Preserved Topic: purgatory..... (Page 1 of 1)

Man, you guys are tough. I don't mind the competitive aspect, but the constant reminders of how little I know is turning into a destructive force.

The comments about colors, blurs, "seen it before", and such, ought to be a personal taste, no? I appreciate those who make such comments by adding "my own taste".

And twitch is absolutely killing me with his knowledge and skill. I wish I could take classes from the guy.

But here I sit on the rug in front of my computer, with what feels like a hangover. I should start drinking heavily, so I have another reason to feel like this.

...swept out through the cracks beneath the door...

if it makes you feel any better you're always more than welcome to make disparaging remarks about my designs.

seriously though, it takes a long time to get this stuff down i think. some of the better designers around here have been doing this stuff for quite some time, just stick with it man.

cheers.mikey.milker

heres my view on it Rancid.

I have posted several sites here at the asylum...

1. I never post an incomplete site

2. I post mainly as a browser check cos I know the guys here have different browsers and *will* point out any problems.

3. The reason I post when I have finished a site and not before is cos I *am* the designer.. I wouldnt have finshed a site without *me* being happy with it!.. Other peoples critiques and ideas are always interesting to hear, however, it would take a bombshell for anyone to get me to change my design... like you said... design is all relative! beauty is in the eye of the beholder and all that.

4. I am not a web designer for living.. but I sure appreciate the guys here who are, and I value there opinions as professionals. I don't expect
to get kisses from everyone.

5. honesty is the best policy <img border=0 align=absmiddle src="http://www.ozones.com/forum/smile.gif">

6. Remember everyone here is only human! everyone.. there are no 'gods' so to speak.. lol.. some very talented people I grant you , but not infalable! ..

7. Rome wasnt built in a day!

and thats all I got to say about that! cept pass the beer ! <img border=0 align=absmiddle src="http://www.ozones.com/forum/wink.gif"> and whys your puter on teh floor?.. hmmmm

~Vp~

wow mikey - that's the nicest thing ive ever heard you say.
um, im not sure what ive said, but here's basically the way you can interpret mine ( and maybe some other poeples) comments:
1) whenever i say something, its always IMO.
2) if i see a site that is utter crap, i dont bother commenting. if it shows potential, then i will comment, to try and see it improve. otherwise its a waste of your time and mine.
ok a lectures starting in 2 minutes ago, so i gotta go.

o) What competitive aspect? I shudder at the thought.

o) Comments about colours, blurs, "seen it before", and such are related to having your work out there, being seen, hopefully by lots of ppl looking for something new and a bit different. It is in part a personal thing but in many cases its about what stands up in public. If you really feel that its necessary to preface every comment with - this is just my opinion - then so be it I guess. But I?ll prolly forget to do it - so from now on :

o) Wheneva I say something its always BunchaPixels opinion - If I say something you don't like - blame him =)

o) Don?t ask for an opinion on your work if you cant take being told bluntly that your work aint up to scratch. Because from time to time your work wont be. This shouldn?t be confused with 'You personally aint up to scratch' as you and your work are different things.

o) Those who tell you bluntly that your work needs work will also give up valuable time to help you.

o) You can never get any worse at this if you keep trying. Even with minimal effort it's impossible, unavoidable to actually make worse - say grx but could be anything - than you did last year.

o) I couldn't be serious in a room full of jack-knife eyes.

o) Whys your puter on the floor?

Damn, I am flattered. Thanks!

But you raise several good points (as do others that have replied). In defense of my words, I say this: often I am responding through a sense of opinionation. However, I also tend to inflect some actual "truth" in my commentary (whatever "truth" may be to you). I speak as a web designer that does so for a living...but more than that, I'm on a personal crusade to get rid of all the crappy pages out there--and no, I'm not implying that your pages are crappy. But when I talk about colors, that's from years of working with it. If I mention "seen it before" it's in the same vein as someone saying the same thing about a movie--lets be honest, new and exciting ideas are far more interesting than one that gets used over and over and over again.

Classes from me, Rancid? I thought that's what I was doing.

As always, my email is open 24x7, you're welcome to ask questions, whether they are vague or specific--and that goes for everyone.

I don't want anyone to think I'm just as jackass...I have my good qualities.

weadah - i hope you never critique one of my sites. ill get too damn confused.
i mean, if you say you dont like it, then does that mean i dont like it? grrr..... <img border=0 align=absmiddle src="http://www.ozones.com/forum/smile.gif">
ok, now, back to what i was ranting before....

3) i dont know if anyone is like me, but i often just pass over the "this is a great site" aspect, and get straight into ripping. this is probably a bad thing to do, so i aplogise in advance, but i kinda take the fact that the site is a good one for granted. when i post a site, im more interested in what needs work, not what's good.

ok, now, i think ill have to cross check this sig with shi, but tell me how im doing:

bunchapixels.
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[This message has been edited by bunchapixels (edited 15-12-2000).]

Just don't even listen to me. I usually say I like it and offer nothing constructive anyway. I don't know why I bother.

Cut out tht self-deprecating behavior and get back to work, ...swept out through the cracks beneath the door... I mean really, *I* love you. Heheh, really you oughta take what you like and ferget the rest. It's *your* stuff right? I don't *think* anyone would club you for going with what you like, well mebbe they would... uh what? Oh yeah, like I said - nothing constructive...

weedah -- I just wanted to say...I'm raising my glass (quite literally mind you) in a toast to you and your cynicism right now <img border=0 align=absmiddle src="http://www.ozones.com/forum/biggrin.gif">

o) hehehehehe.....................

lol cheers =)

Thanks guys. But I never got any criticism of my work that I couldn't take. That's not it. I need that.

It's watching you guys talk about each other's work. I feel like a field mouse, watching lions wrestle.

I witness your discourse over whether designer-A has properly configured the star clusters in his new galaxy. Then I go back to my elementary basket weaving while I use the sleeve of my straightjacket to wipe the drool from my chin.

Why do I sit on a rug? My setup is centered on a hand-crafted gray & white marble top coffee table with a swirling blue plasma lamp at each end. I have my computer sound channeled through a very large pair of 5-way stereo speakers behind me. Behind my computer screen, I have a large picture window with a giant Norfolk Pine just outside. Tropical birds stop to rest in it's branches, through which I watch Hawaiian sunsets display electrifying combinations of colors I have never seen before.

I sit on a thick-padded rug in the center of it all because I like to envelop myself in my work. I want to do this for a living.

But compared to you guys, I suck! hehehehe

...swept out through the cracks beneath the door...

you've got it rough there pal. I'll be heading your way in Feb, you should meet me at the airport and take me directly to your padded carpet and system for my viewing pleasure. Sounds lovely.

Yea, I usually make kinda soft reviews because I dont wanna discourage anyone and I dont think it would mean the same comming from me who isnt as quite a talented webdesigner ...

yeah rancid i know exzactly how you feel... man i feel like that all the time :-) .... sometimes i'm like .. oh fuck .. i dont know anything.. its all to hard :-(. but just stick with it. :-)
hehe

Hmm, I find myself in "dry" periods like I'm going through now, I watch some of the truly intricate pieces I see others do, and I feel much like you do, Rancid. Really, I look at the pieces I create, and realize just how *simple* some (most) of them are, at these times I feel kind of like a cheat, heh. Then, at other times I realize that maybe that very simplicity makes my work super-special, I must be a genius! Then I start bashing and trashing my work again, hrmph.

And I am a very confident person, for a designer! (Some might say "arrogant", heh.) Malin's even more creative than me, but she hardly ever feels great about *any* of her designs.

So, the point! (Did I have a point?) Ranc, you may be one of those people who never get to feel completely great about your work, or not often. It doesn't reflect on your work, just an internal thing. The fact of the matter is, you're a member of our community here, a valuable one. YOU belong HERE. Take that for what it's worth, but you belong here.

Your pal, -doc-

Thanks everyone. And Doc... that meant a lot coming from you. Thanks.

...swept out through the cracks beneath the door...

I know I'm late, Rancid, but I finally have a moment to talk about the issues that have been raised in this thread...all of which have merit and need to be discussed from every possible angle. For that matter, these issues should be constantly refreshed for new designers and old.

:::

We all have dry spells when it comes to design. We all wake up some mornings saying "I'm a hack, nothing I do is original, and I'll never be as successful as my determination demands," and are unable to go to sleep that night because of the same reason; when will they find out that I'm worthless?

Zeldman made some excellent points on this in his A List Apart that struck poignantly with me. While we designers may look like we've got the best jobs in the world, there's really more to it. We're constantly "frustrated by a Technology Gap, an Expectation Gap, and the ancient gap between Art and Commerce." That's more than enough fodder to make you think what you do isn't important to anyone (sometimes, even yourself!).

:::

So, how does anyone get through it all? We have to remember that even DiVinci had dry spells. Programmers are sometimes unable to code original things. Authors, painters, construction workers--we ::all:: have issues with the creative process from time to time. Does this mean that what we do is unimportant and ambiguous when it comes to the greater good? Of course not. What that means is that we're humans just like everyone else (save for Jakob Nielson, of course...but we knew that already), and we should feel perfectly at liberty to make mistakes from time to time--or hell, like me, make mistakes every third activity.

Keep your chin up, keep reading, keep learning. Always remember, though, that we exist to give meaning. They say a picture is worth a thousand words, and I agree. Without our prowess, a picture would be worth nothing, color would have no meaning, and people would all be tope colored. Keep at it.

Well Twitch^. I posted a thank you here already, but it's not here. So in case this shows up, Thanks again.

Sheesh, talk about pugatory...

...swept out through the cracks beneath the door...

[This message has been edited by RANCID (edited 22-12-2000).]