board is code too ya know?

Maskkkk




- Face the Present

[This message has been edited by Maskkkk (edited 08-17-2002).]

Yeah, there is that certain satisfaction from seeing a well-constructed piece of code. There's definitely an element to it, especially the syntaxing(all good code ends in an inclusio as far as I know ) but the problem with it is that programming is logic. Math, reason, not reason cushioned in reality, not reason fleshed out by experience and friction, just the bare essential skeleton of Reason. No plays on terms, no gloriously vauge variables, no delightful non-sequiturs, just......reason.

"Therefore" is a word the poet must not know.  
-   André Gide


(This is a hella weird discussion....)

Psychology is really Biology, Biology is really Chemistry, Chemistry is really Physics, and Physics is really FUN!! Oop, sorry, inside joke... Physics is really math.

I'm not sure that I've ever heard that poetry is math, but it would make sense in many cases. The rhythm and beats of a poem deal with math, i.e. Haikus come to mind first, then there are also many other types that follow numerical patterns, although I can't think of what they're called right now... Similar to how music is math: tones, scales, rhythms, meters, etc.

So if you look at really any part of life, you can trace it back to math, and life is in motion (until you die that is), so everything could be considered math in motion...

Of course, it's getting kinda late, so I may be completely wrong... Wouldn't be the first time

Let's break it down

Math is a stuctured thing (structured thing being defined as something with structure, patterns, syntax etc...) = M is S
Poetry and Music are structured things = PM is S

So our argument then runs...
M is S
PM is S
Therefore PM is M?

Fallacy of the undistributed middle: by the same line of reasoning, I can prove that Women are not people

Genuine poetry can communicate before it is understood.  
-   T.S. Eliot



[This message has been edited by cpkdog (edited 08-17-2002).]

However, in Maskkk's orig post, he says

quote:

---

if math is poetry

---

Therefore, M = S; P = S; then IF M = P, it would be true. But if M != P, then it is false.

I kinda agree that poetry is math, but that math isn't poetry...
Like saying all apples are fruit, but not all fruit are apples... is apples? was apples? Yea, something like that...

Or analogy wise, does math relate to poetry the same way programming relates to math in motion (assuming poetry=math)?
I disagree here because:
poetry = math;
math != poetry;
math in motion = programming;
programming = math in motion;


OK, this is making my head hurt, I'm too tired try and get this to make any real sense... Gonna go bowling tomorrow, and play paintball Monday, and get ready for this semester to start (got lucky and only spent just over $200 on books, which beats the $600 I had to spend last fall )... Enough rambling for one evening... I hope this post makes sense to someone because I don't have a clue anymore...



[This message has been edited by Lord_Fukutoku (edited 08-19-2002).]