Preserved Topic: Serious problem..

I wan to create an image with the Coated Pantone color 297 but when I save it as .tif and import it into
PageMaker and compares it with the Pantone color 297 created in Pagemaker theese two is different from
each other. Te colors simply doesn't match!!

And this is offcourse not god at all when you're dealing with graphics for print and need accuracy and
correct colors. Even when I print there are differences between the two..

Is there a solution to this anoying problem or is it an unsolveable problem??

Are you certain that you're using the exact same Pantones? There's Coated, Uncoated, Process, etc.

Frustrating as hell isn't it? Try getting colors in a PS document to match up with frickin MS Word. I nearly drove to Seattle and strangled Bill Gates.

Did you save the image in CMYK mode? I repeated your steps and the colors (both CMYK mode) show up completely different in Pagemaker on the monitor, but in the printed version they are exactly the same.

Maybe someone around here has some knowledge about Colour Management Systems?

I'v just tried it again in PageMaker. Creating one box filled with the Coated Pantone 293 and three boxes containg
blue images from photoshop where I filled using that 293 coated color too in CMYK-mode.

Both on screen and in the paper after printing there are differences..
I have heard of others experiencing this problem too some years ago so perhaps it is
an old bug in photoshop? ..Since the color I specify in PageMaker matches the color I need which I have
on other printed stuff like a logo etc..

Pfff... No idea. I'm not good in printing issues. But maybe someone in the 'Printed Graphics' forum knows some more.

I'm not much of a PageMaker expert, but 2 thoughts - Are you treating the Pantone color as a process color in one app and a spot color in the other? That could cause some shift.
2) I read that you can run into color problems between PS and PM over the handeling of Pantone names. In General Controls in PS there is apparently one setting called "use short Pantone names". You are supposed to make sure that is enabled. Seems that if Photoshop doesn't call the color by the exact name Pagemaker expects, PM treats it as a different color. and PM uses short Pantone names.

At least it did when the book was written.

Hope that solves it.

I believe Steve is right about photoshop treating the color as a cmyk simulation and pagemaker treating it as a pantone spot color. You can do calibration between the two to get better color (I'm on a mac and use color sync).
Or you can add a spot color channel in photoshop, but I believe saving it as a tif will reduce the spot channel back into cmyk. Can you place the psd file in pagemaker? (I know you can with indesign)

Me Again?

quote:

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Are you treating the Pantone color as a process color in one app and a spot color in the other?

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hey steve: confused - does process color=spot color? Because I thought that a process color was a spot color, as in a specific ink that is specified vs. a cmyk "blended" color? Help!

OK - now back to the topic - Flyer are you using a spot color, or do you need to match the color? If you need to use a spot color, you are going to have to export as a photoshop EPS, not a tiff. This problem came up at work for us recently, we needed to use a specific type of ink and use it as a duotone in one portion of the project, and in others, as a solid fill. Using quark we were able to specify the areas of solid fill, but the duotone was a problem, because my co-worker exported it as a CMYK tiff. What we did was take the CMYK "duotone" image and converted to greyscale, then selected the greyscale channel, inverted the selection, and created a new channel, converted new channel to a spot channel. Then we selected the opacity - or "strength" as I like to think, of the spot channel ink, and saved as an EPS - something about DCS level 2 and saving channels I think in the save as dialog box - and then placed the image into Quark. Of course, I don't know if that was the proper solution, as the project was scrapped shortly after for other reasons! I don't have PS on right now, but we had a book, and then we checked the help files, look under "spot color", because this is all from memory and I have a bad one!

I suppose that you could do the same thing with a monotone image - insted of two channels, you could have a blank channnel and then your selection on the spot channel with your ink specified. Please let me know if this works for you! Also I have noticed that when I bring in an eps/tiff into Quark that the preview image is always shifted vs. the Quark created color - as in if I create a box with c:20 m:50 y:10 k:0 in PS and then lay it on top of a filled selection in Quark with the same CMYK color, there will be an obvious difference in the preview, but when it prints, there is no difference. I think that has to do with the tiff preview image.

I know that I have been talking about Quark and not pagemaker, but I think that the principles are the same!

Good Luck!

quote:

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does process color=spot color? Because I thought that a process color was a spot color, as in a specific ink that is specified vs. a cmyk "blended" color? Help!

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Unless I'm out to lunch on the terminology (always a distinct possibility) a "process color" is called that because it is created by a blend of the four basic process inks: C, M, Y and good old K. Spot colors are inks that are mixed to a recipe provided by some company like Pantone BEFORE they are put on press, and are not blended with other colors. When you do a 2 color job and specify a Pantone color, the pressman mixes it according to the recipe and that's what hits the paper. A spot plate could also lay down a clear or a matte varnish for a special effect, or a flourescent ink or a metallic ....

Anyhow, that's my understanding of the difference. So there are Pantone process colors which are created by a blend of inks and as such are subject to fluctuation dune to, well, that blending, dot gain, who know what else. And there are alos Pantone spot colors which are mixed by formula. The Spot colors are less apt to be affected by the mix of inks, and therefore lots of times corporate logos (where an absolute color match is critical) are defined as spot colors. Think of Kodak Yellow or Coke Cola Red. But that means the expense of a 5th plate if it's going with a 4 color job. And a 6th plate if you want varnishes ... heee heee. Nobody said this was simple did they jedart??

This is the problem when dealing with pantone or other spot color swatchs. We Switched to the Trumatch process color guides or Pantone Process guides for all color referances unless Spot inks are used.

Unless you are using Spot colors, Spot/Pantone Inks and outputing separated films or plates. Pantone colors mean nothing other then the name. You could create a logo in Illustrator as PMS 158 (red) and set display color sliders to a greenish color as long as the color name remains PMS 185, and it was defined as a spot color it will print on the PMS 185 Plate or film if seperated. Depending on the printer or RIP it would print green if proofed on a composite output device.

Unless you need to output spot color plates follow Litiss advice you may need to proof separations to check the poper colors are on the proper plates.

Otherwise work in CYMK. Read the CYMK values of the pantone color in Photoshop. In Pagemaker and create a new color or select the Matching Pantone swatch. Double click on the swatch and switch the color from Spot to Process checking the values in the CYMK dialog boxes.

This should work, It did for me when I tried it. If it did not work something is wrong with your color manangment settings. I would turn off embeded profiles for CYMK work unless told to do so. Most printers I have worked with don't profiles for CYMK tiff's and EPS's.

I just noticed that the is a CMS item in Pagemakers 7, color swatch dialog, PMS is set to none, I don't know what effect this would have if you images had embeded profiles and CMS was turned on. I would guess you may need to turn the CMS on for the Pantone color. Time to pull out the old manuals.

jstuartj

Thanks Steve! argggg... just when I think that I am getting this stuff sorta figured out, I realize that I need to hit the books or something!

flyer,

You also might want to try the following method as well. I haven't been in a Pagemaker environment for acouple of years but I remmeber this method working. 1. In the pagemaker document make sure the Pantone you want is not in any items on the page. 2. Erase it from the color palette. 3. Import the image from photoshop (eps). 4. This should have imported the PMS color with correct naming and specs into Pagemaker. 5. Now apply that PMS to your objects in Pagemaker. Also note that if you are printing to an RGB printer. It will look different than if you printed to a cmyk printer. hope this helps you.

Welcome, manyon.

Excellent first post. you`ve been lurking, haven`t you ?

Welcome Welcome! We make home for you in this big kettle... yah... step inside... dont mind the flames. hehehehe...

. . .

welcome manyon.. hmm, think i've an extra black pill in my pocket .. yep, here you go.. someone will be along shortly to with a jacket for you