Preserved Topic: a poem........what do u think. (Page 1 of 1)

well this might open a discussion but here's a poem i posted in deviant art and got some good stats on it:

A wise man once said
"I think, therefore I am"

But how do we know we are what we are?
How do we differentiate the close from the far?
Who are we to determine how we came to be?
What properties of life confirm what we see?
What if everything we thought was real, was a dream?
And everything we thought was a dream, came to be?
How can we prove we exist with no proof?
Who can we ask to affirm the real truth?

Was everything I thought
Everything I am thinking
and everything I will think
be a waste of time?

Will everything I did
Everything I am doing
and everything I will do
matter in life?

Everytime I laughed?
Every time I cried?
Everytime I hoped?
Everytime my hope died?
Everytime I loved?
Everytime I hated?

Life is a pardadox
We don't know who we are
So we blame it on thought
What we think is how it seems

To pass from Dream to Reality only to realize that Reality is a Dream.

So we let them see what is not there, but they cross the barrier that is everywhere. The barrier they see but do not touch. The barrier that breaks down into dust...

I like reviewing poems, but first give me a harshness scale, from 1 ("Hey, what a great poem! Some of the words even rhyme!") to 10 ("Nice try, but here's what John Keats would have done.") Don't go over 5 if you're self-conscious.

[This message has been edited by Perfect Thunder (edited 01-23-2002).]

to be honest.... it sounds hollow

...k.. well does anyone know who said that quote? and his philosophieS? as well as the many other phenomenologists/ontologists? it might make more sense that way? i ddin't intentionally mean to rhyme it but thats what happened.

its a poem that questions our own existence. I guess you'd have to read up on all those philosophers to get a grasp of what i mean (although it's not hard to see what i'm trying to get anyway)

So we let them see what is not there, but they cross the barrier that is everywhere. The barrier they see but do not touch. The barrier that breaks down into dust...

Rene Descartes. cogito ergo sum.

Now, like perfect thunder said, just give me a number for the harshness scale and I'll tell you what I think.

quote:

---

All that we see or seem is but a dream with in a dream
-Edgar Allen Poe

---

Oh poetry!

I love poetry.... You've inspired me!

I think I'll start a "Favorite Short Poems" thread

edit: you mention deviant art... deviantart.com?


[This message has been edited by InSiDeR (edited 01-23-2002).]

huh u want me to rate my own work? i will not. that's egotistical and may play part in your own criticism of it.

yes i do like edar allan poe. i like his poems:

a dream
a dream within a dream
alone

etc etc

So we let them see what is not there, but they cross the barrier that is everywhere. The barrier they see but do not touch. The barrier that breaks down into dust...

::EDIT::

yes it is www.deviantart.com

if u meant, i'll give u the names for a scale well here:

1 (wtf are you smoking)
10 (What feelings were brought up? if any?) im not those poets that just try to rhyme, it was just coincidence taht some of it did. i mostly write to portray an emotion or thought.

[This message has been edited by ReMiXx (edited 01-23-2002).]

What we meant was how harsh of a criticism you wanted. A superficial "gee that's nice" (level 1), or an actual literary critique (level 10). We didn't ask you to rate your own poem. Besides which, rating creative works is a bit ridiculous anyway.

Yeah, trust me, I know where you're coming from philosophically -- it's the old solipsism vs. empiricism argument. And I know exactly what I think of it as a poem. I'm just asking how tough of a review you'd like. My default level is "let it rip, if I'm weak, tell me." But not everyone is like that. You haven't been around much yet, I don't really know what your personality is like, you know?

even better so you judge it as a first glance. if you wish to debate any section of the poem or any thoughts that arise, i'd gladly do so.

as for rating.

say whatever comes to mind. i take criticism very wll (that is criticism that is justified) because:

thought + justification = belief




So we let them see what is not there, but they cross the barrier that is everywhere. The barrier they see but do not touch. The barrier that breaks down into dust...

Okay, I think it sounds a bit hollow myself. It explores the weaknesses of our empirical senses and goes along the lines of Descartes philosophies but then it stops before any type of conclusion or resolution. Okay, so our senses deceive. What we may perceive to be reality may not be real at all. After all of that, I'm left with a feeling of "so what"? It doesn't give me a reason to care whether or not the material world is real, and relies on the concept to carry the poem itself.

It seems a bit shallow in that it doesn't leave the reader with anything. It attempts to provoke some emotion from the reader through shock value and ambiguity alone.

However, the flow is definitely there and symantically it works, but it's a bit of all show no substance.

The concepts it tries to explore are fascinating and extremely interesting themselves but the poem doesn't bring that out nor does it try to explore new horizons within those concepts.

thank you silence, you said exactly what i wanted to hear.

i was trying to show emptiness. that we have all these unanswered questions that it may overcome us and we just say "so what?" as if it doesn't mean much. but if one was to think and go into a trance over this type of information (as did i), sooner or later you get this tingly sense that just slaps you across the face and makes you realize exactly what the poem is trying to convey.. only 2 other people have understood what i have just explained and they have read about what i am speakin of.

anybody else?

this poem isn't meant to convery feeling as much as thought about why things are instead of just accepting things as they are. (a sort of semiotic conditioning)

So we let them see what is not there, but they cross the barrier that is everywhere. The barrier they see but do not touch. The barrier that breaks down into dust...

Remixx -

I don't believe anyone is having any trouble at all understanding what your poem is trying to say, or what it's background and underlying philosophy is.

This is not a complicated issue, nor is it a very origianl one.

That's really the problem here. It's very dull and very uninspiring (in regard to thought and/or emotion), and very unoriginal. It more or less regurgitates other people's statements and thoughts in a 'dumbed down' manner.

I may be wrong, but I believe that is what other people so far have meant by 'hollow' - not that you are conveying a feeling of emptiness, but that there is little or nothing behind you words.

Just my opinion, of course.

ic.

So we let them see what is not there, but they cross the barrier that is everywhere. The barrier they see but do not touch. The barrier that breaks down into dust...

Yeah, what DL said...

Also, you said only a few people 'get it', which points out another flaw in the poem. This implies that it was written to evoke a very specific response. It tries to push certain buttons to get certain emotions and that insults the intelligence of the reader. A poem shouldn't tell you how to feel, it should lay out things that let you decide how you feel about it.

I hope I'm explaining things properly. If you're in college, take an advanced writing class and you'll see what I'm talking about, 400 level and above. And leave you're pride at the door. I had all my preconceived notions about my abilities ripped to shreds by one of the best professors I've ever had. Great stuff.

?
this empty heart is my home
with no bed to call it's own
meaningless thoughts fill my head
are they illusions that i'm not dead?
dreamless is only a state of sleep
shallow comes before deep
tic-toc tick-toc
knock knock
who's there?
the barometer rises and falls
what are these walls i keep running into?
i would be free of this asylum
if only i could stop thinking of what could have been
or, what could be
maybe i could see the meaning of all this madness
free? did you say free?
the whirling never stops even when i'm dreamless
timeless sleep keeps zipping up and up and up
my cup is filled with half full
or is it half empty
with room to grow?
sometimes i wonder
?

oh, no remix
you were the one who is missing the point, when one says hollow it means the content, not the form.
i know the form rather well, if you must know.
you can't grasp thought
you dont need to understand to think.

Hmm, I'm a bit late with this, and now everyone has said what I was going to say about the lack of resolution to the philosophical question. Let me add that from a lyrical/emotional perspective, it's not especially evocative -- without sense imagery or emotional appeals (other than general angst), the verse falls flat. A rework of the poem might include a more complex formulation of the existential issue, using the time-honored devices of metaphor, simile, synecdoche, and what have you. Poetry should be poetic, if you'll excuse the tautology: it should be beautiful and intriguing in a way that transcends the actual message. Whether that beauty exists in the words (as in the 19th-century masters) or in the mind of the reader (as in imagism or haiku), poetry should be elevated, a form of expression more powerful and condensed than prose. Your poem reaches for that, but falls a few yards short. The only solution is practice. My advice: study the works of the masters, and emulate them. Learning to write in the styles of other poets will help you develop your own style. My personal muse in that area was T.S. Eliot, with a strong smattering of Frost, Tennyson, Keats, and Shelley.

<edit> By the way, I look forward to our PSPong match, but I'm booked for the weekend. Expect a serve Monday, or Sunday if I'm lucky. Will that be okay? </edit>

[This message has been edited by Perfect Thunder (edited 01-27-2002).]