Preserved Topic: Are we gonna let them do this? (Page 1 of 1)

The poster has demanded we remove all his contributions, less he takes legal action.
We have done so.
Now Tyberius Prime expects him to start complaining that we removed his 'free speech' since this message will replace all of his posts, past and future.
Don't follow his example - seek real life help first.

http://www.netscape.com

I must say thats a very pretty post.

there an echo in here?


Edit> I am not actually editing what I said, just want you all to know that my post made sense before someone deleted theirs.

[This message has been edited by Jeni (edited 08-27-2001).]

I don't see how we can stop it.

Microsoft is in a good position. People will use there products no matter what they do. Most people here know there machines inside and out, know every peice of software that is out there to do whatever they want to do. The average user doesn't have this knowledge IMO. People will update to ie6 because it is the latest version of ie. Most of these people just don't know what Netscape or Opera is. The average user doesn't use Quicktime or Java. And they couldn't tell you what ASP.Net and Active X is. To them, who cares? I suppose Flash won't be supported though.

In all honesty, why the bad press on Microsoft? Seriously. I mean they are a business soley out to make money. Does that make them evil? Of course not. If they can increase there revenues and further dominate the market with this newest release then good for them. Personally, I prefer Navigator so I probably wont even download it. You have that option too. Most of Microsofts work is top notch quality, look at Windows. I can't think of a serious program, as big as it, doing as many things, built for so many types of computers, that works as well.

My only real concern is, will this new browser further widen the gaps between platforms?

--------------
cheers.jay

The poster has demanded we remove all his contributions, less he takes legal action.
We have done so.
Now Tyberius Prime expects him to start complaining that we removed his 'free speech' since this message will replace all of his posts, past and future.
Don't follow his example - seek real life help first.

While the plug-in issue might be bad, I'm not into Java, so that doesn't affect me. And while they are not including it in the product software, it will be available for download from the MS site.

I certainly wouldn't go back to using Shitscape just because of that. I think MS puts out a FAR superior browser. I'm not likely to change anytime soon.

The poster has demanded we remove all his contributions, less he takes legal action.
We have done so.
Now Tyberius Prime expects him to start complaining that we removed his 'free speech' since this message will replace all of his posts, past and future.
Don't follow his example - seek real life help first.

*coughcoughahem*

SCREW BILL!

Okay, that being said, you know why the mac is really stable, and works like a charm? Monopoly. There are not many companies that make hardware for the mac, so it doesn't need to support 25 gazillion different types of CD-rom / DVD player, screens, motherboards and whathaveyous. So it works better & is more stable. Same for the browser. No Java, only activeX & all that shit would make the browser faster & more stable, since the developers don't have to support every little new thing that comes out, and everything that DOES work is Micro$oft's anyway.

Jestah: "I suppose Flash won't be supported though."

wouldn't that be suicide? seeing how many sites use flash nowadays... even 'regular' users would seek a browser which would run flash. And I do hope that they don't "widen the gaps between platforms". It's shitty enough now as it is.

And as long as I have a mind of my own I can still download Mozilla or anything if the M$ shit really gets out of hand.

Hey, and wouldn't it be fun if everyone moved to Mozilla since they don't like IE6?


Taking no sides in the neverending battle between Good and Evil. However, I do need more popcorn.

I have fought with the issue of MS for sometime now. MS has gotten a bad rap because of all the ways they integrate their product with other products (i.e. you have to have Windows to run this game or that program). I don't think that that is such a bad thing. It is just that for SO LONG there was nothing really out there for the user (common or otherwise) to run such things. With the Linux hipe there are more games being developed for it. That's great! I love Linux!!

The one thing that bugs me is that people blam Windows for crashes. This is not entirely true. Some of it has to be blamed on the software. This is not to say that Windows runs great or even the best, but faulty software can cause it to crash also.

It does suck that IE6 doesn't support plug-ins, but it is still in BETA stages so when it does come out fully, it may very well support all of the fun stuff. As for Java though, I am not sure. MS and Sun have had a few words about this I am sure, hince MS's J++.

-Just rambling I am sure, the musings of a tired man.

C:\

The poster has demanded we remove all his contributions, less he takes legal action.
We have done so.
Now Tyberius Prime expects him to start complaining that we removed his 'free speech' since this message will replace all of his posts, past and future.
Don't follow his example - seek real life help first.

This must partly be due to the lack of a credible opposition. Hopefully we will soon see other Mozilla-based browsers which won't make the kind of mistakes NS has.

This interests me:

quote:

---

Oh, about databases: Oracle, the leading database system, got huuuge troubles with Visual Basic and Microsoft programming technologies. Imagine basing all your server-side structures on ASP and Access or MS SQL.

---

Two reactions:

1. That appears to be Oracles fault.

2. What about PHP and mySQL and other alternatives?

MS can't do things like cut out access to sites not using ASP as people would stop using the browser fast. MS also can't not support plugins as this will also cause people to go elsewhere - it may not ship with them but that is a different matter.

Actually now I reread the first post I'm wondering who Bill G***** is? He's clearly not Bill G**** - is he the real mastermind behind Microsoft which is why you couldn't say his name outloud?

Just my thoughts,

Emps

In my opinion, Windows 95 was a stepping stone. That stepping stone is leading to fantastic things. Look at Windows 2000 and Windows Me. Both are great. I run 2000 at home, and Me here in school. Aside for some problems I was having installing 2000, which Pugzly helped me through (thanks man), I haven't had a single problem. No crashes. Don't get me wrong, I love OS X, but I don't feel it's in the least superior to any Microsoft product. Also I doubt theres a product in your home that isn't a copy. Do you really believe both Sony and Toshiba invented the TV? No they just market it, just as Microsoft markets there operating systems. I really don't think you could argue about top notch quality. I mean everyone in this forum has paid more money for a Microsoft product that they could have spent buying a similiar program, made by a competitor. Why? Microsoft products are actually pretty good. Most people aren't programers and don't have the time to learn UNIX. Microsoft Windows Me is perfect because they don't need to learn commands. They simply click on an icon and it is launched.

I think your fear that Microsoft is going to change the way we type (or perhaps the way we talk) is a little paranoid. Don't get me wrong. I do agree with you that people do make mistakes while typing and I'm sure the Microsoft Word dictionary is a commonly used one. However, dictionaries have been around for centuries now. The real question is has dictionaries changed our speech, or has changes in society changed our speech? Changes in speech have occured long before Microsoft introducted it's Word Dictionary.

Mahjqa, I really couldn't agree more with you. The comparison to the mac was a very good one. Personally though, I couldn't care what happens to Flash. I don't particularly like it. Some of it is done very nice, but most is crappy and just delays entry into a shit website.

--------------
cheers.jay

The poster has demanded we remove all his contributions, less he takes legal action.
We have done so.
Now Tyberius Prime expects him to start complaining that we removed his 'free speech' since this message will replace all of his posts, past and future.
Don't follow his example - seek real life help first.

The poster has demanded we remove all his contributions, less he takes legal action.
We have done so.
Now Tyberius Prime expects him to start complaining that we removed his 'free speech' since this message will replace all of his posts, past and future.
Don't follow his example - seek real life help first.

2000 is not an end user machine, it is a developer server machine.

ME is not stable, and may be one of their worst works yet.

Microsoft is not a top noche product. It is a product and it does get the job done, but it is not even near a top noche product. It is however the number one product.

But quality and quantity are completely different things. Microsoft knows how to market their products, and has marketted their products. They were also able to take a firm hold of the market early in the game, which gave them their 15 year advantage.

Systems such as *nix or BSD are by far more stable, and run at much faster speeds. And they do not require vendor specific hardware such as the mac does. And Mac is riding on top of Unix right now, with their OS X (10.1).

IE is a decent browser, Opera is a much better browser. That is from experience.
Windows 2000 is a decent opperating system, Linux is much better. Again from experience.

I am currently running windows 2k and I like it, however I would never run 98 or ME by choice. And that is what all the end users are forced to run.


Another arguement, go to your local computer store. You will notice that almost all the computers they sell, if not all of the computers they sell are bundled with windows pre-installed.

Having windows preinstalled, promts you to use the internet explorer browser, and as you set up a connection to the internet you are prompted again to use the MSN network as your connection to the internet.

All along the way you are buying microsoft products. Using a single MS product, is like being forced to walk the entire Store in order to pick up a few building bricks, that are laying right by the door.

The problem is choice, or more, people being unaware of the choices available to them. I would imagine than on average people who purchase a new computer spend close to $300 on microsoft products, without even being aware of the purchase.

Howeve when you get right down to it, you could spend $40 on the red hat distro. And then have all the software available to you open source. With the end result being that you saved $260 got more software, and much better stability.

Don't call the MS product top noche. They are not. They are well marketted and domineering.

You can do much better than MS you just need to be aware.

Linux is 10 years old, microsoft is now 26 years old.

Wouldn't you think that in 26 years and 7 billion in income that they would have a superiour product?

Microsoft can do whatever it wants to do with its own products and it is up to us the consumers to use them or use something else. I'm afraid it is just that simple for me. If Microsoft goes too far, then we need to switch to the alternatives. And if there are no good alternatives, then we need to create some.

I can talk a lot about this, but I won't since I don't have that much free time. Just a few things...

IE is the best web browser at the moment (and probably will be in the future, too). Mozilla is still *extremely slow* and still under heavy development (for example, implementation of tables changes from one release to another, which is a real pain for web developers). So, if you're using Windows, there's no real reason why you shouldn't use IE.

Now, about plug-ins... That's not entirely true. IE6 won't support old Netscape style plug-ins. It will support plug-ins developed in ActiveX, since they work in IE a little bit better than NN style plug-ins.

As far as Java is concerned it won't come by default, but you'll probably be able to download JVM from their web site.

And last, but not least ASP will always be the crap (because of VB language), but MS SQL Server evolved in a decent database software and we should have that in mind. Even active directory in new Microsoft OSes (not XP, though) will use MS SQL Server to store data...

That would be all.

The poster has demanded we remove all his contributions, less he takes legal action.
We have done so.
Now Tyberius Prime expects him to start complaining that we removed his 'free speech' since this message will replace all of his posts, past and future.
Don't follow his example - seek real life help first.

Have you actually read Farenheit 451?

The poster has demanded we remove all his contributions, less he takes legal action.
We have done so.
Now Tyberius Prime expects him to start complaining that we removed his 'free speech' since this message will replace all of his posts, past and future.
Don't follow his example - seek real life help first.

The poster has demanded we remove all his contributions, less he takes legal action.
We have done so.
Now Tyberius Prime expects him to start complaining that we removed his 'free speech' since this message will replace all of his posts, past and future.
Don't follow his example - seek real life help first.

And let's not forget that the Mac owes its icon based gui to Xerox, who had it before Apple. Everyone takes something, and then builds on it from there.

I think that MS does a hell of a job creating applications that run on a gillion different hardware/software combinations. Sure, there are things I'd change. But to me, MS comes the closest to what I need.

quote:

---

Can we, for our future, let one company grow enough to lead such an important market?

---

What kind of question is that? Everytime you buy a Microsoft product, you vote to keep them number one with your money. You cannot blame a company for doing what companies are *supposed* to do, namely to make a profit.

If you don't like what Microsoft does then you must choose to use another product. Microsoft does not have to provide software for anyone. They can do whatever the heck they want as long as they stay within the law. Any benefit you have gotten from using their products was made possible by that company busting its butt to bring them to market. Far more good has been achieved from Microsoft's products, sloppy as they may be at times, than bad.

The poster has demanded we remove all his contributions, less he takes legal action.
We have done so.
Now Tyberius Prime expects him to start complaining that we removed his 'free speech' since this message will replace all of his posts, past and future.
Don't follow his example - seek real life help first.

I think that whatever they buiild into the new browser, and also the new OS, will not have a huge impact on many of us for some time. I for one have no plans to upgrade to Windows XP, and having upgraded once to IE6, I later removed it. MSIE5.5 for the PC is a very nice browser, fast and proper, it allows you to do some decent things. Mozilla is slow as a turtle with a bad blister, and MSIE6 seemed like much the same. I expect they will eventually start making the Java VM part of their download if enough people really need it, but client-side applets is not Java's best strength, IMHO. I also expect Quicktime to produce a plug-in that works with it before too many people start using the browser, they're not stupid people over there at Apple. For the most part, I expect very little to change in my world, simply another version of browser to fit into my little cross-browser checker.

Your pal, -doc-

The poster has demanded we remove all his contributions, less he takes legal action.
We have done so.
Now Tyberius Prime expects him to start complaining that we removed his 'free speech' since this message will replace all of his posts, past and future.
Don't follow his example - seek real life help first.

The poster has demanded we remove all his contributions, less he takes legal action.
We have done so.
Now Tyberius Prime expects him to start complaining that we removed his 'free speech' since this message will replace all of his posts, past and future.
Don't follow his example - seek real life help first.

I wouldn't worry to much about Microsoft obtaining data from your machine. In all seriousness, if they are able to obtain data, which of course is possible, it's through a Micorsoft product on your system and since you've already bought Microsoft what could they possibly persuade you to do? Besides, for a multi-billion dollar company, what do they have to gain by doing this? A few extra million?

As requested, this thread is dead.

--------------
cheers.jay

[This message has been edited by Jestah (edited 08-27-2001).]