Preserved Topic: Re-education of BlackSoulSunday (Page 1 of 2)

I suppose the issue of BlackSoulSunday ripping images from several artists around the community is fairly well known now. In a quick recap, apparently BlackSoulSunday submitted a site for a review containing stolen images and a few members called him on that. Some of the stolen images were from our beloved eyezaer. A few of our members, including myself, have sent him, his host, and affiliates emails letting them know the situation. To date his sites still up and I propose ...

OPERATION: TAKE BACK THE NIGHT

So we can contiune the discussion of how to hand BlackSoulSunday his ass right here.

Feel free to read up on BlackSoulSunday or your favorite Marvel Universe hero in the following threads:

• BSS the Ripper
• Tnx 4 keeping my ratings up!
• What do you think?
• Blacksoulsunday is a ripper....

Happy hunting


--------------
cheers.jay

[This message has been edited by Jestah (edited 04-26-2002).]

Information the average user would be lost without:

IP 209.1.224.24 (Virtual Root exposed)
Domain Name.......... blacksoulsunday.com
Creation Date........ 2001-11-06
Registration Date.... 2001-11-06
Expiry Date.......... 2002-11-06
Organisation Name.... John Wycoco
Organisation Address. 347 N. Saturmino Dr. apt. 7
Organisation Address.
Organisation Address. Palm Springs
Organisation Address. 92262
Organisation Address. CA
Organisation Address. UNITED STATES

Admin Name........... John Wycoco
Admin Address........ 347 N. Saturmino Dr. apt. 7
Admin Address........
Admin Address........ Palm Springs
Admin Address........ 92262
Admin Address........ CA
Admin Address........ UNITED STATES
Admin Email.......... Kimo@blacksoulsunday.com
Admin Phone.......... 760-322-3129
Admin Fax............

Tech Name............ YahooDomains Techcontact
Tech Address......... 701 First Ave.
Tech Address.........
Tech Address......... Sunnyvale
Tech Address......... 94089
Tech Address......... CA
Tech Address......... UNITED STATES
Tech Email........... domain.tech@YAHOO-INC.COM
Tech Phone........... 1-619-881-3096
Tech Fax.............
Name Server.......... ns8.san.yahoo.com
Name Server.......... ns9.san.yahoo.com

This is who the number belongs to
Editha Zervoulakos
380 N Sunrise Way
Palm Springs, CA 92262


--------------
cheers.jay

I think this was a revelent thread that you missed: Blacksoulsunday is a ripper....

Why thank you Synthetic, I've updated my list of reading material.



I'm really getting into this. Maybe we can develop cool codenames for each other and share warplans?

I'll be the General.

--------------
cheers.jay

Why did this get moved to the Mad Scientists labratory? Might have well just locked it and not started another one.
Another thread consigned to oblivion?

How's it going so far? Did his ISP pay any attention to the emails? And, save for emailing the aforementioned ISP, is there anyhting I can do to help?

Jestah, thanks a bunch for shutting those other threads down, that was getting kinda scary for the newbies. ;-) That reason alone was enough to move this topic out of the main lobby, and this seems a good a place as any to discuss this. BTW, I got a personal mail from the guy who goes by the name of "zro1zro", and I can guarantee you, he is not the same person as "blacksoulsunday". (Actually, he's one of the mildly freaked out new entrants to the forum, heh. I know him by his other name though, he's a real person, who, for good reason, thought it best to remain somewhat anonymous until he could be sure he would not be eaten by the crazy people, hah!)

I'm still waiting to hear back from BSS, I sent him a nice email, I admit I really expected he'd have answered me by now. Mostly he's seeming just sad and stupid at this point, too bad. ;-)

Your pal, -doc-

Yeah, he kinda reminds of the kids at the basketball court who got no game, hack the hell out of you, and get their ass handed to them, and spend the whole time spewing an endless barrage of bullshit. In other words, they somehow get pleasure out of making people hate them, go figure.

Although I must admit I'm a bit puzzled why he would impersonate others to make it look someone likes him. Especially considering how obvious it is since he has a very unique form of degenerate language that identifies him every time. It's almost tempting to call up his parents and say,

"Uhm, sorry to bother you ma'am, I know you already worry about your son plenty, but he is building quite a reputation as a thief and a liar on-line. Perhaps you should take away his computer before he digs himself any deeper."

But when I think of how this kid probably is in real life, I can't bring myself to add even more stress to his parents' life. On the other hand, maybe they're the reason he turned out like he did



-jiblet

That kind of behaviour is often characterised in the form of Autism known as Asperger's Syndrome, but we can never know. As I already said to the Doc Via e-mail, I'm in to help which ever way I can, just let me know. I can do the Many anonymous email thing, or I can send polite, but firmly, worded emails to his affiliates, ISP, Domain hoster (which may or may not be the same thing, I don't know), Yahoo, anyone else who lists him. Just give me a job and I'll do it.

BTW: How did you come accross that domain information Jestah? Mucho cool.

Cheers Guys and Gals

Koan 63:
Those who Believe
Can
Those who Try
Do
Those who Love
Live

[This message has been edited by Skaarjj (edited 04-27-2002).]

Skaarjj: http://www.netsol.com/cgi-bin/whois/whois

Type in his domain name and presto chango.

-Jestah

Aaahhh...dat's cool. Good resource in case shit like this ever happens again.



Koan 63:
Those who Believe
Can
Those who Try
Do
Those who Love
Live

Yea it's a useful resource. Of course it should also be known that it isn't always a 100 % accurate, but thats a rare case as far as I've seen.

Oddly enough, someone type in ozones.com and check the output you get there. That's an interesting title you've given yourself Doc.

-Jestah

I use a program called NeoTrace that can trace IPs and urls back to the main registrar. I got much of the same info from that as what's listed above.


WolfenMedia

Ok, found the thread...have to wait until tomorrow to find out what his provider says...because I mailed them from work...and I have to work tomorrow, so...we will see.
Here is what BSS has to say about ripping websource....

quote:

---

( I was ripped by my comments here, and it's being resolved)

---

Yeah, right....unbelievable to what outrageous lies he goes to...

and as for zro1zro, I apologize for that.

[This message has been edited by WebShaman (edited 04-27-2002).]

What are these Ratings he's talking about ? Does he have pay-per-view banners ?
Anyway ..

it would be so funny, if someone lived near him and videotaped someone running up to him on the street and giving him a smack in the face and shouting something like " FOR THE ASYLUM " and then posted it here. It just annoys me the ways hes like "ah you cant do anything and my 'ratings' are up " !! gah, but I guess thats what he wants us to think .. mmh

Is he still a member here or was he kicked out ? just thinking ... you cant really kick someone out of a forum can you ? they just come back under a diff alias. In another forum, I cant remember what happened exactly , art plagarism of some sort, and some moderator just said "right InsertSomeAlias , just sign up again, your getting nothing but abuse and your an idiot, if you can make it a second time with out pissing everyone off, you'll realise its much better that way.". anywho ...

(Blade ][ is pretty good, its fast-action physics-defying madness, just remember to leave our brain at home when whatching)

The poster has demanded we remove all his contributions, less he takes legal action.
We have done so.
Now Tyberius Prime expects him to start complaining that we removed his 'free speech' since this message will replace all of his posts, past and future.
Don't follow his example - seek real life help first.

Hew: That might be the way things get done in Dublin but here we give out straighjacket wedgies (sometimes of the chainsaw variety) - although a quick custard pie to the face would be appropriate for a clown!!! The Doc doesn't like excluding people - as you say they can always come back as someone else. In the end they tend to get bored and wander off somewhere else to cause mischief.

Emps

The poster has demanded we remove all his contributions, less he takes legal action.
We have done so.
Now Tyberius Prime expects him to start complaining that we removed his 'free speech' since this message will replace all of his posts, past and future.
Don't follow his example - seek real life help first.

We'd whip his pansy little arse!



Koan 63:
Those who Believe
Can
Those who Try
Do
Those who Love
Live

The poster has demanded we remove all his contributions, less he takes legal action.
We have done so.
Now Tyberius Prime expects him to start complaining that we removed his 'free speech' since this message will replace all of his posts, past and future.
Don't follow his example - seek real life help first.

The poster has demanded we remove all his contributions, less he takes legal action.
We have done so.
Now Tyberius Prime expects him to start complaining that we removed his 'free speech' since this message will replace all of his posts, past and future.
Don't follow his example - seek real life help first.

Ini: Reitvelds not coming back? Did I miss something?

Hew: It probably isn't worth the effort for the good Doc to log BlackSoulSundays IP and then ban him. I don't imagine he visits this forum too often anymore, nor will he be. I think for the most part our little mini-war is over with. He's taken down a good portion of his stolen graphics. We've had his Shoutbox disabled. We've smeared his name. We've also sent emails to his host. The balls in Yahoos hands for the time being.

I for one had a good time sending email out to his 'affiliates' exposing him for what he is, although there seemed to be a problem with it. I received a few replies and most of which never heard of Delta V or BlackSoulSunday. The rest said it was simple link trades.

Anyone have any word on Yahoo yet? I haven't gotten a reply from them and it seems his sites still there.

-Jestah

At this time...no reply from Yahoo! Still waiting...

Now, I would like to take some time here to say something...

Through this entire 'incident', I've learned alot. I have never really got so invoved in such a case (though I have sent mails before on such cases), so a lot of this was new for me. What really came as a shock to me during the 'reasearching' of this incident, was just how blatant ripping has become (maybe I have been living in a shell). I get the feeling that this type of stuff is increasing, and becoming more and more 'normal'. This is disturbing. Some of the things that I think I have learned here is to push ones own skills, and to be honest. Thus, it is to my dismay that I see the opposite running so wildly through the net. I am wondering if others think simularly along these lines.

Now Doc mentioned maybe starting a forum about ripping...before I suggest that maybe that is a good idea, I would like to first see what others here think about it.

I would also like to discuss and exchange information about proceeding against rippers. I have become aware that it is a fine line between pursing (and 'punishing') a ripper, and becoming a part of the problem because of 'overzealous' pursuit. Therefore, to avoid similar problems in the future, maybe it would be a good idea at least to have an area where information can be exchanged. Also, it would be nice to learn what works, and what does not. It would also be to our advantage to have an area where these type of things could be dealt with, without involving the 'main' forum....and therefore avoiding 'scaring' any newcomers...just my thoughts on this.

[This message has been edited by WebShaman (edited 04-28-2002).]

Personally, I think a separate forum for things of this nature would be a good idea. Hopefully, it would never be used, but if another case like BSS were to pop up, there would be a place where retribution could be discussed.

I started coming to the forum just before BSS showed up, so I witnessed the whole brouhaha from the beginning. As a result, I was not so frightened by the incident as people who showed up in the middle. I must admit, though, that I was a bit surprised by the violent backlash. I was still a newbie (still am, actually) trying to feel his way out in the Asylum and not make too many enemies. When I posted my feelings of helplessness over the BSS issue, I was promptly jumped on, and I made haste to make my position clear lest I get on the bad side of some of the more established members here (btw, I have no hard feelings over any of that, so no one needs to say anything about it ). I'm pretty easy going, but I definitely think it would have been easy for newbies to be scared off by all of this.

I would also like to ask a few questions, if I may, mainly because I am not too familiar with this sort of situation. Something I asked several times (but never really received a clear cut answer to) was whether or not we can take legal action against a ripper. In other words, do ISPs cancel accounts on the grounds of stolen graphics? Is it a matter of morality or is it a matter of law? I would think that copyright law would have some relevance here, but I don't know how copyright law applies to computer graphics. I would imagine that stealing someone's graphics and passing them off as your own is wrong, but I don't know the legal specifics. I ask this because if we have legal recourse a "procedure" can be developed for this kind of situation which we would be able to carry out quickly and quietly, without having to resort to a pointless back and forth. Just take action and move on. (I guess what I'm saying here is there should be a lot less talk than action: a warning to the offender, followed by a simple message if they fail to comply. Something along the lines of "You have pissed off the Asylum. Have a nice day." Or maybe something more "professional." Then we would quietly set the wheels in motion in move on.)

Also, it has become pretty evident to me that BSS has more or less fabricated the world in which he believes he exists: a world where he has many friends and affiliates who all are in awe of his amazing skills. I vaguely remember hearing once about legislation that sought to put constraints on who you could link to (ie, you could only link to sites with their permission), but I doubt it passed. Other than that, I don't know if there is anything that could be done about what he's doing in that respect (or if we would even want to bother to do anything). Stealing people's work is (or should be) a crime. Living in a fantasy world because your life sucks is just sad.

I think the general feeling now is that we have done what we can against BSS (I use the word "we," but mostly I just watched) and it is nearing time to move on. I do not believe graphics rippers should be ignored, but I also don't think we should let things get out of hand. Let's face it: we can rant and rave, get parts of his site taken down, maybe even succeed in getting Yahoo to cancel his account, but John Wycoco is not going to change because of this. Even if Yahoo does cancel his account, he will simply find another ISP and build another site, recreating his fantasy world that he so badly needs. Yeah, he's pissed me off with his comments, but I've been thinking a lot lately about how I deal with people, and I'm really starting to feel sorry for him. I'm not saying we shouldn't have done what we did, but we need to make sure we don't get sucked down to his level. I agree with everyone who says it's time to move on. I know I'm still a newbie, and what I think may not count for much yet, but there it is, for what it's worth.



[This message has been edited by Suho1004 (edited 04-28-2002).]

Suho1004, well, I guess you've brought up some valid points. For one, that which you refer to 'jumping on'. Yes, maybe I was a bit harsh. This is one of the things that I meant in 'over-zealous' reactions. I was concentrated on a point, and in the 'heat of the battle' I totally 'forgot' that yes, you are new here. Hopefully (and as I see in your post, probably) you have seen that I wasn't trying to 'jump on' you, but rather to show you that it is possible to do something about this problem.

It is always good to see that someone new here has the intelligence to sort these things out. In that, I think you have a pretty good 'head' on your shoulders. Be looking forwards to seeing, and hearing, more from you.

To the next point - yes, I think this thing is winding down. In order to remain 'in the right', so to speak, I do not have any other plans other than those already implimented. I feel (and rightly so) that everything that can be done has been done. I still stand by my words that I do not intend to resort to any other 'actions' on my behalf. That would go against my 'code of honor'. I learned from the Gulf War that means do not justify action. It is very easy to 'cross the line', and to resort to that which one abhorrs. I have always believed that truth wins out over deceit. One just has to 'stick it out'...that means fighting for what one believes is right. The defining factor here is that of 'fighting'. I have always attempted to follow the guidelines of (IMHO) a very wise man, Ghandi, that 'fighting' should be non-violent. I have not always been successful in doing this, however, I try. In this case, I think all avenues (of non-violence) have been followed. And it has been successful. That, IMHO, is enough.

I wasn't trying to put you on the spot, WebShaman. That's why I said no one needs to say anything about it! It's all water under the bridge...

I am glad to hear that you are willing to let the situation stand as it is, no matter what may come to pass. I must admit, though, it was fun watching you on the warpath . I think you have succeeded in doing what you set out to do, and it has been a good learning experience for everyone.

Group hug!

Heh, well, it seems that we keep pretty much the same 'surf times' here at the asylum...that means we'll probably 'bump' into one another more often...I find that interesting...looking forward to more in the future...

Well, considering I work from home, there will be times when I'm checking in at all hours. Other days I may not be around at all. I don't doubt, however, that we'll be seeing more of each other. But you've really got to stop asking me such difficult questions!

Yes, that was a 'simple' but difficult question now, wasn't it? And not easy to answer. Thus, the question, which pretty much sums up the whole thread there, I think. Now on to something else...

This thread is of interest to follow (and to post to, if anyone cares to)

http://www.neofrog.com/thePAD/viewtopic.php?t=2120

This may be one of the biggest 'deciding' points in the whole battle (with the possible exception of Yahoo!, which I still haven't heard from). Why? Because it is another big community, and one that I think 'houses' many of BSSs 'associates'. If they decide (and are presented with enough evidence) against BSS (you have to understand, that everyone here knows what's going on, but to outsiders, it's not so obvious) then I think that his isolation from a huge portion of the internet community will be implimented. I would recommend that all evidence that anybody has be directed to this area. The more, the merrier.

And while here things are coming to a close, just remember that the rest of the net is still trying to decide...



[This message has been edited by WebShaman (edited 04-28-2002).]

Suho1004: regarding the legal part:
Taking ones creative work and representing it as you own is illegal. Copyright implies that the creator has the right to decide who copies what of his work. So we can get little bss there.

As far as I understood the Digital Millienium Copyright Act (DMCA), the ISP or hoster is not responsible for the data he transmits, as long as he is unaware of the copyright infriment. Now, Webshaman told Yahoo about it, they have to do something.
They can
a) either get the stolen images offline (probably by just wipping bss's account, keeping his money since it's probably in their Terms-of-Use that they may),
or
b) do nothing and wait to get sued.

Guess what they will do...

so long,

Tyberius Prime

Do we need a new forum for ripping?

I'm not sure we do really. This kind of thing comes up every month or two and so most of the time it would be pretty dead (although it may attract more traffic if it was there - I quite like 'Jack the Ripper' as a title!!). Also most of the times this is sort out quite quickly and easily (like the horse lady!!). Possibly a better idea might to develop some guidelines so we can swing into action quickly and get things right (if/when we have a proper FAQ this would be perfect for there). I'd suggest stuff like:

0. If you site has been ripped you are not alone drop a message in the main forum and we will develop a aplan to address the problem asap following these guidelines:

1. Take screenshots of rips as people coming along later, while the ripper is wriggling on the hook and changing content, will need proof.

2. Keep everything legal and visible (no DoS attacks, no hacking and have all the discussion on the board so we are all legally secure - we don't really want to grab the Doc's good name through any mud now).

3. Get contact details and urge other inmates to contact the offender and their ISPs (and any affiliates) with a polite email.

4. Make use of and forge closer contacts with sites dedicated to dealing with this kind of thing (like pirated-sites.com and the pixel theft forum someone posted).

5. Lets not turn this into a witchhunt. Speaking up in defense of the ripper does not mean someone is in league with them (or even condones their actions) - we need a diversty of opinion to keep things in proportion and/or we may need to explain our facts and display the evidence better.

6. Remain vigilant as some people have taken down the pirated content and waited until the heat was off before putting it all back again.

Suho1004: As you are still finding you feet here I'll pass on a warning (that should also be addressed in an FAQ) - don't call for a group hug, ever. The last time it happened there was far too much ass grabbing!!

Emps

*grabs Emps ass* Woo hooo LOL

*smacks vog*

You stay away from me you hear!

-Jestah

wouldnt grab your ass with a twelve foot barge pole Jestah!

Well I thought it was best to have a 'no name, no blame' policy on the ass grabbing but vp was clearly the worst offender!!

~whispers to vp~ #I see what you mean about Jestah#

Emps

*wonders how you grab someone's ass with a barge pole...*

Wang: its an english saying, sorta indicates that someone wouldnt go near something even with a barge pole. Usually in the context of a repulsive humanoid (not that I am saying Jestah is repulsive of course) heh

Very funny vog, now put the 11ft pole down too.

-Jestah

11ft Pole he should play Basketball

Ha! Have you ever watched this guys page as it loads...no? Let his page load, the drag a selection over the aparently 'blank' area in the top of the site, you'll find this text:

quote:

---

::::::::::FLASH AND GRAPHIC DESIGN FOR WEB AND PRINT MEDIA:::::::::::: ::::::::::::::::::::::::::SHOW US RESPECT::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :::::::::::::::CREATE YOUR OWN SHIT,STEALING AIN'T COOL::::::::::::::: :::::. :::::: :: :::::: :::::: :: :: :: ::: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: ::: :::: :: :: :::::: :: :: :: ::: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: ::: :: :: :: :: :: :::: ::::: :::::: :::::: :: :: :: :: :: ..:: Copyright © 2001-2002 John Wycoco. All Rights Reserved ::..

---

I hate fucking hypocrites.



Koan 63:
Those who Believe
Can
Those who Try
Do
Those who Love
Live