Preserved Topic: Governor Arnold! (Page 1 of 2)

Man this is too much... gotta admit I'm getting a pretty good chuckle outta this... and to top everything off.... Jay Leno is just about to introduce Arnold as the Governor elect...

Yup. I'm waiting for Ahnold's victory speech. Break out the popcorn, folks

From a body builder to a Governor.....trully thats America for you


~Sig coming soon~

Now, let's see how he manages. I mean, you american folks had an actor for president, fo'krissakes.

I kinda think it'll work out.

This is just great He's got a big job ahead of him, but tonight it is time for celebration

. . : slicePuzzle

yep, he's come a long way since his role as Handsome Stranger in Cactus Jack

Word is that they have to wait for 24 hours before they can start the recall proceedings against Arnold.


It's only after we've lost everything...
That we're free to do anything...

A sign of the apocalypse? Maybe. A sign that democracy in America has fallen to it's lowest point yet? Perhaps.

"We (I) don't like you, Governor Davis! I've got $1.2 million and I'm not afraid to make California the laughing stock of electoral proceedings, surpassing even Florida!"

Okay, it's time for do-overs. When do we get to recall Bush? It didn't work in middle school, it shouldn't work in the real world.

I need to move to Canada.

-S

Ya, someone who isn't a professional politician running for office and winning. How could we ever let this happen. Surely the PEOPLE shouldn't run the government. Stupid system.


It's pronounced "Spikes!"

[This message has been edited by SPyX (edited 10-08-2003).]

okay, I know you're in Texas, so I'll try to use small words.

I don't care if he is or he is not a career politician. That never was, and continues to not be an issue I have with this recall. My problem is that because some right-winger (who, consequently, didn't even run for the recall) had a whole mess of extra money, he decided to pose a recall to, essentially, "do over" the prior election because of what was coined as a lie from Gray Davis. He claimed that Davis lied about the state of the economy, as though it weren't just as back across the entire country.

So, what do they do? They elect someone that claims he will not raise taxes. When your government is in a $60b shortfall, you raise the money from the constituency, or you sell the country to the free market. Who wants shares in CaliCo(tm)? If in two years the Governator has not raised taxes (in some subtle, underhanded way, no doubt--one that jabs the poor, like the right wing is so interested in doing) I would be surprised...and if the standard holds, he should be recalled at that point, yes?

When you vote someone into office, you vote him/her in for term. I'm not sure if anyone really figured that out. At all. "No, this just isn't my style, I'd like to re-do this, please."

It's a mockery of the entire system, and it offends me to the core of my overly-democratic core. I'm sorry you believe I was attacking him because he's not a career politician, but please read next time. It's helpful to the rest of us.

As for how the Governator will do, I'm sure he'll be just fine. California is far too moderate for him to be able to push through any reforms of natures unbecoming social liberalism. Yes, he's a fiscal conservative--so are most Americans--but he's socially just left of moderate. He'll do well. I just hope he gets recalled in 6 months. Or sooner.

-S

(addendum)

In your blatant mockery, you implied that Arnold Schwartzenegger was a member of "the people" of America. He represents the majority. Right. $30m for his last film, right? And he's married to a Kennedy? Yeah. And he's a man who made his mark on society originally by being a body-builder from Austria? Oh yeah. Just like the rest of us. (cough)

[This message has been edited by twItch^ (edited 10-08-2003).]

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okay, I know you're in Texas, so I'll try to use small words

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Would you like to rephrase that, twIt^?

Or suffer a big amount of WRATH? Huh? Do YA?

Well, here's to Arnie. All the best to him, if he screws up California any more, I will reprogram him with a very large axe.

well yeah, i am austrian too, but i still wouldn't like a moviestar as a president or governor.

Wes said..

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Would you like to rephrase that, twIt^?

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hmmm..nope. still funny the morning after.

We have also been discussing this here:
http://www.ozoneasylum.com/Forum17/HTML/000974.html

twitch^: Nicely put

___________________
Emps

The Emperor dot org

Emps, I stay out of that part of the forum as a strict rule. I have just been reminded why.

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hmmm..nope. still funny the morning after.

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oh yes...it's 5 AM here, and my sister is asleep in the room next ot me...I almost burst a blood vessel trying to keep from laughing.

Only now i realy understand the phrase:
"I will be back"

Leave the rest to your imagination...
T4 for president.

__________________________________________
"Art has to be forgotten. Beauty must be realized."
Piet Mondriaan

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it offends me to the core of my overly-democratic core

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How can that be? This IS the democratic process, twItch^. It's in the state constitution and any way you slice the numbers of yesterday's election, the PEOPLE wanted this outcome. More than enough sigs were collected to start the process and an overwhelming number voted for the recall (more than voted for Gray in the last election!) and a clear majority (not just a plurality) voted for a replacement.

Trying to claim this was some right-wing conspiracy is hopeless. Even if you accept that Issa's money got it rolling, you can't argue with the popular vote that occurred yeseterday. Or can you?

. . : slicePuzzle

I'm taking the wait and see approach on Ahnold. I want to see what he does in office before I pass judgement.



:::11oh1:::

That's very prudent. My euphoria is mainly that we have rebuked Davis and have *chance* at something better. It will be very interesting to see where we go from here to be sure.

Part of being in a democracy is making informed decisions with which you can live. Sometimes the public makes a mistake, which is why we have terms, and limitations on the amount of terms a man can serve. It is not a dictatorship, no rulers-for-life.

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Trying to claim this was some right-wing conspiracy is hopeless. Even if you accept that Issa's money got it rolling, you can't argue with the popular vote that occurred yeseterday. Or can you?

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And please, bugz, for the love of all you ever care to think about, please do not misquote me. The word "conspiracy" is first used in this thread in your post. At no point did I even allude to such a thing. No dictionary I've ever heard of would refer to "because some right-winger (who, consequently, didn't even run for the recall) had a whole mess of extra money, he decided to pose a recall to, essentially, "do over" the prior election because of what was coined as a lie from Gray Davis," as a conspiracy. Nothing illegal happened. Nothing subversive happened. It was out in the open, Issa said "if this was California Inc., then Chairman and CEO Gray Davis would be in jail," (link) and he had every intention of ensuring a Republican took office--even going so far as to say, "if two major Republicans remain on the ballot, I'd advise you to vote 'no' on the recall," (link) showing his completely partisan thoughts.

This was completely out in the open. It was partisaned, and completely against the merit of democracy. If we're allowed to simply take back what we make as decisions, how much respect does that show for our great country? Yes, we're prone to make mistakes.

But isn't part being an adult being responsible for your own actions? The spirit of the recall is to remove corrupt or illegal leaders. Only 55% of the people in California thought that Davis needed recalling (link). Lets just hope the Governator doesn't pull a Bushism, and forget that he only has a small majority of the people behind him, and try not to ostracize that other 45%.

I'm not saying he'll do a bad job. He'll probably do a fine job. That doesn't change that it offends me.

-S

So if what I'm reading is accurate, twItch^... You think that a poor decision on the part of the people deserves the punishment of living with that poor judgement? Isn't the punishment of knowing the people hadmade a bad choice in the first place, usually because things get totally F'ed up, enough punishment?

or from the other direction, When you make a mistake do you try and learn from it so you don't make that mistake again? Also, don't you try and fix whatever it was you screwed up? That's what I call responsibility. Trying to repair the damage you've done already. What it looks like you're saying is... 'Yeah, the people of California made a mistake, and even though they want to fix the problem and make things better, and they have legal recourse to do that, they should be punished and not allowed to fix the problem for two more years, even though they are ready to fix it now. They should be forced to let things get worse, possibly to an unrecoverable state, because they didn't have the foresight to not elect that weenie in the first place.'

That sounds positively ridiculous to me. We have policies in place for removing the God Damn President for christ's sake. Why the hell shouldn't such policies apply to lesser politicians? To me, this is the epitome of Democracy. The only way that the people can really truly make a difference in the government. You don't actually think we elect the president do you? How else are the people supposed to take responsibility for their actions if they aren't allowed to DO something?

You're right you never used the word "conspiracy". If I'm reading you correctly, you are laying the blame only at Issa's feet. Calling the actiions of one guy a conspiracy isn't accurate. But I should point out that Davis and the Democrat bosses in this state have been alleging that this *was* an illegitimate move by the Republicans to go against the voice of the people. I am sorry for conflating your position with theirs.

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This was completely out in the open. It was partisaned, and completely against the merit of democracy.

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I completely agree on your first two points there. I can't agree on the third that this was against democracy. It seems to me this was a victory for democracy in that the process affords a great deal of power to the people of this state to make corrections as they see fit.

I must be honest, however, that I was initially against the recall because, like you, I felt we should be made to suffer through another term with this guy. I was so upset that we re-elected him that I wanted people to hurt for it. But once it became apparent that this recall had legs (yes thanks to Issa's money) I was enticed to support it. I shifted my anger from the people to one of the chief causes of our predicament.

. . : slicePuzzle

....Philosophy and other Silliness, anyone?


Code - CGI - links - DHTML - Javascript - Perl - programming - Magic - http://www.twistedport.com
ICQ: 67751342

My one and final point: If I had $1.6 million to spend, I'd have Bush recalled. And I'd win it, too. Does that mean I *should*? Simple: no.

Well, anything that gets Bush out of office would be a good thing.

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Part of being in a democracy is making informed decisions with which you can live.

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It's too bad America isn't and never was a "democracy". We live in a republic. A world of difference.


<edit> Did everyone hear that there is a bill proposed that would remove the rule that someone has to be a natural American citizen to become president? President Shwartzenegger... that's a scarry thought. Look how well we did with the last actor. heh </edit>

[This message has been edited by MindBender (edited 10-09-2003).]

I don't think he deserves to be a politician, but hey, I don't live in Cali. I won't be affected.

My Detention Room

Hey Yannah, Hitler's killing Jews/assorted other people in Germany, but hey, I don't live there. I won't be affected.

[This message has been edited by counterfeitbacon (edited 10-09-2003).]

Who ever thought that the movie Demolition Man could be so prophetic?

:::11oh1:::

"I am the Governanator"




"You know you have been doing 3d too long when you walk into a church and think, "God, the polycount of this place must be huge!"

twitch^ you said:

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I'm not saying he'll do a bad job. He'll probably do a fine job.

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Isn't that what's important anyway?

Well, I would give Arnold a chance... Then again, I am the one who voted for Jesse Ventura. I am not sure how well Arnold would do, considering that the state is in major debt, losing businesses and has an immigration problem (Or so i heard). I hope he does well. From what I understand, Cali had one of the highest voter turn outs in recent history. But what can I say, the recall when on and the people have spoken. It is about time that people are able to stand up and say to these politicians to either 'do your job or get kicked out, because if you are not going to do what is right, you are gone.' We must not forget that no only do we have the right to put them in there, but we also have the right to kick them out. They just need to be reminded of that from time to time.

The people have spoken.

[This message has been edited by Wolfen (edited 10-09-2003).]

Well said, Wolfen. Minnesota also had the highest voter turnout in its history when Ventura was elected. I think it has a lot to do with the people being flat out tired with how "normal" politicians run things. It will be interesting to see if Arnold is able to do what Ventura was not... govern effectively without creating so much internal antagonism that it becomes too difficult to accomplish anything.

As for the recall? I am all for it. It is about time politicians are held accountable for the jobs they are elected to do. Yes, we vote our leaders into office, and we should be making informed decisions when we cast our votes. But, if our "informed decisions" are based on lies and false promises that aren't revealed until after inauguration, why should we be made to suffer the ineptitude of the elected official?

I do have one thought on this however... Given the high voter turnout on this occasion, it leads me to wonder where everyone was in the initial elections. If you didn't vote in the first one, you really shouldn't bitch because you didn't participate. <You is spoken in the general second person here, I'm not pointing fingers at anyone here...> If recalls are going to occur, should they be limited only to those that participated in the first election? It's just a thought... Perhaps this whole thing served as a wake-up call to the people of California that it is their government, but it is only theirs if they participate. I only hope that the wake up is still remembered nationwide the next election...

Moon: Minnesota has had some of the highest voter turn outs the last two elections. The last election Minnesota had about a 70% voter turn out and that was for govoner. Jesse really stirred the pot when he encouraged others to go out and vote. Not necessairly for him, just voting in general. It has been absolutely nuts these last two elections. Not only that, minnesota was primarily a democrat state turned independant and now republican. I think that peoples eyes are really being opened by what is happening. I think they are also realizing that they have a voice in govenment. That voice is our vote, and as long as we continue to have our right to vote, we will still have a voice in this country. It is about time that we hold screwy politicians accountable, no matter if they are conservative, moderate or liberal. Elections are our safeguards and are a part of democracy.

And some of his first moves in power - making sure the pwoer companies don't pay the Californian people the potential $9 billion they stole from them:
www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0310/S00087.htm

___________________
Emps

The Emperor dot org

As I am now a boarder at school I can't keep track of the news... This was a complete surprise to me this week when a friend announced that he was elected with a good part of the votes. We've heard many things about him now... How he would reduce unemployement by 'giving jobs to unemployed people' and such. It is not that I am not confident in Mr Schwarzenegger's ability to solve the problems in California, but I doubt he'll do better than the other politics. However, you won't get any 'an actor as a governor, this is truly America' from me, as an extreme racist got 18% in the last elections in France; this is a lot worse..
Anyway, we shall wait before judging anything about Mr Terminator.

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Schwarzenegger will also dismantle the California Consumer Power and Conservation Financing Authority, the public power agency created by the state Senate in August 2001 that financed small publicly owned power plants in California to eliminate the possibility of future energy shortages.

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and

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For three years, California has been engaged in a costly legal battle against dozens of energy companies it said ripped off the state by purposely withholding much-needed electricity from consumers, creating an artificial shortage while boosting the companies? profits.

Federal regulators ordered electricity refunds for California totalling about $3.3 billion, but Davis said the state deserves at least $9 billion and ?not a penny less.?

Richard Katz, an energy advisor to Davis, told the Sacramento Bee last month that he thinks the state will have to sue to recover significantly more money; the state already has refund cases pending before the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals.

"The governor has said he'll go to every court, every venue," Katz said. Litigation "is the only process we have for getting justice for ratepayers."

But Schwarzeneggeer aides said the lawsuits are deterring energy companies from building power plants in California, which could lead to another energy crisis in 2006, and the legal wrangling alone is costing the state millions of dollars.

?It?s time to settle and move on,? a top aide to Schwarzenegger said. ?We don?t want to inherit litigation.?

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Now someone knows how to ship tons off candles to california from europe (or asia for that matter)?
Or cheap powergenerators?

__________________________________________
"Art has to be forgotten. Beauty must be realized."
Piet Mondriaan

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The last election Minnesota had about a 70% voter turn out...

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Minnesota also had the highest voter turnout in its history when Ventura was elected. I think it has a lot to do with the people being flat out tired with how "normal" politicians run things.

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It was the so-called "young vote" in Minnesota that accounted for the high voter turn out.
It is a known fact that strategists for the major political parties make virtually no effort, other than obligatory lip-service, to court the 18-24 year old crowd because they simply do not turn out in large enough numbers to make a difference.
It was 'this group' 18-24, that Ventura managed to get to the polls. That demographic is of course the bulk =) of the wrestling audience. The Terminator also culled a lot of the same age group.

There's little that worries the political biggies more than young people voting. Cuz if you did ~looks around~ they'd actually have to listen to you.