Preserved Topic: Yes Folks, Another Interface!

Haha! I'm happy and proud to announce that my webpage is up and running, and I'd like ya'll to take a look at the interface and tell me what you think. Nothing special, no java and moving menus... just a plain old interface that I think looks good. <img border=0 align=absmiddle src="http://www.ozones.com/forum/smile.gif"> <img border=0 align=absmiddle src="http://www.ozones.com/forum/smile.gif"> <img border=0 align=absmiddle src="http://www.ozones.com/forum/smile.gif">

http://th-inknet.com/njuice

--Stevo--

Hmm..background image repeated for me at 1024 x 768, and the "best viewed..." type ran over it, so it blended into the blue to be nearly illegible.

The pastel fades on the buttons looked really familiar. I think they were big with those page set designers a couple years ago. Probably the reason it rings bells.

That's what I saw anyway. <img border=0 align=absmiddle src="http://www.ozones.com/forum/smile.gif">

Peter

BTW, I'm back from Whitewater Rafting folks..and I know you missed me terribly...heh



ICQ:# 10237808

Yeah, because it was designed for 800x600 goof. and the buttons, well, they were whipped up and beveled so they blended into the theme of the page.

--Stevo--

did you lose a finger? a toe?

goof?

Well here's the thing about designing for one resolution..large, or small....

you'd best be smart enough to make it work for other functional resolutions.

Want it to look great at 640x480..or 800x600? then design it so that the background supports that without repeating, and looking like shit in higher resolutions.

Wanted feedback huh? Something seems off with the response to just that then.

Hope it helps..this time.

Peter

P.S. After surfing the rest of the site, and dodging the broken links, I noticed that the percentage tables with undersized repeating background problem got worse on the Rants page with an entire table of contents overlapping blue stripe repeat. Then it just evens out on the FAQ page by having all the text on the page overlap the repeat stripe.




ICQ:# 10237808

[This message has been edited by DarkGarden (edited 30-08-2000).]

I agree with Dark Garden. Couldn't you do that little sidebar thingy with a table? Just use that blue color as the background for the narrow cell on the left....

Me thinks anyway....

----------------
http://www.krets.net
Broken promises don't bother me. I just think, "Why did they believe me in the first place?" --Jack Handey

yeah, gotta say, it just doesn't work unless your screen width is just right -- and by the way, 800x650 is not in any way a standard resolution. it doesn't work at 800x600 because things run of the page and you're left the Horizontal Scrollbar of Death (HSD)

I personally never use % widths in tables except in special circumstances...for just this reason.

The biggest problem I had was with the navigation -- once you leave the main page there's no way back excpet your browser's back button. Making the logo or the graphic that says "home" link back home might be a good idea <img border=0 align=absmiddle src="http://www.ozones.com/forum/rolleyes.gif">

Gotta agree with DG on the buttons issue also...if you made those yourself you may want to reconsider just because of the similarity to those pre-packaged free-to-use things <img border=0 align=absmiddle src="http://www.ozones.com/forum/biggrin.gif">

Aside from that, if everything lined up properly without having to adjust my screen size just so, it's not a bad site. A little on the dull side, but it's clean and simple.

I agree with all of the above. I don't know if thats what you would call an interface, I could be wrong. I like the logo in the top left, very sharp looking and the colors work.

Hehe, nice gradients, dude...just when I thought no one used them and made a totally uncreative gradient based interface for http://bottestlab.hypermart.net/

What? FRONTPAGE?! Sh*t, dude! I don't know you anymore! GET AWAY! I do almost EVERYTHING in notepad myself...I let image ready slice the images for the bottestlab interface...I retabled the whole thing an tweaked it a crapload in notepad so it came out the way I wanted it to...I think I'll end my anti-wysiwyg html editors rant now...
<Anderson> It's the best html editor out there!
<Sloloem> You mean it's notepad with a new name?

Sloloem: What in Gods name are you talking about?

Stevo: Personally I think the layout sucks. No offense. I dont like the buttons you made. The logos alright but could use some work. The site is made for one resolution and I just dont understand why.

Woohoo welcome back DG. How was your lil trip. I was wondering why I hadnt seen you posting in the last few days...

Anyway Im going to move this into the Site Review section ...

Jestah
ieJestah@hotmail.com
ICQ - 77252449

Editted cuz maybe this post was a bit outta line. Sorry stevo.



[This message has been edited by mbridge (edited 31-08-2000).]

fixing your background for all res is easy. just lop off everything except for the blue part and a little bit of the white. then use css for body { background: white url(background.gif) repeat-y }.

please please please dont use a bold hover when your other anchor identifiers are not bold. it looks realy tacky, especially if it causes the link text to spill onto the next line.

the cell for "coming soon" needs a bit of a margin for that text. its hugging the edge of the cell.

*added* uhh.. you need to check that in netscape. make sure your body tag has all of these: <body marginwidth=0 marginheight=0 leftmargin=0 topmargin=0>. netscape needs marginwidth and marginheight. it doesnt understand leftmargin and topmargin.


[This message has been edited by la'dsasha (edited 30-08-2000).]

Remind me to never post an "someone give me their opinion" message on This BB. There are alot of ways to provide Constructive Criticism, and although i did see some of that, many people forget at times these people are just starting out into this buisness and show alot of promise over others that are too scared to try to master the skill or people who just turn their nose up at it. Sometimes, just as a peice of advise, handling humans is different than handling code. Along with the Criticism, show some respect for what they accomplished and were shooting for. If you look at just the negative side of things, you yourselves are bound to be miserable people.

<img border=0 align=absmiddle src="http://www.ozones.com/forum/smile.gif">

Duality of Man Serves both Good and Evil

Hmm, maybe a few responses were on the harsh side, but it's the best forum for getting critiques I've been to. Gotta be thick-skinned, at least here people will tell you if something is poorly designed so you can remedy the problem. At most design forums I've seen a lot of back-patting over some pretty mediocre work. How do you expect to improve?

im just an html coder... thats about all i can realy say positive about my work.

i visit 3 forums daily that have critique areas (wpts, ozones, and flashkit). i can say that by reading what others have written about sites that have gone up i have learned how to avoid others mistakes.

i have seen some realy sucky stuff out there, and its sad because you dont realy know how to tell these people that their stuff is bad. i had to give someone a bad review on flashkit today. i could only find one positive thing to say about it.

last weekend, i put my latest, greatest achievement up for review on wpts. no one could tear it apart as far as broken coding goes. but thats where i shine. but here, everyone is more concerned about shiney happy images and i probably wouldnt get as good of a review here.

i guess you just have to learn the feel of the board before you put something up for review. ive only put 2 of my works up for critique (ever). the first got realy bad reviews, and the second got neutral reviews.

would you rather have an honest critique that shows you where you need to improve or a polite one that just says "thats nice"? id rather have the first one myself. if i wanted a "thats nice" responce, ill go show my mom.

Hop Goblin- people on this board usually aren't too harsh unless people asking for site reviews attempt to refute the criticisms they receive. It gets really annoying and only draws more harsh criticisms.

On the other hand, if the original poster is thankful for the help("Thanks guys, I'll try to work those points into my design."), even if he isn't thrilled with the reviews, will receive alot more help. As the old saying goes, "You'll catch more flies with honey than with vinegar."

i belive it was this remark that caused the problems:

"Yeah, because it was designed for 800x600 goof."

dg nor anyone else really deserved that, if it was a joke, state it as one. the only reason i did not comment in this section before is because i have a nack for being to harsh. i hate when people do not accept critisism gracefully. when you ask for it, well you ask for it. i think this section would have been a lot more positive if that remark was omitted.

constructive criticism is easy to give, but sometimes hard for people to take when they have worked so hard on something. that is life though, you learn through your mistakes as well as others. <img border=0 align=absmiddle src="http://www.ozones.com/forum/smile.gif">

The only thing you learn in college is how to drink beer(imo of course <img border=0 align=absmiddle src="http://www.ozones.com/forum/smile.gif">

[This message has been edited by timothymcnulty (edited 31-08-2000).]

Looking back my post was by far the harshest but Im sure Stevo understands that I was only critisizing his site to help him out. It was nothing personal at all. We are just trying to help out and point out mistakes he might not have seen. If you guys wanna see harsh critisizm goto DBM's forum under web design. See what Zzoe and others said about my layout. http://surf.to/Jestah I even think I got crappy reviews here. I know its nothing personal and I dont take it that way at all. I think I was pretty pissed about the DBM forum because people went and critisized me for being dumb for trying something else. You will never find that here. The worst we will do is say you have a bad design. Is a bad design all that bad though? Along with saying its bad we will point out why so you can improve it. Its only for others benefits ....

Jestah
ieJestah@hotmail.com
ICQ - 77252449

shit hop goblin, what thread were you reading? I re-read the posts several times, and they were hardly what I would call harsh. Most people offered good criticism, the rest offered only honesty. We will tell you what we think. Everybody has opinions, and will share them when asked.

Calling people you are asking for opinions a "goof" isn't exactly a good way to start either <img border=0 align=absmiddle src="http://www.ozones.com/forum/wink.gif">

This is my first foray into this forum and I was kind of pissed-off for a few minutes there.

I went to check the site in question and there was a personal message to DarkGarden. Very childish and immature.

DarkGarden offered some *very solid* advice concerning screen resolutions and the like. And it would appear, Stevo, that you still have a few things to learn about fixed-width vs. percentage when it comes to tables. And I don't mean how to use them, but how to implement them.

I would like to see the site that started this fiasco. If you put it back up, then I will offer what I can -- but I will do it in my own way. If you don't put it back up, then I guess it's your loss -- even more so than what you've already lost.

I just as soon hope that my immediate future includes giving you something to think about and learn from -- but, like I said, in my own way.

You know, I had once thought that this forum housed some of the better people on the internet that would take some time and see my work for what it is; attempts at something good. I wasn't refuting the opinions and advice, I was defending myself (god forbid anyone take my side in all of this).

That you people don't realize is that perhaps I'm not the best webpage maker in the world. Shit, I'm more than likely the worst around and I admit my little problem, as you people here like to point out. You guys don't care that I spend a good amount of time trying to make the background look just right. You guys don't care that I had gone through 4 different designs trying to get the perfect look, in my opinion, and was actually happy about something I had done finally. You people don't care, you just see something amaturish and decide to fucking trash it for all you're worth. And that, my humble little internet people, has indefinately changed my perspective on this forum.

And DarkGarden and everyone else who got angry at me calling him a 'goof'. Wow. Grow the hell up, are you still *that* insulted by something so damned small? I'm sorry, should I be giving some lunch money back? Run and tell on me, maybe even throw a couple rocks because damned if I'm not the worst person in the world. I made the comment trying to back myself up, trying to stand up for myself and defend my work.

I've learned a couple of things in the past day or so, and I don't like what has been presented to me. I came here for some boosting to my work, to allow others to take a look at what I had done and see what I could do. Apparently doing this on such a forum gets you reamed two way from sunday. Won't be doing it again, I can promise you that much. I'm sorry for wasting everyone's time in visiting my stupid little site, rest assurred I won't be asking any more from you.

I was originally going to be very slanderous in this little message o' mine, people like DL44, DarkGarden and Sloloem were pretty much on a hit list that I was going to spend on verbally smacking them around. I'm not going to do this, I feel that I don't need to.

At long last, the end of the message. Still reading? Probably not. You've all probably stopped reading a long time ago and have already replied with something so mature as 'Shut the hell up Stevo' and I'm sure I'll see a few of them here, as everyone will blindly defend DarkGarden because he's an 'esteemed' part of the forum. Every forum has em, and I certainly seem to have a problem with them. Only problem is that I don't have the backing to help myself out, and come out on top.

I thank you for your time and patients, needless to say, you more than likely won't be seeing me around anymore. Yeah, I'm sure no one gives a shit, but hey, just some info.

--Stevo--

P.S. I'm sorry, I don't know what I was thinking trying to gain acceptance by you people with a webpage. No matter the amount of work and skill I put into something, it's never going to be enough to make everyone in here happy. And, for that, I hope you've drawn a couple of newbies away with this very elegant stomping match. It's internet forums at it's finest! Bravo!

DarkGarden, love ya hon, but grow up.

ICQ# : 957255

wow Stevo, are you for real? You asked for opinions about your site, and we gave them to you. We did not trash your site. We did not ream you two ways from sunday. We did not say anything the least bit rude. We gave you honest opinions about your site -- both good and bad. If you can't take some constructive criticism, how do you expect to ever make it any where at anything in life?

for the recoerd, this forum section is called Site Reviews, not Let's tell everybody they did a great job.

Have you ever been in a college art class? Let me explain why I ask. You have your project. You work your ass off. You have your peice hanging on the wall in class, your pride and joy. The professor comes through and rips it apart in front of 30 other people, making you feel like an idiot in front of all the people you have to work with everyday. *That* is harsh, but it is part of the learning process.

What you have experienced here is *not* harsh, and is also part of the learning process.

My only advive to you is to grow up and put your damn site back online. If our opinions are so worthless, why do they cause you to take down the site?

hmm... as the proud sponsor of th-inknet.com, that which has been deconstructed numerous times under the tutilage of those who haven't spent the myriad hours staring into it's bottomless carapice of code, i can say with utmost sincerity that the folks here give honest, striking reports on what they see and experience...rather like anyone does when they eat something they don't like. should the chef get somber when we admit that it's not to our tastes? Of course not. he can either A) change the recipe, or B) stick with it, because *HE* believes in it.

...I'm proud of pretty things. I really like them. I loooove shiney bits of metal that can attract a mate. I don't like icky things.

I host th-inknet.com.

Stevo's page is th-inknet.com/njuice.

Ergo, something many people think is ugly is sitting on my server.

But I also know where Stevo stands in the situation of web development. He's new at it. We gave a cutting response to what he showed, and both sides have now taken heavy damage because of it, whether it be in respect or in morality.

I say with utmost sincerity that I don't mind having something deemed "ugly" sitting on my site. Right now, I'm not too happy with .js files, but they're sitting there. so are myriad PERL scripts. ugly ugly ugly, because I do not know how to script them so that they are pretty.

...if I posted them for review in the coding sections here, I would get jeered...and probably several kernals of truth that I could gleen off and make into my own style........if I wanted to.

But lets face it folks, if I am strong-set in my beliefs that a page I've designed is the coolest thing ever, I'm not going to change anything, whether or not you like it. If I hate it, I'll do anything you ask. If I don't really like it, but am too proud to admit it, I'm going to get defensive, just as we watched here in this forum. So, what has this taught us? Stevo is a prick? DarkGarden should grow up? Naaahh, this has taught us that someone posted a site that he made that he wasn't *sure* of, and we tore it to bits because we *were* sure of it. So is there actually a personal isssue here?

I guess that's for the judges to decide.

Regardless, the point remains that I have no problem hosting something that is ugly. Take that however you want. I could throw the obligatory "everyone grow up" right now, but we're all mature here--you're hearing it in your head anyway...and you have since it began, but you've been directing it outside of yourself. If Stevo wants to take it personally, he can. If DG wants to, he's also obliged to. No skin off my nose--I'm still over here doing what *I* have to get done. While you all bicker, you're accomplishing nothing. This thread should've been closed the moment a debate erupted. ...but that's in the admin's duty, not mine.

Cheers, keep designing.



(edit) terrible spelling...(sigh)

[This message has been edited by twItch^ (edited 31-08-2000).]

Actually, I must say I agree with stevo on this one. I haven't replied to this thread yet because I saw so many negative comments and so few good ones. I understand the importance of telling people what's wrong about a page, but whatever happened to tact? Some posts contained blatant insults to the work, others contained only negative comments, which is OK, but they weren't complemented by any positive ones.

Please, *always* say *something* positive about people's work. ripping it apart won't give them any reason to keep trying at it. And if there are tons of things wrong with it, only mention some of them - then mention the rest the next time they post an interface. And always do it in the kindest tone possible.

I sincerely appologize to Stevo, and I hope you don't leave the forum because of this.

I also hope we don't get in a huge fight. I've seen things like this in other forums; I'm sure we all have. Please, lets not let it happen here!

- Slime

None of the posts I can read now seem particularly harsh. mbridge edited his out, so I can't see what he said, but DarkGarden seemed quite civil and addressed a very valid concern.
If I browse at 1024x768 and see a repeated background tromping on content, I immediately go to a different site. Many people do the same.

Jestah did state that he felt that 'the layout sucks', but that's his opinion. You can't design to make everyone happy all the time, just many of the people most of the time. If you ask for site reviews, you pretty much have to expect some posts that say '{aspect of site} sucks, imo'.

But would it hurt to say
'{aspect of site} could be improved, imo'?

Hmm I must say that this seemed to be one of the more tame reviews I've seen in a while.

Anyway here is my $.02 on the criticism. (note I came in late so I didn't get to see the site) It does seem of late that some of the reviews around here are getting a bit harsh. There was in fact another posting somewhere around here of late that got downright nasty (the stop sign one). Personally when I give creative advice I realize that any type of "art" is totally subjective so if I am going to make comments I try to temper those with that realiziation. I also try to use the old "sandwich method" which I picked up from being a high school water polo coach. Something good. - BAD BAD BAD - Something Good. It just keeps morale up. In this situation most of the advice I saw was technical as opposed to artistic. These aren't people saying "you suck, burn your monitor" as opposed to this doesn't work, here is how you might fix it. Also here is my thing. I am not a designer but I am a pretty talented coder. But the thing is I realize that and I don't sweat it. If I post something artistic and look for reviews I dont get defensive or bent out of shape if I don't hear what I like. I know my strengths and most importantly my weaknesses.

In terms of DarkGarden's post. I have come to respect his opinions a lot since he became a member of this board. He never slams people and always comes off with good, constructive advice and this case is no different. (personally designing for 800x600 is very short sighted). Calling him a goof was uncalled for and calling him childish, just reflects your own lack of self-esteem. In neither of his posts did he represent himself in anything but a respectful manner even after the "goof" thing. There may be some in this list that deserve to be rebuked but he isn't one of them.

Stevo one other thing next time you say you are not going to lay the verbal smack down then don't. That last comment to DG was absolutly unnecessary.

Anyway would have loved to see the site would have been more helpful.

mike


Walking the Earth like Kane

Before I start off on chapter 2, I'd like to thank twitch for letting me snag some space on his server. And thanks for backing me, Slime. You too Hop.

Not much to say, I'm actually quite down about this whole thing. To avoid getting in a pissing contest with DL44, I won't make any snyde remarks directed towards him as a person, rather I'll comment on what he said.

Yes, DL, I am for real. But perhaps you don't realize that some people take things a different way than you do. Because you can take a verbal beating of something you've done doesn't mean everyone else will automatically take it the same way as you. this, to me is a hobby. Something I do for fun. If someone doesn't like my stuff, that's perfectly fine with me. I mean, everything is in a matter of personal choice and taste. But when I work on something and the next thing I know I have 11 people telling me that all my work sucks and that everything I just did was 'ugly' and 'cookie cutter (or whatever)' then yes, I tend to get just a wee bit depressed over the whole thing.

I agree, the forum is called Site Reviews. REVIEW being the key word in here, man. That doesn't mean that some of the critisism in this thread can't be taken right, I've seen a couple things I could change and make better (i.e. making the blue bar on the left the background color of a single cell *would* work a hell of a lot better), but the general feel I got was that of extreme hostility. And frankly, folks, I didn't like it. Sorry if that seems pussy, or weak to some of you people but hey, I'm HUMAN so it's allowed.

Will the site go back up? Less than likely. The idea of it has pretty much been blown into dust. Will I stay on the forums? Does anyone really care, I reply. Again, probably not.

--Stevo--

Well, tact IS an important thing, and so maybe they shouldn't have been so harsh on Stevo. But DL-44 has an important point. When you put something up for critiques the response you get in professional circles is how to make it better, not pats on the back.

So to Stevo I say this: Put on your thick skin, make some changes, and get that damn site back up. No one thinks less of you because you haven't spent as many countless hours as the next guy developing web pages.

Honestly, the only post that was out of line IMHO was sloloems, that was just mean. But apart from that (and Jestah's too I guess, was a little pointless) there was plenty of easy-to-apply constructive criticism. The first site I posted here got all bad reviews even though my boss was in awe of it, sure I WANTED to hear something nice, but what they said actually helped improve it greatly. And let me tell you that that kind of help will dwindle the better you get, so you should be thankful someone has the gumption to tell you what's wrong with your shit.

Also, there's no reason to have ot defend yourself. If you designed for 800x600 because you didn't think about it then change it, if you did it because you have a vendetta against people with other resolutions than state that. But I don't see how you can take it so hard when people say they hate repeating backgrounds that aren't supposed to be there, or that designs should support a variety of resolutions. Maybe you never thought of that consideration before, isn't getting opinions on stuff like that why you posted?

Oh and please don't take this message as "I agree with DL-44 and the rest of the people who are against you". I'm just saying what I'm saying because I don't want to see a budding webdesigner give it all up because of some less than thoughtful posts about his work. Your point is totally valid, but think about the important thing here: your own personal growth. If you let this kind of thing get to you now then what happens when you get into the big corporate world where no one gives a rat's ass about your feelings? Again, this isn't meant as a negative comment on you at all, just something reflect on.



[This message has been edited by jiblet (edited 31-08-2000).]

Stevo: Why are you taking this so bad? Your considering not putting your site online and not comming back to the Asylum because you got bad reviews? I just dont see what the big deal is. Its constructive critisizm. In my first post I pretty much just agreed with DG and said that I didnt like the layout. I dont know why anyone would say it was pointless. Whoever said my post was pointless I just want you to know that I think all these posts "attacking" or "defending" Stevo are pointless. Theres no need for it here. This is a site review section. Here we review sites. Sometimes you get a great review. Sometimes you get a bad review. Sometimes you get an alright review. You always get an honest review. Why would you honestly consider not putting your site online or not returning here because of a bad review? The reviews for your site arent reviews for you. It doesnt meant that we think you suck or that you have no talent. It means we didnt like your design ... thats all. Nothing personal man.

Jestah
ieJestah@hotmail.com
ICQ - 77252449

Alright Im closing this thread now. Stevo, I urge you to get your site back online and stay a member of this community. No one thinks different of you at all, believe me. You can always login as a different user name and no one would know the difference. Think about it.

Jestah
ieJestah@hotmail.com
ICQ - 77252449