Topic awaiting preservation: Federal Corruption (Page 1 of 1)

This might be an old story to some of you but still...
http://www.sonic.net/sentinel/gvcon7.html

My original message was modified to prevent DL-44 from screaming at me


[This message has been edited by Xpirex (edited 07-08-2003).]

Freedom, like anything else, is a relative term.

Look at the history of human civilization.
Look at now.

Yup - I feel pretty free =)

Not that I don't understand what you are trying to say....I just think you have a rather skewed view, or perhaps you started out with unrealistic expectations (in other words, you seem...disillusioned, surprised...when these things - and much much much worse - have been the staple of human government since it began).

Dang, DL, you read all of that? Mebbe I'm just too tired right now...

Your absolutely right again DL-44, I am very disillusioned. I went to the US with all high hopes and optimism and got a rude awakening. I am trying so hard to find a society to believe in but am loosing faith in that possibilty. I need to believe in humanity,

...I am sad.

How about Sweden? I keep hearing good things about Sweden.

Cell 1250 :: alanmacdougall.com :: Illustrator tips

Suho - no, but I skimmed most of it...

X - I guess I just don't understand your fixation with American corruption, when you have to admit that there are many far worse governments in the world.

I also don't understand what about humanity you want to believe...

There is good, there is bad. You can't have one without the other.

See, here's the thing: people go on and on about American corruption because it is so visible. Just because it is visible, though, doesn't mean that there's more of it than in countries where it's not so visible.

I think this is a good thing, actually. America is still a country where you can say whatever you want about the government and not worry about getting shot. So, yeah, all the dirty laundry is aired where everyone can see it, but isn't that better than everything being kept under wraps?

[Edit: OK, I must admit that I haven't been back to the States since 9-11, so I don't really know what affect some of the new legislation (ie, the Patriot Act) has on civil freedoms, but I'm hoping that things haven't slipped too far yet.]

[This message has been edited by Suho1004 (edited 07-09-2003).]

Oh yes, absolutely, it's a great thing that we can talk about it, and I have no problem - in fact I generally encourage - such things being out in the open so we can talk about them.

I just have a hard time grapsing this kind of..."aha, see! I told you they were evil!" kind of approach. Ok, I exagerate a little, but...

I mean...I know there are actually people who don't think government is corrupt, but I think the majority of people have a relatively decent grasp on the concept. Things like this article are great things to talk about, even get upset about if you like, but it's not all of a sudden exposing the seedy underbelly of america or anything....

=)

I tend to be of the opinion that corrupt, power hungry people tend to gravitate towards the top of the pile (well the competent ones - the stupid ones just hand around making our every day lives less bearable) and once they have power they tend to get more corrupt and power hungry (and, of course, there are the people who get ocrrupted by power).

My favourite Bad Boy of the moment has to be Silvio Berlusconi - he is scum of the highest order and is now the head of the EU (for the next 6 months). Passing laws expempting himself from criminal charges is a master stroke.

I'm sure I read something sci fi which had the premise that the people who wanted power were exactly the people who shouldn't be allowed it and actually randomly selecting someone to be president for a year would be a better than trying to go for the best of a bad lot. However, that requires the people in power giving it all up and I doubt they'll do that withoutbeing forced to - something I'm not adverse to........

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

if you're looking to government for belief in humanity, USA is about as good as it gets
(at least on this planet) and imho you're looking in the wrong direction
if you're just looking for belief in humanity this is about as good as it gets
quote
"...organizations have different forms of power. The military have the power of the gun, media magnates have the power of the written word and of images beamed around the world in seconds. Religious institutions have the power of belief, parliaments have the power of politics, corporations and financial institutions have the power of money. "

if you're just wanting to discuss corruption and politics, i'm out


[This message has been edited by outcydr (edited 07-09-2003).]

DL: Ah... yes, I think we have a case of poor placing here. My post did happen to follow yours, but it was more of a general comment on the whole issue, and somewhat of a response to Xpirex, rather than a response to your post. I was addressing the (often feigned) shock and horror people sometimes express on finding out about these things...

[Edit: I also like the random presidential selection idea, but I can imagine a few difficulties with that. First of all, what if the person selected doesn't want to be president. I don't know about everyone else, but not too many people I know would actually want to be president.

This kind of reminds me of the premise of Frazer's "The Golden Bough" (yep, they've got the whole friggin' thing online--I love the Internet). In the first chapter, "The King of the Wood," he talks about ancient kings who claimed their throne by assassinating the previous kings. I remember when I first read the book I thought, "Only a madman would want to be king." That's kind of like the way it is with the presidency--only power-hungry maniacs really want that position of responsibility, and that's where we get the class of people known as politicians. So I don't think the whole random selection thing would work in reality, because most likely you'd get people fleeing the country when they found out they were selected. Think of how that would screw up your life...

Or maybe I'm just looking at this in the wrong way.]

[This message has been edited by Suho1004 (edited 07-09-2003).]

Yeah, I'm all for the random selection...although I think there would ahve to be some sort of testing during the selection process....

I also read a book which touched on a similar premise, where the people selected were held accountable for the economic performance of the nation. So, nobody *wanted* to do it, but when it was your turn you had a very vested interest in doing it well Interesting idea there....

And I'm all for forcibly removing people from power too



[This message has been edited by DL-44 (edited 07-09-2003).]

DL:

quote:

---

Yeah, I'm all for the random selection...although I think there would ahve to be some sort of testing during the selection process....

---

What do you think could happen? A lying, greedy, stupid psycopath might get in? Democracy has a tendency to return these kind of people in higher proportions than exist in the population

OK how about we randomly select 5 and then vote for them?

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

Well no, I was just thinking lie, basic geography / history / math etc...

You know, like jr high kind of stuff.... =)

Well, that would rule out at least half of the U.S. population right off the bat...

Probably for the best really........

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

Never said it wouldn't be.